I was speaking to someone with only a notional interest in football last week who complained about football fans logic on several fronts including the notion of History.
I was asked, “What does it matter if a Rangers Newco playing at Ibrox being supported by the same people have an intangible claim to what happened in the past?
“Their memories remain, they cannot relive the past, what matters most is the future.”
Only a non-football fan could think like this, of course. History is the context for whatever happens today, without it, the game is diminished, but we are now in a fascinating debate. In practical terms, Rangers history could become quite a burden with the next few weeks.
The SPL are currently undertaking an inquiry into alleged illegal registration of players at Rangers during the 13 years before Craig Whyte rescued the club from the old board. Hundreds of football matches could have been played, many trophies ‘won’ with footballers ineligible to play.
If these allegations are proven, games involving ineligible players will be marked as 3-0 defeats. So much for the history, but what about the punishment?
Our friends at STV suggest that the SPL hold the view that the transfer of a league share from a liquidated company to a Newco would inherit historical rights from the liquidated party’s past. For Rangers Newco, this would include penalties for around 500 games played by Rangers FC with invalidly registered footballers.
The tariff of which could sink even the healthiest balance sheet.
But still, if liquidated, Rangers FC, founded around 1872 and incorporated in 1899 would cease. Newco can play wherever they like, it would be a new club. The law would protect it from misdeeds of the old company while any assets, such as the badge design, film archive or historic Arsenal shares could be purchased by any third party, including Newco. And before you bid, owning the badge design does not make you Rangers any more than if you acquired Rangers SPL share.
We’ve been told you can buy and sell history in recent weeks which is clearly nonsense but in finding a path through this subject you need to ask what is in the power of each and any organisation or group to affirm.
The SPL can transfer a share in the league and, in conjunction with the SFA, player registrations. Both can also impose outstanding disciplinary measures.
Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.
Craig Whyte can sell the stadium independent of all of the above.
No one can sell, buy or transfer 140 years of history, which is why football fans recoil at suggestions of a Newco replacing their team.
Can you write an article for CQN Magazine? Give me a shout, celticquicknews@gmail.com
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miki67 on 12 April, 2012 at 19:49:
Nail on the head and something which is not highlighted often enough…guilty, guilty, guilty that is what they are. The FTT is their appeal against their sentence, which is life means life…dead club walking.
If and I mean IF they win, £ to penny HMRC will appeal and there the Merry-go-round goes around again…it could be a long time before we see a newco, if at all.
Best Laurel and Hardy movie of all time…another fine mess…:)
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Can anyone point me to the business case that demonstrates Dundee united, Killie etc will go to the wall if Rangers are liquidated?
Can anyone tell me why these provincial clubs are already in a perilous state?
Can anyone tell me why Neil Doncaster agreed to a contract with SKY knowing the state Rangers were in yet concluded a ‘short version’, (his words) which stated Rangers had to play Celtic on 4 occasions per season for the figures to be realised?
So how do you guarantee that New rangers on minus 10 points with a squad full of boys finish in the top 6? Will we need to scrap the split now as well?
Again, where is the business case… any sort of spreadsheet, basic arithmetic that demonstrates league minus Rangers??
bournesouprecipe on 12 April, 2012 at 19:33 said:
Ragers fans set to boycott as three penalties per game are too infrequent
>>>>>>>!
absolutely true,my friend!
btw…..do you live in Bournemouth?
i do.
I dont know why we continually quote all the rules on here , the governors of scottish football change whatever suits their agenda in the name of rescue for rangers f.c as we have recently seen . We have read posts from nearly everyone registered on CQN , from fan sites of other clubs , we have heard from tv journalists . we have guys calling radio phone ins , we have heard from everyone .EXCEPT THE LEADERS OF OUR CLUB . All we ask is a wee word of encouragement to give us hope, that they are watching and keeping their eye on the ball .a bit of encouragement for the masses who throng to follow the team and are at present getting shafted from all corners . We have on our board men of substance . and wealth . i would imagine they are backed up by an army of legal eagles . i pray to god they are working on behalf of the men ,women and children who eat sleep and drink this club of ours . A club who at present are under attack from people who will sink to lower levels to keep one club afloat .
JIMTIM.
Their guilt is unquestionable….it’s just the degree to be established.
I imagine The Masonic Tendency will determine THAT.
Plus ça change…..to get all pretentious. HH!
Jim Traynor on BBC thought a Div 3 start would be good for Newco (and the divison) His argument is that they should be happy to ditch their history (no Catholics etc) he actually said that, and that they could climb their way back up on small wage contracts whilst Celtic were stuck with large contracts they could not escape.
I subscribe to all of this although Celtic could sell a few of their players for big money and of course have UEFA money for three years to meet the contract cost.
Interesting it came from Traynor.
Listening to both Clyde and BBC by switching durinfg adverts I detected a bit of reality emerging on accepting Div 3 for a Newco.
Good afternoon bhoys and ghirls
Been in my bed with flu since our victory but maintained sanity reading CQN. Now if this cheats charter comes to pass then Aberdeen or Killie should go for it. What an opportunity to get rid of a debt level that they could never repay and at what a cheap price -10 points and only 25% sponsor cash but you still have the gate money. Looking at the table today they would still avoid the drop, its a gamble but a good one, and bang goes the integrity of the whole of scottish football!!
miki67
No, I don’t but sometimes I wish I did, – it’s a very nice place.
HMRC will win the FTT. If the huns did get a result then HMRC haave made it clear that they will appeal and pursue them. The orcs are the lab rats on this as HMRC have bigger fish to fry in engerlund so they will go all the way.
No newco no oldco everybody happy in a hun free world just like on a certain bloggers mountain.
HH
Bada bing
Are you on mate.
If watching the Scotland England on sky 2 the wee fella Craig 4 is my neighbour and my boy’s best mate, interested to see how he does
jimtim on 12 April, 2012 at 20:04 said:
Celtic will be best to wait for the FTT to rule. They will then be able to surf home their arguments on a wave of moral outcry.
The Silver Heided Surfer
Until we meet again…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
last year,,make a law to get timmy..
this year allow orcs back into top flight….
I love Scotland…
Kris Commons says he’s confident his form up turn continuing, using the pie as you play system that Celtic adopted for him.
Greggs CSC
blantyretim on 12 April, 2012 at 20:13 said:
bt ,know your place………………backothebus.
bournesouprecipe on 12 April, 2012 at 20:06 said:
>>>><<<<
i moved here 11 years ago,and i visit Glasgow when i can,and always catch a match when the season's in full swing. i get homesick & nostalgic for the old place (i loved growing up there) but horizontal rain usually cures me of that.
visiting Celtic Park is like going on pilgrimage. there's no stadium or atmosphere like it anywhere on the planet. even Barca @ The Camp Nou doesn't compare,and i mean that.
* Tries again *
Kris Commons says he’s confident of his form upturn continuing, using the pie as you play system that Celtic adopted for him.
Greggs CSC
Mullet and Co on 12 April, 2012 at 20:01 said:
You can pick out an answer to your points in this I posted on KDS.
No I think Spiers highlights one of the core issues.
Doncaster will get rewarded in his pay on the commercial success of Rangers and this can lead to deals that compromise integrity. The TV deal if it indeed required 4 Celtic v Rangers games is such an example, what if Rangers were relegated would that not apply because of such a deal? (Not suggesting this was how it was specified but imagine Doncasters bonus went up considerably for sealing a deal, would he be swayed by the rewards?
It is for this reason the SFA need to stand for and uphold sporting integrity and so far they have not done their job. They have the power under national club licensing rules to withold a license, should have done so already in fcat, but would have to award a Newco a license .
Quite how they do so under existing rules will be difficult, as will justifying any change to UEFA, as club licensing is based on UEFA FFP principles and UEFA will not want them compromised, Platini has staked his reputation on FFP.
SPL clubs are BOUND by SFA licensing rules (I’ve checked) Part 3 of National Club Licensing para 3.9) so the SFA have the power and will be called to exercise it sooner or later.
If Doncasters job is to push the commercial agenda, it is Regan’s job not to let him push it too far.
This only happened because the SFA did not police their own rules and that happened because the SFA forget their responsibility to football.
Good evening friends.
Mrs Baldie having a girls night in the main room so what’s a man to do but to sit in the back room, pour a little glass of red and re-watch last Saturday’s game and title celebrations.
It’s a hard life right enough. Kick off scheduled for 8.45. Might take a note of our fine supporters’ “set list” and post it later. Seem to remember Craig Burley getting a few mentions ;-)
Jobo
Anyway,all the Ranker canker to one side….we’ve got a semi-final against the minis this w/end! And we are gonnae GUB them. We have a great young team,and a fascinating European campaign to look forward to. If N.L. can hold on to our best players & keep the momentum going we can do ourselves proud . Maybe a re-run of Seville is not unthinkable.
miki67
I like Bournemouth especially the Palm Trees and English Riviera environment , and the pubs certainly beat Chapmans – just ask Voguepunter.
HH
By alanmac on teh HB – Spiers vs Dawyll.
http://soundcloud.com/jinkylarsson/andy-gets-spiers-and-king
VP
the emergency exit is at the back of the bus….
bournesouprecipe on 12 April, 2012 at 20:20 said:
What happened to the palm trees in ole Burnside?
Has the the place run down since we toffs left?
blantyretim on 12 April, 2012 at 20:21 said:
VP
the emergency exit is at the back of the bus….
—————————————————————–
Get the bus to the Halfway,you need that exit.
walkingdeadC.S.C
this will go through,the behind the scenes meetings have been held and it suits the majority of the gang of ten.
Within 3 months , Aberdeen,DUFC , Killie and Dunfermline will go down the newco route as well. The only losers will be the banks, HMRC and the army of smalll debtors and the honest teams.
I am hoping against hope that our club has a plan B.
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 12 April, 2012 at 20:10 said:
jimtim on 12 April, 2012 at 20:04 said:
Thank you for your reply . you will know by reading the posts our people dont know how this is going to pan out for us, never mind them . The whole country with the exception of ra peeple, are mortified with these proposals . and if one thing has been made perfectly clear to me , it is that the governance of scottish football is in an untenable situation, as they have shown no neutrality to any of the other football clubs in this country . It must also now be aware to everyone that leaving the findings of the dual contract investigation in their hands is also not a good idea .
jimtim
ibleedgreen&white
that link isn’t opening for me
VP
The Battered Bunnet still swings on a hammock between two Palm Trees, tweeting away on his laptop.
Then he jumps into his green and chrome Hummer on matchdays, belts down the brae, and grabs the last parking space in Nuneaton St.
Toffs CSC
sparkleghirl on 12 April, 2012 at 20:29 said
Try this.
http://soundcloud.com/jinkylarsson/
ernie lynch, yes thanks, that works :)
Aye….it’s alright here in Bournemouth. There are quite a few Tims here. There is the odd hun…he just skulks about. lol!
And….you can wear Celtic clobber with impunity!
Hearing Darrell King’s amazing assertion that natural justice & morals somehow don’t fit Rangers case, I despair for Scottish football.
@mcnallymirror
miki67 on 12 April, 2012 at 19:49 said:
”It is driving me INSANE : this rubbish about how IF Rankers get found guilty of tax crimes ; they’ve ALREADY been found guilty,guilty,guilty. The FTT is an APPEAL against that guilt”
That’s a bit of a misaprehension.
HMRC have told the huns they owe tax.
The huns deny they owe the tax and the FTT will decide which of them is right.
The huns haven’t yet been found guilty of anything (or if they have the decision hasn’t yet been made public).
It’s a bit like some being charged with a crime and pleading not guilty.
They’re not guilty until the court finds them guilty.
jimtim on 12 April, 2012 at 20:27 said:
When the dust settles we must not lose sight of the failure to govern and ask for an Official Enquiry to try and correct matters. I hope Celtic demand this.
It makes sense in any business but not in football that is of the stupid tendency.
ernie lynch on 12 April, 2012 at 20:39 said:
~~~~~
I see….I get it now. Ta for reducing my insanity quotient!
HH!
Evening bhoys, as ever it’s hun free on the mountain range.
Any news on the injured players, I know young James is struggling, any updates on the others ?
Thanks in advance.
anyone know when the st renewals normally go out?