I was at a lecture in Glasgow a few years back on certain mental health conditions when the presenter claimed 1% of the population met the criteria for psychopathy. In a theatre with 700 people, he noted, that meant 7 of us.
My mind immediately did the sum; 1% of 60,000 people: 600! You would think 600 psychopaths littered through a football stadium would create mania, but it doesn’t work like that. Even psychopaths learn to moderate their behaviour to conform in most circumstances. The power of those around them is important.
I was not at Tannadice on Monday and did not hear any of the offensive material I am assured was sung by some in the Celtic support. This was an issue (although not always viewed as a problem) for decades, before the move the new Celtic Park stopped it. That hiatus ended in 2011 when we listened to Oldco fans signing their songbook at Hampden, convinced the book would be thrown at them, before hearing then-Justice Secretary, Kenny MacAskill, praise fans for their behaviour. The floodgates have never been completely closed since.
What matters most is not that you have some who stand among you who are prepared to tarnish your reputation, but how everyone else responds. If even psychopaths moderate their behaviour, the almost universal condemnation of the behaviour Celtic fans have shown since Monday will help us police ourselves. All of us who care about Celtic, have a responsibility to raise our voice.
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Timbhoy163
Think you’ve previously asked this on a couple of occasions – so to provide an answer
Haven’t got a clue.
Thank you Paul, and all those who back him to the hilt. This particular scab on the reputation of our great club has to be addressed, and swiftly.
I have commented in the past on the 1% of our support who inflict harm and bring shame on the club. The 1% who cost the club hundreds of thousands of Euros in fines and jeopardise our participation in UEFA competition. The 1% who want to dictate policy to the club and generally use Celtic Park as a platform for their political dogma. All this has been indulged and mostly ‘swept under the carpet’ because they make ‘good noise’ and quote: “the atmosphere wouldn’t be the same without them”.
Well now the atmosphere at home and away is being polluted by ‘bad noise’ – with sectarian and other inappropriate singing – if you can call these horrible lyrics singing.
This 1% have the “assumption of infallibility” – being so certain they are right that they take it upon themselves to settle the Celtic view and approach on all matters to the exclusion of everyone else.
You are right Paul, it is time for the 99% to raise their voices to drown & drum these people out. Those who drag the good name of Celtic through the mud are not supporters – they are detractors, financially & reputationally.
GARYGILLESPIESHAMSTRING on 16TH MARCH 2022 1:56 PM
I object to people ruining good rebel songs by introducing offensive add ons or altering the lyrics to include offensive versions.
Leave them as the writers intended please.
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Agreed. The add on for Joe McDonnell changes the entire chorus to something it is not intended to be.
Yep we are a club who promote tolerance as to most of our supporters. Lots of Protestants or people from Protestant backgrounds support Celtic and it is appalling that they have to listen to this rubbish.
The Club need to do more than wring their hands on this issue. I often travel on the train to Celtic Park with two guys from Protestant backgrounds. Both are Celtic daft and have supported Celtic for years as did their fathers because they couldn’t stand Rangers.
My fear is that these songs will discourage future supporters from following the club.
TIMBHOY163 on 16TH MARCH 2022 1:53 PM
Just for a change of Topics ,has any of you boys heard about The Hotel Ticket Office,Musuem,and the upgrade to Barrowfield Training Ground .
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Yes they are going to be built under the new main stand and will link up with the tunnel to Glasgow City Chambers and the Vatican!
In all seriousness does anyone know if the outline planning permission for the above (not the tunnel to Chamber and the Vatican as they are already there) has ever progressed more than just outline planning permission? Are there planning restrictions in Glasgow/Scotland about how long you can hold on to planning permission before you have to either start the build or lose it and have to apply for permission again?
TIMBHOY163
A couple of months ago I was told that construction had been delayed by the pandemic and setting foundations can only start after the last home game of the season, so hopefull it will be this summer.
Carl Starfelt called up to the Swedish squad. Craigan’s raging his constant whining has been ignored.
Big Gio back in the Greek squad.
HH
McPhail
In England it’s usually 3 years from detailed planning permission before it expires if work hasn’t started
Aipple
I’m afraid I go have to admit to referencing the queen and her son during the singing of the merry ploughboy
in the past.
Notwithoutsin csc
The term psychopath is no longer in use in a clinical setting to label the particular pattern of behaviour, attitudes etc which would formally resulted in that label being attached to an individual.
The two main Manuel’s for describing mental health conditions are the DSM V and ICD 10/11.
Both acknowledge a type of personality that would previously have been described as pychopathy.
Current terms are either Anti Social personality disorder or Dissocail personality disorder depending on which manual you consult.
DSM is in common usage in America, being produced by the American Psychiatric Association, whereas ICD 10 is more commonly used in the UK and much of the rest of the world, and is produced by he WHO.
The issue of personality disorders generally is a contentious one and subject to much debate in mental health. There is now a growing call to moving away from the large number of Personality disorder to a more phenomological approach to their categorisation, which in itself is controversial.
I’m my experience there are many people you will encounter in life who have traits of any number of personality disorders but who, nevertheless, lead fruitful lives and who do not feel the need to sing that soon there’ll be no protestants at all.
Commenting on a social media blog will do the square root of sod all to bring about any change in the singing at games.
The people attending the away games who do this can be identified, threatened with loss of ticketing privileges and their co-travellers who disapprove will ensure the add ons to On The One Road will stop. The vast majority of buses police themselves well.
But, distasteful as some find it, we should not add Catholic Hymns or Traditional Rebel songs to the Watchlist because then there would be rebellion and dissent. The club and Supporter’s association can sort this rapidly if they have the will.
It will not be solved on here and it is patently not the Green Brigade who are doing this- have any of you ever spoken to a Green Brigader?
BIG WAVY on 16TH MARCH 2022 2:37 PM
Carl Starfelt called up to the Swedish squad. Craigan’s raging his constant whining has been ignored.
Big Gio back in the Greek squad.
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While I’m no great fan of the international breaks and spend most of them worrying that our key players will pick up injuries , I’m delighted that these two have been called up .
Players who have fallen out of national squads or who have never quite got there can see that by coming to
a successful Celtic team and improving under Ange their international ambitions can also be realised . It’s a great recruitment incentive .
HH
Is there another international break coming up
Thems sing a song week in week out that the courts have deemed illegal, yet they sing it with gusto and with the full backing of the present government as Paul has reminded us of, this is where the problem lies, as I said yesterday, I would wager that if there was no racist, anti Irish-Catholic-sectarian stuff from across the river there wouldn’t be any at Celtic park, this is where the problem lies and where the problem needs to be targeted and stopped, this is not whataboutwery, it’s a simple fact.
Give them an inch etc, it will be the wearing of the green if they are allowed.
Anyone who thinks that if the add ons etc were to stop that we would get any praise or it would make-force thems to stop with their bile are deluded, IMO it would only make them worse.
The problem lies elsewhere.
Banning Orange marches would be a start.
Appeasement never has worked and never will.
TOM MCLAUGHLIN on 16TH MARCH 2022 2:32 PM
TIMBHOY163
A couple of months ago I was told that construction had been delayed by the pandemic and setting foundations can only start after the last home game of the season, so hopefull it will be this summer.
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Good to hear Tom, the current situation in particular with ticket offices is poor and with there being nowhere to go, with children is also very difficult. I often spent time in the Forge as it was dry and warm and not a pub coming from Ireland with young children.
Are the 3 structures all incorporated into one, as in will they be built at the same time, not in phases? Never heard, or I could have missed it, who the won the building contract, any news on that?
Paul is right to remind us of the responsibility politicians like McAskill have, for the permitting of “hate songs” at Hampden 2011.
Would Paul’s statistic about psycopathy hold true for Rankers followers?
The first time I went to Ibrox there was some psycopathy in the air. I was 10 years old and had persuaded my father to try to get tickets for a Celtic-Rangers match. His father knew a season ticket holder at Ibrox and he got three; for my father, my brother and me. My father had been brought up in Govan and his Aunty was still living there so we went to her house before the match for a good scottish brunch, totty scone included, to leave early to walk over to the ground at about 2.30. I can remember when we approached the ground that we were surrounded by lots of Celtic supporters and that the numbers were swelling. Traffic began to slow down and finally it came to a halt. As the fans passed by a bus they realised it was full of rangers supporters, it was a double decker bus. Firstly with good humour and then with a bit more intent the fans started rocking the bus!! Fortunately there were not enough psycopaths to see it through!!
In the ground we were in the stand with three ends in front of us, full of supporters and colours, all standing. The Celtic End was to my left and it continued under the roof of the end directly facing me. This was where the Celtic choir had positioned themselves, so that their chants could be heard better. It was visual too as there were handclaps and hands held aloft to accompany the shouts. This was in 1971 and many of the chants that day, from both ends, were related to events in Ireland. Celtic were big favourites for the match, Kenny Dalglish had just broken into the team and we couldn´t believe how good he was. He opened the scoring, Bobbie L got a second and Tom Callaghan a third. As he played on the wing, every time Jimmy Johnstone got the ball these wee old men in suits and homburg hats jumped out of their seats and started to curse and swear and insult and denigrate him. Then they would go back to being civilised members of society again until their next psycopathic outburst. Jinky had the last laugh.
TET
Don’t disagree but stopping it is the right thing to do.
I spoke to the CEO recently on the subject of the Green Brigade and he informed me that he had meetings with the GB and that the leaders are mostly young intelligent lhads who insist that they are not party to the singing or wish to sing the sectarian songs. Therefore is it appears to be young ones who gravitate to the standing area who are responsible and perhaps some in the North Circle? We must all take the responsibility and try to root out the sickness that exists among certain fans. ( I use the word fan as I do not consider the songsters to be real supporters of a Club For All.) The supporters clubs and their Associations should be more active in trying to put an end to this also.
RIMTIMTIM on 16TH MARCH 2022 3:20 PM
I think the game you mentioned was one of 3 at Ibrox at the beginning of the season, that one being the league meeting, the others being the League Cup Section games, which Celtic also won. This was due to either the new stand at Celtic Park, the Main Stand or the erection of a roof over the visitor’s end, can’t remember which it was, no doubt someone on here will put me right :)) por cierto.
The GB is responsible for the increasing use of Irish rebel and folk songs at Celtic Park, though, I’ve never ever heard them sing a sectarian or racist song ever. por cierto
I followed a link from Video Celts where Joe was doing a piece on The Rangers fans singing sectarian and racist songs. This discussion had at least 90% of contributors wanting these songs to stop and openly and widely condemned those who sang them and those who tried to defend the singing on the forum. Fairly opened my eyes, as I had never ventured onto Follow Follow before. por cierto.
The current Scottish Census asks the question of religion. I would anticipate that the majority who populate this blog would identify as Roman Catholic, irrespective of whether we receive the Eucharist on a regular basis or not. Likewise I would expect the other lot to identify as Protestant, irrespective of visits to the Kirk. They would probably prefer to identify as Not Catholic, but that option is not available.
The majority of Scots who complete the Census will identify as Not Religious. That has been the trend for decades now. I don’t know what the trend is in Ireland.
Celtic, given the national trend, is less Catholic now than at any time in our history. The days when large groups of men would congregate after Sunday morning Mass and discuss Saturday’s match, has long since past. Now it will be a very small group, if at all.
The appeal of Celtic continues, across the whole of society, and that is to be welcomed.
Good afternoon all from the Scotia Bar. 600 psychopaths? That’s Philbhoy reached our quota on his own. 😂
MCPHAIL BHOY
It’s all one joined-up structure incorporating hotel, museum, ticket office and superstore.
The council granted outline planning permission on condition that the retail unit must not be greater than 400 sq metres to protect nearby outlets (the Forge). Celtic went back and pointed out that the superstore will be selling exclusively Celtic merchandise and asked for the restriction to be lifted.
I have no knowledge of contractors.
TOM MCLAUGHLIN on 16TH MARCH 2022 4:13 PM
“Celtic went back and pointed out that the superstore will be selling exclusively Celtic merchandise and asked for the restriction to be lifted.”
Is the club still awaiting a reply on that restriction TOM? por cierto
Cup semi final is Sunday 17th 1400 kickoff.
Best celtic pub in Albufeira???
If you ever go to a home game and have your ears on the right way, you’ll realise that it’s mainly the area near the rear of 444, where the daft chants come from.
vinniethedog on 16th March 2022 4:22 pm
Jinkys.
Thanks for the reply, Tom. Yes, I too heard there was some eejit on the Council when the original planning application came before them citing all sorts of determinantal impact on local shops etc. No doubt some thick Hun pretending he represents the people when in fact he represents ra Peepil!
Av. dos Descobrimentos 1, Albufeira, Portugal
I occasionally rent an apartment just crawling distance from Jinkys, not on the strip but on the city side.
I’ll be back Covid allowing in June.
Vinnie
Erin’s Isle is up the hill from Jinkys. Great pub. Huge, though plenty of wee bar areas and TV screens. Shows all GAA
BIGRAILROADBLUES on 16TH MARCH 2022 4:05 PM
Good afternoon all from the Scotia Bar. 600 psychopaths? That’s Philbhoy reached our quota on his own. 😂
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I used to like a band called 10,000 Maniacs when i was a student
Coneybhoy, aye remember them. Phil was lead guitarist. 😂
POR CIERTO
Is the club still awaiting a reply on that restriction TOM? por cierto
Outline planning permission was granted in 2017 which included the condition that the total retail area did not exceed 1500 sqm and no single retail unit greater than 400 sqm. As I said earlier, Celtic went back and asked for one retail unit only, without the 400 sqm limit.
It looks like the club is still awaiting detailed planning permission nearly 5 years later. Detailed planning permission will provide the answer.
The Edinburgh derby on council telly meanwhile it’s more ppv for us.
Gene, surprised-not. Is Port Vale near Stoke and was Robbie Williams not a fan? Excuse my ignorance.