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Bankier, Livingston and most plural club in UK

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I didn’t see Ian Bankier’s performance today, but I watched his predecessor John Reid a few times. John wasn’t liked by a significant body of the support, largely for professional reasons (his role in government), but when he got on his feet to address Celtic supporters, he had an intuitive feel for what to say. No one ever needed to script him.

Ian Livingston has received a lot of criticism since voting with the government in the recent Tax Credits bill. I’d heard the nature of some of what was written online included reference to his background – appalling, without question. Nor would it surprise you or me, we’ve been online long enough to see just about everything, including those who troll others on account of their background or identity. Often with Celtic-related targets.

We are a plural club, with people from Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, and for all I know, other backgrounds, on our board, all these and more in our dressing room, and among our support. I’m proud of this. We are often caricatured as an exclusively Irish-diaspora club but few in the UK can claim such an ethnic panorama.

A club of immigrants founded 127 years ago has continued to attract new immigrants ever since.  It’s worthwhile reminding ourselves of this, it should continue to be a part of our forward strategy.  What correlates with this is that anyone with a prejudice will find a target at Celtic – such is the diversity of our club. Celtic fans, players and officials have been targets like this for a very long time.

Was Ian Livingston right to vote with the government on Tax Credits? No. I haven’t considered the policy’s economic merits (first pass suggested it had none) but I believe his voice should have been raised against the policy. The expectations of being a representative of Celtic, not just a board member, are weighty.

Ian Bankier could have read all inappropriate online comment referring to Ian Livingston’s background immediately before today’s AGM, but that forum was not the place to mark anyone’s card. The intuitive feel John Reid had on these occasions was missing today. Go complain about such comment to the appropriate authorities, or to whatever online facilities hosted the comments, tell Ian Livingston ‘You’ll never walk alone’ in a private moment, but address shareholders and Celtic fans on matters appropriate to them.

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  1. BRT&H, but we are where we are now. Fergus came with two things in mind, as far as I could see, restructure Celtic, put it on a sound financial and structural footing and to make money.

     

    He succeeded. Perhaps not with a model universally loved or one that achieved everything Fergus wanted to achieve, I seem to remember he wanted to avoid a Murray type ownership, which we now seem to have with DD.

     

    It is what we do now, next that matters.

     

    Persuading DD will be a huge task. What incentive for such change can be given? Why should DD and the other major shareholder change now?

     

    I’m not arguing against your point, a democratic ownership sounds great, but from where we now how is it achieved?

  2. the glorious balance sheet on

    I once thought the Singing Detective was the worst troll on this site, closely followed by JoshyBoy and SuperSammy.

     

     

    That effort at 1.32pm from the broken record player who spouts a diet of the same guff every day on here, is a new low in malicious trolldom.

     

     

    Not the full shilling.

  3. BIG-CUP-WINNERS…

     

     

    No stupidity would be promoting a boycott at each and every turn, Without attempting to achieve change by less destructive means. You advocate a boycott a lot.

     

     

    I don’t wish to put words in NegAnon’s mouth (or characters on his keyboard?), but maybe the reason he advocates boycotts is because trying to instigate change through less destructive means has been an absolute failure.

     

     

    Countless campaigns, not one single scalp. NegAnon’s methods may be blunt but history would suggest they’re also ruthlessly effective.

     

     

    To put that into action, previously I’d buy every strip. Now, until Celtic employ an ethical manufacturer, I won’t buy another. I had two season tickets (and refused regular comps), now I have none. I am currently a shareholder, soon I won’t be. Each and every financial connection I have with Celtic will be severed until two things happen – firstly, the current board are gone. And secondly when there is a tacit acceptance that the fans having political views expressing them is a perfectly legitimate and reasonable thing to do. Anything short of that and Celtic are just another club plying their trade in a dull backwater.

     

     

    Other clubs can manage these things, a club set up with the ideals that Celtic *had*, should find them second nature.

     

     

    /p

  4. After the November International break last year we recorded a narrow 2:1 home wing against Dundee and then lost 1:3 at home to Salzburg.

     

     

    The year before we managed a 3:1home win against Aberdeen before losing 0:3 at CP against AC Milan.

     

     

    Three years ago we did not have a November International break.

     

     

    Looks like we manage the domestic challenge ok, after International breaks, but the record does not suggest an easy win against Ajax next Thursday

  5. BIG-CUP-WINNERS on

    p8ddy

     

     

    “because trying to instigate change through less destructive means has been an absolute failure”

     

     

    What was a failure, what action ?

     

     

    The only thing that people actually do is to repeat the same tiresome mantra on CQN.

     

     

    Were you mention “change”………I see “attack” Celtic.

     

     

    If you wish to distance youself to all things Celtic, why persist on here. Sow rancour ?

     

     

    Change from within or without………..what’ll work.

     

     

    I know what boycotting the club will achieve …………damage.

     

     

    ps What was it that Celtic *had* ?

  6. The pogues are blasting

     

     

    The sunny side of the street

     

     

    Statue for big billy … Brilliant

     

     

    tommy next

  7. Team for today…..

     

     

    Gordon; Lustig, Boyata, Simunovic, Izaguirre; Brown, Bitton; Forrest, Rogic, Armstrong; Griffiths.

     

    Subs: Bailly, Ambrose, Tierney, McGregor, Mackay-Steven, Ciftci, Allan.

  8. I’d have gone Tierney ahead of Izzy and Allan ahead of Rogic (just coz I want to see what he can do for us) but overall really strong team.

  9. Good luck to all celts , on and off the pitch

     

     

    Support the foodbank

     

     

    Support the team

     

     

    Let the people sing

  10. I fought a monster today and once more I defeated the monster’s army. Although I did not escape, I survived to fight another day. It was hard. Harder today than ever before, and it gets worse every day. You see I am trapped and all I can do is resist. I know some day I will defeat this monster, but I weary at times. I think and feel that it may kill me first.

     

    The monster is shrewd. It plays with me; it humiliates me, and tortures me. I’m like a mouse in comparison to this giant, but when I repel the torture it inflicts upon me I feel ten feet tall for I know I am right. I know that I am what I am, no matter what may be inflicted upon me, and it will never change that fact.

     

    When I resist it doesn’t understand. You see it doesn’t even try to comprehend why I resist. Why don’t you give in to me it says. Give in, give in to us, the monsters army jibes. My body wants to say yes, yes, do what you want with me, I am beaten, you have beaten me, but my spirit prevails.

     

    My spirit says no, no, you cannot do what you want with me. I am not beaten, you cannot do what you want with me. I refuse to be beaten. This angers the monster. It goes mad, it brutalises me to the point of death, but it does not kill me. I often wonder why not, but each time I face it, death materialised before me. The monster keeps me naked, it feeds me, but it didn’t feed me today, because it had tried so hard to defeat me and failed, this angered it once more. You see I know why it won’t kill me.It wants me to bow before it, to admit defeat.

     

    If you don’t do as I say, I will never release you, I refuse?

     

    My body is broken and cold. I’m lonely and I need comfort. From somewhere afar I hear those familiar voices which keep me going: We are with you, son. We are with you. Don’t let them beat you.

     

    I need to hear those voices. They anger the monster. It retreats. The voices scare the devils. Sometimes I really long to hear those voices. I know if they shout louder they will scare the monster away and my suffering will be ended.

     

    I remember, and I shall never forget, how this monster took the lives of Tom Ashe, Terence MacSwiney, Michael Gaughan, Frank Stagg, and Hugh Coney, and I wonder each night what the monster and his black devils will do to me tomorrow.

     

    They always have something new. Will I overcome it? I must. Yes, I must. Tomorrow will be my seven hundred and fortieth day of torture — an eternity. Yes, tomorrow I’ll rise in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh. Yes, tomorrow I’ll fight the monster and his devils again!”

     

    Monsters do not exist, neither do devils?-Bobby Sands

  11. Proudbhoy

     

     

    Never read those words before.

     

     

    I really need to educate myself properly about such men.

     

     

    Thank you.

  12. Powerful words from a powerful man. Stood in the cell where he died. Shook hands with his son who ironically is a chef and who is also a big Celtic fan and a regular visitor to Celtic Park.

  13. THUNDER ROAD on 21ST NOVEMBER 2015 2:36 PM

     

    Proudbhoy

     

     

     

     

    No problem , he’s a fantastic writer. His short book writings from prison is well worth buying.. I pick it up every now and then and I’m still blowing away each time.

     

     

    Rythem of time is another amazing piece of writing from him.

     

     

    I fought the monster is powerful , we all have our demons and monsters , each day is a victory. Keep the faith

  14. BIG-CUP-WINNERS

     

     

    What was a failure, what action ?

     

     

    Well, for starters, petitions. And pointed questions at AGM’s. Those questions accompanied by a majority of fans who are then routinely ignored because Dermot Desmond is the power broker. Have you never attended an AGM and saw this happen?

     

     

    The only thing that people actually do is to repeat the same tiresome mantra on CQN.

     

     

    Clearly the ‘tiresome’ part is subjective, but don’t let the fact that a discussion forum on matters Celtic is harbouring discussion get in your way.

     

     

    Were you mention “change”………I see “attack” Celtic.

     

     

    The Celtic board and Celtic are two separate things. Dermot Desmond and Peter Lawwell are not Celtic. However, if you conflate objecting to the Celtic board being comprised of Tories and rogues who have conspired to hurt the poorest and most vulnerable in society with an attack on Celtic, then I’d respectfully suggest you need to reassess your position.

     

     

    If you wish to distance youself to all things Celtic, why persist on here. Sow rancour ?

     

     

    Firstly, your point is a logic error. And also the same logic employed by racists up and down the country: “If you think this country is rubbish, why don’t you leave?”. James McClean’s treatment springs to mind “Won’t wear the poppy but will accept the British pound!”. It’s a nonsensical argument to make. I am allowed to be a Celtic fan and dissenter. ‘My way or the highway” is an extremely corrosive viewpoint.

     

     

    I am NOT suggesting you are a racist BTW. I’m highlighting the flawed logic. Ultimately we’re on the same side and want the best for Celtic. I’m not interested in ad hominem insults, you’re entitled to a differing viewpoint to me – I’m trying to highlight the issue I have with your accusation toward me.

     

     

    More to the point, a boycott is *not* the same thing as saying “I no longer support Celtic”, rather it’s my way of saying the club are valuable enough to me that I want it to as good as it can be. Sometimes the methods of making that happen involve NOT towing the party line. Or are you suggesting that the Celtic fans who took part in the bhoycott the board campaign that brought about the downfall of the old board were attacking Celtic too?

     

     

    Change from within or without………..what’ll work.

     

     

    In my lifetime I’ve saw two approaches. Only one has worked.

     

     

    I know what boycotting the club will achieve …………damage.

     

     

    Short term view vs long term view in my opinion. I’d rather Celtic were cash poor and ethics rich than the current situation that sees us comfortably off with board members only too happy to dance on the backs of the poor.

     

     

    ps What was it that Celtic *had* ?

     

     

    You don’t know the ideals that Celtic were founded on? To help the poorest and most vulnerable? To protect the people least able to help themselves regardless of religion or ethnicity? A foundation based on equality and care? These are values that the current board certainly do not echo. No living wage, a board member voting in favour of tax credit cuts that target and hurt the poorest in society, a board that labelled Celtic fans as racist for having the audacity to object to ‘Lord’ Livingston.

     

     

    From Michael Davitt to ‘Lord’ Livingston. That illustrates what we had vs what we have now better than I ever could.

     

     

    /p

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