Borussia Dortmund v Celtic, Live updates
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I thought Brendan chucked Greg under the bus at half time. He wasnt at fault for any of the goals
Big difference when Idah came on. He gave the players an out. Prior to him, kyogo offered nothing and wingers didn’t know to run or come short. Every player , incl captain was giving the ball away cheaply tonight. Not like them and we move on. We will bounce back!
St P – whether we need to play a bit tighter/more defensive in Scotland or not is not the point. We desperately need to in Europe. We need a coach and players and style which is either more adaptable or solely suited to Europe. That doesnt necessarily mean parking the bus domestically.
spikeysauldman- parking the bus in Scotland isn’t required, obviously in Europe it is but not happening, the embarrassing tankings continue, as I have posted ad nauseam, we cannot play 3 forwards in Europe, especially away from home.The romantic nonsense that playing a defensive team isn’t The Celtic Way is for the birds. I have been BRs biggest advocate, but if we play same set up in Atalanta, it will be the same outcome against a team from a level about x 10 to where we play. His interview was a worry for me after the game,the guy asked the same question 3 times,that we all asking. He’s not getting paid £3 million plus a year to win the SPFL.
Gordon Strachan wasn’t a bling appointment but, he had the humility to approach the euros game pragmatically (Bratislava aside).
Two last 16 in the CL is his legacy.
We have no choice in the league we play. Simples!
TEXASTIM on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 1:44 AM
Gordon Strachan wasn’t a bling appointment but, he had the humility to approach the euros game pragmatically (Bratislava aside).
Two last 16 in the CL is his legacy.
—————
Whilst in the middle of a cost-cutting drive follow Martin’s splurge on big players, who were on big wages.
Makes what WGS achieved even more impressive. I really liked him as manager. Can see why some fans didn’t like him (at first), but his achievements whilst working in that environment were second to none.
We can still make the play-off round btw. We’ll need 7 points from 9 in our 3 remaining home games and possibly a point away in the others. 11 points would likely see us in the top 24.
Melvin Udall,
Agree on Gordon – the prejudice (small p) was that we wasn’t seen as one of “us”.
I only judge our team and manager on competence and still appreciate Brendan’s impact but he has to understand the limitations he and all of us are faced with.
The morning after the night before.
Disappointed. Sadly, not too surprised.
Buzarre to think we start against Dortmund with the same team which started against St Johnstone.
To me, that defies logic.
Inflexible? Naive?
In a sign of the polarisation of teams in the CL, there were 3 x 4-0 defeats last night and 1 x 5-0. However, our result was the stand out.
That’s not where we should be.
We need to be more tactically aware. We need to be much more mature. Wee skilful guys playing around at the back will not cut it against the big guns, who’ll simply exploit the mistakes we are less likely to be punished for domestically.
I still think we have the nucleus of an excellent team, though line up and tactics were horribly wrong last night.
Good morning all.
Some great comments there on read back.
No one is advocating parking a bus but different tactics are what should have been deployed.
Listen the outcome would have probably been the same (a defeat) but not humiliation.
We are 1 or 2 windows away from assembling a decent squad that can achieve results away in Europe.
Unless our board really do back the manager in 1 window ( which will never happen). Then BR is prattling on about not changing the way we play. Incredible.
A great manager for domestic football and will win us doubles and trebles but Europe?
This new format still allows us a cracking chance of going through but only if we change tactics away in Europe, starting with Atalanta away in October.
D. :)
Well, I didnt see that coming. !!!!!!!
HH.
D66
“We are 1 or 2 windows away from assembling a decent squad that can achieve results away in Europe”
We’d need to change manager for that to happen in Europe.
I heard on the box that last night’s result was Borussia Dortmund’s best in Europe since the 1965-66 season. That was 8-0 against Floriana (me neether) in the ECWC, which they won…..at Hampden beating Liverpool.
Looking back at my post from yesterday am saying that we could score early doors, which we did, but that the real question was to what extent we (could) reduce the number of chances BD could create against us. Well we know the answer to that question now, and some.
Dortmund won a CL group last season with AC Milan, PSG and Newcastle in it. They beat Eindhoven, Athletico and PSG en route to the Final, the latter home and away. They could have beaten Real in the final too, finding out though, that if you do not score against RM when you are on top, sooner or later they are going to score against you. Catch 22, we have a team and game to sweep all before us domestically, but we cannot attempt to pass and play out or through a team of Dortmund’s calibre, nous, power and skill. They are the real deal, may well finish in the top eight of this 36 team league. We need to be able to adapt away from home, we may be able to get something later in Zagreb, but Atalanta are up next, a team capable of beating both Liverpool and Bayer Leverkusen last season and giving Arsenal a tough game this, we need to think long and hard about how to approach that, before we go out there.
Spikey – Maybe, unless he learns and adapts, which I have my doubts as he has history.
D. :)
Good morning.,
Chucked watching at 3 last night,could see what was coming,and could not bear to watch.Went to sleep hoping it was still 5,my last check,or even they had eased up,and we sneaked 1 or 2 back to make it a bit respectable.Been reading back,and the general consensus is to park the bus away in Europe.Probably correct.Problem is,we don’t have the players to do it.We dont ,ever,play that way.We don’t face this level of player very often.
The Milan’s,Atleticos,of this world,its in their DNA.First,dont lose.Defenders are brought up in this thinking early on in their academies,all over Europe.They become adept at it,and add it to their natural skill.They then pit their skills against forwards who have be honed in their art,week in,week out.Does not happen in Scotland.6 league games,0 goals conceded,very little sweat broke,playing mostly against 1 up front,and our defenders mostly playing, nearly,
in opponents half.
Its a big problem.
Nothing wrong with dreaming. I lost a bet like I am sure many did, my cuz sent brilliant photos of the build up with his bro, one of his young nephews who will never forget the trip and other troops. The reality is that we can’t attract the best to Scotland’s league, we won’t win the champions league. We can get some CL cash from time to time. Europa league is our level. Spikeyauldman I disagree we have a team that could aim to win the second tier, with Brendan in charge and that’s from someone who didn’t want him back. I want him to keep playing as we are. We just might not be top tier CL. Hope all the hoops who made the journey enjoyed every bit of it, except the game after 1-1. Hail Hail. Here we go four in a row.
Been wondering today if the team really suffered from the loss of our defensive lynchpin Cameron.
Think we saw comparable deficiencies the last time he was out for a few games.
For Auston to go from St Johnstone to Dortmund in what… his second run out for us, is a big ask.
Not scapegoating the guy who has heaps of attributes, but the loss of CCV renders us more porous IMO.
BTW, I watched that debate today; sad to say that Vance seemed to land more points than Walz.
ONESIGHFITSALL CSC
Europe is so far out of our Grasp anyway that we might as well be jumping to reach the moon.
Do we just concentrate on further DOMESTIC domination?
Whatever your thoughts we have a tough game on Sunday, high noon against RC.
D. :)
There is a huge space between “park the bus” and “wide open”. It’s not one or the other – there is somewhere in between and that’s where we should be.
BR was wrong last night, that is undeniable but one comment was a bit much ‘he threw Taylor under the bus’ ???? No he didn’t he made a substitution….
I don’t think anyone has said park the bus?
There are different tactics that can be used.
Players position on the park when we don’t have possession etc. NOT PARKING THE BUS.
D. :)
On a night when 9 of our starting 11 could be criticised for their performance, Greg Taylor was particularly bad.
Completely out of his depth. BR shouldn’t be sending Taylor out to invert and leave swathes of empty space down our left when the ball is turnedover. I suspect we won’t see Taylor start in Italy. Valle now has his chance.
We looked far more solid when Valle came on and actually stayed in the left back area to defend.
another result like last nights and the board will tell BR to do one the next time he asks for 11M players
No knee jerk reactions required.
We made far too many simple mistakes that were punished . In Scotland we get away with siimple mistakes 90% of the time.
Poor passes got punished . In Scotland they are not.
We are dominant in Scotland . Lets cut out the easy focus and obsession with referees and concentrate on our own game and what we can do better.
Yes we have seen this script before, however we are not far away and its good that we have the opportunity to prove it.
Down but by no means out.
HH. IBWT.
GreenPinata
on the evidence of last night, we are as far away as we have ever been
The morning after the night before.Could have been a lot worse.Let’s be candid, different world between us and Dortmund.Sunday coming, three points against Ross County.
The Sparta Prague result in Stuttgart really showed us up. This is a club on 20% of our turnover, from a similar level league, drawing away to a team who took five off Dortmund very recently.
I worry about Rodgers’ comment post match, basically that he won’t change his tactics. If Brendan really means that he must be the only manager since Zagallo 1970 to adopt only an attacking 433 system, at any cost.
The manager is a smart guy but I’m astonished at his naivety, especially so after similar hammerings in Paris and Barcelona first rime round.
Dortmund are not the Barcelona of 2012 or 2016 but they did possess Adeyemi, who was allowed the time and space to run us ragged. I’ll watch Dortmund’s other home ties with interest.
This will hurt for a long time.
Our next 2 games are a tad difficult.Leipzig are a very dangerous proposition at home,after Atalanta,away.
My biggest problem today is,I hate the thought of Huns having any joy in life,and they will be ecstatic today.
Silly,I know,but I fekin detest them.Can’t be helped.
Turkeybhoy,
Dont give the huns any thought.
Dont talk about them
Dont watch them
Dont give them hits on their poxy sites.
They they cant bother you.
Simples.
On reflection, it seems Adayemi, (who was outstanding), being subsituted, allowed us somewhat into the game.
As I watched last night I was honestly praying that Dortmund would NOT get to Double Figures. They looked like scoring with EVERY Attack.
It was ” Men against Bhoys” for much of the game…sadly.
However, I would give Borderline ” Pass Marks” to KASPER, LIAM, DIAZEN and Wee ALEX VALLE.
I am not sure whether to read back or not ? I probably will at some point this morning.
HH.
they did possess Adeyemi
—-
If he doesn’t go off at the start of that second half, we could be looking at double digits.
The morning after reflection, for me the thing I most admire about Brendan Rodgers is his absolute self belief in everything he does, that it a factor in his success as a manager. However, I also think that this is probably also his biggest failing. While most of wondered during the match why there was no change in tactics which clearly were not working, he would have been thinking the players were not carrying out the plan as assigned to them, he was correct of course.
But from the outside looking in, with no coaching knowledge or achievements to mention on my part, how could he not see it was working not only against the Champions League runners up but also a team which plays against vastly superior teams than we do week in, week out, but it would not have worked against 80% of the teams in the competition. Will he learn? I doubt it because of all the terrible drubbings we have had against us in Europe he was manager in most of them.
Atalanta could be another hard watch, but domestically we do to all the other teams what Dortmund did to us, would I change this domestic domination for some European success? I’m not sure as not getting hammered in Europe almost certainly still means getting beat and have no chance of being in the final 16, never mind the final 8.
Hail, hail and onwards to Ross County!
Dortmund knew how we would play maybe they bugged our team talks it was so predictable for them, too much talk about what we would like to do maybe in pressers, as our players waited to collect a pass hit a chest or knee height they intercepted sett ing up waves of attacks , our midfield was awful a non event all of them smothered and pressed out of the game,no ball winning tackles, no creation, incapable of turning away from danger or finding a safe pass that would take the game to the opposition ,they seemed quicker and stronger all over the park, yes they got some breaks with their goals but they would have found another way to score I think, deflections penalties lack of awareness from Daizen twice cost goals, Schmeichel had some great saves but was beaten from range a couple of times too, horrible watching that, Scales dug in Daizen kept going, Valle at least tried to take his man on 1 on 1, I dont know what to do to change this but if the same fullbacks into midfield passes are attempted then we will lose a lot of ball and quality in forward areas will kill the game as a contest, they did to us what we often do to teams here so it’s on to Dingwall for a new game hopefully we will recover be focused and win.
Heading to 9:30 Mass…..do you know what?
For it’s a grand old team to play for….
One upside of last night is that Brendan will now get a mention in Paul’s next article. After being kept out of the limelight in every article so far in our (up until last night) excellent start we will be given a lecture on his failings,stubbornness etc and of course why he could have saved Pedro £20 million by accepting projects from the Korean reserve league instead of wasting hard earned money on Engels and Idah …..Bring back Kwon and Iwata….Big Pete has an eye for a player
We are still in it!
C’MON THE CELTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I suggested that the Dortmund game would be a reality check and it certainly was that.
However I’m far from despondent, we have a young team that came together four weeks ago, our rock of a centre half was missing.
Last night’s game always had the possibilities of being a step too far and so it proved, like most didn’t expect such a large deficit and expected us to trouble Dortmund far more than we did.
We have three points from two games and -2 GD, that’s not miles away from what we expected when the draw was made
Who shone on the night?
Well, despite conceding seven goals Schmeichel did, some great saves, it’s difficult to give anyone else pass marks, obviously the German’s knew young Engels and were not prepared to let him play, Kuhn was stifled – we were expecting a lot from those bhoys
The subs did well, Valle looks a player, Idah my preference for a start up front, hopefully we will see more of that away in Europe, Hatate though wasteful showed his class.
So winging it’s way to SENCELPOTY@GMAIL.COM
1. Schmeichel
2. Valle
3. Idah
There is only one take away from last night – we need to get better.
Hail Hail
Now is the time for cool heads.
The post from Celticmac @ 0704 more or less explains why what happened did in fact happen. It is well thought out and reminded us of the quality of the team we were playing.
Anyway onwards and upwards to Dingwall.
There is the potential for a deep effect on the players. This is a prime time for BR to show his mettle.
HH
Well that was an elite level cock up last night. For all my dislike of BR as an individual, last years CL games gave me some hope that the boring football I watched for most of last season might suit European games/CL better than Ange ball.
This season the football has got much better than last season which gave me greater hope but also a fear that the ego would takeover again and we’d see more BR Mk 1 CL approach + results such as the 9-0 and 12-1 aggregates to Barca and PSG.
When I saw the line up with Bernardo I hoped he would go with 2 sitters at least in mid with Engels a 10 and leave the full backs to defend. It quickly became apparent that it was Mk1 all over. Disappointing.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me umpteen times then what?
For all the tactical approach looked self destructive, the individual mistakes were equally costly. A lucky deflection to make it 2-1. Maeda giving the ball away twice for 2 instant strikes from outside the box and AJ careless on another occasion, not to mention the strike that nutmegged two CBs.
Bad night all round. Only positive was that it drove me to drink and that my eldest was still singing Celtic songs at HT and FT – much credit to the fans there who I could hear throughout the game despite what they were seeing.
Bring on Ross County, and here’s hoping the anger/hurt motivates the players more than the hiding will hit the confidence.
QB