It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge Aberdeen fans’ banner on Saturday in response to their chairman, Stewart Milne’s suggestion that fans are damaging our game with talking about the consequences of clubs being found to be cheating.
I know some people learned the lessons of 2012 but others appear to have acquired amnesia. Back in 2012 only one SPL club was of the view that Rangers should not be allowed to phoenix and gain entry to top flight football. After a considerable campaign by fans, all others, apart from Rangers themselves, and Kilmarnock, decided it would be better if existing rules were allowed to stand on the matter.
Milne was off his head making his comments. The only way to possibly pull a stroke like this would be to keep quiet about it, even then I doubt it would be achievable. Making his feelings known was only going to engage Aberdeen supporters, who will have the ultimate view on what the club do.
The issue remains in the long grass until the Supreme Court have concluded their business, but what we said in October remains valid: if Celtic stand alone, the matter will not be looked at again, if other clubs are on-board, it will be examined appropriately. It is for fans of Aberdeen, United, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell and make their feelings known.
The Herald’s piece this morning on Newco being “handed a place in the Premiership next summer as a result of some hastily-arranged league reconstruction” was remarkable. It was absurd but also worthy of respect. “NOBODY at Rangers (sic.)” wants this, but as other clubs need for Newco’s promotion is so great, apparently this is not really implausible.
Promote them, not because they are in need, because other clubs need them.
The starting position on league reconstruction is notable. For years only Celtic and Rangers blocked the SPL from being expanded. The majority of top flight clubs live in fear of (and experienced) relegation. They want a less competitive middle to the league. When the SPFL was formed a temporary moratorium of league reconstruction was agreed. This moratorium is due to expire shortly, a window for change is about to open up.
Tracking underneath all of these debates are the financial fundamentals. Newco is not financially viable. They are not viable in the Championship and although Premiership football would give them a few millions more, it would not change the fundamentals.
The circa £17m it takes to run a club at Ibrox before you employ football staff leaves little money for football given their anticipated top-flight income. It would take years and many tens of millions of dead investment to change this, as well as Mike Ashley raising the white flag.
These facts have not been grasped yet as the consequences of the hoped for investment of tens of millions not appearing are not being considered. Dave King might invest £30m-£50m, so with a fair wind everything might be OK. On the other hand, I think even £50m is tight, and I don’t see anything like that money heading to Ibrox.
The consequences of what happened in 2012, even on these pages, have yet to be realised. The old business model is finished, it’s not coming back.
Many thanks to everyone who contributed to the Foundation Christmas Appeal bucket collection on Saturday. You see people at their very best on these occasions. If you want to know how your money will be spent have a read here.
Very last shout from CQN Bookstore for Christmas delivery, if you’re after 16:00, it’ll be after the festives’ before you get your book or DVD.
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P67-getting a bit ahead of yourself,CFC have said and done nothing.Sitting back,like the’ Global Giant ‘we are ,so says the CEO.Hiding behind giants like Raith Rovers and Dundee Utd.
You know the game is a cluster f*** up when there is concerted attempts to raise a publicity campaign that the fans will decide upon whether the games bodies follows its own statutes in word and in spirit.
HH
Martin O’Neill was just lucky when he was manager of Celtic because Henrik Larsson was at the club during his tenure.
How lucky was John Stein? Jinky, the greatest ever Celt playing for the club – that’s why Stein reigned supreme,not because he was a great manager.
I read it here.
Absurdity.
HH.
Aw Naw
I posted a long tweet from Barcabhoy the other day saying two things
1. The Celtic Board and PL were raging at SDM and RFC for the pressure they were put under by Celtic supporters for not competing financially.
2. Security of staff was a concern in being too open about it.
I don’t recall anyone commenting on the former but quite a few on the latter.
Now if the former were true and I know that as a Celtic supporter exactly how we were diddled and how angry I am about it then if what Barca says is true (and I’ve heard it from another source DD was raging) how does the idea Celtic are angry fit in with your world view that all they want is TRFC in the top tier?
Given the financial case without TRFC makes more sense than the one with and the strength of feeling inside Celtic posted, how can you square that with your opinion (unless you have evidence to back it) that Celtic actively want and will be happy to have TRFC as opponents?
I can come up with a much more plausible alternative scenario which I posted in response to Tricoloured Ribbon (I think) the other night when things got fraught.
That scenario is that Celtic feared other clubs would go to the wall if the game lost the income RFC brought to it and acted to keep the league alive and not RFC.
I may have this wrong but in renegotiating the TV deal did Celtic not give up some of their share to provide others with more?
If my memory is correct then it tells me that Celtic acted in the best interests of Celtic by making sure they had enough opponents to play against.
I find that much more persuasive than the idea fellow Celtic supporters with responsibilities we don’t have, who were shafted and know they were and took the brunt of it, are actively working towards the reviving a dead club for the extra income that might come in if the number returning as a result exceeds the number giving up as a result.
That is my opinion based on accepting Barca ‘s post and the interdependent nature of the game.
The other side of the story..
http://readceltic.com/2015/12/21/win-lose-draw-deila-must-stay/
16 roads
Luck is all we need, Ronny must be due some soon, that cheat MacLean cost Ronny the “chance” of back to back trebles, if CQN was about during Mr Steins reign there would have been plenty said about him as well, it’s the way this blog and others work…..some decisions the manager makes confuses all of us but am afraid a title winning manager does for me, keep winning the prizes, maybe in 30yrs team our grandchildren will be slagging us on here for not backing Ronny, mine won’t as I still do
Agreed! Perhaps these groups have been waiting for the club to take the lead before doing just that. The bunnet wouldn’t have been shy in making our stance clear. Perhaps this time around, it may be up to the fan groups to push PL & Co into action.
Awe Naw-spot on,if it wasn’t for the fan uprising at Aberdeen and Dundee Utd ,along with the fearless Turnbull Hutton,the Huns would have stayed in the top league.
How mad is this place when we get beat, would remind you another clubs supporters at times. Got to laugh at the comments from people who profess to know about football saying throwing high balls into the box at a 6 foot plus striker when we needed a goal was stupid.
Anyone remember us doing the same with Paul Elliot, Alan Stubbs or more recently under Lennon with VVD? Yes these stupid tactics have been used in the past by some of our greatest managers, I dare say even Jock used this tactic once or twice when we were needing a goal.
But hey the media(who none of you read or listen to) want us to run Ronny out of town as according to them and some internet bampots Celtic are in crisis while still in 2 domestic cups and top of the table with games in hand. You really couldn’t make it up at times.
Normally when league reconstruction is discussed, several options are spoken about.
This time it seems only a 16 team top league is an option.
Any reason for that?
Any reason why – say – a 14 team top league is never mentioned?
Answers on the back of an administration points deduction.
Celtic are angry fit in with your world view that all they want is TRFC in the top tier?
Of course they were angry , they should have been crunching the numbers and realizing what was happening a long time ago. They should have been on top of it. They also seem very keen to disassociate SDM with RFC and the SFA why ?
Celtic actively want and will be happy to have TRFC as opponents?
The speed with which they jettisoned the kids this season if Sevco were to come up
The hastily rearranged TV deal which benefited everyone except Celtic negotiated by PL.
That scenario is that Celtic feared other clubs would go to the wall if the game lost the income RFC brought to it and acted to keep the league alive and not RFC.
Garbage at no time did they speak out about it.
You belief is right they think that damaging Sevco will damage themselves. Hence their hands off attitude within the major committee`s when it comes to dealing with Sevco and Rangers and when they were prepared to send even more money Sevco´s way. They also must have agreed not to look to strip titles as part of the 5WA which had our name on it.
No other reason for our lack of transparency.
HH
HH
In `normal` life, the `let`s move on ` scenario is usually because two people have behaved badly towards one another but decide that life would be better if they both accepted they had each been in the wrong and so agree to move on. That is probably an acceptable outcome. What we have, though, is only one `person` has behaved badly and now `he` is trying to sound like a forgiving person by telling us all `he` is willing to move on and so should we !
Amazing, really.
JJ
Celtic Employees Under Threat…
CELTIC striker Anthony Stokes has revealed how death threats made against him have caused him to consider his future in the sport.
The Dubliner’s time at Parkhead has been riddled with off-field issues, such as being linked in court with a plot to murder renowned loyalist Johnny ‘Mad Dog’ Adair and being spotted at the funeral of Real IRA member Alan Ryan.
Stokes, who is due in court next year over the alleged assault of an Elvis Presley impersonator, admits his five-year spell at Celtic has been turbulent and, at times, he has considered walking away from the limelight his position brings.
“There was a stage where I got four or five threats that I felt I had no option but to speak to the club’s security guys, who reported it to the police,” he said in an interview with Scottish weekly paper The Sunday Post.
“An anonymous Twitter account was set up and sent me messages saying I was going to be shot dead as soon as I got back to Dublin.
“They came in over a period of 10-15 minutes and there was something in it that revealed personal knowledge. That was the worst. I don’t know what was behind it.
“Whatever, it wasn’t just an idiot with a keyboard. There’s nothing really I can do but try and get on with it. I’m certainly not going to accept it.
“People react to what they think is the truth and what they think they know about me. I’ve never gone out to offend anyone and I don’t think I’ve been controversial.
“To a certain extent I guess I am prepared to deal with it but when my girlfriend and kids get dragged into it you always worry they get targeted.
“It definitely got to the point when I thought to myself ‘enough is enough’. There will be those out there who will say I have brought this on myself but I don’t believe that for a minute.
“It’s not just about me, it’s about those around me, my girlfriend, my two young sons – they are the ones who suffer the most.
“There have been stages where it’s got dangerous and I’ve had to consider if it’s really worth it.”
Auldheid
Can’t speak for others but I suspect many may have dismissed number 1. As like you eloquently pointed out in relation to held opinions, regards to Celtic wanting Rangers back in the top tier. Well there’s no evidence to suggest the levels of DD’s upset either.
However there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary, with DD himself commenting on Rangers, their great history & how much he’s looking forward to them being back in the top flight. These comments don’t exactly square with Barcabhoy post peddling his anger as truth?
Your scenario of Celtic making sure they have enough clubs to compete with does indeed make sense to a degree. Although this in no way should stop the club from publicly voicing their shock & disgust at what’s been going on within our game for over a decade.
When Jim Farry held up Jorge Cadette’s licence Fergus was livid & he let everyone know. There was no reason to stay silent as he knew he had truth on our side. What’s the difference here, why the silence?
Perhaps you may indulge me in my own scenario here – Could it be that Celtic also have something to hide & the truth on this occasion is not all on our side?
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 21st December 2015 2:54 pm
If the 5WA had our name on it. It had everybody’s name on it. Do you think every other chairman would be remaining silent if we’d been consulted exclusively on the details?
!!BADA BING!!
Thanks
Seems it is not just my world view ;-)
I expect this to happen. The language of isolation.
The verbal semantics used by those desperate to believe to disparage those who don´t is becoming tardy. I have seen it used lots against Neganon.
The bottom line is our plc were ENTIRELY negligent and incompetent. Too busy back slapping themselves and bestowing bonuses. The only governance they were interested in was financial.
HH
I don’t know when/if Ronny will go and I don’t know who’s likely to replace him.
I know one thing though, Motherwell could have taken 5 off us on Saturday. It was only by the grace of god that Ronny has been spared his Tony Mowbray moment.
Danger to Celtic employees. Not long before I started at the ticket office in early 1998 one of the other staff got rattled with a bike chain walking through Bridgeton. Due to that we were advised not to wear staff ties in public.
GFTB – I’ve supported Ronny all along mate, however for Ronny to sign and play Carlton Cole is just a contradiction in terms – after all that he has been saying about systems and how he wants the team to play.
Some dimwit thought it a good idea to sign said footballer – that person/persons has to be made accountable for their incompetence – far too often this is occurring.
For every Victor Wanyama there are ten dud signings.
HH.
First visit in ages……hope everyone’s real lives are going well.
Big Peat of Islay….are you an Islay man? Or just paying homage to the local product? In either case, Slainte…!
I see some binary thinking on the blog. That is, it is either RD’s fault, or PL’s, or DD’s. Actually, that’s not really binary….but you know what I mean. I hope…..
I think it would be fair to say that it is a mixture of all 3. That being said, a reasonable coach should have achieved MUCH more with the resources RD has.
WEEMINGER on 21ST DECEMBER 2015 3:08 PM
As part of the SFL yes. As was the approval of Dave King at the SFA
Hopefully PL will be summoned to give evidence as part of Mike Ashley´s judicial review.
I bet he is as slippery as a box of Eels
HH
Awe naw.
I didn’t know that.
They still have managed the change of manager brilliantly.
TT
Tinytim
the entire German football is going through a corruption scandal. They are implicated.
HH
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 21st December 2015 3:13 pm
PL excused himself from the DK decision I thought?
As for the 5WA, at the very least then the other club reps one the board as are complicit and yet I hear nothing about them.
I’m going to stick with my current view that that clubs’ were all aware a deal would be done to fast track RIFC into the league structure but they gladly remained ignorant of any details and they were drawn up by Doncaster and Reagan.
Ellbhoy
No club can act until the appeal process has run its course.
Celtic made their position clear when the COS Decision was announced.
In a karmic way the LNS Commission produced the grounds for setting itself aside if ebts were unlawful (disregarding the unlawful nature of the DOS ebts which is a reason to look at the period 2000 to 2002/03 in isolation) so any action has to wait until the appeal runs its course.
The fact is the flaw in the commissioning of LNS was pointed out to the SPL by SFM in 2014 who have ignored as have the SFA who were later given the same evidence by the SPL lawyers.
The authorities have absolutely no intention of acting unless forced to and that has to come from fans telling clubs inaction is not an option, but only after the status of the BTC ebts is finally settled.
Gerrfaethebrig
You asked me last night who I would replace Ronny with and also said you would prefer if my answer was not “Anyone”
I had logged off and didn’t see your question until this morning
No my answer
Almost anyone
Anyone capable of managing a serious level football team
Gerry he seriously is not up to it
At the start of the season he picked Ciftci ahead of Griffiths (on several occasions) that alone warrants instant dismissal
Weeminger
According to JJ who may have it from elsewhere where it rings a bell with me Lawwell and one other voted against allowing DK as fpp.
Weeminger,
I could buy that to an extent but why was Peter Lawwell on the negotiating team for the new TV deal yet a poor wee duped fellow with the same power as say a cowdenbeath when it came to the 5WA
The rigid belief systems mist be taking a hammering I reckon
HH
Good article from James Forrest , My Fav Celtic blogger, 100% Agree with Him.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 21st December 2015 3:24 pm
I’m not saying he was duped at all. I’m saying it suited all the clubs to be at arms length from the details but they were perfectly happy with a deal being done.
Again it kind of comes back to the fact that nobody has since spoken out about it and said words to the effect that ‘we didn’t know anything about it’.
At the moment nobody has any evidence one way or the other so all we can do is make up stories based on what we do know.
Ellbhoy
On DD I got that from someone who is not exactly a Board fan, had no reason to lie and had the contacts. DD apparently heard about it when playing golf and was none too pleased. I mean he had every reason to be given how much he had to back MoN.
What it boils down to is such is the atmosphere of mistrust the very idea that anyone in the Celtic hierarchy could act like a fellow supporters never is given credence.
Fair bit of deflection going on here.
So now I see that it will be down to supporters to deal with the cheating.
While the PLC remain silent.
Yeah, right you are.
The Celtic PLC are well aware of how these bigots have shafted us.
If they don’t speak out they are not representing the supporters.
Silence will help nobody, especially not Celtic…..But it will help the huns tremendously, because they will be getting carte blanch to cheat.
If we allow that to happen….you can forget about it….by then it wont matter.
HH
WITS
Fair play, almost anyone…. When he stops winning trophies I would maybe agree, until then I think we play the cards we are dealt, by the way I think he was playing Ciftci in Europe early games as he couldn’t play in the Spl, pretty sure if available Leigh would and will be number 1, by the way for a while Ronny had you converted
16roads
The Carlton Cole signing is a strange one, not sure if it was just the fact the window had closed and sometimes signing a player freshens the squad up, but as you say Carlton Cole isn’t going to fit Ronny’s formation
WEEMINGER on 21ST DECEMBER 2015 3:31 PM
So if they were not duped why was the TV deal renegotiated to an extent that everyone bar us profited and it was negotiated by us. Behind that backdrop I cannot see us being anything other than enthusiastic about Sevco’s continued survival
HH
I still think that Ciftci is a half decent striker, he has had a poor start to his Celtic career though to be fair.
Both Stuart Armstrong and GMS hit the ground running only to fade away looking like shadows of their former selves.
Do managers even speak to their footballers nowadays?
How about just sitting a player down and simply asking them what role in the team they think best suits them?
We are all over the shop.
HH.
Ellbhoy
On your last point about having something to hide.
I don’t know but have certainly considered it possible but have nothing to support that view.
I think that had their been it would have surfaced by now but all we got wax Juninho, State Aid and McMurdo hinting that undercover payments not limited to RFC ebts.
The very idea that Celtic fans are expected to be silent, in case the rabid bigots get upset….makes my blood boil.
So, we have just to bend over.
Aye, right you are.
That will not be happening.
Even If I end up on my own…I will be challenging these crooks at the SFA and all their cronies.
If I have to picket the SFA on my own ….I will.
We should never be afraid of the truth.
Bring it on….I will be happy to stand against it.
HH
Aw Naw 3.35
Weem inge 3.31
My opinion is that Celtic sacrificed TV money to help reduce the impact on other clubs with precarious finances of the loss of TV income.
That is to keep the league without RFC alive.
They had gone by then.
On the 5 Way which saw TRFC given a place in the bottom tier what should Celtic have objected to and on what grounds?
Being DOBS is not a justification they could have put to other clubs as a reason to object.