A few months after that win over Barcelona and being eliminated in the knock-out stages of the Champions League by Juventus, Neil Lennon took his Celtic team to Astana, where Shakhter Karagandy elected to play their home tie in the 2013 qualifiers, while sacrificing a sheep for good fortune on the pitch a day earlier.
We lost 2-0 before performing an heroic rescue a week later to snatch victory in stoppage time, but some of the detail from the defeat in Kazakhstan has been lost.
In the opening stages at the Astana Arena we looked miles ahead before Shakhter scored a 12th minute opener. We continued to dominate possession – 61% overall – but failed to put the ball in the net, before conceding a late second, which must have delighted and surprised the Kazaks in equal measure.
A 2-0 loss away in Europe is a bad result, but the nature of the game gave plenty of room for encouragement. We were clearly a better team, but didn’t have our act together, especially in defence.
This game was the one and only start for that urban legend, Steven Mouyokolo, who partnered Charlie Mulgrew in central defence to give new guy, Virgil van Dijk, his second start, making a very unaccustomed appearance at full back. What did we expect? It wasn’t a surprise that we did enough in the return leg with a more conventional look at the back (Mouyokolo and van Dijk were both dropped).
Astana have several things in their favour. They are fully fit, 21 games into their league season, and 10 points ahead, so they’ve had the luxury of resting players as the qualifiers approached. Shakhter Karagandy have also agreed to postpone their scheduled game on Saturday, so Astana won’t play until they face Celtic next week. By contrast, Brendan Rodgers still needs game-time to work his players up to full fitness.
Last season Astana reached the Champions League group stage, eliminating Maribor (cough), HJK Helsinki and APOEL Nicosia along the way. Their group performances against Atletico, Benfica and Galatasaray were more than credible – two defeats and four draws, achieved by defending in numbers across all six games.
Listen carefully to the confidence the Shakhter manager who faced us three years ago has in his fellow Kazaks. Astana will be buoyed by last season’s achievements and will have watched the debacle in Gibraltar. They think they are the stronger team and, unlike their group stage games last season, will attack Celtic at home.
The last time they attacked at home in Europe was a year ago against HJK Helsinki, who scored three on the counter-attack but conceded four. There will be space to exploit on that bumpy plastic surface in central Asia. Defend, forget faux comforts like 61% possession, and have Leigh, Patrick, James and Callum hit them on the break.
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Why does this place now feel like a room where the smell of a particularly stinking fart is draining away through the open windows?
I love the ole view that we should sight our targets only on the Orcs and the SFA and ignore the failures within our own club.
What a brilliant idea.
Kits post is superb and it is information that has been widely available for the last 4 or 5 years. Rangers are however now dead. They killed themselves.
We still need to sight our targets on our own clubs failures i.e. downsizing and rewarding mediocrity in our CEO.
Oh and wait. i do believe our existing CEO was running the company\club while all that cheating was allowed to go unanswered except for the occasional soundbite.
More fool the fools within.
MWD
If that Astana team, fit as they may be actually make it back in time for the game – a cycle like that has to take a bit out of you.
WHITEDOGHUNCH on 22ND JULY 2016 1:25 PM
If that Astana team, fit as they may be actually make it back in time for the game – a cycle like that has to take a bit out of you.
Very good, I liked that!
Choccy wasn’t sacked he left for one reason and one reason only,Stewart Regan
Lads I have been told that soldiers Girl and Eqtiraan are fancied by the hannon yard in the 150 and 220 Ascot
I like Mont Ras in the 800 at York
Charlie Mulgrew to re-sign Lawwell says it is just like signing a new player. H.H.
Moonbeamswd
Well said but won’t be welcome on Ostrich Quick News.
Think KITALBA is going to have a bigger list to write this season.
It’s ok though as we have our men in place on football committees.
James Forrest-
I read your blog on the Daily Record`s Peter Lawwell Puff-Piece with interest.
The emergence of this article is a sure sign that the writing is on the wall and that “Operation Save Lawwell and Hang the Coaches and Players Out to Dry” has already begun. Mr Lawwell knows fine well that what Celtic have is not enough to qualify for the CL and its now time to get the excuses in early.
Peter Lawwell has his own fondness for doling out succulent lamb to his own favoured “truth channels” when it suits his purposes; this often involves the Daily Record and daily Mail, rags that should give any Celtic fan the dry boak.
Here is an example of the succulent lamb at work. 2 page spread given over to Lawwell in the Daily Mail on the Friday after our CL qualifying exit to Maribor.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2738169/Celtic-chief-executive-Peter-Lawwell-There-no-pile-cash-money-invest-right-players.html
Its a full house for the usual Lawwell-deflection-bingo.
– “nobody hurts more than me when Celtic fail”;
– “my family get loads of abuse”;
– “I`ve had offers from elsewhere”; (never ever pressed for any details when this claim surfaces)
– “If we give a star player a higher salary that will cause dressing room unrest” (like it did with Henke?);
– “Its too hard because of that nasty EPL”; (how does that explain failure to live with Maribor, Malmo etc? – of course with it being succulent lamb journalism, the question is not asked);
– “Steven Fletcher is on £37,000 per week” (why would that be relevant to Celtic?)
– “We had a stronghold in Ireland, that’s gone to the EPL” (why are we then prostituting ourselves to an American mob for 2 friendlies in Ireland that interfere with our domestic and European schedule this season?)
– “We are recognised as one of the best clubs in Europe, if not the world” (what do the people of Poland, Slovenia, Sweden, Norway, Gibraltar etc make of that claim given our “European exploits” in recent years
We can expect more of this. The strategy is simple. Do the bare minmum in the transfer market. Succulent lamb pieces to the press to keep the fans onside. And keep rummaging the bins, treatment rooms and development squads of the EPL to try and get some untested young guys on loan to add to a squad that is already top heavy in young guys who are untested at a decent European level.
And we pay a million quid a year for this. Extraordinary.
i thought BR wanted pace brought in, god help us if CM resigns.
Our Transfer Committee is reminiscent of the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark, when Henry Jones Jnr asks whats happening to the “Ark” only to be told “top men are working on it”. Top men are working on our transfers apparently.
Jesus wept, as did I
Got to agree with James Forrest. Brendan Rodgers surely won’t put up with this none sense for too long with his reputation at stake.
He will have been well aware of the transfer policies at the club having taken counsel from Lennon Strachan and others. However he may have been given assurances by Lawwell that there was a change in policy.
I argued on Twitter this morning that there must be 20 centre backs that we could sign with a value below £2m that would improve the team. For example- take 2 centre backs from any of the teams in the Polish, Slovenian, Croatian, Dutch, Danish etc leagues… Identify the likely prices to be paid and go for the best one top to bottom until you reach an agreed minimum level of quality that we would not go with.
Seems complicated? Factor in number of games played with a rating for champions league games internationals etc, then a factor for goals conceded. Sounds like a statistical database? Well it probably is and we probably use a version of it.
However, I believe we also have a large age constraint cap of 23 which narrows the field substantially.
So rather than rolling up to Maribor for example with a suitcase to sign a centre half we say no he has no sell on
value.
Even we do find a centre back that fits the profile, the initial fee instantly becomes a dead stop if it is beyond our ceiling price. Shane Duffy may well be an example of that, though the stories in the press and the Internet rumours do not help with supporters expectations. There is still an over reliance by supporters on press or internet stories being a reality. We follow the Press story, add some rumour to it, make timescale expectations .. Add some more rumour etc. Meanwhile the club concentrate on another target.
Going back to the club though, it is once that formula (defined by a number or collected opinion) identifies a target that we enter negotiations. These negotiations can only be protracted given the time it takes to purchase a player when one is badly needed.
I’ll step away from the main argument on the failings of our recruitment strategy to look at this- do we badly need a centre back? That is the question Lawwell will have asked? Will he have analysed the ability of Rodgers to get more from the existing squad. Does Lawwell think that although there is weakness at Centre Back, that overall our squad is better than any potential opponent we could face in the qualifiers and therefore he won’t be busting the transfer fee and wage structure? Is it that Lawwels remit is to ensure that we negotiate for as long as possible regardless of deadline days to ensure we get the best fee for any player?
My conclusion is that we have a skewed risk management plan in place from that which should be reality. We also have an age cap on player recruitment which handicaps potential quality in order to deliver potential future income. We also have Lawwell making decisions about the quality of players, the quality of our squad and the likelihood of qualifying for the Champions League. Is he qualified to do that?
Would you risk 200k on a player transfer or 2m on an individual you couldn’t make money on to improve the quality of a squad you thought had a 60% chance of qualifying already? Would you risk the same on 1 player if you thought the quality was never good enough to qualify and the money was better saved for later in the transfer window when you could beat down the club at the other end of the table?
if pl has screwed br then brendan will walk.
should be………..imo
Perhaps BR is 100% happy with what’s happened so far.
Paul.
Having Leigh ,Patrick , James & Callum to hit them on the break might mean being a tad inefficient at the ole defending malarkey. HH
MULLET AND CO 2:
A pretty decent analysis overall.
It’s not Peter Lawwell’s job, or yours or mine or anyone elses, to second guess the management.
His job description doesn’t include interfering with the team and with squad building. I don’t care how many trophies he’s won at Football Manager, he has no business making those kind of decisions.
The manager thinks we need bodies at the back. That’s the be all and end all of the discussion. He says we need them, Lawwell’s job is to go out and get them, not to do an independent analysis of whether we actually do or not.
This is not good enough, the zombies have signed 9 players we have only Dembele. I demand Peter goes out and signs another 9 players immediately.
Although I’d settle for a Centre Half, a creative Midfielder and a striker.
MontaefeckPedroCSC.
The situation regarding Simunovic and Boyata was well clear at the end of the season.Everybody knew we would be struggling for a centre back partnership at the beginning of the Champions League qualifiers,yet nothing was done.Efe must not be allowed to play against Astana,he has had too many chances and does not have the necessary concentration to play at this level.This probably leaves us having to make a deal with Charlie Mulgrew who has had no pre season training or games.Surely Brendan must have been made aware of the situation when he took the job.
You can tell things have been too smooth and peaceful on CQN these last few days, when posters start commenting about “cue the board lovers saying ABC” and “wait for the happyclappers claiming XYZ” rather in the vein of a drunk looking for a fight and trying to rope his pals into it.
BetterThingsToDoCSC
The club thinks that there is less risk in buying young players and developing them to sell than there is risk in investing in the team to qualify for the champions league.
If you buy 3 players per season at under 23 for less than 2 million you may well get lucky and qualify for the Champions League in X out of y seasons. If you don’t you still have an asset to sell. See Forster, VVD etc.
The current thinking may well be that if we could just get Hernveen to agree to cut the sell on fee we might get Juste for an agreeable price. Haggling to the extremes of our recruitment policy.
Lawwels EPL competitor makes me sick every time I read it. Who cares about the EPL we can’t compete it’s a waste of time even brining it up.
Having said that, Leicster blew a few peoples argument that we couldn’t compete in the Champions League out of the water.
With the right game plan and the players to suit it you can.
Auld Tam
you really do talk some amount of pish!
MWD
Hugh
who cares what the huns do?
MWD
James Forrest,
This football team is crying out for experience. It would be interesting to see if Brendan Rodgers agrees and if he does what is Lawwels opinion?
We still seem to be cutting off at age 23.
We cut down the list of targets by about 70% by having that constraint then the negotiations become more complicated due to the sell on fees and the number of people involved with young players – development fees etc.
I feel that the business is being driven by the perception that the profit is easier in player transfers than in its raison detre.
I don’t believe for one minute that PL has not tried to get players signed before last nights deadline
Unfortunately PL, even with a club like Celtic with 50k ST Holders has the influence to go and by who we fancy
Example we were interested in Joe Allen he is going to Stoke £13m and probably £50k a week why would Liverpool sell him to Celtic for a number less than £13m and why would he come for a number definitely less than £50k a week
Shane Duffy plays alongside Grant Hanley at Blackburn Hanley just gone to Newcastle for nearly £6m and probably £35/40k a week why would Blackburn sell Duffy for less and why sell at all when you have just sold one centre half
Aston Villa paid £12m to Swansea for Scott Sinclaire why sell to Celtic for £2.2m when Championship clubs are buying players for £10m (Rhodes Blackburn to Middlesborgh) Villa believe he is worth more than £2.2
And as importantly all the clubs Celtic talk to are aware that we have 50k ST Holders and that we are in the CL Qualifiers – so in poker terms we are not holding any Ace’s
The reason why we got Dembelle was he was out of contract
Buying a footballer is easy – over the last 5 years we have made agents rich and Celtic poor with some real dross
BR wants one or two who will play and improve the team now – thats a harder task and it takes a bit of time
IMHO there is no point buying bench warmers or “one for the future”
67ECW
“Defend, forget faux comforts like 61% possession, and have Leigh, Patrick, James and Callum hit them on the break.”
———
Sounds good in theory, Paul, but we just don’t seem to have a counter-attacking game in our repertoire. Hopefully this is something Brendan will develop.
Wouldn’t play Forrest btw – his decision making is just too poor.
Mistake-free football for the next four European games.
Steve Bruce quits Hull City. A return to Sunderland to replace Big Sam?
Yeah, I’m disappointed that we haven’t signed more than Moussa and even more disappointed that we have rejigged the Victor Wanyama song for him.
If we want him, then I would have been trying to convince Kolo Toure to spend 12 months in the dear green place. Experience at centre back.
The others? Well, if we want the quality we all want the state of play is that agents and players will wait to see what else is on offer before committing. Unless your out of contract, no-one else is interested or are being swooned by mega bucks you don’t move before August.
I wonder what the exact wording of Brendan’s clause is.
The reason I ask is that it must now be clear to him that Celtic have no chance of acquiring players of real quality.
Also, as forecast months ago, there is little real chance of Celtic qualifying for sectional stage with current squad.
This PL is “trying his hardest” garbage would work if this was his first time, sadly its not his first rodeo, he knew a long time ago we would be going into the CL qualifiers weak in defense, even if everyone was fit, he has also been made aware of the targets when BR came on board. He may be a super dooper bean counter and obviously worth his bonus, as its not dependent on us getting to the Champions League
If I perform badly at work on a monday, and blame it on the weekend…. that wouldn’t be acceptable. I’d be told that I’m I’m being paid to do my job and I’m expected to honour the hours my contract dictates. No excuses.
My point is (if not already blatantly obvious), pro football players have no excuse for not being 100% fit at any stage of the season…. obviously excluding injury or other mitigating circumstances.
Lack of sharpness and lack of momentum is understandable, but lack of fitness? No excuse for a labourer. No excuse for a (very, very well-paid) pro footballer.
-Tambo
Very few, in fact none in the way of worst result in their history comments on the reporting of hearts loss to the Maltese part timers. Its good to know that we are treated differently.
WEEMINGER on 22ND JULY 2016 2:11 PM
Perhaps BR is 100% happy with what’s happened so far.
Who knows, I’d hope he is intelligent enough to have done his homework on us and enough of a realist to understand what’s possible
QUONNO on 22ND JULY 2016 2:46 PM
Should have read, i wonder what the exact wording of Brndan’s get out clause is.
The reason I ask is that it must now be clear to him that Celtic have no chance of acquiring players of real quality.
Also, as forecast months ago, there is little real chance of Celtic qualifying for sectional stage with current squad.
STAIRHEEDRAMMY on 22ND JULY 2016 2:48 PM
Very few, in fact none in the way of worst result in their history comments on the reporting of hearts loss to the Maltese part timers. Its good to know that we are treated differently.
True. But then again, it is we who claim to be a club like no other.
Why why why are we comparing ourselves to anything in the EPL?
Let’s look at the transfers of continental clubs in Europe.
http://www.betinf.com/netherland_transfer.htm
http://www.betinf.com/belgium_transfer.htm
Nothing in there Celtic can’t compete with and yet we will not or can’t compete?
I am sure if you went through every league apart from The EPL and the top sides in the other 4 top leagues you would find we could compete with transfer fees and wages for their players. We choose not to.
Forrest made 5/6 goal scoring chances on Wednesday,hardly poor decision making imo
QUONNO on 22ND JULY 2016 2:46 PM
It’s July 22, we’ve got nearly 6 weeks to go in the window and we’ve already brought in a striker who was wanted by Spurs in January. Our record in bringing in quality since he took over isn’t bad
I’m sure he realized the challenges we face to bring in quality players, if he’s been surprised by it then maybe he wasn’t right for the job
Defence against Astana……
For the away leg, unless we bring someone in, it probably needs to be Efe.
It is all about balancing risks……
The risk of Efe efffing up again vs. the risk of playing an experimental system that the players are not familiar with vs. the risk of people playing out of position. Slightly depressing that we need to have this debate ahead of such a critical game.
What I think is equally important is the midfield and protection the defence get from there. At times under Deila that protection was awful from the likes of Biton / Brown in the centre, Roberts / Armstrong wide. These guys need to put in a huge defensive shift closing space in a smart way.