I didn’t see Ian Bankier’s performance today, but I watched his predecessor John Reid a few times. John wasn’t liked by a significant body of the support, largely for professional reasons (his role in government), but when he got on his feet to address Celtic supporters, he had an intuitive feel for what to say. No one ever needed to script him.
Ian Livingston has received a lot of criticism since voting with the government in the recent Tax Credits bill. I’d heard the nature of some of what was written online included reference to his background – appalling, without question. Nor would it surprise you or me, we’ve been online long enough to see just about everything, including those who troll others on account of their background or identity. Often with Celtic-related targets.
We are a plural club, with people from Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, and for all I know, other backgrounds, on our board, all these and more in our dressing room, and among our support. I’m proud of this. We are often caricatured as an exclusively Irish-diaspora club but few in the UK can claim such an ethnic panorama.
A club of immigrants founded 127 years ago has continued to attract new immigrants ever since. It’s worthwhile reminding ourselves of this, it should continue to be a part of our forward strategy. What correlates with this is that anyone with a prejudice will find a target at Celtic – such is the diversity of our club. Celtic fans, players and officials have been targets like this for a very long time.
Was Ian Livingston right to vote with the government on Tax Credits? No. I haven’t considered the policy’s economic merits (first pass suggested it had none) but I believe his voice should have been raised against the policy. The expectations of being a representative of Celtic, not just a board member, are weighty.
Ian Bankier could have read all inappropriate online comment referring to Ian Livingston’s background immediately before today’s AGM, but that forum was not the place to mark anyone’s card. The intuitive feel John Reid had on these occasions was missing today. Go complain about such comment to the appropriate authorities, or to whatever online facilities hosted the comments, tell Ian Livingston ‘You’ll never walk alone’ in a private moment, but address shareholders and Celtic fans on matters appropriate to them.
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Lionsroar67@9.03
Not much of a requirement for caviar and truffles at the old food bank
HH
Morning all.
Brilliant down here. Great day for football.
I read what you wrote last night, Paul67. Can’t really disagree with anything. I would add that, if anyone did write “criminally racist” abuse on social media about Ian Livingstone, they have no right to call themselves Celtic supporters. They sully our good name.
TD67
Enjoy the prawn sandwiches… And let Bankier know he got it wrong.
Oh, I am about to go to the shops. Can I ask if the foodbank collection is also being made in Janefield Street? Is there anything that is particularly wanted?
Proud bhoy
I pointed out last night that it would put £1 onto each season ticket to fund the living wage at celtic park.
Bankiebhoy
Well said. If I was a right winger I’d be supporting a different team. The club has fundamental values – in other words political beliefs….
Lionsroar67@9.03
Ps
Let them eat cake.
We know how that one turned out. Here’s hoping
Hypocrisy indeed…to claim the benefits of an inclusive club, so that you can impose your ideological beliefs on poor people.
Is that the kind of people we want running Celtic?
The Celtic aristocracy look down their noses at the people who fund the club….really!
Hatred of the poor and weakest in society….that’s despicable.
HH
Cults…………………
Cheers!
( sure yer no’ a hun?)
;)
HH.
What a Bankier! Not much else to say really.
HH
CRC
Wasn’t there yesterday so I guess any opinion expressed needs to be qualified.
However, one of the core objectives of the AGM is for the board to justify their performance to the shareholders – not for the support to justify itself to the board.
Ii would appear that Bankier gets that fundamentally wrong whenever he occasionally opens his disdainful mouth.
Hopefully, he will get the message and retire to the boolin’ club.
PROUDBHOY on 21ST NOVEMBER 2015 9:31 AM
TD67
You have already stated you will be in the board room today with your brother .
Of course you won’t be seen to be taking part in a green brigade initative.
havent seen your perfect Peter or lord livi standing collecting bags of food for the poor and delivering it.
More than a board… Naw Defo not.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/bankier-livingston-and-most-plural-club-in-uk/comment-page-8/#comment-2722315G
Yes your right I’ll be there as my brothers guest and I’m looking forward to it, and no I won’t be taking pat in the green brigade charity high jack, and what ever Peter Lawwell and Lord Livingstone do for charity is there business and nothing to do with me, same as what I do for my charities is my business, and I’ll repeat, this charity has been high jacked, by politics, I’m not into that kind of stuff.
PROUDBHOY. Fella big Peter was at Parkhead recently( late evening) to wish everyone who was sleeping out overnight for charity well.He also donated a £1,000 out of his own pocket now dont give me the well he could afford it nonsense as there are many who could afford to give and didnt.For meit shows the big guy has a good heart. H.H.
TONYDONNELLY67 on 21ST NOVEMBER 2015 8:56 AM
I give regularly to the food bank it’s a great cause, but the hidden agenda ran one today will unfortunately get nothing from me, it’s high jacked as it comes with signing a petition, to me? Well that’s not charity, it’s the Celtic Trust/ Green Brigade political movement, I do charities and Celtic, NOT POLITICS.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
You don’t do politics??? Did you not say a while back that you were a member of the committee that run Labour Club in Castlemilk? If so, you had to be a member of the Cathcart Constituency Labour Party to be an ordinary member of the club never mind a committee member. Back then the Cathcart Labour Party was definitely into politics. I know because I was in it and an active member of the local branch that held it’s members’ meetings in the club.
Sorry TD, you might want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that everything’s fine and dandy at CP. To me, the unreconstructed capitalist thatcherite bastards on the board have ripped the heart and soul from the club I followed for over fifty years. I used sing “we don’t care if we win lose or draw”. Now I just don’t care.
Back to occasional lurk.
I never thought id see the day, that Celtic would employ Tories and nasty wee businessmen to insult Celtic supporters.
Yet, not a peep about how Neil Lennon got treated.
HH
tonydonnelly67 on 21st November 2015 9:50 am
So anyway Tony, what about that foodbank collection? Do you think it’s been hijacked by politics. I don’t think I’ve read your opinion on it yet.
Bankierbhoy
Not even your namesake :-) could turn me in that direction….
Good Morning.
By the time most readers get to the end of this post I expect that they will fully, and perhaps heatedly, disagree with me and my opinions.
If so, that is fair enough, understandable, to be expected and so on. I would sincerely hope that no one will fall out with me because I write what I believe.
The blackest day in Celtic’s most recent history was the day that Fregus McCann announced that he was going to convert Celtic Football and Athletic Club into a PLC by selling shares in the club to the fans.
Oh, I know the joy and exuberation that was felt by Brendan Sweeney, Matt McGlone and others when the announcement was made that “The rebels had won” but I recall a feeling of huge unease. That feeling did not come about because I did not believe in the genuiness of those rebels, or in the vision of Fergus or in the need to remove the old board — for whom I had absolutely no time at all.
No, my concenrn was always about the “what next?” and by “what next” I didn’t mean the rebuilding of the stadium or the team or whatever but about the “ownership” of Celtic and the control of where the club – as a social club, a means of bringing people together with a common aim and as a football club – would and could go.
The selling of the shares via the flotation was always a way of getting Fergus his money – and no more. It was not a way of enfranchising every supporter and giving them a say in the running of the club. Fergus was selling all the fans a share in the notion of Celtic FC in return for hard cash – he was not selling them a say in the club because that was always going to belong to whoever bought up the most shares in Celtic and there was never ever going to be a position where all fans had a single share or even a similar amount of shares and so an equal voice.
PLC’s don’t work like that.
For me, Fergus — and let’s remind ourselves that this was the same Fergus who was widely booed at Celtic Park on a flag day and who talked David Ginola out of signing for Celtic when he had already posed with the scarf above his head for signing photographs – in selling shares was not looking after Celtic or its spirit but was looking after Fergus.
That does not make him a bad person nor am I saying that he was bad for Celtic at the time of his arrival. What I am saying is that his chosen method of exit was, and will prove to be, a complete, unmitigated and total disaster for every Celtic fan.
Fergus may have on occasion stood up for Celtic and their fans and been vocal in his disdain for those whom he saw as opponents of Celtic and their ethos. However, by going down the share route he was ensuring that the club would be controlled in future, not by those who most adhered to that ethos, but by those who could best position themselves in the stock market and in the business of buying Celtic shares.
Whether they wished to continue with the ethos of the club would be secondary. Or to put it another way, the interpretation of how to implement that ethos on a day to day basis would be determined by the few and not by the many. That was always going to lead to conflict in my opinion – and if handled wrongly could – and will – lead to a parting of the ways.
In many foreign clubs, the chief officers of the clubs are elected for good or bad. They put themselves up for election, state their policies, where they want to take the club and present their business case. The members then vote for them or they don’t.
At Celtic, the chief officers are appointed — with the ordinary fan — many of whom are well educated, have business, community, educational, PR and football experience and skills they could bring to the party — having no say whatsoever.
Many foreign clubs, such as Athletic Bilbao, have some deep seated political and social policies. A potential president or chairman, of all or no political persuasion, can stand on a platform whereby he says openly that he or she will look to change those policies or implement them by doing this or that. The members then vote that official in or out of office based on his or her stated poicies and most importantly their ability to persuade and then deliver.
At Celtic, the board – the board elected at the behest of a small number of shareholders – decide on what policies to follow and effectively announce what the policy of the club will be on any given topic, despite most people in the room voting to the contrary.
These are just two examples of what can and will happen with a PLC set up.
I never bought any shares from Fergus as I didn’t believe in the model. I still don’t believe.
The very set up of an AGM shows you a stage or dias from where those who run the club sit on a raised platform, and the ordinary shareholder sits in a lower position or even a different room.
Before each motion is even debated, the company secretary ( and let me say that the Celtic PLC Co Sec is a very very nice guy, a huge Celtic fan, and who genuinely wants the best for the club ) will have counted the block of votes that the board controls and can tell you exactly how each and every vote is going to pan out to within two decimal places.
The very set up and running of an AGM is as clear a marker as you will ever see of “us” and “them”. It is not, and never will be, an inclusive meeting or an open forum. Anyone who tells you different is lying to you. They may not recognise they are lying but the practical effect of telling you different is to mislead you.
Now, I have no doubt that the board members of the current PLC are Celtic fans. I have no doubt that they believe that Celtic is a club that is open to all. However, the fact is that Celtic is a club whose entire destiny and future is controlled by the wallet and ambition of a few very rich people as opposed to the will of the majority of fans.
Many of those people have been in office for many years and by this time their opinions are ingrained, unchallenged, habitual and formulaic. They may not mean them to be, but the fact is they are institutionalised, complacent, fat, lazy, unambitious, risk averse and most of all – completely secure, unaffected and disconected from and by the views, opinions and beliefs of the majority of so called “members”.
Democracy is a stranger in a PLC and always will be.
Celtic, in terms of being a PLC, is a very very well run club. It is financially strong, stable and has many good aspects to its business.
However, in many key areas it fails and falls below the standards that would be tolerated and accepted by other businesses or other business models.
It does not operate to capacity: It has a record of buying in stock that it sells for a loss – balanced by stock it sells at a huge profit: It fails to communicate with its core customer base: It has not fully embraced or expanded as it should via the internet: Its broadcasting vision ( something that Fergus was very keen on to the extent he resisted all approaches from Sky re a broadcasting partnership ) is virtually non existent.
Contrast and compare the Entrepreneurial advances of Celtic under Fergus McCann to the conservative balancing of the books under Peter Lawwell. Those are two extremes of business vision with neither being sustainable or correct in the longer term and no business will succeed without either the books being balanced over a period or the business taking calculated risks in terms of expansion and progression of its core business — in this instance the football team.
Irrespective of how good or bad the commercial operations may be in the course of any given season – those same policies, management practices, failures or successes could have been achieved and implemented under a different business model. Had they done so, the the ordinary fan would have had a far greater say in being able to determine whether the board carry on down the same road or whether they should change tack.
As it is, you have no say: no influence: no voice: – whether you hold a share certificate or don’t.
In short, irrespective of all the good that he did for Celtic, at the end of the day, consciously or unconsciously ( take your pick as it matters not a jot ) Fergus McCann threw each and every Celtic supporter under the bus the day he announced a share issue as opposed to exiting by means of another model.
Many will not like that statement but it is unpalatably true.
For Bankier, Lawwell, Desmond, Livingstone or whoever substitue Kelly, White, Grant, Farrell and so on.
The rebels didn’t win – because not all the rebels were rebels in the true sense of the word.
Should Celtic Football Club continue on it’s current course then it will eventually march itself into oblivion.
If it is to become no more than a business PLC which operates some kind of a football team in a modern electronic 21st century market place then it will fall on its arse and rightly so as the generations of consumers to come will tune in to better run models via their TV’s, tablets, smartphones and cheap flights that can get you to a football ground or give you the latest information quicker than a bus will take you from Montrose to Celtic Park.
If Celtic wish to thrive and move forward by encouraging and embracing a strongly held and marketable sense of community and a series of values which many Celtic fans embrace from their earliest days, or which they recognise and acquire along life’s journey, then they have to ditch the coprporate PLC model and raison d’etre and wake up to the fact that such a model — such an attitude — is misplaced and misguided and has no long term future at all.
In the absence of inclusion and in the face of undisguised corporeal arrogance, and unquestionable social ignorance, many Celtic fans are no more than people with some spare time in which to spend their money on the pastime of their choice.
The days when Celtic Football Club was seen by many to attract and represent an all inclusive community which could provide a historical moral and social compass for generations of people will be a thing of the past within the decade.
The legacy of Fergus McCann will be a large tin shed in the east end of Glasgow where people go to watch speedway, or drone races, or fly hoverboards … or whatever the guy who owns the shed can persuade you to pay money for and which he and his board can make the best financial returns.
And if you have a share certificate – you might get 10% off the price of admission – but you will still have to pay top dollar for a second rate burger.
Not for the first time I can’t access CQN through Chrome with Adblocker Plus. But I can through MS Edge with pop ups, ads and videos all over the place.
I know that CQN costs a great deal to run. But I’ve seen several posts from folk visiting less often because of the difficulties and annoyance of advertising. There’s a balance to be achieved here I think.
Cults………..
:)))))
Surprisingly ,yer the only wan to sling that wan at me!
……since his arrival I’ve seriously considered a name change, but thankfully the technical process involved precludes yours truly!
HH
EpsilonMinus CSC
TBJ SAYS WEE OSCAR KNOX IS IN HEAVEN WITH THE ANGELS on 21ST NOVEMBER 2015 9:41 AM
Proud bhoy
—
Livingstone would be looking to tax that £1
I think most of us are angry at Bankier and Livingstone and as we live in a democracy we can show that at matches by demanding they are removed from the board ( by chanting and by banners ).However,I feel it is wrong to tar the whole board with the same stick many on CQN it seems to me think they could run our great club better than the current board.Now while there are some very clever folk on CQN no doubt, how many really have the knowledge and expertise to run such a large company very few I would guess.One thing from yesterdays AGM that strikes me is that it has transferred the attention off EBTs and the Rangers and the MSM are happy about that so lets not dwell on the AGM but get back to seeing justice is done at Ibrokes.H.H.
My friends in Celtic,
Back to the footie today. Good.
Re the AGM : My opinion does not matter to many, but as this is still a place that free speech is allowed, I will air my opinion.
It matters not what the Celtic Board would have said at the AGM it would never be enough for some on here. It would always be seen as detrimential to some of our idealists.
Our club should not be used as a political football to solve all of society’s unjustness. I get the impression that the Living Wage is used as a stick to beat us with. Point scoring if you like.
This is not 1887. Professional football is a business. I believe our club via donations and via the Celtic Foundation give more to charity than any other club in Scotland. Possibly more than any business in Scotland.
Actions speak louder than words.
I would also like to see the same zeal of our idealists to lobby their employers to pay the LW. To lobby our political leaders to use funding to help eliminate the requirement for foodbanks and to assist the working poor.
Meanwhile we get back to our core reason for existance. Football.
HH.
BRTH
Absolutely nailed it. Bravo!
BRT & H
Wow!
JJ
We DO have a game today, don`t we?
JJ
Big Mike suing the baddies again.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo…_campaign=1490ig
This is serious s**t , could have significant impact on their AGM plans and might go a long way to explain Park coming back on Board last week.
Subtle Kremlinoligists might see patterns emerging pointing to Dave King being introduced to the underside of the number 49 to Bloomfontein sooner rather than later.
This is much more entertaining than bumping our gums about a chairman who lacks a certain elan in PR.
Expect shares in Lyons Maid and Rowntrees to pick up smartly in Monday morning trading, see if they don’t.
BRTH,
Interesting take on things. Personally, I think flotation was the right course of action in the 1990s. But undoubtedly we do now face a problem not dissimilar to the one we had under the Kellys Whites etc:
Basically, the board appear divorced from, and unanswerable to, the fans.
BRTH,
If you’re correct in your diagnosis (and even more worryingly in your prognosis), what can be done NOW?
brogan…
Superb contribution and 100% correct.
I appreciate Fergus saving Celtic but as you say it was a heavy price to pay.
I met Fergus in a hotel one day ( Golfview Nairn) we were both about to take a swim in an empty pool. I said hello and told him I was a Celtic fan. He virtually ignored me. I was very unimpressed by him as a person.
CQN Coupon:
AWATR: Birmingham
BT: Bristol Rovers
GL2: Millwall
Jobo: Swansea
LB: Hearts
PF: Peterborough
Pog: Brentford
TTT: Plymouth
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
I have to say I’m deeply, deeply unhappy at both the AGM and the direction Celtic are going.
We’re a plural club? Open to anyone? Does that extend to Jim Torbett? Craig Whyte? Just exactly where do we draw the line? The truth is that the ‘the most plural club’ stuff is trotted out not when we want to represent the most vulnerable, but when we want to tolerate and accept the very worst elements of society. ‘Lord’ Livingston for example. A man who’s partly responsible for the fact we NEED the food bank collections at Celtic Park. A man that’s helped oversee a society where having full time job is so poorly rewarded that people can’t afford to eat anymore. Plural? We’re not a plural club – we’re an *elitist* club. Celtic represent the power base, the 1%. The merciless, shameless toffs that view you and I as beneath them. Nothing more. Call it as it is – the board are not part of the underclass, they’re part of the ruling class, part of the problem.
John Reid was a scumbag – The reports of his sexual harassment of Dawn Primarily should have been enough to preclude him from coming within a mile of club. The dawn raids he staged should have forever barred him from entry to Celtic Park. Add to that his happy acceptance of freebies from Celtic (look at his old register of interests from Parliament) when he was more than able to pay his pay saw him as one of the least appropriate members of the Celtic board.
At least the AGM batted down any thoughts we might have of being ‘More than just a club’. Minimum wage, not in the ‘interests of the business’? The only way we’re more than club is that we’re a club and part of the wider problem society face – employers paying people a wage that can’t sustain them. We’re more than club because we’re part of the misery machine, the machine that *promotes* poverty and inequality. In that respect Bankier and Livingston are right at home. Livingston has the young and working age tortured whilst the bold Dermot has the elderly sorted in his ‘Care’ homes. There’s a price for everything huh?
I never though in my lifetime I’d see Celtic become the Unionist, wealthy elitist club. That moniker, and our board members would be far better suited to Rangers than Celtic. I despise them, and everything they stand for.
For my part? Celtic shares are gone. A shame, as my current batch were left to me by my late father. And whilst these guys hold the reigns of power, I’m boycotting Celtic Park. I may go watch Celtic at other grounds, but I’ll not be giving a penny to the reptiles that run OUR club.
/p
*Dawn PRIMAROLO – Autocorrect on an iDevice is an unforgiving tool.
Bankiebhoy ( that’s better!)
It was an open goal – apologies.. Haha
Chaps –
Celtic is nothing without the fans, and we are Celtic.
The (often) sleekit(s) who mischievouly rabble-rouse for shambolic chaos and pitch-fork diplomacy are more often than not – doing the work of our enemies.
It’s in our DNA to engage in dialogue and show by example what can be done and should be done – this includes helping those at the Club, including the Board btw.
An argument well-made and well-presented has an authenticity that cannot be ignored.
Let the huns bay for blood,
……………that’s what the only thing they are guid at.
HH.
Celtic at the board level, has become a vehicle for personal wealth and the political morals of the gutter.
There can be nothing worse, than the disgrace of a millionaire Tory Lord who wants to hurt the poorest in society. That truly is warped thinking.
A Tory Lord who wants to force his ideological hatred on the poorest and weakest, while the rest of the nasty wee businessmen clique clap like seals.
Shame on them.
HH
Just in to say……….
____________________
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Oscar Knox, MacKenzie Furniss and anyone else who fights Neuroblastoma on 21st November 2015 9:55 am –
____________________________________________________
Thank you fella.
…..bye……
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Oscar Knox, MacKenzie Furniss and anyone else who fights Neuroblastoma on 21st November 2015 9:55 am
Joe Filippis Haircut on 21st November 2015 10:05 am –
Even as a strong Fergus fan, I have to admit that I have long been uneasy about the whole set up.
Hold up protest banners at games if you like.
They will simply laugh at you.
Their smiles will vanish if you prootest be being absent.
See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/bankier-livingston-and-most-plural-club-in-uk/comment-page-9/#comments
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