I’ve not spent a lot of time online this week (work sometimes creeps in) but can’t believe the amount of traction that notion that Sevco would somehow be able to acquire SFA membership of a dead club, with all associated benefits, but be in a position to dictate set terms on how past misdeeds of Rangers would be recorded.
This is a bogus debate which serves only to deflect from the more serious issues facing Sevco, namely, do they have circa £25m to pay their way this season? If not, their pedantic views of disciplinary matters are moot, although they may be used as a principled excuse to fold a football club.
On more positive matters……….
Tony Hamilton asked me into the Celtic TV to discuss various issues surrounding the club. We spoke about how recent events elsewhere have had a galvanising impact on supporters of Celtic and other clubs, where Celtic’s future should be. I also gave a breakdown of what the death of Rangers would mean financially to Celtic, with or without Champions League group stage qualification, talked about how it would benefit the entire Scottish game if we found a new league to play in, and the great atmosphere we have at Celtic Park these days – which you can experience if you buy a season ticket, which you absolutely-without-a-doubt-should!
Do it now. The video is below:
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ItaliaBhoy on 27 July, 2012 at 09:24 said:
So, tax, particularly paying it, is a bad thing. You sound like the anonymous bank CEO who boasted to like-minded chums, ‘I pay less tax than my cleaners.’ I bet he didn’t spend the first half of the year paying tax before he started earning. Tax is part of the social contract. If you have a moral objection to it don’t contact the police when you’re burgled, don’t call an ambulance if your child is sick, refuse to go to A&E when you’re involved in an accident.
‘CONTRACTS will be signed with Sky and ESPN to show 65 matches per season from the Scottish Premier League and Irn-Bru Third Division if Rangers newco’s Scottish Football Association membership is approved later today.’
You can guarantee then they will come up with a decision that suits rangers.
Morning Celts and happy Friday to ye all.
Watched the Paul67 interview great stuff.
Good to see also @ polishturnstile (Head of Celtic Media) has a very clear understanding of things like Internet Bampottery
….PFayr on 27 July, 2012 at 10:27:
BSR
The people running Southampton have a … ahem, close relationship with Charlie Green seemingly.
PF
That’s what I would like to know as well.
TheGreenManalishi – Sorry can’t agree, If the govt increases the tax on petrol I can make a choice as whether to pay for it or not. Similarly if I am offered overtime it is my choice whether to work and pay the incremental tax or not. Therefore no avoidance.
OK buddy. (thumbsup)
tomtheleedstim –
Philvis – whilst I recognise the point you are trying to make I think it’s worth remembering that the majority of “legal” tax avoidance schemes are developed by the wealthy, for the wealthy.
Yes, for the wealthy have more to protect. Not much point setting up tax schemes for paupers. (thumbsup)
ernie lynch – Sorry, I must have missed your reply:
HOW MUCH CAN HM TREASURY EXPECT YOUR CHEQUE TO BE FOR?
I’m sure you wouldn’t want people thinking you’re just another peevish socialist hypocrite. (thumbsup)
“It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion”
A defense of income tax from that well known socialist Adam Smith
just had a chat with a connected killie sb holder. he was just off a phonecall to say they are heading for admin.
One foot in the Algrave!
=====================================
Should Celtic stay or should they go?
A little while back, I posted an article about the rumours of Celtic handing in notice to the SPL. That particular article was the most viewed article on this site to date – plenty of it along the lines of “it’ll never happen”. Nonetheless, it’s been something I’ve spent a bit of time researching further as things are happening.
Well, while they timetable has been delayed, I am able to reveal today that there are two options upon the table, both of whom have had discussions with Celtic regarding movement.
Firstly, there is the Eredivisie. Celtic have spoken to Dutch clubs who have spoken to the Dutch FA about the possibility. While the larger clubs are in favour of the proposal, including champions Ajax who are setting up a pre-season friendly with Celtic with the sole purpose of proving Celtic’s drawing prowess to the rest of the league. There is one major flaw which is that the Eredivisie has no plans for expansion – the rules would have to be bent to allow Celtic entry as, like the proposals for England, they would be blocked by teams whom would have their Eredivisie place put at risk.
The second option is Portugal’s Primeira Liga, who are exploring contacting Celtic regarding them joining the league. This is being done with view to the league being expanded by two sides and Celtic starting in the league for the beginning of NEXT SEASON. Proposals for league expansion for next season have already been passed by the league, but were rejected by the FA earlier this season. This was due to the proposals involving no relegation for the current season (11-12) and the big teams thinking that the smaller clubs would not play to their potential, possibly hindering their title ambitions – this is as Benfica, Porto & Sporting have a bigger voice at the FA than in the league (due to the voting structure in place). League boss Mario Figueiredo is of the opinion that the introduction of Celtic, rather than 2 clubs from the Liga Orangina (Yes, that is the actual name of the Portugese Second Tier), would be enough to sway the big three clubs into dropping their opposition due to the obvious commercial benefits. So far, the discussions with Celtic have been preliminary, as the preferred option of the Celtic board is the Eredivisie but the opinion of the Portugese authorities is that if Celtic accept the proposals it will be a formality to get them accepted into the league.
So, firstly, what can the SPL do? I’ve touched on this previously (http://thefootballlife.tumblr.com/post/22271597607/the-newco-solution) in the concept of setting up a franchise system. In an ideal world, the SPL would be able to provide the commercial and competitive means for Celtic to prosper. The fact, as is plain to see with just how much Scottish football has been dragged through the gutter (and potentially about to be in receipt of UEFA punishment), is that the SPL cannot do so and, without root and branch reform of Scottish football, Celtic will leave. They would not have entered discussions with the Eredivisie if this was not the case (As England is not considered to be an option, at least not within the compressed timeframe Celtic are now working to).
Secondly, what would UEFA do? UEFA have no aversion what so ever to Celtic leaving Scotland. None. Nada. Their opposition to the Atlantic League was solely down to UEFA’s opinion that it would be a direct competitor to and undermine the value of the Champions League. As for one member club deciding to switch countries for their league? There is already precedent with Cardiff/Swansea and clubs from Liechtenstein doing this currently so, were UEFA to be opposed to it, a case could be brought to the CAS, precedents listed and UEFA would be defeated. Hence they have no problem with Celtic changing league.
What then, are the pros and cons of each option. Firstly, from a practical standpoint (Cost, etc), the Eredivisie is an unknown. However, helpfully, some Portugese men in high places have already sent over detailed plans of how this would work in practice. Away games would be played two at a time (in a Friday-Monday slot) to ensure that fans are able to travel over and have a long weekend with view to an opening weekend, for next season, of Celtic vs Porto (Champion vs Champion) in Glasgow followed by (over the last weekend of August) a Lisbon double header of Sporting and Benfica. To say that the Portugese want this venture to start on a hot streak is an understatement. The Eredivisie have, to date, done no such thing, but they believe that the cost issue will be the dictator of what Celtic do.
The fact is, getting to Portugal costs more than getting to The Netherlands, hence why the Portugese authorities have proposed the away game double headers to cut costs as much as possible. They are also of the opinion that there are enough ex-pats who are based in Portugal and Spain to ensure that there will always be a healthy travelling support. In addition, extra flights would be laid on to wherever Celtic go, which would cut the costs down automatically.
When it comes to commercial interests, Portugal again, believe they have the advantage. While the Eredivisie has more exposure in English speaking markets (in that they, unlike the Portugese league have a contract in the UK and also get more shown in the US and Australia), rights are sold to an dedicated subscription only Eredivisie channel. In Portugal, they are sold directly from the club to TV with more exposure in Latin markets. Regardless, Portugese rights are only worth (currently) about half as much as that of the Eredivisie in total. Both, however, are considerably more than the SPL and both would be expected to rise significantly with Celtic in the league. Finally, the Club driven rights sales, plus the rapid rise in international rights sales to English speaking markets (viewing figures in the US, Australia would double and a UK contract would be worth somewhere in the region of £5-10m a season.
Finally, there is the spectre of competition. Portugal get more Champions League places and, past the top three, the standard of teams is low. In the Eredivisie, the European qualification is very competitive with plenty of good sides. In Portugal, Celtic would, more or less, be guaranteed European football every season. In the Netherlands, maybe not.
So, overall, what would be the better option?
Firstly, we have the SPL question – Celtic have to give 2 years notice. Portugal want them by the start of next season. There is no reason as to why Celtic cannot play a reserve/youth side in the SPL and the first team in the Eredivisie/Liga Zon Sagres – again, there is precedent from the Welsh clubs in the Welsh Cup. Any Eredivisie deal would not happen until after the 2 year notice period. Legally, that would be easier, but not impossible to overcome.
The preferred option, so far, is a move to the Eredivisie. Matches against Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Twente, AZ et al are considered an easier sell to fans than Benfica, Porto, Sporting et al. British rules on work permits are also considered more compatible with the current Dutch system than the Portugese one. However, form a monetary perspective, if Celtic are able to match Benfica or Sporting straight away, Champions League qualification would make up any loss in TV rights, plus the possibility that the Portugese league may soon overtake Serie A as, in UEFA rankings, the 4th best league in Europe. Both options are good and both have obvious benefits, but only Portugal are willing to get Celtic in as soon as possible. Should the Celtic board entertain the Portugese proposal to them as much as they have discussed things with Eredivisie clubs, then wheels will be in motion for Celtic to be in the Portugese league this year. Personally, I would rather see Celtic vs Ajax than Celtic vs Porto, but both are more appealing that Celtic vs Ross.
While the SPL and SFA have One Foot in the Grave, Celtic might just have One Foot in the Algarve.
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/24054244561/should-celtic-stay-or-should-they-go
Steinreigned
Wonder if there’s a name for that?
So the DR print about Neil Lennon tax scheme failure but still no mention of Sir Walter.
I’m just glad i don’t buy that rag anymore, didn’t realise there was so many hun lovers in Scotland.
Sannabhoy
Wretched news ….aye right…GIRFUT …
bournesouprecipe on 27 July, 2012 at 09:20 said:
John Browns latest meeting with Charles Green couldn’t have gone very well at all.
A Celtic supporter saw Bomber get into his car, where he Kung Fued the dashboard of his car so hard the airbag went off and squashed him to the back of the seat.
_______________________________________________________
This is the real story, not the manufactured story.
I have not even read the story about Neil. I doubt one person, who has full Faith could go through 1 week without ‘sinning’. Obviously others could do that easily.
philvisreturns on 27 July, 2012 at 10:07 said
No that wouldn’t be tax avoidance because you are not avoiding paying tax on petrol you’ve purchased. You’ve simply chosen to spend less on petrol because it too expensive.
To stick with your fuel analogy tax avoidance would be the old farmer trick of filling the car with red diesel.
You’re too clever to be making these statements in anything other than jest, so I suspect I’ve been hooked like a stupid mackerel.
What happened to the Liga Orangina money?
Or has that all been sunk in El Coupo de Ramsden’s?
philvisreturns on 27 July, 2012 at 10:36 said:
What sort of a fee do you think Neil Lennon will have paid to join this scheme?
bournesouprecipe on 27 July, 2012 at 10:37:
“Wonder if there’s a name for that?”
Several.
BSR- yes Paul looked very “polished” in his interview with TH.
Hope you are enjoying the sun, is it safe to take the iPad onto the beach?
I love the ole Algarve, and there is a stadium at Faro, built for Euro2004, which is barely used.
It maks sense tae me, and it maks sense tae birthday bhoy Mo.
Philvis,
I do agree with the main thrust of your argument that for any tax paying entity we have simply compliant or non-compliant, simplifies matters.
HH
Henrik
DR………………………Walter set to light Olympic flame.
“Glenbuck on 27 July, 2012 at 10:26 said:
An argument being promoted by Gideon Osborne, Boris Johnson, Berlusconi & Barclays. You keep good company. ”
And the opposite is happily advocated by Joe Stalin, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, and Arthur Scargill
Nice company you keep, too.
DBBIA
That’s a bit of bad luck,still,if the actual game doesn’t collide with the reason you’ve made the trip and you can get to watch the ole green n white saltire I can suggest a few venues if your stuck (although I know you’ll be in good company).
Walter, and the loyal Smeato, foils Al Queda terror plot to Olympics.
In addition DR exclusively reveals that following death of OBL Neil Lennon is now head of world’s most feared terrorist organisation.
bournesouprecipe on 27 July, 2012 at 10:44 said:
Henrik
DR………………………Walter set to light Olympic flame.
share on F’book or Twitter
LoL.
Maybe we should do what they do in Norway.
Publish everyone’s tax return online.
Lennon n McMj- planning on meeting ole Tom next Friday night.
Any suggestions for places to eat much welcomed, we’re staying in town centre.
Goldstar
Ha- Celtic hot news?
I’m in a golfers paradise you and ole EuroChamps would love this place. Guy told me, times are tough
though here in Spain and the club members received a demand for 3,000 Euros.
Still weathers nice, see you soon for the Dons :-)
sannabhoy on 27 July, 2012 at 10:36 said:
Who? Killie or Sevco?
Are SB sales up overall in the SPL? How do Killie sales match those of other clubs who respected their fans wishes? I’d be interested to know.
I’m finding this all quite taxing………..
I can see ol’ ernie and philvis both have good points to make.
I am in favour of schemes which encourage people to invest for the benefit of the country as a whole. If that money is used to help investment in the economy, that’s fine by me. However, if you are investing money which is then recycled and at the end you receive a massive profit, you should be very wary.
There are a lot of snake oil salesmen out there in the tax/investment world who target wealthy individuals for the own gain. I am sure those who advised Neil about his scheme did pretty well out of it. If you are “investing” money but there is no obvious way in which your money is growing e.g., no increase in share prices, it is probably a”get rich quick” scheme and you should not be involved in it.
On the basis that the failure to be granted the transfer of membership of the SFA today could make all my sums irrelevant (or even mopre irrelevant) I present my calculations as to what the Rangers FC budget might realistically be, and how it could afford to meet its bills.
It might not be as horrendous as it first appears, but still even bare survival would depend on a huge amount of support from the Rangers fans, and with the best will in the world, would any team be able to maintain the attendances needed in these circumstances?
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/rangers-fc-in-2012-2013-could-it-survive-financially/
The Pantaloon Duck on 27 July, 2012 at 10:23 said:
” I thought it said that his Counsel was John Cooper Clarke QC. There’s a trial I would like to see”
Excellent, I nearly fell off ma chair there.
“What kind of creature bore you
Was is some kind of bat
They can’t find a good word for you,
but I can…
SEVCO”.
.
We all know, and have known for years, that the Scottish msm, red tops and so-called ‘quality papers, are infested with journos who have a blatant anti-Celtic agenda: some make no attempt to hide it, while others will, on occassion, give grudging praise to Celtic; but you know, deep down, that they are hurting!
There are too many to list here, but we all know who they are and so do they! They expect us to believe that they support clubs like Airdrie and St Mirren: they really think that we button up the back!
At a time when Scottish football is going through its worse crisis in history, all caused by the lies, corruption and dishonesty of one club aided and abetted by their ‘brothers’ in the footballing hierarchy, they still find the time to report on the activities of Neil Lennon. Yes they will always find the time to write about ‘thugs and thieves’, display a broken Celtic crest for having lost some meaningless friendlies, and ridicule people like wee Fergus (God bless him), Wim Jansen and Dr Jo to name but a few!
They are truly despicable people with no moral fibre whatsoever, and their musings should be consigned to the dustbin of history!
Thank the lord for sites like this, PhilMac, RTC and countless others!
If you want to know what’s going on in the world of ‘planet fitba’, as Phil Mac would say, ask an internet bampot! Internet bampottery rules!
HH!!
It occurs to me that it might be easier to sell season books if the fans knew when parting with their hard earned dosh that the millionaires it was going to were at least paying tax on the same basis as the rest of us.
I just cant bring myself to join the list of folks who decry legal tax avoidance
I definitely can’t and won’t take morale advise from any and even less chance of me accepting it from a Tory MP in particular
If the tory MPs would like me to tell them about the morals of the tax system then I have all day, but the clear facts are that if there is a legal existing method of avoiding tax, and people or companies use it then good for them. End of. It’s the governments and the laws job to make sure loopholes don’t exist.
Good morning CQN
Up here in the Kingdom of Fife being dragged out shopping
With the wife and daughter
What a bummer they just can’t leave a man to get on with
Reading all the posts on CQN
Will catch up later have a good day all you CQNers
Keep the Faith
Hail Hail
I see the red tops are back to hate neil lennon time
That’s what the huns fans were doing when their club was going down the plug hole. If they had spent the same amount of energy, trying to face and resolve their own problems instead, they might not be in this position
It looks like they are doing it again while Charles green prepares to drop them down another lavvy pan