St Johnstone could cement their position as Scotland’s second most successful team over the last decade. Not that they found it easy, they were pushed all the way to a penalty kick win last night to secure their place in the Scottish Cup semi-finals.
While Celtic have won 19 major trophies in the last decade, Saints are the second most successful club in the country with two wins. St Mirren or Kilmarnock, who play their quarterfinal tonight, could join them on two wins if they take the cup, as would Hibs, if they followed their 2016 success with a win this season, although Hibs tradition is to leave a respectful 114-year gap between Scottish Cup wins.
Apart from Celtic and St Johnstone there have been eight other flash-in-the -pan winners, seven of whom are solvent, not dependent on regular cash calls or in breach of Uefa Financial Fair Play regulations. I know it’s been a hard year but solvency always has the final say.
274 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- 8
- »
Hope lennie’s ok . He’s had a couple of interesting months
JHB on 26TH APRIL 2021 4:05 PM
“The word folded in my understanding means going down without putting up a fight.”
If a business folds it ceases to exist. What do you mean by “going down?”
Do you really think that a business with accumulated losses of over £80m up to its last accounts, a business that has never been profitable, relies on tens of millions of pounds of handouts from its directors, has had going concern warnings in each of its last 3 years audited accounts, who’s commercial deals are so opaque nobody knows who gets paid what for what could be valued the same as us because of qualification for the champions league for a year?
Guyfawkes
That surely cannot be sustained – their costs aren’t going down
Just found the game – might have a look 😉
Funny to be debating how the Huns are about to be worth more than us and the value of two champions league campaigns (80m!) the day after yesterday’s fun.
My own fault of course
Mr King you now own 55% of the Rainjurz FC
Mr Park you now own 81% of the Rainjurz FC
Mr Taylor you now own 45% of the Rainjurz FC
Mr Broxy Bear you now own 51% of the Rainjurz FC
Mr Son of Struth you now own 52% of the Rainjurz FC
Mr Letham you now own own 65% of the Rainjurz FC
Mr Castore you now own 63% of the Rainjurz FC
Mel Brooks……….. zzzzz CSC
How do I get rid of the above? Any Moderators s around?
DONTBRATTBAKKINANGER on 26TH APRIL 2021 4:38 PM
Baby you can drive my car…
John Lennon on top form
CELTIC4ME@ 4:57
As I said “folded” to me means going down, i.e. losing games & going out of competitions without putting up a decent fight.
A debt-free Ibrox business supported by its investors that has won the title in Scotland for two years and has been in the CL group stages for two years – yes I would expect it to be valued on a par with Celtic – why wouldn’t it be?
Video Celts
“…. it seems that McKay will keep a back seat until Celtic appoint a manager, with the main issue resolved he can then discuss his plans without being asked about the elephant in the room- the lack of a manager.
It is more than two months since Neil Lennon resigned, and less than three months to go until Celtic enter the qualifying process for the Champions League”
Yeah thats a good plan, tell them nothing. Its almost as if they couldn’t care less…..oh wait
So a supercomputer calculates we’d finish in 11th place in the EPL. It based its calculations on our previous form against EPL clubs. But did it take into account that we were on SPL money back then? If you consistently punch above your weight, what happens when you move up a weight class and now match your opponent?
We have one last chance to bust their unbeaten domestic league record on Sunday, in the past I’m sure we could all name ex Celtic players who would have gladly given up a weeks salary for such an opportunity, then bust a gut to make sure it was money well spent, they would have run on to the park breathing fire.
What’s the chances of our current squad behaving like that I wonder, not really, slim to none I reckon.
RTB
Dominic is on an induction with Peter – this week it’s how to spot a player ( buy low sell high)
Next week it’s team selection followed by tactics the week after that.
Extra sessions are on communication ‘how to ignore the fans’ and undermining the manager while defending them in the press.
When a business is taken to the market, it is what the future prospects & projections show that determines the price investors will pay to buy all, or, part, of that business.
One only has to look at the number of loss-making web-based ventures brought to the market over the last ten years – recently Uber floated having made staggering losses and been the subject of law suits all over the world.
CL Income –
Teams get 15m euros for reaching the group stage. Then 2.9m for every win and 0.9m for every draw, there are only 6 group games and you can speculate how many sevco would win.
There are some lesser values for the qualifying rounds.
Without considering gate receipts, but even then only 3 home group games.
There’s a separate coef payment based on your coef ranking among the group clubs, but this can be as little as 1m if you’ve the lowest coef of all group participants (sevco are currently 52nd across all Europe clubs, Celtic 46th).
Finally there’s a “market pool” payment that relates to TV income from your country. Again this would be relatively small for Scotland and is shared amongst all participating Scots clubs.
Putting all that together I can’t see it reaching 40m. Beyond the 15m for getting in the grp stage the main factor will be games won and progressing to the further rounds. Good luck with that.
JHB on 26TH APRIL 2021 4:05 PM
My reference to King & “fold” does not refer to our club folding – but the ability to challenge for honours folding in the short-term.
That’s quite the domesday scenario. From 4 trebles to not being able to challenge for trophies in two years. Reduced to also rans, the level of Aberdeen. It’s funny to be talking about this on the day after they blew it again in a cup in Scotland and so soon after they’ve celebrated the first trophy in the nine years the business has existed. A seismic change in fortunes.
I explained why they won’t be near our worth anytime soon. They run at a huge loss without champions league money, they might even run at a loss with it. They’re a business that relies on champions league income and debt to equity swaps for its existence. They aren’t a viable business in their present form.
SCULLYBHOY on 26TH APRIL 2021 3:39 PM
Yep factually correct – but I think you get my point
67ECW
Sevco = Uber. Same same
67 European Cup Winners on 26th April 2021 6:07 pm
SCULLYBHOY on 26TH APRIL 2021 3:39 PM
Yep factually correct – but I think you get my point
67ECW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes, I do.
HH
Weren’t sevco kicked off the aim exchange because they couldn’t find a nomad?
Conveniently removing the need for pesky things like transparency and interim accounts?
Is the business cold-shouldered or was that just King?
geebee1978 on 26th April 2021 3:58 pm
SCULLYBHOY on 26TH APRIL 2021 3:39 PM
You’re right we won the cup but at the risk of sounding hugely pedantic, it was technically last season.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if you were totally pedantic you could also point out that, technically, it was last year.
HH
Remarkable Group of players ouls Sevco have
When they get £40m for getting to CL Group stages, that £40m goes straight back into the club as profit.
No huge bonuses paid to players eating into it.
No infrastructure costs eating into it.
No repayment of debts due.
No replacement costs for recruiting the replacements of 39 yr old McGregor, 38 year old Defoe and 36 year old Davis.
Costs resumed for 32 players they have out on loan at present.
It sounds like some people need to re-assure themselves after the result last night that Sevco are still hugely strong.
Now, I know we have a huge re-structuring job to do but so have they. The stable parts of their squad are Tavernier, Goldson, Barisic, Jack, Kamara, Aribo, Kent and Morelos. You would imagine that , at least 2 or 3 of them need to be sold quickly. Morelos remains a flat track bully goalscorer with attitude problems; Tavernier a guy who depends hugely on Scottish refs for assists, Jack and Kamara who play in unglamorous positions which don’t bring in much in the way of transfer money; Aribo with one good season only behind him; and Goldson as an ex-Brighton reserve would be sought by Championship or League One clubs only. The only players likely to command close to £10m transfer fees are Kent, Morelos and Barisic. If they sold all 3, I reckon they might get £25m in total, but they’d only have less than half of that available to recruit replacements.
The only young player of note that they have is Nathan Patterson and it has taken them years to develop a player suitable for the first team despite the hype surrounding various previous superstars like Jamie Ness (now at Dundee reserves), Ross McRorie (Aberdeen) and Barrie McKay (Fleetwood Town). None of their loanees are tearing it up at their loaned clubs. So, where is the fear?
Yes, if they retain their coachhing staff, then they have made a decent fist of creating a recognisable team pattern of play this year but can they do this trick again with inferior replacements for any 3 from Morelos, Kent, Barisic, Kamara, Aribo and Tavernier?
We will probably lose Edouard, Ajer and Christie. We might lose Jullienn and McGregor too, if we are very unlucky. And we will lose a lot of failed players and loanees like Ntcham, Duffy, Barkas, Kenny and Laxalt.
Two aspects will decide next year’s title:-
1) The recruitment and replacement decisions made on players
2) The coaching departments at both clubs.
These are unknown factors at the moment so I will not be allocating a favourte for the title until more is known about this.
Aff oot for a jab
BOURNESOUPRECIPE @ 4:37 PM
Funny how the CL money allegedly jumps when Celtic aren’t in it?
———-
Indeed.
JHB – I am GENUINELY interested to understand the basis of your supposition that Sevco shares will trade at 45p.
If I may, based on the structural condition of the company here and now, how much do you think a Sevco share is worth today?
————
Primarily for those not old enough to remember it I’ve included this nugget from history.
Word for word this BS was actually published by a so called quality newspaper !!!!!!
By Ken Gallagher
2008
Murray’s Blueprint comes to fruition.
“When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer”.
As Sir David Murray marks his 20th anniversary sitting on the throne at Rangers you get the distinct impression the above quote was one which Plutarch himself could have penned especially for him on the anniversary of his Silver Jubilee.
Last week’s amazing celebrations in Govan to mark Murray’s two decades in charge were the fitting epitaph to what has been a tumultuous tenure at the summit of Scottish Football.
The red, white and blue tickertape parade, children with painted faces slurping fizzy Orange juice and munching sausage rolls, while awaiting the appearance of the great man, brought back memories of the Royal Wedding in 1983 when Prince Charles took Lady Diana Spencer up the aisle. Murray himself could barely have envisaged such scenes 20 years ago when, after a bid to purchase Ayr United failed to materialise, he breezed into Ibrox having acquired the club for £8m from Lawrence Marlborough.
But with European trophies resting in the Ibrox blueroom alongside 20 glittering SPL titles and 20 domestic cups, it’s not difficult to understand why Murray is held in such high esteem by his adoring public. As far as deliveries go, the Rangers Chairman could get a high ranking position in the Royal Mail while holding down a part time job circulating milk to the elderly. When Murray promises something, rest assured, you can take it to the bank.
Of course, Rangers’ accomplishments on the pitch are only one small chapter of the Murray success story. The magnificent Ibrox stadium complete with helipad, casino, 50 bedroom hotel and underground concert hall housing the award-winning Ibrox Philharmonic, is a concrete testament to something which is often measured in pure sentiment alone. The bricks and mortar – not to mention the tonnes of marble and glass – have laid solid foundations for Rangers’ domination of Scottish football and occasional forays into Europe for generations to come.
As far-reaching and impressive as his achievements at Ibrox have been though, it would be wrong to say Murray hasn’t been as good for Scotland as he has for Rangers. As Her Majesty’s Royal train made its way north before shunting in at Govan’s regenerated heartland it was difficult to imagine a time when, before Murray’s intervention, the area was a mere wasteland. The cafe bars, restaurants and promenades which have helped reinvent this little corner of Glasgow’s once tarnished image are a footnote in what has been an extraordinary contribution to contemporary Glasgow life.
The life-size bronze statue of Murray unveiled by HRH Elizabeth ll – someone whose name sits comfortably on his roladex alongside Sean Connery, Gordon Brown, David Rockerfeller and Prince Albert of Monaco – is a lasting monument to a man whose legacy will surely remain long after he has departed. The sculptured lines and chiselled features capture the essence of Murray perfectly – and while not quite the golden calf, its fair to say that Rangers supporters will come from far and wide to marvel at its splendour.
As former Gers legends Ronaldo, Gianluca Viallia, Mario Jardel, Floran Radicouiou, Moreno Torricelli and Egil Ostenstad rose in unison to toast Murray’s long life at the sumptuos after dinner banquet – it was difficult not to feel a little envious of the former Young Businessman of the Year who disregarded his humble Ayrshire background to become regarded as the jewell in Britain’s entrepreneurial crown.
The Rangers chairman, with a fleet of luxury yachts, a thriving business Empire, a debt free football club – which has become the business model for others to follow – and a young 21-year old French wife, would be entitled to feel contented with his lot in life. But no. This is a man who has more to do. Within him burns a fiery passion that has taken him to where he is today.
“Rest assured,” Murray warned, “this journey has only just begun. I won’t settle until this Rangers team has won back to back European Cups. I see spending £20m on someone like Yakubu as absolutely nessecary. If other clubs wish to challenge us then rest assured we will not be found wanting. Celtic tried but ultimately didnt have deep enough pockets.”
Those resounding words will be music to the ears of the Ibrox faithful who have come to trust Murray as a man who carries out his promises. On the other side of Glasgow though, you can sense a collective groan from Celtic supporters who, to a man, must wish that Murray had acquired Ayr United instead.
Whitevale and Bluevale Towers from Gallowgate, Glasgow. (2014) Pic: Alasdair W.
https://twitter.com/74frankfurt/status/1386576302560399361/photo/1
“We only need one league. We don’t need two or three. We need one. Once we take one away, it’s a pack of cards.”
GLIB
sftb
” Aff oot for a jab ”
AZ CSC
JHB,
your business knowledge is on a par with your superb political analysis.
I can see why Jim Murphy was so succesful while you held his demin jaisket.
” For every fiver Celtic earn in the CL we’ll earn a tenner ”
Douglas Park
They wont “trade their way” out of it, it will go the same way.
Always speculation that there is PUL involvement in the monies coming in for confetti shares.
Who is the parcel of brown brogues in their boardroom is truelly wealthy ?
This purple and orange patch on the pitch, I am certain it wont continue next year.
They will get a doing in the CL qualifiers.
Lest they forget
————————-
Adam shakes Ibrox pillars with warning of bankruptcy
Glenn gibbons Chief football writer
THERE are licensed premises in Glasgow where the regular patrons will consider the recent deeds and utterances of the former Rangers director, Hugh Adam, to be nothing less than acts of treason.
This should be regarded as a natural, almost understandable, reaction from immovably devoted supporters of the Ibrox club to the decision by Adam to unload his 59,000 shares in Rangers on the basis that they were heading towards worthlessness, thanks to the unsatisfactory business methods of the chairman, David Murray.
Almost certainly viewed as an even more heinous offence would be Adams claim that Celtic are run much more competently and that investment in the Parkhead club would be a much sounder proposition for anyone wishing to purchase shares in a football institution.
It would be tempting for many to dismiss Adams action as merely a gratuitous attack on Murray by a disillusioned, 76-year-old ex-employee carrying a grudge. But Adam has been a candid critic of the way Rangers have operated for years, ever willing to voice his unease – indeed, his incomprehension – at losses he has always insisted were unsustainable.
He also has impressive credentials, having been chairman and managing director of Rangers Development and Rangers Pools since 1971, raising the millions which built the modern Ibrox. Adams efforts brought the club around £18million, about £60million at todays values.
To say that his final severance with Ibrox, after three separate terms as a director amounting to about 15 years of service, was done in a fury would be inaccurate, but in conversation this week it became evident that his decision is underpinned by unmistakable disgust.
Not given to sensationalism, this essentially conservative disciple of prudent forward planning and low-risk business principles did, however, cause something of a shock by observing almost matter-of-factly that, if Rangers continue on their present track, their ultimate destination will be bankruptcy.
“Thats the logical conclusion to a strategy that incurs serious loss year on year,” said Adam. “In the past five years – and its all there in the last annual report – Rangers have lost £80million.
“Now, the banks are well known for being a bit more tolerant of companies whose core business is a popular pursuit like football. But there is a limit to how far backwards they can bend to accommodate you.
“David Murray has always had an amazing persuasiveness when it comes to getting people to put money into his businesses, but the signs are that those sources have dried up.
“The £40million worth of shares that ENIC (English National Investment Company) bought a few years ago are now worth about £15million, with no evidence to suggest that they will recover. The money itself, that which was actually invested, was lost some time ago.
“Now the latest investor, Dave King from South Africa, will know that his £20million shareholding is worth around half, or even less, of what it was when he bought. No proper businessman will want to buy into that kind of loss.”
ADAM sold 12,000 of his 59,000 shares last year and the balance of 47,000 just recently. For the latter, he got £1.15 each; three years ago, they were valued at £3.45. He is convinced Rangers cannot trade their way out of trouble, unless they gain access to a league that will attract higher-bracket income from TV. He was in favour of the proposed Atlantic League, involving the Old Firm and clubs from Holland, Portugal and other countries, but is extremely sceptical of their chances of joining the English Premiership.
He is adamant that Rangers do not have the customer base to improve their financial standing through merchandising. “Rangers so-called global appeal is a myth,” he said. “When I was there, we did an exercise which involved asking 50,000 fans on the database to recommend a friend or a relative abroad.
“A big response was expected – some were even talking about getting 100,000 names – because everybody in Scotland seems to know somebody abroad.
“We got back 2,800 names and three-quarters of them didnt know they had been nominated. Its no surprise that Celtic are officially the best-supported football club in North America, with more official clubs than anybody else. The difference is the Irish connection.
“Many Irish people may support Manchester United, Liverpool or whoever, but they all – every one of them – have an affection for Celtic. And, of course, Celtic also have a great Scottish following.
“The difference is that, while the Irish all have an allegiance to Parkhead, there are millions of Scots who not only dont support Rangers, but actively dislike them.
“Despite the claims of international appeal, Rangers are, essentially, a West of Scotland club. They talk of supporters buses leaving from all parts of Scotland, but if you look closely, youll see there arent many from each area and they are not all full.
“This doesnt mean that even Celtic will earn fortunes from emigrant supporters. There may be more of them than Rangers fans, but it doesnt mount to the kind of income necessary to fund their ambitions. But Celtic have been, since Fergus McCanns arrival, much the better-run club.
“Fergus was the most unjustly maligned man in the history of the game, when you consider that he took the club from bankruptcy into the mainstream and built that stadium along the way.
NOW, the Celtic board have more financial heavyweights than Rangers, with people like Brian Quinn, Dermot Desmond and Sir Patrick Sheehy.
“Its only in the last couple of years that Celtic have sustained losses, but over the five-year period they break even. But Brian Quinn and his board are taking steps to warn people that they are not in the business of heading towards bankruptcy.
“For their pains – for doing their job properly – they get crucified in the media, accused of penny-pinching. I dont understand it.
“They are determined to keep Celtic properly managed, while Rangers, with Murray, is a one-party state and the man in power has an allergy to any form of personal criticism. But hes not a businessman in the long-term sense of planning and prudence, hes more of an impresario.
“But what has been happening is unfair on shareholders, and theyre being short-changed.
“Its a nonsense, too, to say that Rangers shareholders are all supporters who arent interested in dividends or profits.
“Thats okay for the man with 50 shares, framed and hung on his wall. The number of shareholders in that category would amount to a minuscule percentage of the equity.
“But Im 76 and havent had a dividend in years, so whats the point of me keeping shares until they dwindle to nothing? And Im certain the people at ENIC wont be too pleased with their investment.”
If Raman on STV was sad about the defeat if the deid team yesterday, he was hiding it well. He ended the sports section of the STV News with a broad smile on his face….
The Retro CelticFour leaf clover
@RetroCeltic
The Great and the Good Four leaf clover
https://twitter.com/RetroCeltic/status/1384992426700509184/photo/1
£10m for Alfredo Morelos?…Are you kiddin on?
So, including his contract, that would be a £20m commitment.
Teams that buy strikers at that money don’t buy guys like Alfredo Morelos ffs.
Sevco PR and the Scottish press have played a blinder with this guy but not enough to get him a move.
Overpaid
Over valued
Overweight
Over hyped
Discipline issues
Scores heavy against Gilbraltar, Killie and Ayr United.
And don’t get me started on Kent- he’s unable to dominate a game in Scotland. Although his step-overs in front of the dug-out are impressive.
They are desperate to sell a player for £5m+….. I predict they won’t any time soon.
BACKTOBASICS @ 6:26
JHB – I am GENUINELY interested to understand the basis of your supposition that Sevco shares will trade at 45p.
——————–
I didn’t say they WOULD trade at 45p – my hypothesis was as follows:
If the debt-free company was valued similar to Celtic at £100m, and why shouldn’t it be, then in an say an IPO situation, that notional value could be divided by the number of existing issued shares, which I calculated to be 225 million. That would give an opening flotation price of around 45p per share. If, as some say, there are 300m shares in existence then the price would adjust proportionally . The market will determine the value, not past behaviour, nor, previous losses.
However the point of my post was not to get bogged down in the detail of the actual outcome, but to shed some light on the motivation of those happily underwriting the ongoing annual losses.
If others have an alternative explanation why experienced business men are sinking money into the Ibrox club, I should be delighted to hear it.
I read about the debilitating effect that the Sports Direct thing will have – how long have we been talking about this? – it is in the ‘long grass’ – will it ever come out? Points like this remind me of the “none of their squad would get into our first team’ guff that was rife on here at the start of the season.
We are all Celtic fans – does that mean we cannot be rational & objective?
DBBIA
good to see you on :-)
Bigjimmy / Davie
definetly jimmy and i will stay for a few this time.funnily enough came through George sq there.not a spare seat goin,even the uncovered one.
you take it easy jimmy,will catch uo soon :-)
hh
What a mess our club is currently in , or what a mess our club has been allowed to be in . In my opinion we have been grossly mismanaged the past few years . I have no doubt there are many who won’t agree with my comment , many who will think that we have just had bad luck , covid bans , injuries , which to a point we have had . But let me say my ire is directed at two people , the two who matter , as for the rest does anyone know what they actually do . Let me ask why Dermot stood on a golf course and sang praise to our main rivals ,a spouting that shocked every single supporter who purchased a ticket to park there backside on a seat within Celtic park . Nor did it end with that , the content of his praise came to pass , the badly missed great club with the great history got the lifeline they needed , so much so that they ended our reign , a wee shot at the CL could boost them further , and if with help from the usual suspects straight into the CL group stages will end the money worries of an outfit who shouldn’t be playing football in any league , What a slap in the face to the Celtic support . The other guy I hold accountable ,but reading on here still has support which I find odd after the interference in things he knew nothing about , when we had a man in place more than capable to look after our club . Our recruiting history over the past few years has left a lot to be desired , not all signings we have had , a couple of good buys but in the main very poor . We missed out on j Mcginn . For what over 5 million Now valued at 40- 45 million . Toney 5 million unsure of his value but I bet way in excess of 10-15 million . And dilly dally on the boy Davis ,on a free allowing klopp to step in , No use to them so don’t be surprised the scouser doesn’t deliver another slap down to us and sign him up . If the Christie contract story is confirmed it should be a sacking offence . I know this has been a rant , I just can’t see with the massive rebuild required us getting back anytime soon , things have been let go too far .
Laxalt If you think Moreloss is overhyped what about the young left back , his howler in the derby would had been a major talking point if EFE had made it , but it was never mentioned by those bumming him up , hes young and fast and that’s it IMO .
what dermot said about the huns on a golf course is a total red herring when discussing how pish we have been this season
im sure rory mcillroy thinks dustin johnston is a great golfer
and toto wolffe thinks ferarri are a great F1 team
but that doesnt mean they dont go all out to beat them
they do
but dermot didnt
which is a totally different issue
Paul 67
It’s good to know that St. Johnstone have a structure and a plan in place .
How i envy them .
This Day in Irish History
@ThisDayIrish
·
11h
This day 105 years ago – 26 April 1916 – Francis Sheehy-Skeffington was executed without trial on the order of Captain John Bowen-Colthurst.
Skeffington was one of the most progressive figures in Ireland at the time – a suffragist, vegetarian, atheist, and committed pacifist.
https://twitter.com/ThisDayIrish/status/1386575778352046084/photo/1