Are you looking forward to the AGM tomorrow? As always on these occasions, the questions after the votes will be far more interesting than the formal business of the day. The Living Wage appears on the agenda for the third year, courtesy of the Trust. Celtic now pay at or above Living Wage rates, although they have not signed up to the Foundation and the pay increase for lower-waged members of staff was accompanied with the withdrawal of a discretionary bonus.
Not sure what the cost of this was, or the impact on staff, but we’ll no doubt hear about it tomorrow. I should also say that I’m not signed up to the Living Wage Foundation either, as it has no relevance for my business.
The performance of the team (imperious domestically, impervious to improvement in Europe) will be the central concern from the hall. Celtic are a Champions League club, this is our focus. We need to be competing on that platform regularly.
I expect, and hope, shareholders get an update on Resolution 12, which looks increasingly relevant. You can bet questions will also be asked on whether or not there was a conspiracy to break tax, SPL and SFA rules, and to subvert an SPL Commission.
There’s not a great deal Celtic can say on this matter for now, beyond their statement last week.
Many thanks to Jim Craig and Brendan Sweeney for joining us on the blog last night. These events see the blog at its best and last night’s was no exception. You can buy Brendan’s book, Celtic: The Early Years, or Alex Gordon’s latest, The Winds of Change, Managing Celtic from 1991-2005, at the CQN Bookstore.
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Til later bhoys
feeding duties
HH
Naw he/she/it must be very lonely gets very few responses, more to be pitied than scorned. H H Hebcelt
WC-well done to all concerned,getting Jim and Brendan on last night,both are True Celts. HH
Enjoyed reading through the Q&A on the blog last night. Always a privilege listening to those who lived out our dream for us.
Thanks to Jim and Brendan for their time and thoughts, and Paul and David for sorting out the logistics.
In the middle of a conflagration that threatens to consume the whole village, one wee man starts shouting about how he can’t sleep at night because his neighbour’s dog is barking.
All eyes look away from the fire and pay attention to this righteous complaint about a carnaptious canine.
John James continues to shout Fire!
From his blog today.
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/
“After EBT
As I have consistently stated on this site, I envisage no rationale for any appeal of The Court Of Session directives. As of December 2, the decision will be final and binding. David Murray was not prepared to accept any penalty for his illegal use of two flawed tax avoidance schemes. His official position was that there were no side letters. He was prepared to lie to HMRC. If this matter were taken to The Supreme Court, his lies and obfuscation would lead to him being stripped of his knighthood. His pecuniary advantage from his EBT misadventures was £6,095,000 in tax that was due. It is my fervent desire that he is pursued, compound interest is applied, and a penalty is levied against Mr Murray and each of eighty-three participants in this shoddy enterprise. The three who benefited from the Discounted Option Scheme should also be pursued. There are reciprocal tax arrangements in Australia, The Netherlands and Norway. Most of us were incredulous when David Murray signed Tore Andre Flo from Chelsea for a fee of £12m. We were not aware, at that time, that his salary was exempt of tax and national insurance. If Murray had ended his tax artifice with Moore, De Boer and Flo, he would have almost certainly escaped scrutiny. He controlled the media. The soft credit to fund purchases of this nature, from Masterton and his successor Cummings at The Bank of Scotland, seemed to have no end.
David Murray knew that The Discounted Option scheme had fallen foul of the tax authorities and he knew that his use of EBT was compromised by side letters. He was fully aware that Craig Whyte did not have the wherewithal to run Rangers. Murray was aware that Whyte and his colleague Sykes had a history of buying distressed companies, separating debt from assets, then profiting from the asset sale or any existing pension funds. Rangers, as far as Murray was concerned, was a £52.5m smoking gun that had to be disposed of as quickly as possible.
The advent of Charles Green led to the 5-Way Agreement. Neil Doncaster granted Green’s new company Sevco Scotland, immunity from any fallout from the tax misadventures of Murray and others. Green reciprocated with a statement that he would not take legal action against the SFA, SFL or SPL. There was a desire to draw a line under the illegal tax avoidance and to move on. A commission was set up, led by a respected former Judge and his two assistants. Its conclusions are now subject to fevered debate. I will itemise each conclusion from Mr Smith’s report in italics.
“It is not a breach of SPL and SFA rules for a club to arrange its affairs, within the law, so as to minimise its tax liabilities.”
When we look at this premise, we should note that the Discounted Options Scheme was outwith the scope of Mr Smith’s commission. The DOS were unlawful. Taxes of £2.8m and a penalty of £1.4m were due. This was swept under the carpet by Campbell Ogilvie and Neil Doncaster.
“The Tax Tribunal has held that Oldco was acting within the law when setting up and operating the EBT scheme.The SPL presented no argument to challenge the the decision of the majority of The Tax Tribunal and Mr McKenzie stated expressly that for all purposes of this Commission Inquiry and Determination, the SPL accepted that decision as it stood, without regard to any possible appeal by HMRC. Accordingly we proceed on the basis that the EBT arrangements were lawful.”
The SPL and Commission inquiry accepted the FTT determinations and that was the end of the matter. Mr McKenzie, a partner in Harper Macleod, was leading the case against Rangers at that time. The premise that underpinned the inquiry was that Mr McKenzie would collate information from Rangers, the SPL and The SFA, and subsequently present this to the commission, which could then be challenged by Charles Green and his executives. RIFC refused to participate in what they perceived to be a ‘kangaroo court’ which resulted in Harper McLeod being provided with information in regard to Rangers from Campbell Ogilvie.
In summary we have an FTT stating EBT are lawful, the SPL agreeing, and the case against Rangers being presented with evidence from Mr Ogilvie who was pro Rangers and who had not only participated in the administration of EBT, but had actually benefited from an EBT severance package.
This inquiry was an utter sham. To add insult to injury, Sandy Bryson then stepped up with his ‘imperfectly registered’ concept. If he had dropped his trousers at this point we would have had the comfort of knowing we were watching a Brian Rix farce.
The end result was a fine that RIFC refused to pay and an inquiry whose scope, information and conclusions were adulterated.
So what happens now? Probably nothing. Peter Lawwell is not going to petition The Court of Session for a Judicial Review. Why would he spend £100,000 to have the LNS inquiry, that has been discredited at every level, set aside?As for those in football governance, they will only pay lip service to sporting integrity.
A boycott of season tickets might focus minds, but what would be the end result? Another inquiry that King would not participate in and more lies from Sandy Bryson?
The appeal deadline will come and go and our corrupt authorities will continue.
Missed the live chat last night, will try and catch up with it if I can free up half an hour to bat off the deluge of pure shite that pollutes my screen masquerading as advertising. Unbearable now, sorry.
(Quietly scrolls back up to ogle the American newscaster’s raspberry ripples)
Just for good measure, John James anniihilates Alex Mooney..
“A D**** R***** Blog
The Sports Editor of The Daily Record published a blog by Alex Mooney on the case against any further consideration of Rangers former tax arrangements. To all intents and purposes it was a satirical piece by a contributor to King proxy, the RST.
Mr Mooney posited that another inquiry would destroy the Scottish game. He evidently prefers a Rangers hegemony where the 15 titles earned during a period of unlawful competitive advantage should remain unchallenged.
He suggests that Mr Lawwell and Mr King get together to share a bottle of red and move forward with a renewed sense of Old Firm vigour, in the best interests of Scottish Football.
Would it be facetious of me to ask Mr Mooney as to whether he envisages a scenario where Mr Lawwell will visit Mr King in HMP Brixton with a can of Red Bull?
I get the distinct impression that Mr Mooney is blissfully unaware that Mr King is currently under licence for a contempt of court conviction. Adam Lewis QC, acting for Sports Direct, will impress upon the Judge that King is an incorrigible career criminal for whom the only recourse is a spell of imprisonment. This is not a specious flight of fancy Mr Mooney. Mr King is facing Xmas behind bars.
One of the many flaws in Mr Mooney’s argument was his sense of religious persecution. This site will not countenance any discussion of any religion, but suffice to say that other fans of Scottish football who choose to worship at The Church of Scotland, have joined the social media chorus for title stripping. Mr Mooney should have taken pause prior to articulating this flawed theory.
Those who are regular visitors to this site will note that I attempted to defend the indefensible. In the final analysis, I failed to convince anyone to walk away from this debacle.
However, the biggest challenge to Mr Mooney’s proposed ecumenical and sporting harmony came from our criminal chairman. Mr King is threatening to deploy a team of forensic accountants to look at the accounts of every club in the professional game should they not bend to his will.
It was an astonishing statement from a man whose four decades of corporate malfeasance has resulted in 325 criminal charges and 42 convictions. Mr King has no desire for harmony. He has to be seen to be fighting the good fight as he requires a ‘cause celebre‘ to garner 75% support for his equity smash and grab at the forthcoming AGM.
Mr Mooney should be apprised of the fact that should King walk from The High Courts of Justice with a hefty fine, that will be paid by Rangers, Mr Ashley is planning to drag SFA executives into the dock of The Court of Session. The details of King’s impropriety will be laid out for all to see in both London and Edinburgh.
Mr Ashley is playing with King. He invited him to Shirebrook on the pretext of a meeting with Ashley, Forsey & Olsen and subsequently arranged for bailiffs to present him with a summons to attend court. From December 9 to February 4th, he is going to expose this reprehensible charlatan to public scrutiny. King is a pariah in South Africa. He will soon be a pariah in Scotland.
The idea of any self-respecting chairman breaking bread with King is the singular fantasy of Mr Mooney’s febrile imagination.”
The fire still burns.
Celtic FC – Sleep-Out for Celtic FC Foundation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlY7n0lvKQs
I have little time for folk who assert that the outcome of any legal case is a given.
John James is one such.
BitterExperienceCSC
Jungle Jim hot smoked
JUNGLE JIM HOT SMOKED on 19TH NOVEMBER 2015 1:24 PM
“Turkeybhoy
I agree with your comments about the anodyne nature of the questions and the predictability of the answers last night. I wanted to ask the most basic questions re same Club and title stripping . I refrained because I felt it might be embarrassing for the two guys, particularly Jim Craig. I didn`t want to put him on the spot whereby some churnalist would pick up on it and use it out of context.
Then I found that I couldn’t think of anything else to ask a Lisbon Lion who played under our greatest manager for our greatest team during our Club’s most successful years, so I just decided to complain about others who did.
Maybe Tom Boyd would be a more in tune candidate for a future CQN Q&A. ”
——————————-
There, fixed that for you. Hope we don’t get any more Lisbon Lions who are not “in-tune” on again, giving up their time to chat on CQN , eh?
They’re so 1967.
Finally read through last night’s Q&A.
Grateful thanks to all concerned.
Tontine Tim,
Still on the TC case
Celtic toured Ireland, mostly the Border counties, pre the ’75-76 Season.
Due to security issues, they were ferried between fixtures by a volunteer fleet of private cars, rather than by a conspicuous coach.
An acquaintance of mine was one of those drivers and became friendly with his group, including TC.
One day, before the season started, he called at my house in East Kilbride and asked me if I fancied a wee trip to Parkhead. Did I?
We were inside the ground chatting to Sean Fallon and others, when Tommy approached and acknowledged my mate, who asked him why he had put in a transfer request.
Callaghan shrugged his shoulders and said, what else could he do.
This was due to the continuing abuse he was receiving from a very vocal section of the Celtic,his, support.
Fortunately, he withdrew his request.
I have never forgotten that incident, as, perhaps for the first time, I realised what effect that the mindless morons can have on a man’s well being and career.
Unfortunately, the descendants of those nonentities still infest our Stadium, with the same lack of football knowledge and the Grace of God.
P.S.
In those far off, non PC days, Kenny Dalglish passed by and Sean Fallon told him the time that the bus was leaving for a pre season friendly in Birmingham.
His reply would be perhaps actionable now,
TBB
Maybe so, but of course PhilMac says as much in his own piece..
Same sentiment different prose.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/personal-not-business/#more-7065
Personally, in Scotland I too take nothing for granted, but if it keeps the fire burning under those who are hiding then I will provide oxygen to both John & Phil.
Hope you are well.
NOWA
TTT
I bet Sean would have loved to have put him in his place man to man as in the good old day
God rest his soul
BlantyreKev – and Winning Captains
There’s now quite sufficient feedback from those who use the blog to change the approach to revenue generation. Most of us appreciate that the blog doesn’t operate in a cost vacuum, and support the efforts to ensure that Paul’s investment in time, people and hosting charges is covered financially.
However, CQN’s value is in its community. Of all Paul’s achievements with this blog, it is the community that he has fostered that stands apart. Translating that into a revenue-generating medium is apt to dilute the very thing that sets CQN apart.
In the (apparent) rush to superimpose a mass-media model on the blog, we risk losing the very thing that is most valuable.
In creating commercial worth, we are losing sight of Values.
That’s about as clearly as I can (politely) put it.
Respectfully,
TBB
Good evening, friends.
TBB
100% agree
It’s a pain in the ⚽️⚽️⚽️’S
Just watched Scott browns interview at his book launch
Wants to win the treble before he retires. . Wouldn’t rule out managing celtic in the future and qualifying for a major international tournament.
Had a wee chuckle as thought 1 was likely – 2 was a long shot and 3 far fetched imho
Then rahman goes to an article about young Kenny misser – he hopes to win the premiership again with rangers.
I actually burst out laughing and thought broony has more chance of getting to the next world cup and managing celtic
I remember once hearing that if someone gives you more than one excuse for something you know they are lying.
For example, if you ask if someone wants to go out tonight and they say they have to get up early the next day, then it’s probably true. But if they say they are working late, and their auntie is visiting and the cat isn’t well then it’s probably not true.
On a COMPLETELY unrelated matter, here are some of the – ahem – “reasons” for no title-stripping:
1. EBTs weren’t illegal.
2. It was a long time ago.
3. It has already been covered.
4. It’s time to move on.
5. The players would have signed anyway.
6. If they hadn’t signed, we’d have bought equally good ones.
7. Some of the EBT recipients were poor players.
8. Nimmo Smith said so.
9. It was all the Murray Group.
10. There was no sporting advantage.
11. Bryson said so.
12. We’ve been punished enough already.
13. We’d have won the games anyway.
14. We would have found other money from, err, “somewhere”.
15. It was all in the accounts.
16. We were demoted to the bottom league.
17. We lost all our best players.
18. More money doesn’t guarantee success.
19. Martin O’Neill said so.
20. It’s about bragging rights.
21. It’s a sectarian thing.
22. The players won the titles on the pitch.
23. Juninho had an EBT.
Paul67 starring on Shortbread now
I wonder how many posters would prefer a return to the old steam powered CQN, i.e. just a simple blog with no bells, whistles or intrusive ads?
JJ-;))
Big Chips UK
Stay calm, stay calm!!
SYD NEGAKEV
About 90% of the ones who don’t post anymore,for starters…
Alex Mooney achieved what he always hoped he would and to have the DR to pay him for it is a very welcome bonus.
He shall be drinking out on this for a long time.
Loves nothing better than to shit stir and will be wallowing, nae chuckling, at the many responses to his drivel.
He is the same Alex Mooney with whom BRT thinks he worked.
He is a Tim, his alma mater is similar to many on here…Tradamus lampada.
Go Paul. Shred these clowns.
Syd
Kitalba posted years ago about a voluntary payment to the blog
I know people would pay and I know people would think because the pay they have a right to post crap. Maybe Paul wanted to keep a firm grip on the blog by not being moaned at by people who ‘pay their way’ but the adverts and trending articles about rich women with big assetts etc is very annoying imo
My pal is on celticminded and I think they pay
Btw
Take nothing away from Cqn book etc it’s jut the time wasted refreshing and the hassle to get back to the last post etc
Take just now for example
I refreshed the page and ended up at top of the page again, no big problem I’ll scroll down and as I tried I get that old woman again with some big magnifying glass
O2 might be dog but I don’t give a flying feck
BT
I think people, myself included, will post crap whether we pay or not. :-)
Personally, I’m not bothered by ads due to Adblocker but it appears to be such an irritant for many others and possibly the reason that some of the old school no longer post.
Murdo coming along as very bitter. Paul doing a sound job so far.
I despise the national broadcaster…………..
shockeroonie.
Blantyretim. Sean Fallon was long overdue to be at Celtic Park to raise the league fan. His contribution to Celtic can never be measured.
Sean and Tommy Burns epitomised what Celtic are all about.
God bless both of them and their families.
Syd
I have add blocker but it clearly doesn’t work well enough on iPhone 5
No one posts more rubbish than I do but I enjoy Cqn and it is still the only Celtic site I use
Anyway away s Mrs bt has summoned me from the pub
………..Poor “Murder” McLeod……………
I wonder if Paul will get a chance to ask the pundits whether they think that spending more money would give Celtic a better chance of success.
Or would they stick to the line that money can’t buy success.
On the subject of a likely appeal in the BTC the situation is really very complex now.
From the little research I’ve done the situation for BDO appears to be that they are obliged to eliminate as many ‘bad’ creditor claims as they can. Through the admin process much of this has been done and the small claims that remain on the list we must assume are bona fide (the face painter, the shredding company, ambulance service etc). HMRC’s wee tax case is accepted, and the PAYE and VAT not paid by Mr Whyte, all ‘good’ creditors.
Dave King’s claim was challenged as bad successfully and removed from the list. This obviously increases the likely dividend for the good creditors. The FTT and UTT turned HMRC’s BTC claim bad. Again the dividend increased for the good creditors. The PI claim on Collyer Bristow another boost for the good creditors. BDO doing a good job overall thus far and by the book. Kudos.
But the CoS ruling muddies the waters here. It becomes a ‘good’ creditor claim, I mean the ruling is from 3 law lords! But true to form in protecting the dividend for the good creditors could or should BDO try to turn that creditor ‘bad’. That’s the conundrum, and I don’t have an answer.
What we do know is that with that claim ‘good’ most of the pot is HMRC’s and the other good creditors are returned much less.
With an appeal the dividend pot in total will drop because of the costs of appeal, regardless if won or lost at the Supreme Court.
If the case is lost at the Supreme Court all the creditors currently good get less that they would today because of BDO’s actions. This would therefore be a clear, unequivocal failure on their part.
If the case is won then the good creditors as listed the day before the CoS ruling go back to having a bigger percentage of the pot. A smaller pot. BDO have at that stage protected the good creditors and would deserve some credit.
That is a conundrum. At this stage the BTC creditor is good, decided by 3 law lords. A failure to win the opposing view damages the pot and all creditors. That is a huge call. Not appealing risks the wrath of the non HMRC creditors. How vociferous could that be? In an actual pound divvy up is it even worth challenging? I can’t see it now King is not there with his spurious £20m wheeze.
With me so far on the why this one is tight?
Well hang on to the theory on the good and the bad because here comes the ugly.
Worthington/Law Financial/Rangers FC group/Craig Thomas Whyte have arrived to poop in the said pot and claim it as their own! Secured creditor status, every penny claimed.
BDO have said they will challenge this as a bad claim, we know this already.
So what is the cost to the pot of that? The good creditors, current or future, are all going to have to live with that. But what does it mean for the BTC appeal? Can they really fight two fires? The pot is at risk of boiling dry and my metaphors are getting worse by the minute.
Now you might be thinking I’m going to conclude they won’t appeal the BTC but just before I do let’s look at the gravy train of commercialism. With every hour they are in the seat they are making top dollar fees, and whatever way they go there is a sound reasoning (or excuse!). Is this a factor?
We’ll never know.
So in short I have offered no definitive position and you may or may not have enjoyed reading this.
Hail Hail
With regards to supporting the blog financially am I the only one who already does this?
Can’t remember how it started but a few weeks ago my annual ‘subscription’ came off my bank. I think it might have been a suggestion a couple of years ago which was completely voluntary and it is only a very modest amount that I gladly pay.
Jobo