Bayer Leverkusen v Celtic, Live updates
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B2B B78
R4 was worse it went thro all teams mentioning us last to say we’ were put out’. Tottinghams defeat to a club
younger than Sevco in a weaker tourney was reported,along with nooklub.i thought we dropped to playoff.
HH
“We didn’t finish the game off in the way that we could have. But credit to the players, Leverkusen are a fantastic team and we came to their backyard and gave them a game.”
Ange Postecoglou on #B04CEL.
Tough result to take — we had the game where we wanted it and yet we lost.
When we clicked we looked to have moved up a gear and put them on the back foot.
Then the doubt set in and the confidence drained away and the lazy thinking took over.
We have made huge progress but the faults remain — ready to reappear when the going gets tough.
BL are not a quality side — very effective but will not make the BL top 4 this season. The way we put then on the back foot tells you how good they are — but that was the exception as our fragility gave them chance after chance.
Again the MF was not up to the challenge — half the time good going on great / half the time sloppy going on youth team comedy act.
NB had a huge game but started slow and wasteful and ended up not being able to finish a simple pass to KF / tonight he really summed up where we are — half way through the AP coaching manual with the sports psychology section to come.
Our ability to play ourselves into trouble is the glass jaw that gives every full time team a puncher’s chance against us.
Sore one to take — causing problems to good teams but still giving up chance after chance.
Desperately need new blood in January — 4 first team players should be the target.
Mix and match from the gaps in the team and squad.
Quality leftback if LS is not up to it.
Quality CB — CJ is not the complete answer.
DM — we still have a VW sized hole in the squad never mind the team.
AM — more complete player required / an ability to tackle would be a godsend.
CF — KF can’t do it all on his own.
Onwards and upwards — Sunday should be a good game.
The MJ bus is now deserted and the JMcC bus has been cancelled — he is this seasons SD.
Has the look of someone who plays his X-Box to 5 in the morning all too often.
BB- did he get asked about managing the game? I really like the big guy, and the improvement in a few months is remarkable, but putting 2 wingers on when 2-1 up is questionable IMO
I enjoyed the game tonight ,but unfortunately it showed us that we are still short of quality
Ralston am afraid just not have the ability to compete at this level,I love his desire and commitment but SPL is his level .
Roll on the next transfer window ,Ange will do his job HH
Hope more are seeing Turnbull for what he is.A talented,lazy player with suspect stamina.Calmac suffering trying to do it all,while he is invisible,or floating around on the periphery.Talented,but lacking.
No use criticizing a guy like Juranovic,getting played LB when he is a RB.
TURKEYBHOY on 25TH NOVEMBER 2021 11:48 PM
Calmac put in a poor performance tonight , in a season of consistently good performances . Turnbull put in a mediocre performance tonight in a season of mediocre and sometimes poor performances .
As for Juranovic , we are missing a trick by not playing him at right back .
Several upgrades needed before we can compete on the European as well as the domestic front .
I enjoyed the game tonight for 82 minutes, then it was the usual Celtic – couldn’t manage the game. Unfortunately, on this occasion, much as I like Ange, I blame his substitutions. The players who came on were not good enough. I hope Ange learns from this and I’m sure he shall.
HH
“Ange’s substitutions cost us the game”
Completely agree.
Good for Ange.
He’s looking at the bigger picture.
I think Ange knew we’d likely not win the game when he brought on the B-list with 15 minutes still to play.
The drop off in performance at the top of the pitch was staggering.
He still did it.
He knows who his match winners are.
And he knows how long the season will be.
He won’t put our match winners through the wringer for some momentary glory.
I think our manager sent some powerful messages tonight.
The league is the priority.
To the board – this is what I’m working with. Support me.
I think he is a smart bloke.
What do we need?
IMHO,
A pacy striker
A VERY good midfielder
A left full back
Starfelt fit
Giakoumakis fit
Julienne fit
Forrest fitter
Taylor recovered
Barkas, Ajeti, probably Bolingoli, possibly Soro to move on.
Decent performance.
Work to do.
Onward to Sunday.
Oh and Rogic fit of course.
I think the events tonight pretty much showed why Celtic can no longer compete in the Europa League never mind the Champions League. We are playing with one hand tied behind our back given the lack of quality in the team for playing at this level and this is as often as not compounded by our better players (theoretically) performing poorly, notably and especially last night Calmac and Turnbull. I thought of the midfield trio Bitton had the best game of the three but he has his limitations at this level. Ultimately none of the three could really open up the Leverkusen defense enough.
The simple facts are:
1. LK have on the whole better players than Celtic – enough that it matters – and play the same type of football but play it better – better movement off the ball and more accurate passing. They are not a great European team by any means but they are better than this Celtic team.
2. LK play in a more competitive league – Celtic never meet teams at this level in Scotland but I’m sure LK meet teams like Celtic fairly regularly in the Bundislega.
3. All of Celtic’s substitutions were players who have not been playing well even in the Scottish competitions so how could they be expected to do a job against Leverkusen?. We really need to invest if we are to be a European time.
4. I think Ange has to take some of the responsibility here – two wingers and a CF who haven’t been playing or haven’t been playing well recently when I think we needed to shore things up. None of the three made even a slight dent in proceedings and James McCarthy too for that matter. He is still not ready to influence games in Scotland so how could he be expected to influence a game against a decent Bundislega team? Our squad is still pretty shallow and it’s the Board’s lack of ambition that determines our poor performances in Europe.
CELTIC40ME
“Only five teams out of 32 have scored more goals than us
Improving defensively.
Encouraging signs”
Only 31 teams out of 32 have conceded fewer goals than us.
Same as last season.
Where’s the defensive improvement? We’re still a sieve. We still lose 3 goals a game away to any half decent European team.
Turnbull is a Motherwell player who can’t get the space in Celtic’s midfield to do what he’s good at, firing off long distance diagonals for Kyogo, or Jota, to run onto, or scoring the occasional scorcher, there is no workhorse stuff being done, was Rogic the workhorse? I must’ve missed that.
In years gone by, we had MacLeod doing all the workhorse stuff to make the Maestro into the magnificent player that he was.
But. MacLeod leaves for Dortmund, leaving Maestro with no workhorse by his side, and it didn’t work out very well.
What was the thinking behind that?
That maybe Grant, would replace MacLeod?
More unthinking cheap skating to reduce the quality of the team?
Or a manager who only knew one way to play?
Take a player like Turnbull, if he was in Josés team, he’d be a priceless star by now.
José would’ve played the bus – long ball – goal, type of system, with Turnbull not crossing the halfway line, but laying off unplayable diagonals, a Pirlo, if you like.
When Luigi was manager, he was going to make John Collins our captain, with a young Gary Holt, and a Nigerian ball winner Luigi had identified and was going to WC 1994 to view some other Nigerians that he seemed to fancy, as well as the ball winner either side of JC, and Maestro was moving back to be a front sweeper, releasing, Turnbull type diagonals, as he wasn’t mobile enough to go box to box anymore, that’s what Luigi said in his exclusive interview in Evening Times.
Peter Grant wasn’t mentioned in Luigi’s plans, neither was, Bonner, Boyd, Nicholas, and a few others.
Soon after this interview, the anti-Macari clique in the Celtic dressing room, put the tools away, to get Macari the sack!
Maybe Luigi was testing the waters to see how the clique would react?
He wasn’t long in finding out!
These players in the clique, Bonner, Boyd, Grant, Maestro, Nicholas, should’ve been sacked sine die, from Celtic FC after that, but the opposite happened.
Macari was sacked, and these players, Bonner, Boyd, Grant, Maestro, Nicholas, were given new contracts, going on to lose the next 3 league titles, handing Rangers 9 in a row.
Imagine what would’ve happened if, Fergus had done what he agreed to do with the,
“The Rebel Consortium” and backed the crafty, and shrewd Macari, who wouldn’t have fallen into the bullsh*t trap of, playing the Celtic Way, but would’ve sufficiently tooled up and, provided more than a few shocks along the way. Was McCann wary of Macari, because he emerged from Jock Stein’s dressing room, and might’ve been just too wily for McCann?
So, if true,it could be argued that McCann’s insecurity about himself, gifted Rangers 3 titles?
Fergus McCann, controversially, took control of the club in 1994, and instead of uniting the club and moving it forward, McCann created new factions, with a fracture right down the middle of what was known as,
“The Rebel Consortium” who were delighted to save Celtic from oblivion, but McCann moved the goalposts at the last minute (was this a DD prompt?) or was McCann simply being deceitful re: the handover of the club to Celtic supporters after the five year rebuild, but instead of being straight as to how the land now lay, he blamed others as not ponying up?
This was a veiled stab at Brian Dempsey, whom McCann was 100% paranoid about, and McCann, a few years later, banned former Irish PM, Bertie Ahern, from attending the title clincher of 1998, v St Johnstone, were Celtic won 2-0, to stop a hun 10 in a row, Bertie Ahern was invited to a hospitality box owned by, Brian Dempsey.
So the Irish PM was banned because of McCann’s paranoia?
ffs!
This was paranoia off the radar.
This prompted Brian Dempsey to appear on Sunday Scotsport, and smash the smear campaign against him, because McCann was lying about Dempsey not having the money.
Dempsey appeared with a Bank of Ireland account as evidence, featuring an account in the names of, Brian Dempsey, John Keane, with almost £7 million ready to go on, March 4th 1994, to be invested into the Celtic rebuilding plans, by Dempsey and Keane, but Dempsey stressed that,
“Fergus has moved the goalposts, he has chosen to mislead an awful lot of people, and has now renaged on his promise, to give ownership of Celtic FC in May 1999, to the Celtic support, that is what they were promised, and I’m afraid that I’ll have no part in an attempt to mislead the Celtic support. He (Fergus) has chosen to go public about this, and he should know this, that I too, will go public!”
After Dempsey’s appearance on Sunday Scotsport, McCann responded in, The Celtic View, the following Wednesday, where McCann had a centre page spread, bleating about,
“Beware of wolves in sheep clothing”, blah, blah, etc, a reference to, Brian Dempsey, and, Gerry McNee, both of whom, McCann was 100% paranoid about (wee man syndrome?), as they both had McCann’s number, note not a reference to any of the entire media circus in Scotland was made in McCann’s tantrum in, The Celtic View, except McNee, because, McNee, and only McNee, knew more about Celtic, than Celtic knew about themselves.
Gerry McNee tried to tell Celtic fans, what was happening to their club, but unthinking fans continued to judge McNee, by his altercation with Billy McNeill, over a decade before, an episode that both McNee and McNeill, got over and continued their professional relationships away from the always judgemental eyes of the public, McNee, more than a decade later was trying to inform Celtic supporters of what was happening to Celtic, of what was happening to their club, why it was happening, and who was making it happen, but Celtic fans were incapable of applying any rational to McNee’s information, buying McCann’s tantrum in, The Celtic View, showing themselves up as easily mugged mugs, and they are still the same to this day, locked out of their club almost 30 years later, refused to listen to anyone who doesn’t think like them, and missed out on crucial information, that if digested properly through open, and rational supporters minds, might have utterly changed the football landscape, with different leadership of Celtic, after McCann had left, with club being in the controlling hands of a lorry load of volunteers, no sly billionaires helping hun HMRC fraud.
And the fans are still being mugged off, 30 years later.
Just think about that.
paranoia off the radar.
Good Morning Celts,
BACK TO BASICS – GLASS HALF FULL @ 1:08 AM,
Got to agree…
… that’s the way I see it. Ange’s got his system of playing and he sticks with it.
It’s a matter of getting players to play the system better and getting better players to fit in where necessary.
Most can see what we need and where we are lacking.
Ange would have known his front three’s performance levels, when they were tailing off. The fact he can’t bring on players to close off the game is not down to him.
Giokoumakis for instance could have done us a turn.
We have limited resources, making the most of them is the smart approach.
We have a pragmatic Manager. If Forrest gets injured again or Jota or Kyogo have to miss crucial matches, those critising would be the first to ask why our players are always sick-notes.
We are where we are, considering how we were run for the three years before Ange came, this is a minor miracle.
Which brings me to another point.
I don’t normally like comment on this forum’s main obsession but look at Rangers!?
We see article after article, comment after comment on how poor they are and how badly they are run.
They are four points ahead of us in the league and qualified for the Europa after Christmas.
We seem to forget football is a results game and not an excuse game.
We’ve spent so many seasons having our expectations managed and listening to a list of lame excuses that we have bought into this nonsense.
Yes, Rangers are a financial basket case, we know that, Rangers are feeling there way at this level, we know that, Rangers are better than us, why!?
Every time I see an article or commet on how badly Rangers are run…
…and let me digress for a moment. There was articles telling us how badly Rangers are run, how poor an appointment their new manager was.
This time last year, where was the articles dissecting Celtic’s on field and off field performance and highlighting our disfunctionality?
But one rant at a time.
Rangers lost a manager who was out performing Celtic, their DoF, quickly and professionally secured a replacement.
Do they need a pat on the back for this? No, it’s what football Clubs do.
Compare that to our managerial recruitment farce.
Less forget about the Rangers please.
They can look after themselves, it’s about time we concentrated on Celtic.
If we strengthen in January, and this will be another “Steven Fletcher v Willo Flood” window, we might do something interesting in the Conference. And the League.
Hail Hail
Morning Celts
HH
Ange is merely a symptom of the problem.
The PLC are not the problem.
The customers and their failure to use last years disaster to restructure the club are to blame.
Sympathy for Ange and his eleventh hour arrival is impressive and understandable.
But to allow that sympathy to weaken you’re resolve was an unacceptable mistake.
A mistake that looks as though even at this stage in the season that as the fantastic poster, JHB, has outlined the slick no messing of Rangers recruitment of their manager, no pantomime, no endless guessing, no naming who you’re after which stupidly sets you up for an epic embarrassment of Eddie Howe proportions that we used to think only the Kelly’s and White’s were capable of such a catastrophe.
I fear that Celtic are going to be taught a series a grave lessons.
For not allowing Rangers to die outright with no helping hand from Celtic to speed up Rangers return like PL did with his insistence on Rangers inclusion in TV deals, and lying to fans for almost a decade.
But that Celtic supporters knew they were being lied to and kept financing the liars is probably the ugliest aspect of the entire last decade.
Good, honest Celts trying to pursue justice only a handful at that.
The 53,000 customers who financially thanked Celtic PLC for utterly destroying the 10 season, are now a hemisphere away from being like the old “Best Fans In The World” of the 70’s and 80’s fans.
Today’s 53,000 are going to be looked back upon in future, as the woke leeches who killed off what was the most romantic fairytale story probably of all time.
Please Jesus forgive them.
Chairbhoy
Any suggestions as to who you stephen Fletcher’s would be then ?
For every Jota or CCV there is a good few Shane D and ‘whatever that Everton full back was called’.
Other than J league etc there is rarely value in buying players in January as we know.
So any ideas ?
Kev J
Please go and get some help. Genuinely worried about you. I am heading down to a Hotel on the west coast tonight and I am happy to stop and give you someone to talk to.
Bolingolli needs to start at left back on Sunday I think he is by far the best left back at the club,he has served his punishment for the COVID fiasco,made a scapegoat by our shower of useless directors,also Juranavic to start at right back against Aberdeen.
BURNLEY78 @ 7:31 AM,
Well a couple of thoughts.
The first one would be my main point in regard of SF v WF.
We could have secured the recruitment of either player it was the level of ambition we had that drove that decision. *
So my main point is we have to show real ambition, get quality players in early doors so the Manager and Staff can work with them and integrate them into the team.
Secondly, our recruitment of football players for over a dozen seasons has been poor, this, despite what we were told, was little to do with quality players not willing to come to Celtic, it was a dysfunctional approach to recruitment.
We have been scratching our heads and finger pointing for window after window on this site looking for “whose to blame” but hindsight has given us some perspective.
There were a number of factors in our failure.
The leaked “transfer” document, with the “high value” players gave a great insight into how flawed and amateurish our recruitment was.
The players we missed out on and failed to secure in a timely manner also shows our lack of skill and focus in this regard.
The moneyball strategy meant too many prospects and project the vast majority simply not good enough.
Of course in and off itself MB was no bad thing, our issues relate to how the strategy was run as a business venture first and foremost outwith the control of the football department.
We were not good enough at identifying or scouting real potential with quality.
We had precious, sports science and coaching resources working with players; who were unfit, not good enough, poor attitude or not managed to integrate into the team.
We know how recruitment works; identify what positions need filled, scout several suitable players, let the manager and staff choose their priorities, use football nouse to secure the signature.
It’s not a numbers game, it is difficult enough to get the right players in for the right position without introducing “game theory”,
Also a strategy for maximising players of excellent quality, in first team impact, longevity and transfer value.
Once they’ve proven themselves, get them to sign an extended contract and sell them at their peak. We did this with Stuart Armstrong.
Ange showed we can get good players in, yet again, even in the summers successful transfer window issues.
Prospects from Sheffield Wednesday and Shamrock Rovers, are they good enough? Favourite agent signings, are they good enough?
Loanees in Jota and CCV, when do you loan when do you buy?
As a football club you have to be good at this, it’s fundamental.
We seen where moneyball, our manager with an eye for a player and opportunist appointments like Nick Hammond got us.
It’s money down the drain, not only that but it takes resource and focus away from building a proper squad. It cost us the ten.
Good companies, get good people that can do a good job in.
Great companies, get great people that can do a great job in.
We need to start behaving like a great football club again.
* Back during the WF window I was happy clapping and had a feeling GS was for the off. So I defended the Board to the hilt during that window.
Others said it was austerity and it showed lack of ambition.
They were right, I was wrong, we lost the league and replaced Strachan with Mowbray, the rest is history.
Hail Hail
I agree about Bolingoli.Ridiculous to be leaving him out.He played very well in his two starts,and it means Juranovic can play in his position.This is an ongoing farce that needs sorted if we are to improve.We have a world class RB,who is being kept out by a big honest trier,who’s limitations were seriously exposed last night.
Something has to be done about the midfield.Bitton has been excellent and must stay in the team.Turnbull has been very insipid,and cannot play in the same midfield as Rogic.Calmac is running about trying to put out fires,instead of doing the job he excels at.
January will be a big window for Ange.We have the makings of a very good team on our hands.
The defeat last night was not unexpected, it’s just the manner of it that is the source of all the angst. Two one up with the clock clicking by 80 minutes and we’re thinking we can win this, even a draw would be great. Then, well, what happened happened.
On Tuesday night I watched Man City give a team containing Messi, Neymar, and Mbappe, a torrid time. PSG have weak links in defence and midfield, they also do not face teams of Man City’s quality too often, if at all, in the domestic French league. The European football food chain is quite brutal at times.
Celtic still have a number of games to play before we get to the January window. A window that is beginning to take on mythical status. At least two oven ready first team starters please PLC board. Easy to say but very challenging to actually execute.
BURNLEY78 on 25TH NOVEMBER 2021 10:39 PM
Petec
Hope you are pleased Re the rules for going to the football in Scotland. Can get back legally !
Tragic to see all these athletes and young footballers suddenly developing heart conditions and similar issues so suddenly. It must only be a matter of time before someone asks the obvious question.
###
Without doubt it’s caused by the Covid vaccine . It’s common sense and stands to reason.
Personally I blame the Catholic Church.
Both Popes urged their flock to have the vaccine.
It’s all part of a huge conspiracy.
I could say more but there are black helicopters circling outside so it’s time I got into the escaped pod.
Moravcik67
@Moravcik67_
·
10h
2. Here’s who we could play
A – Maccabi Tel-Aviv
B – Partizan Belgrade, Anorthosis Famagusta or Flora Tallinn
C – Bodo Glimt or Roma
D – Randers or Jablonec
E – Slavia Prague or Union Berlin
F – Slovan Bratislava or PAOK
G – Spurs or Vitesse
H – Basel or Qarabag
Disappointing and frustrating result last night. It would have been nice to win away from home in Germany.
But it’s now back to the auld claithes and cauld porridge of the Scottish league which should always have been the priority anyway.
It will be interesting to see how the Board (aka TGD) approach the transfer window.
The pace, power and technique of some of those BL players are a universe away from the anti-football we see in park the bus Scotland. Got to take some solace for the fact that much of our first team held their own against them for large parts of the game. But as a barometer of progress it tells me :
Ralston, Welsh & Johnston have hit their domestic football ceiling. Not good enough for this level. Neither is the absent Greg Taylor.
Turnbull and Bitton just don’t have the dynamism to play at this level. Abada struggling.
We need quality to support a core of CCV, Josip, Kyogo, Hart, Jota, Forrest and possibly Callum (who was poor last night). Bring back our best LB Boli too for balance.
McCarthy looked like it rightfully got MacKay his jotters. Terrible player and along with Barkas, Ajeti (whose workrate was good) and it seems Soro, we also need to clear the decks.
Onto Sunday, where any kind of win after last night will do.
HH
Ange needs to start making some tough decisions, with team selection. As much as we all admire Ralston, Juranuvic should be starting at right back and Bolingoli at left.
Get Mcgregor back to holding midfielder until he can bring someone else in during January.
Also need another midfielder and centre.
This squad of players , as it is. Will not win the league
Last night’s collapse in the last 10 minutes …
Too many are blaming the outfield players for giving up chances.
All the while forgetting that we were giving up chances throughout the game.
Just a case that BL got lucky in the last 10 minutes and the shots went in.
Second goal was luck x 2 on their part.
Perfect timing to get the shot away and it went through the GK’s legs.
Third goal was a well taken shot that got past the GK — when earlier / similar attempts had been saved.
The starting players were just as culpable as the substitutes.
Just a case that they had more time to make up for their mistakes.
LA looked lost when he came on.
But then so did NB — but he came good after 15/20 minutes.
MJ has no confidence at the moment and his football decision making is shocking.
But we all know that and the issue now is getting the talent he has out for all to see.
Its an emotional game but the jumping on Ange’s back is quite staggering. The formation and manner of play got us into a winning position, why even consider reverting to a defensive set up – which we do so well in europe as history shows us, to try and see out the game?
The players were tiring and rather than risk injury the switches were made to maintain the shape and system. And the intensity of play. The issue is that unfortunately the players brought on were not capable of playing to the level of those they had replaced. The fault is the players that make up the squad, that has to be utilised, not the manager. Three first team bodies in January minimum and we see the team destroy most opponents by playing in the manner we see now.
Where we want to be — CMcG is a squad player filling in at left sided AM / pivot.
He is not a guaranteed starter against teams in the top half of the BL.
He can’t even foul players at this level — his game is so limited.
He has built up his game year on year and he is a good player.
But he should not be considered a starter — his limitations are too big.
DT on the other hand has two years to get there.
Huge step up from SPL talent to a CL credible starter.
He has shown good promise at times — NT game against Holland for example.
Just a case that he needs to recalibrate his attitude to do the hard graft.
Mitch
C’mon: CMcG is one of the few players we have who has genuine talent.
I might concede that he’s being played out of position sometimes, but there’s no way he’s anything other than as class performer …
Celtic are showing signs of huge improvement under Ange. some of the over the top criticism towards individuals, usually young Scottish players is in my opinion out of order. We are short of a handful of players to improve the squad but when you look at what Ange inherited it will take a year at least before we see what can be called Ange’s team on the park. I still think we could win the league this season, but we will need a bit of luck on the injury front as the squad isn’t strong enough. We find it hard going in Europe when we come up against teams from one of the top 4 leagues and unfortunately the draw did us no favours this time around. The board are completely out of order in their dealings with the fans or lack of it in recent years, but during the Whyte/Kelly times things were a lot worse, they were a board who went from being in the top 3 in Europe for around 5 years in the late 60’s early 70’s to not being in the top 50 five years later. Instead of replacing the Lions with the quality street yougsters they sold off Macari, Hay, Dalglish etc and this was before Bosman and freedom of contract. Protest by all means but no boycotts please as this only weakens the team and coaching staff and quite honestly I’m pretty sure you would be playing into the hands of the anti Celtic mob both in the media and Scottish Football.
Stolen from etims.
We should have brought on the Livingston team with 10mins to go.
Will UEFA be taking any action against the huns over their apparent refusal of access to Chris Sutton because they feared their fans would attack him?
But then we would have had a few reds for industrial tackles ? Being as European refs more than not play to the rules 😜
Cannot believe some of the comments against Ange.The guy has a system that when our first eleven start is very good ,last night he took off our offensive three to save them for Sunday it also showed the money men that we need to strengthen in January.
Ange has a plan one that I will support,Ralston,Welsh Johnstone will be pool players only ,if that.HH
Asking subs who clearly lack the quality of the players they’re replacing to play the same system means there’s a drop off. That drop off cost us last night.
Ange isn’t infallible and has made mistakes that have cost us – last night can be added to his list.
Time now to focus on the league and ensure there are no repeats of Livi or Dundee Utd because we simply can’t afford any mistakes at this point. We’re entering a month of must win league games.