Can History be bought, sold or transferred?


I was speaking to someone with only a notional interest in football last week who complained about football fans logic on several fronts including the notion of History.

I was asked, “What does it matter if a Rangers Newco playing at Ibrox being supported by the same people have an intangible claim to what happened in the past?

“Their memories remain, they cannot relive the past, what matters most is the future.”

Only a non-football fan could think like this, of course.  History is the context for whatever happens today, without it, the game is diminished, but we are now in a fascinating debate.  In practical terms, Rangers history could become quite a burden with the next few weeks.

The SPL are currently undertaking an inquiry into alleged illegal registration of players at Rangers during the 13 years before Craig Whyte rescued the club from the old board.  Hundreds of football matches could have been played, many trophies ‘won’ with footballers ineligible to play.

If these allegations are proven, games involving ineligible players will be marked as 3-0 defeats.  So much for the history, but what about the punishment?

Our friends at STV suggest that the SPL hold the view that the transfer of a league share from a liquidated company to a Newco would inherit historical rights from the liquidated party’s past.  For Rangers Newco, this would include penalties for around 500 games played by Rangers FC with invalidly registered footballers.

The tariff of which could sink even the healthiest balance sheet.

But still, if liquidated, Rangers FC, founded around 1872 and incorporated in 1899 would cease.  Newco can play wherever they like, it would be a new club.  The law would protect it from misdeeds of the old company while any assets, such as the badge design, film archive or historic Arsenal shares could be purchased by any third party, including Newco.  And before you bid, owning the badge design does not make you Rangers any more than if you acquired Rangers SPL share.

We’ve been told you can buy and sell history in recent weeks which is clearly nonsense but in finding a path through this subject you need to ask what is in the power of each and any organisation or group to affirm.

The SPL can transfer a share in the league and, in conjunction with the SFA, player registrations.  Both can also impose outstanding disciplinary measures.

Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.

Craig Whyte can sell the stadium independent of all of the above.

No one can sell, buy or transfer 140 years of history, which is why football fans recoil at suggestions of a Newco replacing their team.

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  1. Monaghan1900 on 12 April, 2012 at 15:56 said:


    From FF. They’re never exactly happy. Now it’s the end for Protestants:




    I feel that Declan has been posting on FF again, the lhad is incorrigible. Regardless of the authors identity he is without doubt a comedy genius.

  2. Paul67 do you think UEFA will take a hand in all of this?






    Maybe they could start attending church on a Sunday and learning Christian ethics. Or do TRUE Protestants not do that sort of thing?



    Stupid huns…

  3. I grew up believing “cheats never prosper”.


    It’s an ethos I have tried to pass on to my children.


    These cheat, their apologist and those who try to assist them cheat and lie their way out of this, have diminished the sport in Scotland.


    Even if they do not succeed they have diminished it because they have tried.


    What they will not do is diminish Celtic.

  4. Hi Paul,



    ”Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.”



    Does that badge include 5 stars? I always thought they sought permission from UEFA to contrive this honour.

  5. Paul67,


    sorry if you have answered earlier,any idea on when we might


    hear from our club on these proposals,and have you any info on


    what measures we might take,


    cheers in advance

  6. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on




    if Celtic elect to play a newco next year then they will.



    Hail Hail

  7. I know a good few orcs and they are seeing this as the death of the Gers. If liquidated the team they love are gone no Newco will replace that. They also believe tha PL has been instrumental in the SPL toughening their stance and giving in to Celtic.

  8. Monaghan1900 on 12 April, 2012 at 15:56 said:


    ”From FF. They’re never exactly happy. Now it’s the end for Protestants:



    “After they kill Rangers the apathetic Protestants in Scotland will not be safe.


    Laugh if you will [Thanks, don’t mind if I do], but this isn’t a sporting matter far less a laughing one.”




    That’ll be the end for our supporters bus then.



    Without the Proddies I reckon we’d go from a 50 seater to a people carrier.

  9. Well if they want to keep the history of trophies ‘won’ tainted or otherwise, legal or otherwise, they have to keep ALL of their history



    including the ‘sacking’ and ‘rampaging’ of places such as Manchester, Barcelona, Birmingham, Newcastle…….. to name but a few,



    As you said Paul their history could become quite a burden over the next few weeks! It has been a burden on Scotland for more years than our lifetimes!!!

  10. Chairbhoy on 12 April, 2012 at 16:16 said:


    Hi Paul,


    ”Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.”



    Does that badge include 5 stars? I always thought they sought permission from UEFA to contrive this honour.



    It this the five stars that were visible through the toilet windae when they got their trophy?

  11. Paul,



    Like the tenor and the details of the article, but when, in relation to the inquiry into illegal registration of players, you say …”If these allegations are proven, games involving ineligible players will be marked as 3-0 defeats” then I must assume that you have been taking some mind-altering substances this pm.



    SFA/SPL actually impose that stain on THEIR history? I would love it, but think it aint going to happen. If they did then that would open up a new can of really tasty worms, namely “what do we now do with the titles/cups they gained while playing those inelegible players”?. I and you and we know what SHOULD be done, but we also know what they will do, and that is nought, zilch, nada, hewhaw?



    We are all experts at looking back, but last season you asked that Regan be given a bit of time to sort out the institutional mess that is the SFA. I said at the time I didn’t think he was either up to it or up for it. Recent developments, and in some cases non-developments, seem to be leaning toawrds my conclusion.

  12. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on

    Editor-in-chief role axed at Scotsman Publications



    Several Johnston Press titles have seen an editorial shake-up this week


    Continue reading the main story



    The regional publisher said it was part of a move to create a flatter and more efficient management structure.



    Mr McLellan has been placed on leave while negotiating his future.



    Johnston Press recently delayed announcing its most recent results while discussing its large debts with lenders.



    Mr McLellan was the fifth editor of The Scotsman since 2000.



    The paper’s sales have been in long-term decline – a trend which shows few signs of levelling off.



    In February, The Scotsman’s circulation fell below 38,000 for the first time in living memory. As recently as January 2007 it sold 60,000 copies a day while in 2001 its sales sometimes reached 90,000.



    ‘Placed on leave’


    In a statement, Johnson Press said Mr McClellan’s role as editor-in-chief of The Scotsman Publications Ltd would cease to exist.



    It continued: “The editors of each title will report directly to the managing director of the Scottish Publishing Unit.



    “John McLellan has been placed on leave and is in consultation with the company.



    “Further announcements on the editorship of The Scotsman will be made in due course.”



    Other Johnston Press titles in the north of England have also seen senior editorial cuts.



    This week Simon Reynolds left as editor of the Lancashire Evening Post.



    Johnston Press will also merge the editorships of the Yorkshire Post and the Yorkshire Evening Post.

  13. The Token Tim on

    If Liquidated, they are no more.



    their history will remain in the history books as will the trophies (until the tainted ones are removed) a la Renton, Third Lanark etc, but they will never be added to.


    Past Tense. Thats all RFC will be.



    Any Newco MUST be starting from scratch!






  14. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 12 April, 2012 at 16:16 said:



    I wish I could whole heartedly disagree Awe_Naw.


    However, if Celtic make every effort to stop this travesty then I will back them.


    I do mean every, court if needed, but UEFA must be asked to get involved.


    I have said before I would rather watch Celtic take on a Harlem Globe Trotter approach than allow us to be cheated like this. By “us” I mean the fans of every club and supporter in the game, from amateur to top flight.



    I did think when this was first muted I would never return nor watch, but I find the thought of giving up Celtic too much. Unless that is they are complicit.

  15. probably been asked before…..



    if they are in administration at the start of next season and the new proposals are ratified on 30th april, does that mean that every victory they get for the rest of this season costs them one extra minus point for next?

  16. “Two contracts? EBTs? But that was just Murray and Whyte and that Oldco, We are the shiny clean Newco. Why do we have five stars on our jersey? Because we’ve won fifty titles of course.”



    They want to have their cake, not pay for it and yet eat it regardless.

  17. If Celtic were in this situation, how would WE as fans feel about supporting Celtic Newco? Would it (supporting Celtic Newco) feel just the same as supporting the current team does?




  18. Chairbhoy:


    The stars can be added by anyone as part of a badge.


    Dont think permission is required from anyone.



    Man City added two stars above the City of Manchester Crest that they use as a club badge ‘because they looked nice’.


    Aberdeen also have two stars ,one to mark their European Cup Winners Cup and the other for the subsequent win in the following seasons Super Cup !!


    As one of our contributors here ,by way of his Blog Name, attests


    “One Star Means More”





    The Onlooker

  19. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on

    Doc is Neil Lennon on 12 April, 2012 at 16:22 said:



    I agree with every word of that.



    Hail Hail

  20. The Battered Bunnet on

    Awe Naw



    From earlier, been manically busy workwise lately, which is good for the bank balance, but curtails the time spent on the site here.




  21. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on




    Sounds like you could be a millionaire before the year is over ;-)



    Hail Hail

  22. The only organisation that can act meaningfully in the present situation is Celtic.


    However, to act meaningfully would involve folding up the wigwams and saying cheerio to the SFA, the SPL and Scottish society in general. This simply is not going to happen. My guess is that DD and PL will make some placatory noises towards outraged Celtic fans and then simply make the best of it.

  23. A Son of Dan @16.14 said “do you think UEFA will take a hand in all of this?”



    Nope! The mighty, moral UEFA have fined Man City £8000 more for kicking off a Euro tie 1 minute (that’s ONE minute) late than they fined Porto for their fans racially abusing Balotelli! I know, abusing Balotelli seems ok because he’s a fud, but racial abuse is supposed to be a giant no no. Just shows you, eh.

  24. Looks Like Alex thompson is going to be on Clyde tonight and it looks like he’s brewing for a fight with the hacks who have publicly decried his work and the validity of his claim that he was threatened, Mark Guidi, step forward for a boot in the baws please!!!!

  25. They’ll lose their history so far as official records go but that won’t affect the hun mentality.



    They’ll just regard it as further proof that the world is controlled by Papish conspirators whose whole purpose is to undermine them.



    They will still be The Peepul and will continue to wear with pride the five stars on their figure hugging XXXXXL tops.



    The way things are looking though they won’t be losing much else, apart from around £140m of debt.

  26. JJ






    You have to love the SPL logic…..every team that plays them for the rest of this season can gain 1 point on them next simply by losing to them in a remaining game….



    Sporting Integrity – Doncha just luvitt!

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