Yesterday @SwissRamble on Twitter dissected Celtic’s finances. His conclusions are as expected, “[Celtic] are in good shape financially… thanks to their sustainable approach, though this owes a lot to their player trading model. Champions League qualification is also important, so the expanded format should help future prospects.”
Player trading is worth exploring. We have had the Asset Management conversation on CQN since our early weeks (2004), “Manage your assets or fail to manage your assets”. Recently, when we wanted to transform our worst season in over a decade, we sold our top striker (Edouard) and our top defender (Ajer) and acquired Kyogo, Jota, Carter-Vickers and others. It’s hard to believe how controversial this was in the early days of CQN, now we have seen the evidence, everyone gets it.
There needs to be clear objectives, though, what are we managing assets for? There are two fundamental targets I think we can all agree on:
Win the league.
Qualify for the Champions League group stage.
The latter will sometimes be fulfilled by the former. After a few years in the Champions League wilderness you might have convinced yourself that this is enough. I read plenty of glowing comments from the “Just being there” brigade, reflecting in the glory of attacking against a vastly superior opponent who scored eight against us over two games.
This is not for me and I believe that it is not sustainable either. Two, maybe three, seasons of cannon fodder in the Champions League and you’ll never hear from the “Just being there” types again. We need to compete, have genuine hopes of reaching the knock out stages and I believe this is achievable.
Having lived through a quadruple treble and now two nine-in-a-rows, I don’t want to settle for a perennial nip-and-tuck title race. I don’t just want to win the league this season, I want to win the league every season. Giovanni van Bronckhorst got perilously close to delivering a European trophy for Newco. If there is any stasis around Celtic Park right now, we will soon lose our dominant position.
But how, how do we make the great leap? You can vary a few metrics around the edges, but player trading is where it’s at. This is the only route open to us, we need to be better at it (despite the plaudits from Swiss Ramble) and we need to do much more of it. Always be ready to trade, be ready to sell and have thoroughly assessed replacements lined up. Don’t wait until our top talent has one or two years left on a contract, then stalls on a new deal with an eye over the border, which is where we have been recently.
The Edouard/Ajer strategy is better than allowing players to leave on a free, or holding them on increasingly high contracts until their talents wither (see 2000-05), but it underachieves. At best, it allows stagnation, but it more commonly sees us decline.
If we want to be part of the Champions League story, if we want to go on another long run of league titles, we need to learn lessons, and you and I have had some painful lessons in recent seasons. Edouard should have been sold in 2019, two years before he actually left. Sure, there would have been distress on the comments pages here, but we kept a player who eventually became ineffective – too busy working on his next gig. We need to dare to dream big!
As well as our (now) excellent recruitment setup, Celtic need the vision and strength to up their game. Look at Ajax and Benfica, they are also trapped in small leagues, but sell players for multiples of the £24m we got for Kieran Tierney. Do this and like these clubs, we can shop for more expensive talent ourselves.
If you can think of a brilliant alternative strategy, I’m all ears, but for now, we are faced with two alternate futures: repeat the glories and inevitable decline of the O’Neill, Strachan and Rodgers eras, or increase the velocity of player trading to a level that demonstrates the courage required to be a competitive Champions League outfit.
When we embark on our Champions League campaign in September, I want to have genuine hopes of reaching the knockout stage. That will not happen without a radical overhaul of the current squad, which means selling for top money and buying more quality players. “Learning lessons” from this season’s campaign will never bridge the gap, anyone who supported Celtic through the 90s will testify to this, so let’s not pretend otherwise.
The work should be underway already, we have two transfer windows and the rare luxury of a commanding lead in the league. Celtic, you have a talented manager who works hand-in-glove with his scouting system. Aligned both to a level of ambition that would give lesser mortals a nose bleed. No more settling for “Just being there”.
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Celtic had no choice in Doak leaving, like the bhoys who went to Germany, they left of their own accord,
Their decisions,
CHAIRBHOY
Victor Wanyama made 60 appearances as a DM over two season ten years ago
I think we’ve covered that since then.
CELTIC40ME @ 4:10 PM,
Ok, must have missed that.
So who would you sell and how much do you think we could make?
Hail Hail
It’s very short termist to think about replacing our best players in their positions without considering the effect the cash might have on the overall quality of the team
The aim is to improve the overall quality of the squad over time, not replace like for like when the team is already falling a long way short of what we want
We are being prepared for selling our best players, and with the more than hinted return of the dreadful Lawwell as chairman, its going back to the Celtic we despair of.
We are 30 million in the black and have our best players on very long contracts.
We will have a record turnover this season.
Here is a novel idea, how about spending the profits on 3-4 class players to aid the existing quality, while still remaining in the black.
Thats ambition, not the smoke and mirrors version that p67 peddled that only the most gullible would swallow.
LAMBERT14 @ 4:21 PM,
Agree, let’s hope it’s just wishful thinking on Paul67’s part.
We have a good team but not a great team, getting players in, bedding them in and improving the squad should be our priority.
Not selling our top players.
Hail Hail
Now that we have Brexit (not that I wanted it), would it not be easier for us to bring in young players from Latin America? I know the Portugese give passports readily to Brazilians but other EU countries seem to be able to bring them in too.
Ange Postecoglou for Aistralian Hall of fame
https://youtu.be/dl6J1jcSqKQ
HH
CELTIC40ME on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 1:00 PM
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 12:51 PM
“Selling our best players is not the way to do it.”
What is then?
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Look at the successful European clubs.
Most have their best players retained for many years with one or two quality players to augment them each season.
P67s suggestion to these clubs would see them looking to get P67 sectioned.
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 4:13 PM
I don’t think anyone isn’t up for sale at the right price, maybe keep CCV unless it’s a silly offer.
I’d go all out for a better striker, we’re just fannying about in the champions league otherwise
R.I.P Jimmy O’Rourke.
A very fine player who I saw quite often against Celtic. This laddie could play Fitba.
A great Club servant to Hibernian FC.
YNWA Jimmy.
Ange:
“If you look at all the clubs our size who have done well at Champions League level, as in making an impact not necessarily winning the competition, all of them are always in the Champions League and have an aggressive trading model. That is how you make up ground. For us to be that sort of football club we have to be the same.”
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 3:52 PM
CELTIC40ME @ 3:39 PM,
Has Wanyama ever been replaced!?
———————
I think there is a bit a myth on this site about Wanyama. Decent player of course but is no worldy.
He has played about 25 games P.A. over14 years.
He came into our side in a piecemeal fashion in defence of midfield based on injuries. We messed about with Kayal, Ledley, Wanyama that year in the centre mid until Wanyama grabbed the shirt in 2012/13.
A good player and gave us a new dimension but we did not dominate teams then like we do now.
A midfielder should be able to run, tackle, cross , shoot (to varying levels)
I don’t like the ‘holding’ mid idea that means that you can avoid some aspects, e.g., Lambert was a very skilful player in that role , Lennon wasn’t
Victor was good but IMHO, Ledley was better
CELTIC40ME @ 4:35 PM,
Agree, spending serious, but smart money on a striker would be great. I like our strikers but we haven’t enough of them and we need more quality in Europe.
We shouldn’t sell any of our top performers this season – we need to keep hold of them and improve the squad.
Hail Hail
Which letter appeared in the name of each of Celtic’s opponens in UEFA cup of 2003?
CELTIC40ME on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 1:03 PM
The move to a more aggressive player trading model seems to be coming from Ange.
————————–
Ange isn’t infallible.
Being caught on the break twice versus Shaktar while leading probably denied us Europe after Xmas, a sign of naivety in Angeball.
….opponent’s…..
What if a player wants to go because an opportunity opens up that is too good for them personally, should we make them stay, like Eddie , and then wonder why the player is not happy ?
If a big Spanish club is willing to pay big money for Jota, do you think he would be happy just to stay here ?
or Kyogo to Liverpool
or Hatate to Newcastle
or Matt to Man United
or at a lesser club in the Bournemouth and Southampton segment wanting say Greg Taylor
I could see every single one of the squad leaving if offered twice the money darn sarf.
and the youngers still going to Germany
Ange isn’t infallible.
Being caught on the break twice versus Shaktar
———-
be fair to Ange, he is over 50 now, no way he was catching that fella
BHOYJOEBELFAST on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 4:42 PM
Which letter appeared in the name of each of Celtic’s opponens in UEFA cup of 2003?
V for em ………. not Victory
Stivs:
Yes…I should have said in the run up to the final….but,but but!
LAMBERT14 on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 4:43 PM
Nobody is infallible. But he knows a working business model for a club our size when he sees one.
CONEYBHOY @ 4:39 PM,
Yes, Lambert was a great player.
Thought Victor was a great player for us, we needed that physicality there at that time.
Different game now but quality like Lambert’s fits into any era.
Hail Hail
We ran out of V opponents when we played Porto and guess what happened next ?
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 4:41 PM
If we want to be able to afford a champions league striker now is the perfect time to sell someone.
CCV apart we’ve got enough in every department to win the league easily.
January is a sellers market, sell at the right time and we’d have more money for a better player in the Summer. Nobody sells a decent striker in January.
SAINT STIVS @ 4:46 PM,
Yes, I think that’s understood, if players perform well for Celtic they will get noticed and get their big move, that’s fine.
Not this season though, unless a silly offer comes in I’d say we keep our top players and enhance certain areas like centre forward, I understand we will be trimming the squad and players will go.
Hopefully we will get more quality in that should be our priority this season.
Hail Hail
That working business model, Ange got to spend more than anyone has done in 10 years, they spent more than they brought in.
So given who he bought, I assume he is telling us I want to cash in some of them, i know wha i want to buy.
have a swiss ramble it is all in there.tract high fees.
————————–
Swiss Ramble
@SwissRamble
·
14 Nov
#CelticFC spent £38m on player purchases in 2021/22 after Postecoglou’s arrival, easily a club record, including Jota, Carter-Vickers, Furuhashi, Starfelt, Bernabei, Abada, Juranovic, Giakoumakis, O’Riley, Hatate and Hart. The gross outlay in the last 5 years was £95m.
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
I would suggest every player we brought in, apart from Idegguci is worth more now, and would at
As my Auld Da used to say, The Pope’s infallible.
Having scored 50 goals in 15 league games I am hopeful that GG and Kyogo will score even more after the world cup, a good rest for them will pay dividens.
CELTIC40ME @ 5:01 PM,
So who would you sell and how much do you think we would get?
Became I can’t see any value in a deal at the moment, we have two players for every position and we need to let the weaker player go and bring in a better place than first choice in a few positions.
If we are smart and so far Ange has proven he is, that’s not going to ruin our cash flow and should add value.
Hail Hail
Seville 2003 UEFA cup:
Who was the Spaniard who netted for Celtic?
IMHO, in order to progress in Europe.we need to get something done about the incompetent and unfit for purpose refs.
Trying to generous, i actually think that they are bigoted cheats way beyond unconscious bias and how long before some thug commits a career ending tackle on one of our players?
If this “tackle” had been committed by a Celtic Player it would have been a red card we all know it.
https://twitter.com/Angeba11/status/1590457782221697025?t=gPhRzBWQIPOeZd9VfUtgyg&s=19
david ferdiand the bhoy from livingston
If guys want to go,so be it,try and keep the core of the squad, by giving them better contracts
Yes,Stivs.
SCULLYBHOY how are you?