You can set your watch by it. On Saturday, when discussing the reaction to Celtic’s goal against Hearts, I wrote, “Celtic will face the consequences of Thursday’s decision.” And how. They faced a litany of incorrectly flagged offsides at Tannadice yesterday. The appropriately named Calum Butcher’s studs-first assault on David Turnbull did not received the red card it clearly deserved. Referees have clearly been cowed by the coordinated reaction since Thursday evening.
Despite one over-eager pundit on Sky Sports, TV pictures of the goal on Thursday were inconclusive. Celtic were denied a good goal when they met Hearts earlier in the season in a game they would go on to lose. Clearly wrong decisions happen every week, commonly at some grounds.
However, the outrage over this particular incident tells you all you need to know about how Scotland works. The assistant referee who judged the goal good has had his religion and heritage explored online, the media have had a feeding frenzy and SFA Head of Referee Operations (HoRO), Crawford Allan, chose to depart from protocol to say that in his opinion, Celtic were advantaged.
Allan’s intervention in this incident is without precedent. He was not running the line, nor on the Review Panel, therefore he is not competent to comment on the incident. When asked, a passive response is all that he is entitled to give.
Instead, he ramped up the pressure on his officials when refereeing Celtic, permitting the officiating we witnessed at Tannadice yesterday. Perceived injustice rattling about a media echo chamber that drew in the SFA HoRO created a false impression that Celtic unfairly benefit from referee mistakes.
Crawford Allan’s job is not to re-referee Celtic games. His position gives him a responsibility to comment on specifics with propriety. I have no prior beef with him, he may otherwise be an excellent HoRO, but you knew, and I knew, there would be severe consequences for Celtic for some in the media deciding they ‘got away with one’. He should have known the result of stepping outside this remit to pour some petrol on the flames.
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LAMBERT14 on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 1:42 PM
Paul67
Why make comment then ignore the solution to the problem?
Whats the solution to the problem?
THE BATTERED BUNNET on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 12:48 PM
Good to see you on here, T.
Seeing transfer rumours about Maeda, hatate and so on. Got me thinking – do we have any goalkeepers in mind should Barkas be loaned out or even if he isn’t? Not the priority it was but its still a position I’d like to see cover in.
Some happy stats for you –
Goals scored – Celtic & sevco currently joint lead the chart with 36 each
Goals conceded – Celtic lead with 10, sevco 2nd with 14
Clean sheets – Celtic lead with 8, followed by Dundee Utd with 7, sevco in 4th with 5
Possession (home) – Celtic lead with 72.9%, sevco 2nd with 63.7%
Possession (away) – Celtic lead with 70.7%, sevco 2nd with 64.6%
Shots – Celtic lead with 330, sevco 2nd with 315
Shots on target – sevco lead with 110, Celtic 2nd with 108
Fouls conceded – Celtic 8th with 190, sevco 11th with 175
Yellow cards – Celtic 12th with 17, sevco 11th with 25
Red cards – both bottom with zero
Very little in it on the analysis of any one individual stat, but the general consensus across the body of data paints a convincing argument for the (slightly but consistently) dominant team.
It’ll be no surprise to some that the “fouls conceded” stat is the outlier. Other than “clean sheets” it’s the only stat where there are teams separating the two, plus the positioning (Celtic foul more) is diametrically opposed to all other data.
LAMBERT14 @ 1:43 PM,
Thought BR was great at sticking it to the SFA and their officials…
https://www.thenational.scot/sport/17366805.go-pro-celtic-manager-brendan-rodgers-tells-referee-summit-officials-turn-full-time-cut-mistakes/
“Referees going full-time is a big one for me,” he said. “Where the money comes from I don’t know, but for me it is one of the areas I would look at, them being professional.
“If you are refereeing a game at the weekend – and I think they do their best – then you come together on a Monday because it is your job. Then you can analyse and you can look at areas where you were really good in the game, areas where you could be better.
“Then you are mentored in that situation and can exchange ideas with other referees and then that preparation will give you confidence. When you go into your next games that confidence makes you better. You are better prepared then to deal with pressure and pressurised situations.
“They are not only officiating here. They are asked to go into European games with high stakes and high pressure. I respect some of the guys have good jobs, but I do think there is a need for that and there is also a need to protect players.
“If you have refereed a game at the weekend and you have got to get to your work on a Monday and focus on your job ‘til 5pm or 3pm or whenever it is, then your full concentration isn’t on the (refereeing) job.
“These guys are going into high pressure situations and asked to deal with that type of pressure. If you are prepared and working hard at your game then the more you put into it then it gives you confidence. It doesn’t guarantee anything, but you should succeed at a better level.”
Rodgers also asked for clarity about the disciplinary process that prevented SFA compliance officer Clare Whyte from issuing a notice of complaint against Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos after a league game against Celtic at Ibrox last month despite three separate incidents being flagged up.
“You can be in a game and watching it, but when you go back and analyse it, it’s never as bad, or as good, as you think at the time,” he said.
“Sometimes these referees are in the game and make their report, but when they come away after a couple of days and analyse it, things may look different. But under the current structure here, they can’t change it. It’s about looking at the whole process really.
“I just think there’s some really poor decisions. It’s been consistent. It’s maybe highlighted more now a bit, but it’s about trying to ensure the game doesn’t become reckless.
“I’ve been saying it since I came here, when Kieran Tierney suffered a bad tackle (in a game against Motherwell in 2017). The safety of players is the main thing.
“We all make mistakes, referees, managers, players, every one of us. You have to be able to make mistakes but it’s about not making as many of them. It’s important to have a structure that supports referees.
“It’s about getting the right decisions for the greater good of the game, other than just protecting referees. It’s a very difficult job, we all recognise that, but it’s about getting consistency. They just need a bit of help, but it’s also about how they can help themselves. Having that professional attitude on a day to day basis would help them improve.”
Asked about the meeting at the Rangers’ pre-match press conference yesterday, Rangers manager Gerrard said: “I am looking forward to hearing what the SFA have to say, what is on the agenda and what comes out of that. I’m all for these type of meetings.”
Telling them they’re amateurs and not a thing they can do about it…
We need to get smarter.
With forty million and a real levelling of the old firm partnership, don’t think anything is going to happen this season.
Hail Hail
I’m tending towards the outlook that Thursdays euro game is a chance to experiment, rest some legs and utilise the squad.
Have seen others suggest this, so I’m clearly Kate to the party.
On refs, a simple statement that Celtic seeking clarification regarding the remit of the master ref and surprise over seeming inconsistency of his involvement thus far.
*changes moniker to Auntie Kate
Surely the Board can’t / won’t continue to remain silent – I thought that THEY classed themselves as “The Custodians” of our club – so prove it !
Well passed the point of showing that they DO care…..
They have an opportunity to repair some of the damage that THEY created last season and there should have been a statement issued this morning…..
Our Board continues to fail all of us – spineless and complicit ; appreciate that the solution is in the hands of the real fans however I also acknowledge that the potential action involved will damage ourselves……
Surely there must be a canary in the coal mine that can / will instigate some sense of comradely with the wider fan base……
I’m no psychic , but as soon as Butcher came on and the commentator said he was just back from a red card 2 match ban , I said to my son that I knew exactly why he had been brought on . Sure enough ….
Pity the SFA wouldn’t bring back the sine die ban for players like this . Power of St Mirren is another one although there are plenty more .
There is no place for them in football
CELTIC40ME on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 1:56 PM
LAMBERT14 on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 1:42 PM
Paul67
Why make comment then ignore the solution to the problem?
Whats the solution to the problem?
————————————————————————
The solution was put on a plate for us in 2012 when rangers died.
Clubs relied on Celtic for help to survive, when Lawwell had to go to Sky to recue the deal.
That was when the bargaining chip on referees should have been introduced, Lawwell saving the tv deal in exchange for refereeing reform, so that no ref takes part in a match for the club they support.
Maybe someone on the board did propose it and gave the report to Lawwell but he shoved it in the bin beside Auldheid’s smoking gun and the CVs of other managers.
The sevco board put pressure on the the SPFL and SFA by going public.
If the club want to get anywhere they could at least do the same.
Uncle Jimmy – good conversation starter for a Monday there- who should play on Thursday?
For me practically any first team squad player who gaunt had 90 minutes in a while should get a run. Bain and Scales spring to mind. Ajeti, Montgomery at left wing. Ababa. Maybe the guys from Sheffield. Anyone really, so long as the first picks for Sunday get arrest and Ange can have a week to work with the team on general formations, tactics etc as opposed to prepping for a euro game and having to focus on recovery for Sunday.
I’ll be peeved if we do anything different.
RobertTressell – While in danger falling into the cliché of rating the last goalkeeper to play against Celtic, I’ve often admired the work of Ben Seigrist at Dundee Utd. Having said that I’ve only watched him in games against Celtic, so maybe the cliché holds.
I think there was some speculation around this move last summer, and Seigrist was open to it. He’d make a great backup for Hart, however he’s 29 and spent nearly all his career before Dundee Utd on some team’s bench, perhaps at this stage of his career he’d rather play regularly.
SonsofErin – he was also outstanding against us at CP. Makes big saves. Barks at his defence and shows a bit of character. Not the worst shout. But maybe there are some kick ass JLeague or Korean keepers out there!!
Keeping the SPL onside — signing a couple of SPL standouts from the season before would be a good plan to bulk up the squad with known quantities and helping to keep it real in games against us.
WF is obviously the argument against it but if correctly handled it would work.
One of the issues this season was the complete lack of preparation and planning regarding local players meaning we were not at the SPL races.
We are not that good that we can completely dismiss the SPL as a recruiting forum.
The GK situation is one where we would improve the squad if we looked local.
With SPL giving — having to give — a lot of games to teenagers there is quite a bit of talent on show.
SPL greed is an issue but it can be overcome.
Struggling to work the “pinch” into the plan after Thursday night.
Long way back for me even if he would be a good addition to the squad.
LAMBERT14 on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 2:10 PM
We’re in 2021 not 2012. We need a solution today for today’s problems
“The sevco board put pressure on the the SPFL and SFA by going public.
If the club want to get anywhere they could at least do the same.”
Sorry, I’m struggling with the logic of that. A biased insitution is going to react in completely different ways to pressure from the club its biased in favour of to a club that is biased against
you’d have to be borderline crazy to expect them to react in the same way to us as to them.
SONSOFERIN @ 2:00
——
Very interesting & informative reading – thanks for taking the time. All very encouraging and let’s hope it leads to the right outcome.
However all the stats in the world, all the complaining that Ibrox are not playing fair financially, or, that the refs are out to stymie us, means nothing if we don’t do the real business on the park – that means turning those superior stats into winning more games than them. At this juncture we are in with a chance, I put it no higher than that. I will reconsider at the end of December, and then more assuredly, at the end of January.
There is some guarded opTIMism, but no more than that after last season’s abject surrender.
celtic40me- we should stick up for the Club and the support, you will get your wish,this bunch of cowards on the Board, sit behind their prawn sandwiches and champagne and CGAF about what happens round about us,at least the Kellys and the Whites wouldn’t bend over at every turn.
Paul69’s article is worthless if it doesn’t call on the Celtic board to stand up for our club.
If an official isn’t certain about an offside decision what are they supposed to do under the laws of the game, allow a resulting goal or award a free kick for offside?
Robert @ 2:11
Exactly my thoughts.
Yesterday showed me we have some strength in depth. There are perhaps 4 or 5 extra players who can perform.
Makes sense to give them a run out Thursday.
I’d be reluctant to be too dramatic as a heavy defeat could demotivate both the peripheral players and the club.
Makes sense
ERNIE LYNCH on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 3:09 PM
I don`t know.
My instinctive feeling is that he should, in the scenario you offer, award the goal.
In Scotland , of course, it is much easier. Simply check the colour of the potential benficiary`s shirt.
An official should not make a decision unless they are certain, so if we played by the laws then it should be a goal
In Scotland however…
We must hold the Scottish , if not the world record , for the number of red cards issued retrospectively to our opponents , which should have been issued at the time of the offence .
If I was a cynic , I might think the officials were trying to ensure that we didn’t gain an advantage from playing against 10 men.
CELTIC40ME on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 2:30 PM
LAMBERT14 on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 2:10 PM
We’re in 2021 not 2012. We need a solution today for today’s problems
“The sevco board put pressure on the the SPFL and SFA by going public.
If the club want to get anywhere they could at least do the same.”
Sorry, I’m struggling with the logic of that. A biased insitution is going to react in completely different ways to pressure from the club its biased in favour of to a club that is biased against
you’d have to be borderline crazy to expect them to react in the same way to us as to them.
—————————-
You are probably correct in that complaining will change nothing.
You said we need a solution for today’s problems, however the same problems were their before 2012, only the names of the refs have changed.
My main point is that we had our golden chance 9 years ago for total change and we done nothing.
So we are stuck with it, thanks to the board.
Yet the very same people who done zilch have been praised by the P67 and a few others on here.
And yet we call the huns naive
Kevin McKenna. 💥
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF6sh8fXwAkocrL?format=png&name=small
Glen
An alternative view is that sevco were awarded the most retrospective reds. I think at least one v Aberdeen. I’m thinking somewhere around 5 in total?
Oddly, I don’t remember the refs chief offering his opinion at the time.
Lyon ban the hun hordes on Thursday….oh my aching sides…
its oh so quiet , c’mon directors grow a pair.
Follow Fol…………………..oh wait?
Clamped CSC
“!!BADA BING!! on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 4:16 PM
Lyon ban the hun hordes on Thursday….oh my aching sides…”
Is that a Covid issue ( or are they banned on humanitarian grounds :-)) ) ?
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 6TH DECEMBER 2021 4:22 PM
:-)
The Festival of Lights (French: Fête des lumières) in Lyon, France, is a popular event that originally aimed at expressing gratitude toward Mary, mother of Jesus around December 8 of each year.[2] This unique Lyonnaise tradition dictates that every house place candles along the outsides of all the windows to produce a spectacular effect throughout the streets. The festival includes other activities based on light and usually lasts four days, with the peak of activity occurring on the 8th. The two main focal points of activity are typically the Basilica of Fourvière which is lit up in different colours, and the Place des Terreaux, which hosts a different light show each year.
@wiki
Celtic Fans have been telling the board for years about referees,SFA about the unfair treatment our teams over the seasons or yrs ,yet they just sat on there hands and say nothing,that’s not on anymore,big changes at board level younger men and woman also if they were Celtic Supporters would be all the better .
They are looking at Butcher’s tackle on Turnbull.
That tackle was pure evil, one of the worst I’ve seen in years,
Anything less than a 3 match ban would be a disgrace,
In my opinion tackles like that should end up in Court.
HS- a beautiful city like Lyon, should never be subjected to the neanderthal hun hordes, hope that your brother is on the mend.
HS
Highly recommend Lyon and the Basilica of Notre-Dame de Fourvière great history, and city.
Dan Orlowitz on Celtic’s transfer window interests.
https://twitter.com/AnthonyRJoseph/status/1467868934292582409?s=20
Bada and Bourne
I have been to Lyon and agree with your positive assessment of the place. For me, there was a great feel about the place.
I am glad Lyon are banning the Sevcoites. Their presence in such a lovely, majestic place would offer an example of incongruity at its most extreme.
Bada!
Thanks for the concern re my brother. He seems to be doing well, thanks.