Yesterday @SwissRamble on Twitter dissected Celtic’s finances. His conclusions are as expected, “[Celtic] are in good shape financially… thanks to their sustainable approach, though this owes a lot to their player trading model. Champions League qualification is also important, so the expanded format should help future prospects.”
Player trading is worth exploring. We have had the Asset Management conversation on CQN since our early weeks (2004), “Manage your assets or fail to manage your assets”. Recently, when we wanted to transform our worst season in over a decade, we sold our top striker (Edouard) and our top defender (Ajer) and acquired Kyogo, Jota, Carter-Vickers and others. It’s hard to believe how controversial this was in the early days of CQN, now we have seen the evidence, everyone gets it.
There needs to be clear objectives, though, what are we managing assets for? There are two fundamental targets I think we can all agree on:
Win the league.
Qualify for the Champions League group stage.
The latter will sometimes be fulfilled by the former. After a few years in the Champions League wilderness you might have convinced yourself that this is enough. I read plenty of glowing comments from the “Just being there” brigade, reflecting in the glory of attacking against a vastly superior opponent who scored eight against us over two games.
This is not for me and I believe that it is not sustainable either. Two, maybe three, seasons of cannon fodder in the Champions League and you’ll never hear from the “Just being there” types again. We need to compete, have genuine hopes of reaching the knock out stages and I believe this is achievable.
Having lived through a quadruple treble and now two nine-in-a-rows, I don’t want to settle for a perennial nip-and-tuck title race. I don’t just want to win the league this season, I want to win the league every season. Giovanni van Bronckhorst got perilously close to delivering a European trophy for Newco. If there is any stasis around Celtic Park right now, we will soon lose our dominant position.
But how, how do we make the great leap? You can vary a few metrics around the edges, but player trading is where it’s at. This is the only route open to us, we need to be better at it (despite the plaudits from Swiss Ramble) and we need to do much more of it. Always be ready to trade, be ready to sell and have thoroughly assessed replacements lined up. Don’t wait until our top talent has one or two years left on a contract, then stalls on a new deal with an eye over the border, which is where we have been recently.
The Edouard/Ajer strategy is better than allowing players to leave on a free, or holding them on increasingly high contracts until their talents wither (see 2000-05), but it underachieves. At best, it allows stagnation, but it more commonly sees us decline.
If we want to be part of the Champions League story, if we want to go on another long run of league titles, we need to learn lessons, and you and I have had some painful lessons in recent seasons. Edouard should have been sold in 2019, two years before he actually left. Sure, there would have been distress on the comments pages here, but we kept a player who eventually became ineffective – too busy working on his next gig. We need to dare to dream big!
As well as our (now) excellent recruitment setup, Celtic need the vision and strength to up their game. Look at Ajax and Benfica, they are also trapped in small leagues, but sell players for multiples of the £24m we got for Kieran Tierney. Do this and like these clubs, we can shop for more expensive talent ourselves.
If you can think of a brilliant alternative strategy, I’m all ears, but for now, we are faced with two alternate futures: repeat the glories and inevitable decline of the O’Neill, Strachan and Rodgers eras, or increase the velocity of player trading to a level that demonstrates the courage required to be a competitive Champions League outfit.
When we embark on our Champions League campaign in September, I want to have genuine hopes of reaching the knockout stage. That will not happen without a radical overhaul of the current squad, which means selling for top money and buying more quality players. “Learning lessons” from this season’s campaign will never bridge the gap, anyone who supported Celtic through the 90s will testify to this, so let’s not pretend otherwise.
The work should be underway already, we have two transfer windows and the rare luxury of a commanding lead in the league. Celtic, you have a talented manager who works hand-in-glove with his scouting system. Aligned both to a level of ambition that would give lesser mortals a nose bleed. No more settling for “Just being there”.
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Agree with selling players at peak (but not any more than 1-2 in a single window and 2-3 max in a season.
Also agree with asset management.
So let’s manage our best asset.
This trading model is all wonderful .. but it only works if your “best asset” can select the right player from the shortlist and then make him better.
Get Ange on a 24-month rolling contract with £24m release clause.
selling manaagers and backroom staff can be profitable as well,
TURKEYBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 1:46 PM
Plenty of clubs would have bought a young striker who scored goals in the Europa league, but not at the price the Huns were asking.
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 1:48 PM
CELTIC40ME @ 1:35 PM,
Concentrate on building the squad and the team performing, if we get to the level of a Pot 3 UCL side our squad value will soar, we buy and sell as necessary.
Hail Hail
Exactly.
Selling players for top dollar is the only way forward for Celtic. At the end of the day, it’s all about timing. When does a player reach his top trade value, and do we have a replacement lined up to make sure team results don’t suffer?. One thing for sure is that January is not the time this happens in any season. January can occasionally produce a good buy when circumstances result in top players becoming available, but it’s not normal. Ange is not going to sell any of his top players if there is a risk to winning the league and qualifying for the UCL again. Summer is a different thing altogether as contracts run down and the manager has some time to re-jig his squad to accommodate player changes. Ange has been here a short time, but I feel he’s the right guy to make these decisions.
It would also be good to see more talent coming through from the academy.
Paul 67,
At last, an article advocating aspiration and ambition.
We are half of nothing, the ambition for a club of our stature must be more than staying one step ahead of the huns.
Ange’s philosophy is a breath of fresh air and I hope and trust he will do what it takes to realise our full potential.
HH our journey continues in Scotland and beyond.
this is incredible –
we’re on the one road –
—————
Perth CSC Western Australia 🍀
@AusPerthCSC
Bus for Sydney leaves Johhny Fox’s 10pm sharp
Pick ups
10.30pm Midland
4am Kalgoorlie
3am Adelaide
12pm Wagga Wagga
6pm Arrive Sydney
Seats and tickets still availble
No easy way to say this ‘no cargo till we cross the South Australian Border’👎
https://twitter.com/fitzpas/status/1592452759076630528/photo/1
Paul67 👍 Good article
Did you skip a page though?
The one with Jullien, Barkas , Bolingoli , Ajeti
The buy low sell high is the policy, has worked for Celtic , we accept that some Celtic 20k per week footballers, will eventually want 70k per week elsewhere in bigger leagues, here in the real world.
I’m glad we ‘sell our best players’ for profit some of them, should be sold before they stop contributing or their sell by date expires e.g Odsonne Edouard
Do you think Celtic should buy Kyogo for £4M?
Do you think Celtic should buy Kyogo for £4M and sell him on for a massive profit?
Only one question comes into that equation Celtic broke the barriers with Kieran Tierney the trick is to buy the right players, more often than not.
frimpong goes to the world cup.
any other ex celts ?
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 1:48 PM
Concentrate on building the squad and the team performing, if we get to the level of a Pot 3 UCL side our squad value will soar,
That’s a pipe dream I’m afraid with this group under Ange. Without big profits from player trading we don’t make enough to afford enough players who’ll raise the overall level of the squad enough, even in CL years.
We all saw how much improvement is needed to get there. Something radical has to change
“SAINT STIVS on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 2:01 PM
this is incredible –”
It certainly is. Amazing.
Were it not for the fact that this is a positive story about Celtic , the popular press would be all over this kind of `fun` stuff.
Olivier Ncham is going to the World Cup
I wonder how our scouting infrastructure and youth academy set up compares to Ajax and Benfica? If you get those two things right, selling top assets becomes sustainable.
We are relying on one man’s vision, knowledge, Drive and commitment at the moment. When he goes, that goes with him.
My own view is that one or two leaving each year would be maximum.
The rest makes complete sense.
We can see current success of rotation clearly pacing the way for this.
I am loving the apparent alignment of football dept and the financial needs.
The acid test is when we are not winning so well.
Only 31 sleeps until proper football starts again.
Well 32 actually until it’s Celtic at Pittodrie.
I agree totally Paul. If we want to compete, we need better players.
First one is a centre forward.
Your best for a while Paul. 👍
Jim O’Rourke rip
https://twitter.com/HibernianFC/status/1592464928949997568?t=0cGmV0aQCEMvKUw7P0P2CA&s=19
HH
and here it comes ,,,,,,,,,,,
Japan may look to Ange after the world cup.
will they , aye.
I think we’re at a crossroads moment for Celtic
We have an exceptionally strong financial base, a united club and a manager who isn’t only an innovative coach who gets results, he also has a vision for the club that extends far beyond his own ambition and the small minded world of Scottish football.
CELTIC40ME @ 2:08 PM,
Your arguments do intrgue me, you are no doubt passionate but the fact is we have a decade of examples to look at of what worked and what didn’t.
Under Brendan Rodgers we got into the UCL twice and became a pot 3 side and the squad value went to way over 100 million, we made record profits.
It’s not a pipedream, we did it, other Clubs do it.
But we must build from strength, this is the wrong time to go backwards, it would be another huge mistake.
Hail Hail
There are plenty of young players ,world wide,just waiting for an opportunity.
There are better and stronger players than Our Japanese stars etc.,
Good scouting and ambition is the answer .
The teams we played in Europe this years had better players than us and not all of them would cost a fortune
Strong fit fast players are what we need to progress in Europe.HH
Ange is taking 3 youth players to Oz.
With the intention of playing them.
https://www.67hailhail.com/news/ange-postecoglou-confirms-celtic-b-talents-set-to-get-first-team-game-time-shortly/
I’m on the Ange bus and thankfully retain very little emotional attachment to departing players that will be with us for a couple of seasons before being traded. Compared to the past Ange’s hit rate has been immense but no suprise. He has a style and scouts for that style, unlike our previous incarnations.
We have currently £20m + players ’emerging’ in Hatate, O’Riley, Jota, JJ, Haksa and Abada (still very young). Others will emerge. I think Abildgard could be a steal but we have early ’23 to see.
Keep the show on the road, keep winning the league and looking for value (Norway perhaps as it enters its golen generation ?)
I think purchases in January might be more indicative of who goes in the summer. Oscar Gloukh to replace O’Riley ? Yuki Kobiyashi to replace Welsh and/or Jenz. A Centre forward with a more clinical ability to replace GG or Kyogo?
Good times csc
HH
BOGNORBHOY
I presume you have seen this, but if not have a look.
Disgusting cheaper to just pump shit out to see literally.
https://twitter.com/Feargal_Sharkey/status/1592069874188443650?t=P8fElfIj4Gg4BBR8gnZHOw&s=08
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 2:24 PM
We were a pot 4 team in both CL draws under BR.
Regardless, we should be aiming far higher than Brendan Rodgers record in Europe. Not a great example.
According to Jobo’s POTY poll our top 5 players are
Hatate
Taylor
Jota
CCV
O’Riley
Our best player this season can’t get into the Japan World Cup squad, Taylor is third choice for Scotland, Jota and O’Riley can’t get into good national squads
They’re young and will have learned and improved from the experience but only CCV and O’Riley performed to the levels you’d hope to see from a CL team.
In terms of the CL I don’t think our best players are “good.” I think watching them in the SPL gives us an unrealistic picture.I also think Ange makes players better, and I don’t think replacing our best players and increasing the overall quality of the squad is as hard as we think
CELTIC40ME @ 2:53 PM,
So becoming a pot three team is a pipedream but we should be aiming higher than where we were under BR!?
We seem to be at cross purposes!!
If the “stories” are to be believed we have another recruit from Japan on the way. A centre half.
Now, will we loose a centre half in January ’cause if we do and we are after “top money” there is only one candidate – CCV.
My feeling is Walsh, Starfelt and Jenz are the ones Ange is less happy with. Stephen out on loan? Jenz is a loanee he doesn’ t get his permanent move, Starfelt we sell and take a modest profit.
That is the reality – we seen how the team faired without CCV selling him would be madness.
We don’t need to sell for top money, they’ll be a time and place for players to move on and when our “stars” go we get the big bucks, when our squad players go we get less.
The policy of selling “high value” players was flawed, let’s not repeat that mistake.
Hail Hail
CELTIC40ME on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 3:09 PM
I agree we can be easily misled by our domestic dominance . A clear example would be the conversion rate by our strikers in CL games .
As much as I love Kyogo and Giaka , their limitations argualy cost us European involvement post-Christmas .
Should have sold Edouard and bought Toney
As much as I love Kyogo and Giaka , their limitations arguably cost us European involvement post-Christmas .
——————
Perm any 3 from 12 regular participants who all missed gilt end chances.
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 3:09 PM
CELTIC40ME @ 2:53 PM,
So becoming a pot three team is a pipedream but we should be aiming higher than where we were under BR!?
We seem to be at cross purposes!!
The opposite. Following your strategy and expecting to make it to the level of a pot 3 team is a pipe dream.
Ange’s words, not mine, are that the clubs of our level who are successful have a very active player trading model. To match them we need to improve, not abandon it.
We don’t make enough money from the champions league alone to make the significant improvements needed to our squad.
We don’t have to sell CCV in January for the model to work, but if a really big offer comes in, with next years champions league in mind it should definitely be considered
There are risks involved, but I’d prefer to take them than face the prospect of seasons of being poor in the cl
GLENDALYSTONSILS on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 3:25 PM
Agreed. Finishing is the big difference and no amount of coaching or fancy tactical shenanigans can make up for it
CELTIC40ME @ 3:39 PM,
Yes there are risks involved and Paul67 understands that…
The work should be underway already, we have two transfer windows and the rare luxury of a commanding lead in the league.
As we have a commanding lead we can afford to take the risks,
I say no, we can’t afford to take the risks, at this point in time we must improve, we have only two or three players that would go for “top money” now.
Even then, we are talking Ajer money rather than KT money.
If Juranavic or CCV have a great world cup we may see their value soar.
Maybe then there is value in selling them, but we will be weaker not stronger.
It’s a myth that the team benefits and we know this from experience.
Has Wanyama ever been replaced!?
Hail Hail
DALRIADABHOY
Aye seen it , like most of the water companies a disgrace ..
We also need proper youth development. No Celtic players in the last Scotland Under-21 squad,but two former Celtic players. We traded Doak for peanuts. We should have kept him.
I hope Ange also turns his attentionn to the youth set-up.
BTW CELTIC40ME,
I’ve no problem with a lot of activity in the transfer market and know we must improve on the players we have, that’s a matter of fact.
My point is selling our best players for “top money” isn’t going to achieve that – Ange buying smarter is going to change that.
Hail Hail
79CAPS @ 3:56 PM,
Totally agree, I think Ange is focussed on this, he got rid of a lot of good young players in the summer as he didn’t think they were good enough, he’s raising the bar there too.
Hail Hail
79caps
Celtic had no say in the matter Doaks decided to leave – his choice – same goes for the lads who went to Munich.