It doesn’t really matter to me how other people write their own history. If Queens Park claim to be the same Club as the Queen of Clubs, they are welcome to, as long as they respectfully allow me to express scepticism. Fortunately, Queens Park’s business model is not dependent on making such an outlandish claim.
A whole lot of nonsense has been written on the subject of a recently liquidated football club, “it was the holding company that was liquidated”, when it wasn’t actually a holding company, and then we have claims about advice from a “panel of the London Stock Exchange”, which was quickly withdrawn.
We are asked to believe that a football club cannot go out of business. It’s an interesting thought, not one I subscribe to, but interesting nonetheless. If you are happy with this belief, fair play to you, it doesn’t matter what anyone else believes.
I’ve met Jim Spence. He’s a guy who emerged from the Dundee Untied fanzine world and established a reputable career in the game. His affinity for United has never been hidden, nor should it be. United, as all clubs, have gone through periods of turmoil but Jim has called things as he has seen them, with his own club, and with others.
This week Jim made a comment about a football club which went into liquidation. It was more tempered than comments made by a former manager and director of the liquidated club, by the chief executive of its successor club, by all the contemporary newspaper coverage, and by the successor club’s current head of PR. Despite this, Jim has been on the receiving end of a sustained campaign by the thought police.
Jim may privately think what those at the successor club once said, but if he also wants to express those thoughts, the consequences can be acute.
He’s not alone. I know others in the media who have told me straight that they are not prepared to touch the Newco/Sameco subject, the resultant hassle is not what they got into journalism for.
Charlotte Fakes has given us a glimpse into how powerful people can manipulate and control Scotland. It has given reason to pause ahead of next year’s big decisions. The BBC and only the BBC are strong enough to stand up against bullying, you can forget the commercial media for one simple reason, this subject is the equivalent of commercial self-harm.
It wouldn’t seem like the weekend without Rangers International writing about going legal on someone or other, although I suspect they’ll be content having played to the gallery with this one and not trouble the BBC, but questions remain for the BBC, no matter what happens next.
I consume enormous volumes of BBC output every month, it is my first port of call for news, and often my last. It is one of the best aspects of British life, but if it can be intimidated like the commercial media, there is no point in it existing in the first place.
Fortify your journalists or shut the doors.
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OOPLA !
I ‘m not a big fan of international football but————-
That should be 29 May 2012
Zombies flooding the BBC with complaints about Wonders of the Solar System – because the presenter said the Earth is round.
jackie mac
Dont forget David Murray has come out in support of the SNP and Salmond,I’m sure he used to be a Tory when it suited
The BBC should report the facts…………..even the “lite entertainment” sports dept.
Too many huns with the same fan’s agenda.
Auntie – it’s time to grow a set……….
HH
IF the BBC had to “bump” J Spence, then Said J Spence took them to a tribunal for wrongful dismissal .
This could get messy for the stupid stupid ones :))
Auldheid
13:55 on
7 September, 2013
Novation is replacing one party with another.
HH
Paul67
You hit the Spence nail on the head.
This nonsense has gone on long enough with everyone tip toeing around the sensitivities of a hurting few.
The SFA must have a wealth of paperwork by now to demonsrate that in all senses of both the football and business world that the club the SFA hold membership of and player registrations for is a different club/busines from the one that is currently being liquidated.
I saw JS tweet about Auntie having something between her legs so maybe the BBC are as tired of paying lip service to a myth that they then get pilloried for doing.
Reality has its way of producing unforeseen consequences that eventually assert Reality.
R Tart had 2 winners yesterday thats 5 in the last 10 days. One mount today Loving Spirit 2.55 at Kempton
desertbhoy
FourGreenFields supports Wee Oscar
And anyone else I have missed thanks for signing the petition and please spread the word.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/judgesmasonregister
Paul67
Fortify the BEEB journalists with fortified wine is what I say.
Jim Spence, Mark Daly and Stuart Cosgrove have emerged from the dead club episode and have graduated with honours .
Although they would probably be embarrassed to admit it , they are the only MSM journalists who are no sullied.
Only in this lamentable, bigoted wee country would the truth be denied for so long!
The MSM with the aforementioned exempt should hold their collective heads in shame, a disgrace to the whole ethos of their profession.
The truth will eventually overcome!
Hail Hail
Monaghan
Just shows you how useless Higher Latin is to a Calton boy.
Thanks and that makes what happened in May 3012 just the bit more sinister (Latin for left btw) :)
3012? now that is getting ahead of myself.
The Beeb problem would be dealt with better I think, if it was taken up outwith scoddland………………The shortie stock-in-trade ‘currants’will turn blind eyes and deaf ears as long as they can. Even to the point of sacrificing one of their own journos…..
The SFA will do SFA.
Standin’ up for Jim Spence
R Tart had 2 winners yesterday thats 5 in the last 10 days. One mount today Loving Spirit 2.55 at Kempton Worth a pound imo
Ernie:
It is a hypothetical game I was talking about but I really am a wee bit confused, why would anybody who thinks Rangers are liquidated (are they?) and dead, and takes delight in proclaiming such as so, then advocate a boycott against a club that no longer exists? It either exists or it doesn’t. I’m of the belief it doesn’t. There is of course a new club called ‘The Rangers’, who we have never, ever, played against.
The Rangers claim the history and timeline of Rangers, we can pay that credence or ignore it. Do Celtic Supporters counter the claims of The Rangers by denying they are the same and yet promoting protest against a new club?
Either they are dead and buried or they’re not, or what? Is there a bigoted limbo somewhere in between?
Can anybody remember what the crowd was at Firhill? It must have been close to a Scottish ‘World’ record for an U 17 game.
The current BBC management in London have crisis aversion fever after recent embarrassments.
In Scotland the BBC act like it was 30 years ago and they can ignore things that are uncomfortable.
I expect that they will say & do nothing in the hope that it goes away or Jim Spence goes.
b b 1
Whats the story re Jim Spence?
Glen Gibbons’ gives them it again today. Well done. HH.
ernie lynch @ 12:59
If the board thought none of us would turn up to watch the Sevco huns they would have adopted an entirely different attitude and strategy in dealing with them.
Yip! Saddest post I’ve ever read.
Auldheid
14:10 on
7 September, 2013
Thanks and that makes what happened in May 3012 just the bit more sinister (Latin for left btw) :)
——
Not only sinister (modern Italian sinistra) but void. Craigy Boy’s position may be fairly strong here.
What support,if any ,is Jim Spence getting from the journos union?
Big Nan
14:08 on
7 September, 2013
Had look at something called “The Surname Database” and found this:
“Recorded in several spellings including Monaghan, Monahan, Minihan, sometimes as Minogue and Monk, but more correctly O’Monahan, this is an Irish surname of great antiquity. It derives from the pre 10th century Gaelic word ‘manachain’ meaning a monk, and hence the use of the English spelling and surname of Monk from time to time.”
Would never have occurred to me.
TBJ/Ernie Lynch
It has been my much maligned opinion that the Huns would not die and never come back in some form.
Football supporters make a club.
They are the lifeblood of a club.
I share your anger of how the liquidation of the original Rangers is being airbrushed.
Turning my back on Celtic is not an option for me.
When I analyse what makes Celtic special for me .
It is the fans, you and I.
Infact that is what made The Original Rangers important , and will ensure that the the Rangers will be prominent again, too soon for my liking.
A form of Rangers will exist whilst there is support for them.
Celtic will need our support more than ever , to combat The Zombie support.
No matter how angry I am at the Celtic board, I cannot turn my back on my fellow Celtic supporters .
I admire both you as posters on here.
I hope when the time comes that you will stand shoulder to shoulder with your fellow Tims.
Be in no doubt the Zombie support is unified like never before , theywill never accept being second best.
We have to show them the door , outnumber them, out finance them , out sing them , and pummell them on the park.
We cannot do that with half empty stadiums , when theirs will be filled to the rafters .
Celtic first , Celtic last , Celtic overall.
TT
petition signed
BTW the dead club are dead
NEVER stop saying it
those who don’t know it are a akin to deniers
those who don’t say are compliant
There is no chance of Jim Spence losing his job over this.
It’s like sacking someone for saying Germany invaded Poland in 1939.
Of subject I do not no if it has been mentioned on here,
Prince Abdullah of Saudi is investing in Sheffield Utd,has he not heard of the mighty Sevco,I demand to no why,I demand names,who torched he bus,cant think of anything else.
H H
!!Bada Bing!! 14:17 on 7 September, 2013
“What support,if any ,is Jim Spence getting from the journos union?”
Jim Spence will get the full backing of the NUJ if he needs it.
A Stor Mo Chroi
14:12 on 7 September, 2013
I know a couple of guys, hardcore Tims, who refused to watch the huns at CP never mind Ipox. They just didn’t want to be associated with any of it.
Other than being Tims the only thing they appeared to have in common is that neither is from a Catholic background. I’m not sure if that influenced how they saw things.
With all that’s happened I’m beginning to understand how they felt.
So long as Sevco claim to be the same club, and for so long as Celtic bite their tongue on the issue, I won’t be going.
It would have been better for everyone if the whole sectarian, bigoted Old Firm thing had been strangled at birth back in the 1920s.
It’s disappointing that so many are so keen to resurrect what should be a corpse.
From Charlottes tweets on sevco board meeting
5.4
The Club had agreed to take on the obligation to pay certain of Oldco’s
football debts as part of the 5 way agreement between Oldco, Newco, theSPL, the SFL and the SFA in order to secure the licence to play football and be accepted into the League.
———————————-
Accepted into not relegated or demoted into AKA bought a licence
Monaghan1900
14:16 on 7 September, 2013
Auldheid
14:10 on
7 September, 2013
Thanks and that makes what happened in May 3012 just the bit more sinister (Latin for left btw) :)
——
Not only sinister (modern Italian sinistra) but void. Craigy Boy’s position may be fairly strong here.
……………………………………………………………….
have to say it….Giusto….on!!
the sevconians can call their club whatever they like
the sevconians can claim whatever history they like
Unfortunately for them so can I
They are dead
They are ex
They are defunct
They are no longer
They are a tribute act
They are goners
They are deaddy bears
and I will tell them to the day I die
.
The Real Enemy Within
Written by D’Artagnan
Statement on Rangers website: “If RFC fans want the truth they will find it only on the Club’s official platforms.” < Respectfully disagree. (Peter Adam Smith – Twitter 17.08.2013)
The above tweet by STV journalist Peter Adam Smith reflected both caution and frustration with the current situation at Ibrox regarding the press and media. I doubt very much a Rangers support still very much in recovery post Craig Whyte will ever take official statements emanating from Ibrox as "gospel". It was a lesson which was learned the hard way and such an erosion of confidence is just one of the many legacies where Whyte's tenure has left its indelible and ugly mark.
I have considerable sympathy for journalists such as Peter Smith and Richard Wilson at the Glasgow Herald, honest hard working journalists whose job is made a whole lot more difficult in view of the press shutters at Ibrox being firmly shut. The term "Iron Curtain" springs to mind. It goes without saying this is not a healthy situation for either the press and media but more importantly, nor for the Rangers support. But rather than limit their criticism at Rangers alone, perhaps those journalists, victims of collateral damage, would benefit from looking inwardly for a moment at the cause rather the manifestation of that Iron Curtain.
The recent hard-line statements from within Ibrox directed towards the press and media have been the subject of considerable discussion within the journalistic fraternity, particularly those who use twitter. Many are quick to mock suggestions of an anti-Rangers agenda or bias amongst our press and media – it is after all a fairly sensational claim. But their speed of dismissal of such notions slows down considerably when certain examples are put before them. (I'm still waiting for an answer from STV journalist Neil Sargent over a number of points I raised with him via twitter)
As Rangers fans we take criticism of our club personally. When that criticism is based on lies or misrepresentation then that hurt anger is significantly compounded. Our media would do well to realise they are dealing with a support who have been conditioned to very negative and false representation with regard to our club even pre Craig Whyte. The Ibrox grass being cut to represent a sash, and Eggs Benedict being removed from the Auchenhowie menu are just a couple of examples which role of the top of the head. Perhaps its ironic that the newspaper which carried these stories is no longer in existence – due to the immoral and criminal conduct of some of its journalists.
And our support, almost to a man allegedly, were just a bunch of bigoted troglodytes according to Mr Graham Spiers. The same Graham Spiers who resorted to lying on national television rather than have the strength of character or integrity to admit, when challenged by Chris Graham, that what he had written was wholly and fundamentally wrong and inaccurate.
It seemed Rangers bashing was one of the few growth industries in Scotland.
Is their any basis whatsoever for Rangers supporters mistrust of the press and media or is it , as some would have up believe, just a figment of blue tinted paranoia ?
I will start with BBC Scotland mainly because during the preparation of this article an example of the type of journalism which this article hopes to challenge manifested itself. Jim Spence on BBC Sportsound, just this week, commented on the alleged mortal state of our club. This prompted the normal flood of complaints from Rangers supporters with the usual denials from within Pacific Quay. Casual observers, given what has transpired over the last couple of years would probably class this as “situation normal”.
BBC Scotland themselves reported on Lord Nimmo Smith's ruling that Rangers under Charles Green post administration were accountable for the actions of the pre administration Rangers as there was continuity of the football entity if not the business side. Jim Spence of course is not alone at BBC Scotland in conveniently ignoring what either Lord Nimmo Smith, the European Club Association, the SFA (or perhaps as an indication of how ridiculous this has become – the Advertising Standards Agency) – all had to say about the continuity of the football entity which is Rangers.
The fact that the BBC Trust had to adjudicate on this matter indicates how widespread disdain for Rangers football club is within BBC Scotland. A complaint regarding the manner and descriptive terms used by BBC Scotland to describe Rangers had to be escalated through all management levels at BBC Scotland until eventually it was referred to the BBC Trust with the Trust finding in favour of the complainants , much to the ire of many within BBC Scotland. And which even resulted in their business and economy editor, Douglas Fraser, having a pop at Rangers via Twitter.
One has to wonder how long individuals like Spence will be allowed to use the platform of the BBC to peddle their misinformation and lies regarding the club ?
Furthermore the circumstances surrounding the making of the BBC Scotland documentary – The Men Who Sold The Jersey's – is worthy of comment (albeit limited due to the criminal investigation relative to this) BBC Scotland received evidence which was stolen from the Rangers Tax Case, not leaks, not some minor e-mails, but as Lord Nimmo Smith described them “productions” from the Rangers Tax Tribunal. Rather than return this evidence as one might expect from a responsible organisation in receipt of stolen property, BBC Scotland decided to retain this appropriated property and used it as the basis to for their sensational documentary, the balance and fairness of which was certainly questionable. As Lord Nimmo Smith describing the documentary commented :-
This event appears to have been the trigger for more activity in response to the SPL’s request.
A public funded media organisation felt it was appropriate to engage in criminal conduct (Reset) in order to engage in a bit of Rangers bashing. Forget any excuse about “whistle blowing” – these facts were already in the public domain and subject to legal proceedings thus usurping any claim that it was whistle blowing.
But this Rangers bashing is not limited to BBC Scotland either unfortunately. The Daily Record, a recent target of fairly hard line statements within Ibrox only have themselves to blame.
On the 24th May, 2013 the Record ran the following story:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/pierre-van-hooijdonk-says-rangers-1908009
Perhaps journalistic standards have dropped in recent years but would it not have been wise for the Record to check the dates in question ? Had they done so they would have learned that Rangers never had EBT's during the time alluded to by the “victim”. Furthermore, in case the Record missed it, (though… “Its a f*cking Government conspiracy” comments, allegedly by their staff, appear to suggest otherwise) Rangers were found not guilty at the Tax Tribunal.
Furthermore it was no secret that the Record Editor. Alan Rennie, was keen to recruit the persons behind The Rangers Tax Case Blog, for a regular column within the newspaper. In fact he openly pleased with them via Twitter to get in touch. Perhaps their spiteful, malicious and vindictive conduct towards our club jumped out at Mr Rennie from their CV. Quite simply Mr Rennie should be utterly ashamed of himself.
But the unashamed appears to know no bounds when it comes to the Scottish media. Perhaps some of you will be surprised by my next example, particularly given some of the lies this individual has concocted about our club and support in the past. But for me the following article from Graham Spiers is the epitome of Rangers bashing:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/spiers-on-sport-rangers-new-club-or-old-and-the-bbc.1371631860
It breaks all the rules of debate, it breaks all the rules of evidence. (Well the ones BBC Scotland haven't received and retained) Note the author's use of examples from snapshots of time, following emotionally charged meetings or events. Perhaps worthy of greater note are the comments which Mr Spiers fails to cite in his article – Those of Lord Nimmo Smith, The SFA, The European Clubs Association to name but a few – in short a complete absence of comment from those who have either the authority or qualification to adjudicate officially on the matter. Sub standard, lazy and poor journalism ? Probably. But given the author it would be fair to include the ingredient of malicious mischief making into the pot.
I haven’t proven beyond reasonable doubt a concerted conspiracy within the press and media in Scotland towards Rangers – but I do think I have demonstrated why there is something of an Iron Curtain around Ibrox towards the press and media.
As I said in the opening this is not a good thing for wither the press or the Rangers support. But it's not from within Ibrox that the change must come, but rather with the cause rather than the manifestation.
Malicious, inaccurate, lazy and sub standard journalism are the real enemies of the truth – not those within Ibrox who pull down Iron Curtains – that’s just the medicine for the malaise.
But until the gentlemen of the press learn how to self-regulate (and apparently Lord Leveson does not think them capable) then Iron Curtains are sure to descend.
But how do they self-regulate ? Well for a start perhaps journalists could spend their twitter time criticising those who cause Iron Curtains to descend, due to malicious, poor. sub standard and inaccurate articles.
Over to you Peter.
Summa
The BBC eh?
State-controlled propaganda,lies and distortion.
To look to that contemptible and biased organisation,as an accurate,reliable source for news and information,is extremely foolish.
BBC Scotland and BBC Northern Ireland,in particular,are the most vehemently anti-Catholic instruments on this earth.
They also somehow manage to get the weather forecast wrong,fifty two weeks of the year.
I read and listen to their spontaneous nonsense almost every day as well,but I have the sense not to believe a word of it.
Apologies for the rant.
Get “Bawface” to convene a summit about protecting the freedom of scottish journalism……………..’blood of our blood’ or whatever……. etc etc etc etc etc…………..
‘So long as Sevco claim to be the same club, and for so long as Celtic bite their tongue on the issue, I won’t be going.’
I’m referring only to Sevco games, not all games.
It doesn’t matter how much proof and evidence we throw at the huns. They have two tools left in their box, one being absolute denial of the truth, the other intimidation and threats.
They will never ever admit that Rfc 1872 died. To them, that would be an admission that Timmy has won, although in their heart and mind they know this to be the case. Its like the No Surrender default has kicked in. What little respect the former club and its support had has gone forever. There’s a Black Comedy going on over there, with people like McCoist and Green in starring roles, backed by 100000 extras. A bomb dropped on Ibrox last year but the crater is being dug deeper every day by a cast of idiots.
Only UEFA can put an end to this almighty farce. Our masonic ridden governing body has either bottled it or has too much of a vested interest in one club, to do the necessary.
European football’s top brass must surely publish a definitive statement and sign the death certificate. It will not only put an official end to the whole farce, it’ll save the likes of Jim Spence from further grief.
hh
All we need to do is get a look at one of Elbows wageslips from two years ago and compare it to a current one and see if he has the same payroll number ETC.
If it’s the same then fair enough. I reckon it will bear no resemblance.
Hey, I just read that back and have noted that I have used the words “current” and “bear”. Hmmmm.