Yesterday @SwissRamble on Twitter dissected Celtic’s finances. His conclusions are as expected, “[Celtic] are in good shape financially… thanks to their sustainable approach, though this owes a lot to their player trading model. Champions League qualification is also important, so the expanded format should help future prospects.”
Player trading is worth exploring. We have had the Asset Management conversation on CQN since our early weeks (2004), “Manage your assets or fail to manage your assets”. Recently, when we wanted to transform our worst season in over a decade, we sold our top striker (Edouard) and our top defender (Ajer) and acquired Kyogo, Jota, Carter-Vickers and others. It’s hard to believe how controversial this was in the early days of CQN, now we have seen the evidence, everyone gets it.
There needs to be clear objectives, though, what are we managing assets for? There are two fundamental targets I think we can all agree on:
Win the league.
Qualify for the Champions League group stage.
The latter will sometimes be fulfilled by the former. After a few years in the Champions League wilderness you might have convinced yourself that this is enough. I read plenty of glowing comments from the “Just being there” brigade, reflecting in the glory of attacking against a vastly superior opponent who scored eight against us over two games.
This is not for me and I believe that it is not sustainable either. Two, maybe three, seasons of cannon fodder in the Champions League and you’ll never hear from the “Just being there” types again. We need to compete, have genuine hopes of reaching the knock out stages and I believe this is achievable.
Having lived through a quadruple treble and now two nine-in-a-rows, I don’t want to settle for a perennial nip-and-tuck title race. I don’t just want to win the league this season, I want to win the league every season. Giovanni van Bronckhorst got perilously close to delivering a European trophy for Newco. If there is any stasis around Celtic Park right now, we will soon lose our dominant position.
But how, how do we make the great leap? You can vary a few metrics around the edges, but player trading is where it’s at. This is the only route open to us, we need to be better at it (despite the plaudits from Swiss Ramble) and we need to do much more of it. Always be ready to trade, be ready to sell and have thoroughly assessed replacements lined up. Don’t wait until our top talent has one or two years left on a contract, then stalls on a new deal with an eye over the border, which is where we have been recently.
The Edouard/Ajer strategy is better than allowing players to leave on a free, or holding them on increasingly high contracts until their talents wither (see 2000-05), but it underachieves. At best, it allows stagnation, but it more commonly sees us decline.
If we want to be part of the Champions League story, if we want to go on another long run of league titles, we need to learn lessons, and you and I have had some painful lessons in recent seasons. Edouard should have been sold in 2019, two years before he actually left. Sure, there would have been distress on the comments pages here, but we kept a player who eventually became ineffective – too busy working on his next gig. We need to dare to dream big!
As well as our (now) excellent recruitment setup, Celtic need the vision and strength to up their game. Look at Ajax and Benfica, they are also trapped in small leagues, but sell players for multiples of the £24m we got for Kieran Tierney. Do this and like these clubs, we can shop for more expensive talent ourselves.
If you can think of a brilliant alternative strategy, I’m all ears, but for now, we are faced with two alternate futures: repeat the glories and inevitable decline of the O’Neill, Strachan and Rodgers eras, or increase the velocity of player trading to a level that demonstrates the courage required to be a competitive Champions League outfit.
When we embark on our Champions League campaign in September, I want to have genuine hopes of reaching the knockout stage. That will not happen without a radical overhaul of the current squad, which means selling for top money and buying more quality players. “Learning lessons” from this season’s campaign will never bridge the gap, anyone who supported Celtic through the 90s will testify to this, so let’s not pretend otherwise.
The work should be underway already, we have two transfer windows and the rare luxury of a commanding lead in the league. Celtic, you have a talented manager who works hand-in-glove with his scouting system. Aligned both to a level of ambition that would give lesser mortals a nose bleed. No more settling for “Just being there”.
256 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- »
he scored cos he had a V in his name
daVid
saint stiVs
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 5:09 PM
Like I said before, anyone bar CCV at the right price, and even him if it was a silly offer. I don’t know how much we’d get, although I wouldn’t accept less than £25m for Greg Taylor
I would definitely sell one of our strikers, probably GG, although persuading him to leave might be difficult.
I think we’ve got enough to manage without one of our best players to the end of the season – they’ve all been injured at some point so far and except for CCV we’ve coped fine domestically. Its worth the gamble.
CELTIC40ME on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 4:38 PM
Ange thought Angeball without a holding midfielder would be successful in champions league….
On P67s header, at times I felt it was hard to believe he wrote it, as P67 is as conservative as they come in his outlook.
I’ve often thought he would celebrate financials more than a trophy.
A typical accountant and number cruncher.
So after the initial surprise of this new bold P67, my surprise turned to familiarity as the true nature arrived, sell, sell, sell.
Then we got the wee caveat at the end of going further in Europe because selling your best players does this..nurse!!!
based on this, an excellent table of sales value, I thik we are being prepared for a big sale, maybe just one player, but if an offer comes in for someone and it is immediate payment terms i think it will happen,
Jota to Man United for £30 million plus Ronanldo
——————–
Swiss Ramble
@SwissRamble
·
14 Nov
#CelticFC have made their largest ever player sales in the last five years, including Kieran Tierney to #AFC £24m and Moussa Dembelé to Olympique Lyonnais £20m. That said, very few big money sales have been made this season.
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1592029780547108865/photo/1
The MOD has been imho correct about our club needing to get the cheating stopped.
If you are say Jota’s or one of our other star players agent at what point do you think, I need to get this guy out of Scotland before some one breaks his leg?
We are operating in a league where we are demonstrably treated differently to the other clubs.
The current incarnation of the huns are also treated differently.
When i seen Brother Beaton in the pub with his fellow huns i laughed thought it was funny, thought it had been doctored.
IT HADN’T BEEN.
I have also chuckled in the past at a picture of the “Mad Hun” wearing a sash.
After seeing Brother Beaton down the pub with his fellow huns I now wonder whether the “Mad Hun” is an orangeman!
David Fernandez
CHAIRBHOY
Can you explain one thing. You regularly criticise the board for not backing the manager in the past
We now have a manager who has their backing for a plan that involves more aggressive player trading than we had before?
What’s the problem?
Last Wednesday morning I was at my doctor’s surgery for my 6-monthly PSA blood test for Prostate Cancer.
This afternoon I received a phone call advising me that my PSA count was less than 0.01 which equates to undetectable. So that’s another all-clear until my next test in May.
Happy days.
good stuff tom, thems the best of days.
CELTIC40ME @ 5:25 PM,
Apologies, I picked you up wrong…
The idea that all players are for sale at the right price is a given, that right price at the moment should be double market value though.
Not as Paul67 suggests hawking our best players.
It would be neighbourly to weaken the team to give Rangers a break and maybe even a win or two in the derbies – keep Gio in a job
But I’m for forgetting about Rangers and focusing on getting a Champions League team worth the name.
We’ve only got two windows to achieve that.
After that we have to improve again to be competitive in the new format, that’s another two windows.
Now Ange has rebuilt the squad in three windows so we know what he can achieve but my feeling is we need to improve this team and selling our best players isn’t going to do that.
Few of our players covered themselves in glory in the UCL, so talk of silly money for them is nonsense.
Of course we know they are better than they showed and scouts aren’t daft but they really need to see something at UCL or International level before we talk KT money.
Hail Hail
TOM MCLAUGHLIN @ 5:55 PM,
Good news… big relief
Hail Hail
Benfica have just topped their champions league group, they went out at the last 16 last season to Liverpool. They are a great example of a club like ours who do well in the champions league
They regularly sell their best players and made €100m cash profit on transfers over the last two seasons
They’ve won their league once in the last 5 years
How prepared would we be to not win the league and qualify for the cl through the knockouts if it meant that in the long term we did better in the CL?
If Ange is the most important man at our club right now we should look to tie him up on a long term contract, this 1 year rolling contract he is on at present means more or less that he can leave any time he feels like it, an improved bigger better longer contract would at least tell him he’s highly valued and we don’t want him walking away, normally in business if you are doing an outstanding job you get rewarded, he’s overdue one.
I work with 2 benfica supporters, we have regular football chats,
they thought it was shite they kept losing the league because they sold their best players.
RTB- Correct
CELTIC40ME @ 5:43 PM,
If Ange wants to sell a player I’m happy for him to do that – if Ange wants another 40 million pound splurge and the Board say we’ll meet you two thirds of the way there – again fine.
For the Board to continue to identify “high value” players and hawk them, no
We had huge reverses and disasters under this policy.
Also Ange looks for personality and the right fit when recruiting a player, he recruits people not footballers, it has paid dividends in spirit and camaraderie – the players for the most part seem to love playing at Celtic, it’s crucial that this continues.
Lots of factors that the aul buy buy buy sell sell sell brigade over looked.
The Board were simply too self centred and business minded, they are running a football Club not a business and of course those skillsets are necessary in any modern organisation but they struck the football side like Maslow’s Hammer.
Wish those who have moved on all the best naturally but never ever football ghuys
Hail the
£11m for Frimpong.
£15.7m for Ajer.
£16.3m for Edouard.
£15.7m for VVD.
£22m for Dembele.
etc.
Anyone else thinking the prices we have sold at, have been a bit scheidt ?
HH
CELTIC40ME on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 6:08 PM
Benfica have just topped their champions league group, they went out at the last 16 last season to Liverpool. They are a great example of a club like ours who do well in the champions league
They regularly sell their best players and made €100m cash profit on transfers over the last two seasons
They’ve won their league once in the last 5 years
How prepared would we be to not win the league and qualify for the cl through the knockouts if it meant that in the long term we did better in the CL?
—————————-
As you are aware, Benfica have won the league 5 times out of the last 9 seasons which is very good considering the top competition from Porto and Sporting.
The competition from other clubs in Portugal is a million miles away from clubs in Scotland
BIG WAVY @ 6:28 PM,
That’s the way I think about it, good players
Keeping the Edouard, Dembele parnership together fo another season and you have a 50 m+ front line
Hawking players around and getting a last minute deal on Moussa because Real wanted Mariano Díaz back at short notice.
No, we shouldn’t be doing business that way
Hail Hail
TOM MCLAUGHLIN on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 5:55 PM
Excellent news.
Brian
Semi final ticket info
https://twitter.com/CelticFC/status/1592562598796578817?s=20&t=DxPApO2d9Sh4eCF-ckMGkg
If Eddie and Moussa would have been a £50 dream team finishing line how come they only scored a total of 1 goal in the Champions league while at celtic, and indeed neither have made the France team for the world cup.
Could be argued both have regressed their careeers and are no longer attracting that next big move.
I was convinced moussa would be at the very top by ow, 5 seasons after leaving celtic.
we got good money for them all.
US intelligence claiming Russian missiles struck target of some kind in Poland.
TOM MCLAUGHLIN
Pleased to hear your good news.
🕉☮🕊✌🖖💚
Frimpong, looking back, exciting player, but often critiscised on here.
H e played 51 games in total for celtic, scoring only 3 goals, stolen from man city, we sold him for £11m only one month after his 19th birthday.
Tom
Great news on the health front
Ange may not be infallible but he is the nearest thing to it, imo. I have enough confidence in him to allow him to do as he thinks fit in the transfer market.
As I say, he may not be infallible but he has worked wonders in Paradise since his arrival. Long may he and his methods do the business here.
SAINT STIVS @ 6:56 PM,
Well this is my point, a pair of hunskelpers no doubts
Huge “potential” talents that needed careful man management – put agents and hawkers and all the nonsense into the equation.
My feeling they would have had a blinding shop window season at Celtic and we’d be well rid.
Remember someone telling me Gareth Ainsworth got rid of all the lads, no matter how talented, that were more interested in gaming than football
I said why would you play football if you had no interest? They said where else are the lads going to get that money?
It was a revelation for me, so many of us would have loved to be talented enough to play professional football, for these guys it was a job.
Hail Hail
At Wycombe Wanderers of course
Hail Hail
RockTreeBhoy/Bada
Although in some ways I see your point,especially in todays managerial and commercial world,and if it were any other club I would.Not what I feel in this relationship(us/Ange:Ange/us) however.
We could probably offer x years on £y and give Ange more security,it would of course come with a release(rogers)clause,which would be a permanent weakspot as soon as speculation becomes rife(chasing club saying clause has been met).That permanent weakspot highlighted everytime the merry-go-round
in the bestest league in the world gets its monthly go.
In todays contractual world(managerial bosmans etc)
I get the feeling from both side us/Ange it’s about the plan,where are we》》where we going? Becoming a better football club,and trusting in the plan as it evolves,like today’s header and Anges answer at Agm and that days superb presser.different,a lot is happening and plenty of work to do.its an important couple of years.
I suppose be it,oneyearolling or x year on y dosh,it will happen if money and contract security is what Ange is looking at alone.but I get the impression Ange don’t need a contract restructure to make him more secure,he is pretty focused and direct and secure in what he is building,working to his plan and ably backed by us.
:-)
HH
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 5:57 PM
You’re struggling with the idea that Ange doesnt want what you do. He couldnt have been more explicit that keeping his best players and only selling them for double market value is the opposite of how he sees things in the future.
You’re suggesting the board do exactly what you’ve accused them of doing in the past – not backing the manager.
Its about what you think should happen, not Ange
LAMBERT14 on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 6:34 PM
Benfica are the top club in a three horse race and they’ve won one league in 4. They finished third last season.
Pursuing this model means we risk periods when our team isn’t as strong as it might be so that over a longer period the squad is as good as it can be. But for us to be competitive in the champions league for any length of time its the only show in town.
CELTIC40ME @ 7:23 PM,
Yes, I’ve made it clear it’s absolutely what I think, also very happy if Ange disagrees, that he carries on regardless.
We know what the Board used to do and if there was any doubts the leaked transfer meeting “document” proved it.
They identified “high value players” these were not necessarily our most important players, like Scott Brown or Craig Gordon, these were the players we could get most money from. We would then try to sell these players to anyone interested.
It was bonkers, it stopped during Covid and we shouldn’t be doing it again.
Ange should manage the transfer window, yes lots of various input I’m sure but he has the final say.
Ange has said the business for January is already done and he hopes to find some time in the World Cup break to plan the summers activities.
Awesome – My kinda ghuy
Hail Hail
SAINT STIVS on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 7:01 PM
And for Frimpong we will be getting, £8700.00 per day when he is at the world cup along with i think Ajer as they were playing for us less than 2 years ago.
Wonder how Frimpong would have fared under Ange coaching?
The thing thats always done it for me with Ange is that he plans very intelligently and commits totally. He’s an excellent analyser, a great strategist and superb executor.
I thought it when he first came, I saw signs from early on, it was why I said when we were in sixth and said it regularly after that we’d win the league.
He seems to have an excellent understanding of all parts the game, he has very strong ideas about things and like I said, commits to them totally. To be given a chance for it to work he needs to be backed totally and given time.
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 7:37 PM
Its old now, its gone. Move on.
Do like you you say the old board should have done and back Ange
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2022 7:37 PM
Ange gave an interview recently where he outlined the process for targeting signings.
TomMcLaughlin 5.55
Goof news Tom 👍
HH