Bogus issues and a Good Old Celtic debate


I’ve not spent a lot of time online this week (work sometimes creeps in) but can’t believe the amount of traction that notion that Sevco would somehow be able to acquire SFA membership of a dead club, with all associated benefits, but be in a position to dictate set terms on how past misdeeds of Rangers would be recorded.

This is a bogus debate which serves only to deflect from the more serious issues facing Sevco, namely, do they have circa £25m to pay their way this season?  If not, their pedantic views of disciplinary matters are moot, although they may be used as a principled excuse to fold a football club.

On more positive matters……….

Tony Hamilton asked me into the Celtic TV to discuss various issues surrounding the club.  We spoke about how recent events elsewhere have had a galvanising impact on supporters of Celtic and other clubs, where Celtic’s future should be.  I also gave a breakdown of what the death of Rangers would mean financially to Celtic, with or without Champions League group stage qualification, talked about how it would benefit the entire Scottish game if we found a new league to play in, and the great atmosphere we have at Celtic Park these days – which you can experience if you buy a season ticket, which you absolutely-without-a-doubt-should!

Do it now.  The video is below:

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  1. Afternoon all. An important game is looming…



    My suggested line-up for the match against HJK Helsinki (subject to fitness/availability) would be as follows:





    Matthews Wanyama Mulgrew Izaguirre


    Brown Kayal Commons Samaras


    Hooper Stokes



    Subs: Zaluska, Rogne, Wilson, Forrest, McCourt, McGeouch, Watt

  2. Suggestions for films to be shown on


    the Ibrox big screen this weekend if


    Sevco can’t get the green light for the


    big Brechin match:



    Goodnight Vienna


    Another 48 Hours


    Groundhog Day


    The Longest Summer


    The Long Goodbye




    Goodbye Charlie

  3. Paul67



    ‘talked about how it would benefit the entire Scottish game if we found a new league to play in’



    Saying nothing… ;)

  4. hamiltontim



    Earlier post.


    Just tea time gossip. I am sure there is no truth to it… ;-)

  5. Terrible if Portsmouth went out of business. Leaves a place in the English League right enough that has to be filled asap…



    Erik Huseklepp?

  6. traditionalist88 on




    What about your earlier post about your interesting conversation… Is Mr67 sitting on some big news ready to pounce…




  7. traditionalist88



    Like my other post, tea time gossip. Fits in with a couple of articles on here and ‘talked about how it would benefit the entire Scottish game if we found a new league to play in’




  8. Dear fellow Celtic supporter,



    As we embark on our 125th season we enter a crucial new phase in the great history of our Club. Your unwavering support throughout the years has been central to the success of Celtic. It has been one of the core strands of Celtic’s DNA.



    There have been great times throughout our history, none more so than Lisbon in 1967 or our centenary year in 1988. There have been challenging times too and following recent events, Scottish football and Celtic FC now finds itself on the verge of a new era.



    Throughout our history Celtic has, time and again, stood up for what it believes is right. In recent weeks we have acted accordingly, in the best interests of Celtic and Scottish football.



    It is clear that recent events will present the club with some new challenges – we are not afraid to face these head on, with our supporters side by side.



    We have a Club which is strong, a Club open to all, formed with charitable purpose at its core, a Club whose traditions and values unite millions of people across the world and a Club which has enjoyed 125 unbroken years.



    More than ever, it is a time to celebrate what we stand for. We must do so with a collective unity between the supporters, the Club and the team. We need to stand shoulder to shoulder and work together to continue to move the Club in the right direction.



    Celtic supporters have already renewed their season tickets in huge numbers. I want to thank you all sincerely for your support. You are the lifeblood of the Club and it is wonderful that you stand with us at this very important time in our history.



    For those fans still considering renewal or whether to buy a season ticket for the first time this year – We need you back at Celtic Park. It is imperative that we continue to develop this exciting young team and give them a platform to take on the best in Europe. Our priority is to give Celtic every opportunity to be as successful as possible, both domestically and in European competition. It’s an ambition that every Celtic supporter, including myself, shares. We can only do that with your support.



    Everyone at Celtic sincerely understands and appreciates the commitment and sacrifice which you make in following our great Club.



    One hundred and twenty-five years ago Brother Walfrid established Celtic Football Club. Celtic greats such as Willie Maley, Jimmy McGrory, Jock Stein, Billy McNeill, Tommy Burns and Henrik Larsson shaped our history. We now need to make our own history.



    Let’s do it together.



    Kindest Regards



    Peter Lawwell


    Chief Executive

  9. lennon's passion on

    @JimDelahunt: Hope Robbie not thinking Gers were skint when offering play for zilch. £350K a year on offer to ex Hibs & Hearts stars in Div 3 Mail.



    Maybe need to rethink your figures Paul67. Any chance you could do a piece on the youth set up at Lennoxtown.

  10. “We have a Club which is strong, a Club open to all, formed with charitable purpose at its core, a Club whose traditions and values unite millions of people across the world and a Club which has enjoyed 125 unbroken years.”



    Caltic 5 Sevco 0

  11. Gordon J



    I love the 125 UNBROKEN years!






    Ps trust you are well Gordon?

  12. Paradise_Found on

    hi all looking for bit of info. Does anyone know if there is a supporters bus picks up in Busby/Clarkston area. Any contact details? Got some friends who are interested. Sure I’ve seen a few crowds waiting in the past but not sure if it is still running. Cheers HH.

  13. Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on

    Good Afternoon,



    So far, Mr Charles Green has predicted or suggested that the CVA proposed by Duff & Phelps would be accepted by the creditors of Rangers PLC (including HMRC), that the players employed by Rangers PLC are covered by the TUPE provisions, that the SPL would accede to the application of Servco and that ” The Rangers Football Club” would be playing in the SPL in season 2012/2013.



    Mr Green was wrong on all counts.



    Further, in the midst of his very public spat with Dave King ( of whom more later ) he stated on 9th June that he would be introducing £30M of working capital into Servco by 31st July 2012. That date is now less than one week away!



    If we are to believe all that is printed in the papers ( and who on this blog does not? ) Mr Green is currently negotiating a licence to play football with the SFA, and that practically all matters are cleared up bar some trifling sideshows that are to be resolved with the SPL.



    Surely he could not be wrong again?



    This latter aspect is curious ( to me at least ) as I had thought it had been determined that Mr Green’s club would not be playing in the SPL, and so quite why and SFL club would even involve themselves with a league they were not members of is beyond me!



    Except of course that this is “Rangers”– where nothing quite appears to be as it seems– or as is first presented– whether what is presented is to the “Rangers” fans, The SFA, The SPL, the “Rangers” Creditors, HMRC or anyone else.



    The plain and simple truth is that there is no one on the “Rangers” side of this saga that you can trust! None of the parties involved- going way back in time– could be said to speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.



    Some may be deluded. Some may be mistaken. Some may be disingenuous. Some may be just plain wrong and some may be just plain crooked liars who will say and indeed do anything to meet their own- ill perceived- ends.



    This leaves the football fans, the football authorities, the media people, the other teams in Scotland and elsewhere, HMRC and everyone else in the position where they just do not know what to believe, if anything, that emanates from Ibrox or those who seek to control events at Ibrox.



    Most important of all is the fact that the football authorities in Scotland should, by now, have come to recognise this. Time after time in recent months, we have seen both the SFA and the SPL “officials” seemingly adhere to notions and proposals coming from Ibrox only for their members to point out that such notions and proposals cannot be accepted or acceptable to the rest of football.



    And so it remains.



    Take for example the demands of the fit and proper person test and the need for accounts. Green has to pass these tests to get any registration of any kind, but the majority of recent press reporting focuses on the notion that any investigation into dual contracts and improper registration of players by the SPL should be postponed and the public outburst by Master McCoist that “Rangers” will not accept the stripping of titles– Master McCoist of course enhancing his reputation for behaving like a spoilt brat who in olden times would have had his legs skelped for repeated disgraceful public behaviour.



    Howwever let me suggest that all of that is a complete blind and takes the focus away from the need for accounts,accountability and the need for full disclosure as to who Charles Green really is!



    There are very good reasons why Green & Co would go to endless lengths to try and get the SPL investigation into dual contracts postponed and it has nothing to do with the stripping of titles. It has to do with saving the skin of those who were at the core of the whole Ibrox debacle– including Master McCoist!



    Lets start with the powers of the SPL Commission who would be investigating. Oh yes they can overturn results, they can withdraw awards and strip titles– but that is not all that they can do!



    They can also:



    G6.1.13 order any Club, Club Official or Player to pay compensation to any Club, Player, person or party;


    G6.1.14 order any Club, Club Official or Player to comply with any obligation or direction;






    G6.1.18 make such other direction, sanction or disposal, not expressly provided for in these Rules, as it shall think appropriate; and/or


    G6.1.19 make such order as to expenses, including the expenses of the Board and/or, as the case may be, Commission and/or other party, as it thinks appropriate.



    Furthermore, the commissions power of enquiy includes the ability to summons and take evidence from anyone it deems fit to do so, and in general it has all the powers necessary to get to the bottom of this particular saga.



    Those powers are not just as strong as the powers of the soon to be liquidator of Rangers PLC, who has a range of powers to seek redress against former Directors, shadow Directors and anyone else involved in the running of the “club” or the company.



    When the CVA was rejected by HMRC it was done so on the specific basis that there could be a proper liquidation which would provide “The best opportunity to protect taxpayers by allowing the potential investigation and pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the company’s financial failures in recent years.”



    In other words, Hector is coming.. and he is coming for a damn good look because he thinks ther are those at Ibrox who were at it, who have been caught, and who he is going to chase for a variety of reasons- not least to show the footballing world that widespread past practices in football, including EBT’s, are at an end, but also because it is readily apparent that Rangers Football Club are at it and have been more than dishonest for many years in many mnay ways.



    Accordingly, an SPL enquiry right now is as welcome as a hole in the head!



    But why should Green bother, he has nothing to do with the past regime? Correct?



    Well, let’s go back to Dave King, who to be fair cannot be regarded as the bastion of truth and justice either.



    King has claimed in the past that he cannot accpet that White simply handed over his shares to Green for £2 without retaining some control in the background. Further, in June Whyte himself claimed that his shares would form “part of the Charles Green consortium”, and of course despite repeated promises to do so, Green refuses to name who is investors actually are with the mysterious Blue Pitch Holdings remaing the largest single stakeholder with an alleged 23% of Servco.



    Remember too, that King claimed that he would sue Whyte as he ( Whyte ) had a pre existing agreement with King to sell him his entire shareholding, and that this had been confirmed in writing by another Rangers PLC Director, namely Andrew Ellis!



    Would an enquiry into dual contracts and their registration bring about new salvos in this particular set of disputes? You will note that all of this has gone remarkably quiet for the moment, but there are reasons to believe that various parties would have more than a passing interest in having a say, and others would want to see the whole thing far enough.



    Consider too that in recent days, Whyte appears to have claimed that he was astounded when Lloyds did not offer any new financial assisstance to Rangers PLC once Whyte had cleared off the long standing debt by way of the Ticketus money. He claims that there was an understanding that once the old debt was paid off, then a new facility would have been available.



    I wonder who told him that? Lloyds? Murray?



    This would be the same David Murray who King no longer speaks to, and who King claims to have deceived him as far back as 2000 when King was persuaded to part with £20M as part of a share issue which was designed to get rid of a £40M debt at that time. Since then King claims that Murray mismanaged the Rangers business, did not disclose the full extent of the Rangers finances and took certain steps which benefited Murray and MIH which were to the financial detriment of Rangers PLC! If true, then that all brings the big F word to mind– and a don’t mean the one that rhymes with duck!



    Do we really have a situation where Whyte and King both claim to have been deceived about what would happen if they invested money? And was Murray completely unaware of Whyte, who of course duped him, and the problems surrounding King’s assets and ability to trade as a result of the investigations by SARS?



    Looking at the KIng/Murray/ Rangers relationship makes for very odd reading, and I am indebted to others who provided some financial info yesterday.



    King arrived in South Africa in 1976 having been transferred there by his then employers- The Weir Group- Jim McColl.



    He eventually strikes out on his own and by 2000 has made more than a few quid but has tax issues.



    He has retained his affection for Rangers, and is persuaded by Murray ( alledgedly ) to invest the £20M in the Rangers share issue of that time– Rangers having severe debt problems at the time. So let’s get this straight here. King, a shrewd businessman with tax troubles, spends £20M in return for which he gets a minority shareholding in Rangers PLC and a non executive Directorship at the club.



    Pause there: If £20M gets you a very minor shareholding just how did Murray- and more importantly King- value the club? Remember King still had this shareholding when the company went into Admin in February this year.



    Not long after King invests his £20M, the annual accounts for Rangers show a trading loss for the previous year of £16.3M.



    Yet, in separate papers produced by King, he claims to have received the equivalent of roughly £15.75M by way of income from Rangers PLC for the period ending 2001? Eh- he only arrived in 2000!



    Note– this is not repayment of a loan, nor is it money for the sale of his shares ( which he still has ) nor to my knowledge is it a dividend on the shares– everyone else who was a Rangers shareholder must have received an equivalent amount so this would run to tens of Millions, and as a dividend can only be paid out of “profits” the sum is a total mystery.



    Further, as pointed out in Paul McConville’s blog ( a nod and more in that direction ) it is unclear whether this sum was received by King net of tax or gross. If it was net of tax, then King didn’t receive £15m- he actually received £25M.



    So– here you have a guy with major tax issues in South Africa, with assets frozen including planes and so on, who has “access” to a large sum through a company. He sticks £20M into Rangers PLC in 2000 but by 2001 he has received back either £15M net or £25M gross– but he keeps his shares and Directorship?



    Mmmmm? Is it all making sense to you?



    Would an enquiry into player registrations touch on that?



    Well it would certainly stretch back to the time period, and it would certainly look at individual transfers at the time and how they were funded and indeed accounted for in the books. It would also look at who conducted them and register them? It might even look at who was the company secretary at the time?



    However, beyond that, the Liquidator in his investigations might just want to have sight of what the SPL through Harper McLeod solicitors uncovered which then takes me to the next point.



    Rangers went into Liquidation with huge losses.



    The Liquidator, as a bare minimum, will want to know who actually got paid at the expense of the creditors ( especially HMRC ) and why. Now it is one thing to pay £y to Mr X if he was contractually entitled to it, but it is another thing altogether to pay £y to Mr X by way of a discretionary gift, especially if it brings about losses which means not paying any tax!



    Within a certain period, the Liquidator could undo any such financial transaction- he doesn’t have to show fraud, or negligence or anything else- he coukd just seek to undo preferential payments that were not in the interests of the creditors.



    Of course, in this instance the EBT payments were made to the MIH employee benefits trust- and so it could be that the liquidator would be claiming the money back from there in the first instance– and who knows what is in the MIH employee benefits trust by way of money, assets or indeed records.



    However, as such trusts are normally administered by professional independent trustees, I would have thought that the standard of record keeping would be pretty could– if only to protect the trustees themselves.



    So why did Dave King receive money when the company was making a loss? Was he really just making a short term loan to Murray for some reason in return for a nominal stake in the club, a non exec directorship and a few quid in interest? or was he moving some money through the Rangers account and getting it back shortly after with in a different form with an “admin” fee having been deducted?



    And separately, what do we make of Craig Whyte claiming that he paid off TWO accounts with Lloyds– one which was circa £20M in debt in the name of Rangers PLC, and another which was in another name which was £10M in debt? Is that to be believed and if so what is that all about? Did Rangers PLC guarantee another debt, or pledge assets in security of another debt?



    Given that an enquiry with such wide powers could stray into matters which are germain to all of this, and that Green may well be the agent provocateur for any of these characters, can you see the sense in kicking all and any enquiries as far down the line as possible?



    Further, dare I mention Section 216 of the Insolvency Act 1986.



    This states that if a company is placed into insolvent Liquidation (ie Compulsory or Creditors’ Voluntary Liquidation), directors or shadow directors in the preceding twelve months are prohibited from being directors or shadow directors of a company with a name by which the liquidating company was known by in that period of twelve months or a name which is so similar as to suggest an association.



    So if John Smith Limited is placed into Liquidation, a director of that company cannot simply become a director of John Smith (Newco) Limited



    Accordingly if any of the bods mentioned above ( or Paul Murray, or Walter (maybe) or Ally (maybe) or any number of others who may be deemed to control contracts and carry out other functions worthy of a Director of Rangers PLC, are behind the scenes with Servco and in a position of influence whether as Director or shadow Director– then Servco cannot use the word “Rangers” in its title!!!



    Would the SFA or the SPL really want that? How would it go down with SKY etc if Servco were to officially play as Servco and not “The Rangers Football Club”.



    No, I am sorry, any examination of this whole situation points to people fighting for their lives on an individual basis, with much to fear of any enquiry of any kind which has independent people sitting in judgement. The stripping of titles is a concern as it affects history– a history which Charles Green said would be wiped away and flushed down the toilet if Liquidation occurred. However, I would wager that any of the players in this murky little farce would sell that history in an instant to save their own skins if it comes close to their being accused of some naughty stuff!



    The football authorities need to start with complete full and total disclosure as to who Green’s investors and partners are, and none of the previous players need step forward as they are all tainted and in any event will all be subject to the scrutiny of the liquidator and of the legal provisions surrounding phoenixing.



    History will show that the footballing authorities in Scotland were duped, deceived and or used by Rangers Football club and its officials for the better part of two decades. The same football authorities cannot afford to be so used ,duped and deceived again by the same people hiding in the shadows. With all the various non footballing enquiries we have at the moment the truth- or something approaching it will eventually out– and those at Hampden cannot afford to be made to look even more stupid by that truth.



    They should also remember that this whole affair is about to be looked into in the greatest deatil by those who have absolutely no interest in football, tv contracts, reputations, and the footballing old boy network.



    It is not only football clubs who can be stripped of titles and positions.

  14. !!Bada Bing!! on

    A Son of Dan- Bangura? Murphy will easily slot in when he’s injured……Tony Watt is ahead of these 2 IMO.An example of getting a young bhoy and giving him his chance but we need more quality and a CB.NL trying to make this fly for CL football,I have my doubts and hope im wrong mate.

  15. Steinreignedsupreme on

    Paul 67 –


    Re: First paragraph:



    It’s just the latest in a long list of lies. Lest we forget – There is no tax bill, There is a tax bill but Rangers are confident the outcome will favour the club, Craig Whyte is a billionaire with off-the-scale wealth, Rangers turned down a £9m bid for Nikica Jelevic, Rangers will never be liquidated, Ally McCoist has a £25m war-chest, Scottish football will not survive without Rangers in the SPL, Rangers are set to tap into the India market where they could pick up 1bn fans, HMRC will do a pennies in the pound deal with Rangers, The Blue Knights will buy Rangers, Bill Ng will buy Rangers, The Blue Knights will buy Rangers, Bill Miller will buy Rangers, The Blue Knights will buy Rangers, Rangers will be voted into the SPL, Rangers will be voted into the First Division, five SPL clubs could go bust this season …



    Apologies to any lies I’ve left off the list.

  16. “It’s an ambition that every Celtic supporter, including myself, shares.”



    An intriguing way for big Peter to tell us he’s a supporter.



    Perhaps a new script writer is required.

  17. philvisreturns on

    warszawabhoy – Can’t see what’s wrong with that statement?



    Sure, it may not have the mellifluous cadence of a Bomber Brown oratory, but Peter manages to communicate his thoughts nevertheless. (thumbsup)

  18. Gordon J



    Haha he does indeed! Yes I’m very good thank you, just looking forward to the start of the season!

  19. merseycelt lmfao as the big house door slams shut on




    Just as well you know what you’re talking about. No tie, tsch! tsch!




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