The most frustrating thing about last night’s meek exist from the Europa League is just how self-inflicted it was. After previous European defeats I criticised Brendan Rodgers tactics, but no tactics in the world will help a team which cannot defend a corner kick or stop a shot from 24 yards into the middle of the goal.
I saw the Hamilton Accies keeper recently concede a similar goal to the second Dorus de Vries failed to keep out of the net last night. At any level of the game, it was an unforgiveable error. For years Celtic were imperious at defending corner kicks. Now, also for years, it has been a persistent weakness.
Celtic have been far too weak at the back this season – not just in Europe. After the game Brendan suggested we lacked the experience necessary to play in such environments – certainly one of our issues. Hopefully the addition of Marvin Compper will bring sufficient authority to allow our youthful defenders to progress.
By contrast, Zenit were a study in the art of defence, even at home against a team from Scotland. We were unable to land a glove on them until the contest was effectively over. Substitutes Tom Rogic and Scott Sinclair both made things happen, but it is difficult to isolate their effect from Zenit’s own tiredness.
This was a European tie which got away. Sure, Zenit are better resourced than us, but on the showing over both legs, I’m not convinced they are significantly better than Anderlecht – who played us off Celtic Park but had their own troubles when we visited Belgium in September.
Lots of excuses, Celtic, but we really should have done better.
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Old Tim caught your message,keep it for the treble!!! See you soon H H Hebcelt
!!BADA BING!! on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 2:55 PM
Rogic to China?
If only we could link him with an £11m move to Beijing Rehne , they’ve got money to burn!!
I opened a bottle of Rioja last night at half five. The first glass was nectar, delicious. Then the game kicked off. The rest of the bottle was drunk for the purpose of anaesthesia.
Individually, players like KT and Ajer have improved. Boyata as well. Jozo…not convinced. Lustig is well past his best. The point I’m labouring to make is that there have been some individual improvements but as a defensive collective, we’re no better than under Ronny. The common factor along with the players is the defence coach.
Not saying that John Kennedy should get the bullet but is it time for a fresh approach to coaching our defence, or at least a fresh set of eyes in the defence coaching setup? What does Kolo Toure contribute? At the moment, defensively, we’re (only just) treading water.
But what do I know? I just buy my season ticket, go along to Celtic Park and lovebomb my team. But I’d like to see a better defence.
As others have said, the next 3 league games will go a long way to determining how this season will pan out. If we take 9 points then we enter spring full of renewed confidence. However, anything less than 7 will do nothing to steady the nerves in the run in and will continue to cast doubt over the abilities of the players and management team as well as the ambitions of the PLC.
Football is a strange game and it wouldn’t surprise me if some big decisions (shocks?) are in the offing at Celtic. Whatever is happening , there is certainly something going on behind the scenes this season that is having an effect on everything. I’ve seen this movie before…sadly.
Celtic40me,
We actually started the game reasonably well and looked confident.
However, when the first goal went in, they gained in confidence and we lost any momentum we had.
The second goal finished us off, though it shouldn’t have.
We only needed one goal at that stage.
That both goals were lost to defensive and goal keeping errors, rather than clever play, only makes it worse.
I thought that Rogic was the wrong choice of sub at half time. I would have prefered the skill and directness of Musonda, to unsettle an underworked Zenit defence.
Scott Brown’s driving game has gone and he now dwells too long on the ball.
He would be of greater benefit to the tem in a more defensive ,covering role, where his ability to see danger would be an asset.
We need a line- breaking Armstrong/ Christie attacking midfielder, to drive us forward.
We have them, when fit and back from loan, but will we use them.
I want Scott Brown to play out his days at the top and not as a shadow of the player he was.
Keep Olivier in central midfield.
@ CLOGHER CELT on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 2:14 PM
Thes combination of a Plc that see making a 500k profit on Player Trading in their Interim Results as a highlight (that figure makes me question the quoted price for Ntcham, if we can get Benyu aw well from the proceeds of the sales of Janko and GMS and still make 500k).
Can anyone explain the above? This is particularly important. We claimed to pay in the region of £4m for Ntcham. How did we manage to make a profit then? Can anyone explain this?
!!BADA BING!! on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 2:55 PM
Rogic to China?
=============
Bound to be decent money if true.
Since Rogic came in as a ‘project’ of sorts, I propose that we use the China money to fund another project…
The CQN Scouting Challenge.
In 3+ weeks of painstaking research, the CQN Scouting department have so far identified… erm no one…that Celtic should have purchased, in January, in the £3m-£5m bracket.
But that hasn’t stopped the complaints about raising our average spend to somewhere in this region.
Its a plan that has some merit, but feasability and how it may work in practice, well theres a lot of variables, and those shouting the loudest are high on trumpetness and low on detail (such as names, convincing a guy whos been offered 50k elsewhere to come to us for 35k-40k..small things).
So lets go for it! Its 2018, lots of resources at your disposal.
Even one name would be an improvement. And then we can use apathy, sorry action, to stand outside the front door and demand the money be spent on our players. At least that way we’ll know who to blame.
And some might get a dose of reality at the same time.
HH
@ FIELDOFDRAMS on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:03 PM
“The point I’m labouring to make is that there have been some individual improvements but as a defensive collective, we’re no better than under Ronny. The common factor along with the players is the defence coach.”
I think the determining factor is the quality of the players. Deila’s team was the worst Celtic team in the post O’Neill era and yet we have no spent any money (aside from squad players) on the defence. I would argue that it is a testament to the quality of coaching (Rodgers et al) that we have achieved what we have with that defence.
all celtic seem to be interested in is making a profit, we are a plc thats what it does thats why we have dermott and while there we wont change in our ways cl qualifying xmillions thats the prob regardless of humpings
The Sevconians are thinking….. ‘ it’s game on ‘
Allegedly CSC
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:09 PM
We don’t pay the full agreed transfer fee in one lump sum. It usually spread over a period of time. The quoted fee will also include add ins which are only paid if agreed criteria are met.
!!BADA BING!! on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 2:55 PM
Rogic to China?
Right, who’s doing the Airport runs?
Now if it was Simunovic…
CLOGHER CELT on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 2:14 PM
Thes combination of a Plc that see making a 500k profit on Player Trading in their Interim Results as a highlight (that figure makes me question the quoted price for Ntcham, if we can get Benyu aw well from the proceeds of the sales of Janko and GMS and still make 500k).
==========================
Afternoon CC, hoop your well!?
We did not make a profit on player trading in the period of £500k. What we did do, was receive £500k additional proceeds for the sale of players based on their valuation in the accounts at the time.
When a player is acquired his transfer fee plus signing on fee is capitalised on the balance sheet and then written off over the period of his contract. So say we buy a player for £6m ( I know, I know, we can dream) on a 4 year contract and his signing on fee is £2m, then £8m is shown as an asset on the books. At the end of year 1, his value is written down to £6m, Year 2 £4m, Year 3 £2m and Year 4, £0. Each year we will a show an amortisation charge in the accounts of £2m against any profit made that year.
Imagine in the above example, we sell this player at the end of year 2 for £4.5m. As his valuation is £4.0m at this time, then we have a profit on trading the players registration.
This is what has happened at this interim period, obviously with different numbers applied.
Hope this makes sense
HH
CRC
Trad88
non-confrontational queries below:
Who would be the judge, if someone were to venture a name?
Id also be interested in your view as to how we improve, considering the amount of 3-0 results we seem to accumulate in european away games, and not necessarily with dearer players purchased. This problem occurs across a few managers of varying abilities.
BR got us by the first hurdle twice (CL Qualification), the next hurdle is obviously more difficult
Someone said earlier that we cant win every game……this is true…..but the manner in which we lost last night is what everyone and their granny is moaning about….not the fact we lost……we…..in a nutshell….were shite.
TRADITIONALIST88 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:12 PM
Patrick Twumasi of Astana, probable fee £3-5m. Lightening fast forward, can play wide or through the middle, scored twice against us and has scored 10 from 14 in European games this season. Scored again last night against Sporting Lisbon.
Gary67 on 23rd February 2018 3:25 pm
TRADITIONALIST88 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:12 PM
Patrick Twumasi of Astana, probable fee £3-5m. Lightening fast forward, can play wide or through the middle, scored twice against us and has scored 10 from 14 in European games this season. Scored again last night against Sporting Lisbon
Would be a great acquisition for a team that had a midfield who could pass the ball forward to him….
the fact is and it hurts to say we are nowhere near good enough to play in europe the players are just not good enough but its what we make do with and we either accept it or dont
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:12 PM
There have been too many embarrassments in europe under brendan for there to be any credit in his coaching of the defence.
we don’t have to look too far back to see what can be achieved with a back for of telfer, o’dea, mcmanus and naylor. 180 minutes against a milan including seedorf, pirlo, kaka and inzaghi. I don’t think any of them would get in this celtic team
Afternoon 31003, hope you’re well, ra-ta-ta-ta?
Whilst I agree with you and equally disappointed with last night, I am equally disappointed with the manner in which a lot of fans have over reacted
You have someone on etims wanting Brendan sacked
You also have 1 Celt on twitter saying
“@Tam_Selleck
Rodgers’ European tactics have been suspect, we can’t play open football at this level as we don’t have that level of quality on the park. It’s beyond naive now and bordering ignorant. Neil Lennon could have set a team up last night to qualify.
10:50 AM – 23 Feb 2018”
Of course, I mentioned to him “Braga 3 Celtic 0; Utrecht 4 Celtic 0; Sion 3 Celtic 1” and just waiting for his reply :-)
Just a couple examples of many moans :-)
HH
CRC
GO TELL THE SPARTIM on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:24 PM
Good questions. I say we try a novel approach, in keeping with the idea, of judging/making a final call. So, what about a Transfer Committee. Don’t see any problem with that!
I’m with you on the second point, not easy, maybe lucky with injuries last season, very unlucky this. But the CQN Scouting department, any day now, are going to tap into the unlimited supply of players who are desperate to sign for Celtic and are better than we already have, and come with a value of no more than £5m.
How hard can it be! We’ll be CEO’s in the morning and scouts in the afternoon, cut out the middleman leaving more money to bring the average spend to £4m-£6m!
HH
@ TRADITIONALIST88 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:12 PM
You do realise that the purchase of a player is an example of the implementation of a strategy as opposed to the strategy itself? So the calls for certain people to identify players to sign is in fact demanding they detail the implementation of a strategy as opposed to a strategy.
Celticrollercoaster supporting @WalkWithShay on 23rd February 2018 3:33 pm
I agree…..a lot of over reaction……but…..its time Brendan stood up to be counted with regard to the calibre of player he wants to bring in……
Kristoffer Ajer……ra ta ta ta ta…..
31003
Yes, Agreed
HH
CRC
GARY67 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:25 PM
Well it took a while, but we’ve got one!
We were linked with Twumasi last year I believe(It appears his value has at least doubled since then).
With Griffiths and Dembele already on the books, do we go two up at all times if we sign him, or do we sell Dembele? Do we have a buyer for Dembele? Does Twumasi even want to come?
Good shout though.
HH
OLDTIM67 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 12:21 PM
To all the Moaning Minnie’s out there, accept we got beat, we are not invincible, we will lose games sometime.
The problem is that where Europe is concerned, we lose games most of the time.
There is no point to sitting on piles of CL moneyand trying to team build while iindulging in loan deals.
@ CELTICROLLERCOASTER SUPPORTING @WALKWITHSHAY on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:20 PM
Thank you for your helpful comment. However, my one query is whether new purchases are netted off against the proceeds for the sale of players based on their valuation in the accounts at the time?
“Profit in Trading of Intangible Assets” suggests that the purchase of assets should be netted off against the disposal of assets?
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:34 PM
Absolutely, but if you been reading my posts, I am only asking for those calling for a higher spend to factor in that this MIGHT actually be the strategy, but that there are other factors getting in the way they refuse to think about. The implementation of such a strategy requires buy in from employees of other clubs.
So if those calling for a new strategy won’t play by the rules, why should I!
So..name some players!
We got a good one a few minutes ago. Its only taken 3+ weeks, but its a start.
Lots of questions about the feasability of a deal of course. But that wont matter to some…
HH
Ooh just had a look on E-Tims to see what all the fuss was about. Its like FF on a bad day. Sweary words a plenty. During lent too, imagine that.
@ CELTIC40ME on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:31 PM
Agree wholeheartedly that Rodgers tactics have been suspect in Europe (far too open, not doubling up on marking, players isolated etc), but I still think he has improved players through his coaching- Boyata for instance is in a much better position now than he was under Deila.
I also think that in most of the European games where we were thumped 5-0 or 7-0 that it was not individual errors of defence, rather the set- up of team and the fact they were completely exposed that led to the results. However, last night it was purely lack of quality and individual errors in defence that led to the goals. There was little Brendan could do to mitigate against the error of the DDV, Lustig and (to a lesser extent) Simunovic.
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:41 PM
No there is no nett off of purchases against disposals.
The correct term used in the accounts is
“Profit from transfer of player registrations (shown as profit on disposal of intangible assets)”
I will provide an overview tomorrow morning based on the interim accounts when I have a bit more time. as I am just getting ready to go to The Night of Celtic Legends ( Lubo, Stan, Pierre and Hartson)
HH
CRC
G67- does Astana not have oil money, it’s a good shout but how much is he on there?
!!BADA BING!!
He signed for Astana although there was much interest from other European teams, could be right that they’re paying a lot..
“Twumasi signed permanently for FC Astana prior to the 2015 season, despite attracting attention from other European clubs”
Wikistuff CSC
!!BADA BING!! on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:55 PM
No idea but the sales pitch would be come to us for a couple of seasons, play CL and win medals, then get a move to the land of milk and honey.
@TRADITIONALIST88 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:44 PM
The problem is that there are a lot of unknowns in this situation. So in order to have a sensible and productive discussion you have to remove the unknowns and then, on the face of it, conduct the discussion within those parameters.
For example, we can only speculate as to players’ demands and opinions (re monetary demands/opinion on Scottish football), so realistically we have to take that out of the debate, as it is conjecture and speculation.
One (and the main one) objective factor which is backed by hard evidence (accounts) and is not up for debate is the amount of money Celtic have spent this season and in the preceding seasons and the amount of money we have in the bank. In regard to these figures we should have discussion, as they are material and can be substantiated.
To that end, I can review the situation and say: we have £30m in the bank, we have very little debt and relative to what we earn, we are utilising a small amount of our resources on player purchases. My conclusion is that we increase our expenditure on player transfer which, all things being equal, improves the quality of the team. In short, my strategy is to increase the funds made available to Rodgers, as the evidence provides that we have them available and are not utilising them.
GARY67 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:58 PM
!!BADA BING!! on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:55 PM
No idea but the sales pitch would be come to us for a couple of seasons, play CL and win medals, then get a move to the land of milk and honey.
=====================
But hes already doing it in Europe and raising many eyebrows, so we may have missed the boat. Hence why we try to get them earlier for £1m-£2m…
HH
@CELTICROLLERCOASTER SUPPORTING @WALKWITHSHAY on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 3:50 PM
Thanks for your comment!
TRADITIONALIST88 on 23RD FEBRUARY 2018 4:01 PM
Not in CL. That’s where they all want to play.
Yes, we may have missed the boat. You asked for a player and I gave you one, do you want me to carry out the contract negotiations as well ;-)