This time last year the league was in the bag, as it is today, but we had Champions League football to look forward to in the coming days, and would ultimately go on to win the Scottish Cup. The Champions League is always going to be a hard place to measure progress for a club seeded in pot 4, last season it was hard enough to Benfica, a pot 2 team who were eliminated by Celtic but still progressed to the Europa League final.
Domestic cup performances for Celtic is a more accessible measuring tool. After home defeats to Morton (good grief) and now Aberdeen we may well ask, what went wrong?
It was evident from early in the second half that whatever match plan we had was not effective, and despite the introduction of fresh faces, the performance didn’t improve. Aberdeen defended outside their box very effectively, making it difficult for Celtic to play the kind of passes which Samaras released Stokes with to score early in the game. Forrest found red shirts blocking his path whenever he got going. Commons had a day when nothing sparked. Possession was cheaply conceded throughout as Celtic continued to ask the same question of the Aberdeen defence.
While we are playing in in impoverished Scottish football Aberdeen represent the strongest possible opponents. They are second in the league and were the last team to score against us on merit. Yesterday wasn’t a fluke result, it was deserved and marked the progress of Derek McInnes’ team.
So where does this leave us? Celtic remain imperious in the Premiership, the fact that they’ve not tasted defeat against a weaker team there, or conceded in 11 games, is historically impressive, but against the best of the rest, there are question marks, as there will be for Champions League qualifiers.
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Jungle Jim and Dexter
Good posts.
Ryecatcher
Now I do have some sympathies with the team from Liverpool you follow but this mocking of Manchester United just isn’t cricket
PinnochioCSC
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
PS No wish to objectify women – like BSR my admiration for Christina Hemdricks is sincere and in no way the wistful longing of a middle aged man – but I have to admit that Jessica Ennis is rather attractive gel.
Doh Paul! While i’m in the process of writing an epic length post you put up a new blog. Anyway, here goes. Tin hat firmly in place.
theoriginalsadiesbhoy
17:06 on 9 February, 2014
Attended yesterday’s game. Bitterly cold. Before I continue I would like to congratulate Aberdeen on a great performance and a great result. I hope they meet Dundee United in the final and that it is a great spectacle. I don’t care which one of them wins but I would like to think it would be one or the other. They both play good football.
I was as disappointed in the performance and result as everybody else on here. The players seemed to lack motivation and I wondered about their preparation. I felt that last week’s incident at Tynecastle seemed to dominate the buil up to yesterday’s game. It was still being talked about on Friday and featured in all the chip wrappers yesterday before the game. I know it must be very difficult for Neil but it can’t be allowed to distract from Celtic’s next game.
The talking point for those around me, and I had to agree, was team selection. Most people seemed to think that Sammi and Stokes should not have started. I was also surprised at the inclusion of Adam Matthews in such a big game after injury when young Darnell Fisher had been doing so well. Stokesie scored a great goal but as the game developed it was obvious on two occasions when he was given good through balls that he didn’t have the pace to trouble the Dons defence. Our players looked lethargic and a bit bemused at times and uncertain about what to do.
Meanwhile Barry Robson was talking the Aberdeen midfield through the game and positioning them at dead balls etc. he won the duel with Stefan Johansen hands down. No criticism of Johansen intended due to contrast in experience of both players and Stefan’s recent arrival in the SPFL.
I see many are starting to question Neil’s position as manager. His record in domestic cups is appalling to be honest and he is likely to come under the same scrutiny that we reserve for Sleekit McCoist in cup competitions. I am unsure but we have to take into account the events of the season so far. The last time I spouted forth about our manager – Gordon Strachan’s final season and the turgid football – we got Tony Mowbray. I thought we might see some of the attractive football that his Hibs team had played. We all know how that went. So I’m not a very good judge perhaps but I’ll say what I have to say regardless.
I moaned on here during the close season about our pre season preparation in Germany whicH was a total shambles. We were embarrassed by Union Berlin and Greuther Furth. In the latter game it is no exaggeration to say that we could have lost 12- 2 instead of 6-2. I watched the games on telly while on holiday in Cyprus. The rumanian barman was shocked at how bad Celtic looked. He said that teams like Greuther and Union should not be doing what they were to Celtic. There was no shape, no plan for the games. Players seemed to be thrown on in an ad hoc way and we were totally overrun. They did not play any football as such and the games provided no preparation for the CL qualifiers in terms of team formations, playing strategies etc. the players just ran around and desperately chased their opponents. It couldn’t have done anything to build their confidence.mI went to the friendly with Munchengladbach at home and couldn’t help but note the difference in their preparations to ours. They fielded their strongest team for an hour and then began to make substitutions in the last half hour or so to experiment and blood players.
Next we had to play 6 CL qualifying matches which we had known we were going to have to face for the previous six months. It was a shambles. We didn’t have new signings bedded in and the pre season hadn’t been used by Neil to give him idea of team formation. We struggled badly. To be honest I thought Elfsborg should have knocked us out in Sweden. We rode our luck in that game. Then we had the Karagandy tie where we again rode our luck big time. Do you remember the long throw which hit a player and smacked our crossbar?
My point is that Celtic prepared very poorly for the most important games in our season where £15 million was at stake. We dithered over selling Hooper when he should have been played in some or all of those games. He was a player who would only bring us £5 million. What he played and got injured? I hear some of you say. We nearly got knocked out and risked £5million for £15million. We were lucky to qualify and I don’t think any honest person on here will disagree with that.
So back to Neil. We have very little to look forward to for the rest of the season in terms of excitement other than league winning day. The games without a defeat is gone as is the clean sheet record. For me, this is the time when Neil will show us whether he is a manager or not. Will he play Samaras again. A player who has not signed a contract. If he does in my opinion it will prove that he hasn’t got it. We should be concentrating all of our efforts on the CL qualifiers. Neil needs to know what his best team is and how he will approach these games in terms of formations. He also needs to scout out any players he wants to add and get them in as early as possible. This will be difficult with World Cup and possible signings being tied up with their countries throughout the summer. He therefore needs to work with the players he has available, be aware of who might not be available for the CL games (Izzy, Efe, Virgil?) and ensure that they are ready for these games. His pre-season needs to be given a lot more though than he did for the last one and the team need to be ready and motivated for the qualifiers.
Personally, I hope he uses his time well and that we qualify for the CL group stages. It will be harder than this season was (World Cup and Murrayfield factors). As a club we have a lot at stake. We need the CL money and if Neil shows no signs that he has learned lessons from last season then I would replace him early and get someone in who knows how to prepare a team properly.
Dexter…
Brilliant post again sir….
Impressed……
Chapeau.
What would all prefer next season a treble and no CL
group qualification,or a title and CL qualification?
JJ
Double negative …no longer don’t …positive ….
There’ll be more folk at the game then :-()
Sadie,
you are a wee bit selective about that Karagandy tie as Kris Commons also hit the bar in the away game. Moreover, who cares about friendlies? Anyway, still interesting to read.
Latchford,
could you tell us who should replace Neil Lennon?
Valentinesday
Will depend largely on whether we get uh led around the CL like we did this season …little pleasure in that
From Opta Celtic
Neil Lennon’s Scottish League record as manager – 146 games, 112 wins, 18 draws, 16 losses.
Neil Lennon has a domestic cup win percentage of 71% compared to a Scottish League win percentage of 77% as Celtic manager.
Every-time Kris Commons has scored this season Celtic have won, 15 separate matches. (12 Scottish League, 2 CL qualifiers and 1 cup game)
I wonder if the Dalglish/Barnes “dream team” would have survived a season where we lost 5/6 CL games, lost at home to Morton in the LC and then lost so timidly to Aberdeen at home after taking an early lead.
Totally agree that NL had a disastrous day at the office and that throwing in Samaras and Matthews was an unnecessary gamble that backfired big time.
For me though, the worst decision was not to hook Scott Brown at HT. After receiving an early yellow card he had effectively rendered himself useless. He was as productive as a neutered cat in that second half and this contributed massively to Aberdeen dominating the midfield.
As usual NL took far too long to react. 2 out of 3 of Sammi, Brown and Matthews should have been hooked at HT. If he’d done that we might be looking forward to a quarter final.
Still mightily scunnered 24 hours on!
TOSB
No CL football …sell our better players….with no reinvestment …it’s what we do
Billybhoy, the answer to your question about Barnes/Dalglish is that they wouldn’t have qualified for the CL. The pain of being pumped by Lyon still resounds in my heart thanks to Barnes and friends. There is also guilt as I helped to buy tickets for some Donegal tourists who decided to travel from Edinburgh to Glasgow to see the Celts. Oops.
Just in and my son told me the draw. I was half correct yesterday. Wrong Rovers as I forecast Sevco v Raith, obviously that was just too tough for them, the corruption just goes on and on. A step nearer the final for sleekit Ally. Still sickening.
jungle jim
17:00 on 9 February, 2014
CORRECT…!!!!!!!!
Paul
To me football football is a simple game
Win the middle of the park and most times you win the game
Yesterday after the first 10-15 minutes we were second best in the middle of the park
Lenny should have been able to see what was obvious to everyone in the ground and should have done something about it at HT – namely brought on Biton to help us get a grip of the game again
Instead he waited until we were a goal down and then went down the routine of just sending on more forwards into an already congested final third
As a result Aberdeen with a it more poise and better option choices could have scored a third and certainly looked far more likely to score than we did
Yesterday was the biggest game we have left this season and the performance from manager and team was dire
The fact that this is not a one off as regards our recent cup form makes it worse
In many ways we looked as if we have not moved on much since the day we lost to Ross County in a semi final
This time last year according to the manager Leigh Griffiths wouldn’t get in to his team – now he was to our saviour !
Something has gone wrong somewhere if LG is now the answer – he is more suited to a counter-attacking team and apart from the CL we never play that way!
If there was an obvious successor I would be in favour of Lenny going but in the absence of such a figure then perhaps we are better with the devil we know
Owen Coyle had his chance as far as I’m concerned and shouldn’t be even considered
Though I thought that about Stokes too !
The club need to have a real hard look at where we are and where we want to go in the next couple of years
If we are to stay in Scotland then we have to make sure that we are set up properly to deal with the Zombie Huns if and when they arrive in the top league
One of the sad conclusions about yesterday for me was the realisation that even with Fat Sallery in charge the Zombies could beat us in one off game
We are indeed a soft touch!
HH
Who cares about the Morton result? The league cup is a waste of time and energy. Didn’t NL play some young players that night? We lost. People scolded Neil and the club for the result. Play the young guys and lose and you are in big trouble.
Moyes doesn’t look very well at all these days.
That’s what happens to managers who brown nosed Adolf Ferguson,all of their careers, and get to succeed him only because of this.
Will take this mob years to recover from Gormless Moyes.
Just like Ronald McDonald…..I’m Lovin’ It.
After 71 minutes Man Utd have put in 59 crosses, compared to Fulham’s one!
Still 1-0
TheOriginalSadiesBhoy @17 16
” The Romanian barman was shocked at how bad Celtic looked ”
I watched the friendly v Cluj in a Romanian social club in south east Sicily . Supporters of teams like Steaua, Dinamo and Timosoara got much entertainment from the technical limitations of the Celtic players.
I’m an infrequent poster on here but enjoy many of the posts every day. I’m gutted about yesterday’s result, it makes me wonder if we need a Lenny type player to get us through games like yesterday! I’m a big fan of Brown but we lose too many games when serious questions are asked.
I worry about our recruitment strategy, particularly in recent times. Griffiths failed to start yesterday, and this has been the way for some time. Rogic, Boerrigter, Balde, Pukki and Biton have all came to the club and played a limited role. So, with the exception ov Virgil good players have left and others have come in and not done it as yet. That is a big problem!
Can the existing squad improve and get us through the Champs league qualifiers? I’m not sure! Peter Lawell and Lenny have some serious thinking to do over the next 3 months!
I don’t feel sorry for Man Utd fans they could switch teams and save on the ole bus fares.
john o’neil
17:14 on 9 February, 2014
Sadie,
you are a wee bit selective about that Karagandy tie as Kris Commons also hit the bar in the away game. Moreover, who cares about friendlies? Anyway, still interesting to read.
Latchford,
could you tell us who should replace Neil Lennon?
………………………………………………………………………..
The difference is John that we allowed ourselves to get into a position that if their crossbar effort had gone in it would have proved fatal. We were all of the opinion that Karagandy were a team that we were far superior to.
Also,”who cares about friendlies?”
If we don’t we should. Jock Stein, remember him? Greatest manager in our history. Won the European Cup. “Celtic don’t play friendlies.” Evidently the many Celtic supporters who travelled to Germany cared about these friendlies.
Jock Stein didn’t treat them as training sessions. Never allowed the Celtic jersey to be shamed. Never allowed the watching Celtic supporters to cheated out of watching a Celtic manager not taking a game of football seriously.
What was the point of playing these games if not to prepare the team for the coming season. It didn’t get them fit. It didn’t help them to work on their passing and movement. Our players still don’t pass and move. It did nothing for them to run around chasing ghosts who were also at the same stage of preparation as we were. To use Paul’s phrase we were an omnishambles.
Van Pearsie
MON always said,when Sralex was in charge,that anyone who wanted to manage the Mankies should aspire to be the next manager but one.MON is a very,very clever man.
History is repeating itself,as Busby’s malevolent boardroom influence did to many a manager there in the 70s.
The level of celebrations over an unimpressive victory at home v Fulham are very telling.
2-1
BSR
Just got back yesterday’s losses in 3mins!
I don’t understand the hatred of Man Utd from some Celtic fans.
Prae
Pleased for ole Celtic legend Davy Moyes, not so much for Man U.
south of tunis
17:34 on 9 February, 2014
TheOriginalSadiesBhoy @17 16
” The Romanian barman was shocked at how bad Celtic looked ”
I watched the friendly v Cluj in a Romanian social club in south east Sicily . Supporters of teams like Steaua, Dinamo and Timosoara got much entertainment from the technical limitations of the Celtic players.
………………………………………….
I know exactly what you’re talking about. Many supporters over here didn’t see the games as the weren’t televised here. We were shocking. Someone mentioned a friendly when we were beaten 6-0 by Liverpool a number of years ago as being a disgrace. That was nothing compared to Greuther Furth who hit woodwork on two or three occasions and missed chances when it was easier to score. The barman was a Steaua fan and he couldn’t understand The lack of pride the Celtic players had.
Sadie,
Had CQN been around in Jock Stein’s time, some posters would have condemned him for some of the results. 4-1 springs to mind. Did that shame the jerseys?
Anybody daft enough to go to Germany in order to see a guaranteed good performance or victory needs their head examined. Friendlies are a waste of time for the paying public. Players aren’t interested. A supporter takes a gamble when paying money to watch a testimonial or friendly. They cannot expect entertainment.
Just spotted Mick Hucknell next to Swallex – looks like something out of ‘Spitting Image’.
HH!!
The question now has to be what happens next — that is next season?
What will the crowds be?
Player ins and outs?
Mood of the support?
Net cash position?
Management new faces?
Not looking good at the moment.
Superb balance sheet but the future is not bright.
You have to ask where did it all go wrong?
Just what can be done to move things forward?
Ernie, in the case of Ryecatcher it is because he is a Liverpool fan I think.
BSR
Cashed out as soon as the Old T ‘Singing Section’ broke into song.
:-)
having been a supporter since mid 1950`s,I have never thought we had a right to win any game unless we earned that right to win,yesterday we didn`t earn that right,hence the result,but that will never stop me being at Paradise to support Celtic.
Some on here mistake basking in the glory of victory as support,the Dogs Bollocks it is,”Faithful thro` and thro`,and if that makes me one of the “hard core”then so be it,seen it,done it,got the T-shirt,
Who wants to be in my gang??
Start a List ;))
Our first champions league play off is 15th/16th July. Forster, efe, izzy, possibly VVD will all play in World Cup and will miss this first qualifiers assuming they get a few weeks break to rest after World Cup.
john o’neil
17:43 on 9 February, 2014
Sadie,
Had CQN been around in Jock Stein’s time, some posters would have condemned him for some of the results. 4-1 springs to mind. Did that shame the jerseys?
Anybody daft enough to go to Germany in order to see a guaranteed good performance or victory needs their head examined. Friendlies are a waste of time for the paying public. Players aren’t interested. A supporter takes a gamble when paying money to watch a testimonial or friendly. They cannot expect entertainment.
………………………..”………………..
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the value of friendlies but would you tell me what 4-1 game you’re referring to? I can’t think of it at the moment.
Dexter
17:02 on
9 February, 2014
Funny I’ve just been having a conversation on the lines of what needs to be done to secure Celtic in the future and Rangers were never mentioned.
I think it is time for some out of the box thinking of what to do with the profits which are likely to arise in the next 5 years if we qualify for the CL in each of them.
Since we did so the last two years, then the player wage bill need not eat into that profit too much to keep us at qualifying level.
Lets say we have £10m profit in each of the next five years. Do we spend it attempting to raise attendances by spending on players or do we use it to a) improve services to supporters and b) find other income streams?
Spending an extra £10M a year on players needs to guarantee an increase of 20,000 SB holders @£500 an SB to get the money back to make that level of spend sustainable year on year.
How much better player quality will £10M buy and how risky a strategy is that in terms of increasing crowds to the target level?
In my opinion £10M is not going to buy such an increase in quality that crowds will rise to a level to sustain it. Simple fact is quality players cost way more than SB prices can afford to fund.
So should it go on creating other income streams that make the quality we do have much less dependent on CL money if we ever fail to qualify?
Should Celtic Park embrace the retail area at Parkhead Forge and become the East End Entertainment Centre?
New housing is springing up, the immediate environment is being transformed, so the population to support more than football will grow.
What we need is a vision that takes in the wider factors whilst never forgetting the prime goal is putting a team on the park that we can be proud of.
Proud not because it wins every time, but proud because it can compete every time (and lose gracefully), proud because it plays the game by the rules on the park and financially off it. Proud because it is a social focus for what was a deprived area, proud because of the charitable work (and charity begins at home so a fair wage) that pays respect to our origins.
Time to plan for a future that frees us from the shackles of the past, to which some may many wish to bind us.
Time for thinking out of the box that Celtic Park currently sits in.
Just spotted the front page of The Sun whilst doing my messages in Morrisons. So Aberdeen received a threatening letter after the Neil Lennon situation at Tynecastle last week.
I wonder if the post mark was from the loyal burgh of Kilwinning.