Celtic v Kilmarnock, Live updates
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The_Huddle,
The CFCB would now be investigating the SFA’s administration of UEFA licensing, big trouble.
The LNS decision would have been questioned.
The5 way agreement would have been made public and all supporters across the country would have know exactly what the SFA and SPL were up to,
The sort of things the suppoters would not have allowed but the Plc were happy to do nothing about.
I suppose Tony D is in the BV for he has not replied for sometime. One thing has me somewhat bemused by his recent answer that he had spoken to Lawwell and Bankier in the Board room on Saturday. Well, we knew your were about to do this. Did you not say so on Friday evening? But you also intimated that you would report back to the blog the truth about who misrepresented the truth.
Now you tell us that you cannot do so because of private conversations between you and those guys. Were you just hoping we would forget that you were on a mission to root out the truth and to present it to us?
Afternoon again
A quick question. What has happened to Saidy Janko, Since picking up an injury in the game at Hamilton he is rarely mentioned – I had not thought he was too badly injured or that he was as bad as some of the other signings we have made since the start of the year but he seems to have become, like Anthony Stokes, an un-Person?
Jimbo67
SFTB
I disagree. You make your bed you lie in it.
CQN has become the eiptome of; if you can´t take the ball (i.e the argument ..mainly down to stupidity if I am being honest) then tackle the man.
Happened to me on Friday night with one of the resolutioners. So what ? that is what CFC is all about these days. The money.
If the blogs clarion call of non lazy journalism is still being used and it is and it is not adhering to that standard then why should anyone else adhere to common deceny?
Even our own chairman is at it ?
HH
Canamalar on 22nd November 2015 4:49 pm
The CFCB would now be investigating the SFA’s administration of UEFA licensing, big trouble.
The LNS decision would have been questioned.
The5 way agreement would have been made public and all supporters across the country would have know exactly what the SFA and SPL were up to,
The sort of things the suppoters would not have allowed but the Plc were happy to do nothing about.
————-
Yep but if after all that he SFA say you are wrong, the Huns won everything legally. What can Celtic do? What can the fans do?
They released their limp statement after the LNS result because really they couldn’t do anything else.
Clubs are pretty powerless no matter how they are owned.
Our we’ll quit Scotland is bluster, unless that has any reality we as a club are powerless.
decency
Joe Filippis Haircut
A fan on the board can relay any information that he/she feels should be made public. That in itself is a huge thing for a PLC boardroom Id imagine.
I think though that a fan rep on the board is not enough. Every board member should be elected by a vote. The vote doesn’t even need to be one member one vote. It just needs to be balanced.
BRTH 2.55
Good to see you raise again what I believe should be the top item on the Celtic supporters’ agenda which is the legacy DD leaves behind.
Now if it were me and I wanted my old man to leave me his legacy I’d be wanting to persuade him I was capable of making it prosper in a way he could buy into.
To do that he would need to believe in me and my ability to turn his legacy into mine.
I see no sign of that approach emerging at all although to be fair I doubt anyone has thought that far ahead, although there is a new forum set up to do so.
A working party drawn from across the support spectrum to see what models other clubs use and recommend the best match to Celtic’s ethos would be a start.
The_Huddle,
I made three points and you tried to answer one, the LNS decision could have been challenged much more vigerously in fact the club could have asked FIFA to clarify the Beyson law.
Bourne
The statement has also been signed by the Affiliation hopefully that will add to the weight of anger and disappointment in Bankier’s comments.
jimbo67 on 22nd November 2015 4:52 pm
Afternoon again
A quick question. What has happened to Saidy Janko, Since picking up an injury in the game at Hamilton he is rarely mentioned – I had not thought he was too badly injured or that he was as bad as some of the other signings we have made since the start of the year but he seems to have become, like Anthony Stokes, an un-Person?
I do not understand that either.
Many people from Manchester I know were none too pleased they let him go.
The boy needs games and I mean 6 or so consecutive to have a chance.
Will he ever get it?
Jimbo67
On a day when the Aberdeen support focus the spotlight on the real enemy of Scottish football- The SFA, we have the attention seeking elements of our support pointing their guns at our own club.
Unless and until the SFA are brought to account, Celtic Football Club means nothing, no matter who is on the Board.
We are first and foremost a football club. A football club competes against other football clubs, in order to win trophies.
This is all controlled by rules and regulations, to ensure fair competition.
Unfortunately, it is not what the Scottish game is about.
Instead of building a coalition of supporters with other clubs, our dissidents attack Celtic.
The only consolation is that the CT and GB are merely an irritation, who operate within their own wee bubble, seeking a platform for their political agenda.#inclusive
HERBO, If a fan on the board spoke out about sensitive business that the board did not want disclosed a that time he/she would soon find that they would be excluded by the board in one way or another from any other sensitive business and it would become a pointless position in my view. H.H.
Canamalar on 22nd November 2015 5:03 pm
I made three points and you tried to answer one, the LNS decision could have been challenged much more vigerously in fact the club could have asked FIFA to clarify the Beyson law.
—————
My response covered your general points that yes fans and even clubs can do things but ultimately they don’t have the power to quit. And that is a persons ultimate power quitting.
If FIFA decide in favour of the SFA what then? Celtic can’t quit the SPL, do you think they can?
ThomTheTim
Remind me. What are our club doing in regards to the scandals you have highlighted?
Thomthethim
The Celtic Trust have one agenda and that is to uphold the ethos of Celtic as we see it. Now you may disagree with some of the things we do but to claim that they are politically motivated is wholly inaccurate and simply wrong.
FAN-A-TIC @ 4.11
“So to summarise Ronnies system
Forward movement-Very little
Threat-Negligible
Possession-Lots without purpose
Defense-A work in progress
System-Unfathomable”
You have summarised your view of Ronny’s system: you have not summarised Ronny’s system. For a team with negligible threat, little purpose and no movement we seem to fluke an unjustifiably high number of goals and concede very few in Domestic football, where his record bears favourable comparison with most Celtic managers. And, yes, I do acknowledge that the absence of the Beast means that he can expect less credit for this because everyone on CQN and their wives (except me and mine) could do it easily, apparently. We have raised the bar of expectations for Ronny, because of such Old Firm thinking, that we cannot enjoy a good win because it is just what we expected and we cannot tolerate dropped points, because we have convinced ourselves that such a thing should never happen when we have this level of financial advantage over other teams in our league. No manager, even one supplying a 5:0 victory in each and every domestic fixture, could survive the weight of such expectations. We would merely scale up our expectations and berate them for failing to reach double figures.
Ronny has won 2 out of 3 domestic competitions whilst he has been in charge of Celtic. He is on course for a treble (albeit early days). His system is delivering domestically at a level comparable with most of our history. The main difference is that we, as fans, are more unhappy with it because we miss the edge of competition that Rangers used to provide.
Of course, Europe is another matter. We have failed there. But our failure has included one season of Europa League qualification and a narrow defeat to Inter, and some good early Europa performances with squandered results, followed by 2 bad Molde performances. We might yet match last year’s Europa qualification, but I would not bet any money on it. That wouls merely leave our Euro ranking at a level similar to where it was between 1974 and 2001 i.e the vast majority of our adult life, a period we look back on with rosy eyed nostalgia.
The aesthetics of the performances are equally subjective. Just tune into CQN match day reports and you will see a repeated pattern of miserabilist moaning and foretellings of doom up to and often beyond, our first and second goal. Some do not allow themselves any room for joy in a Celtic performance for fear of being out of step with other observers (it is CQN’s equivalent of Solomon Asch’s Social Psychology experiments).
Now, like you, I can see a lot wrong with the current Celtic. We have a defensive set up very open to counter attack. We have days when our movement and ingenuity fail to sparkle and, most worryingly, we have signs that player/management relationships are strained. But Ronny promised a great deal of this when he came. He spoke of challenging players out of their pragmatic comfort zones- to be brave on the ball and to keep possession and to fight to win it back. I have even seen it delivered in some bright patches of play. I retain my initial suspicion that he is asking our players to be better than they actually are in the hope that they will rise to the demands. My own natural tendencies, as a coach in my own sport, were far more pragmatic. Ronny is undoubtedly an idealist in his thinking and I am not so I should not have any sympathy for his vision but I do. The alternative is that we go back to the pragmatic visions of WGS and NFL, visions that we said we were glad to see the back of when they left.
Sometimes, I fear we do not know what we truly want- we just know that this is not it. It is hard for anyone to match up to such vague dissatisfaction.
The Huddle,
What about the CFCB question ?
There is the alternative to all of these, challenge them through the courts, the UEFA licensing admin has them bang to rights if the CFCB fount in their favour then court action would take both out.
JFH
You may be right. Then we go back to the PLC structure.
I’m absolutely with BRTH on that one. But as a Trust supporter and member Im sure that comes as no surprise.
Fundamentally the support must be more involved in the decision making and they must have a say in whose calling the shots. It’s the least we should have. Imo anyway.
Oh and you raised the quit option ot me so please don’t use it as if I put that option out there, I have been very clear, the SFA would be in very serious trouble, if the support owned the club becuase the support would not be so accommodating to the old firm or the SFA machinations.
Minceyheidman @ 5.04
In answer to your question I would imagine he will not, I thought he looked a decent right wing back rather than a classic right back and as Ronny seems to prefer full backs who are attack minded I thought he might have got a run. It could of course just be sloppy reporting or lazy scrutiny of the media by me but he does seem to have disappeared. Perhaps not a vital issue in comparison with some which affect Celtic on and off the park but I am curious all the same
Jimbo67
I’m trying to think of a decision made by the board that would be so sensitive it could not be discussed, could someone who made this claim provide and example ?
SETTING FREE THE BEARS 5.09 A first class post fella, I concur. H.H.
The Huddle
Interesting take and comments on my earlier post.
I stress again I do not have all the answers but what I do know is that what has been delived via the PLC route was not what Fergus offered the fans who bought shares nor, I suspect, what he intended.
However, leaving that aside, the main point for me is not whether Bankier, Livingstone, Lawwell or whoever is employed by a PLC or provide a management committee to a different model, but whether that model — even with the same people in situ — would provide greater accountability and greater representation for the fans.
Everyone would agree that Brian Quinn provided a great service to Celtic and any management committee or board would be desperate to get him on board.
That is the same Brian Quinn who off his own back privately called up the Celtic Charity Foundation and offered to be one of the bucketeers collecting for the charity at the ground during last year’s winter appeal.
The man gets Celtic in and out of the boardroom.
Other boardroom types only get the boardroom.
When I talk about a fan based model, I do not suggest for a moment that some sort of keyboard rabble run the club on a whim. What I do suggest is that really good professional people are employed and are accountable to the wider support and not just 5 people and their satellites.
Most AGM motions are passed with over 98% voting in favour despite the majority in the room voting against. Other motions where there are no dissenting votes in the room the vote is 99.7%.
In other words the AGM room is filled with lots of voices but only about 1% of votes.
That was not what Fergus inetended. He wanted a professionally run club with far greater fan engagement and accountability.
Three weeks ago I was in discussion with a board representative and the question was raised about the floor attitude to Ian Livingstone. The comment was made that Celtic was a broad church and that all political views were welcome.
My response was to say that all that was well and good but at the same time the public politics of a board member is a matter of interest to the members of a company who pay him to represent that company and the ethos behind it and those who finance it. As a member of a fan committee for the foundation it seemed to me to send out a mixed message.
Finally, I suggested that it would be good for Ian Livingstone, the club and the board, if Livingstone made a statemet before the AGM about why he voted the way he did and his views on the issue which people could agree or disagree with as they chose.
Not for the first time, no statement was made and the Celtic support/shareholders are left to think the worst.
That is poor management and there are numerous other examples of that at Celtic where small shareholder perception is simply ignored because the minority control the voting majority.
Every shareholder in Celtic PLC, every season ticket holder, every business partner who does business with the club should be made to feel important and respected.
They are not because, sadly, there is a corporate mentality at play instead of a club mentality where each person is of importance.
Paul67, myself and various other posters on here can cite numerous examples of that.
A glaring example is that it is recommended that PLC’s change their non execs every 3-5 years. We have non execs who have been there twice as long.
It is plain bad governance and it only exists because the PLC model and those who run it allows such a situation without fear of retribution.
If this and other posts create debate and discussion then it will have been worth it.
Canamalar on 22nd November 2015 5:12 pm
What about the CFCB question ?
There is the alternative to all of these, challenge them through the courts, the UEFA licensing admin has them bang to rights if the CFCB fount in their favour then court action would take both out.
——————
But we are still under SFA rule, if we win then great all is wonderful and you won’t need to buy another drink ever :o) but what I’m saying even if all the evidence is in our favour and we still don’t get the correct result what then? We can’t quit football?
Manager or players?
Tactical nous v attitude of players?
Remember when we pumped the Sir Alex’s Manure team of Van De Sar, Neville, Ferdinand, Vidic, Heintz; Ronaldo, Scholes, Carrick ?, Giggs; Rooney and Saha.
Wee Gordon’s team, (quick quiz, no googling, what was it), was, as I recall, thought of as having no chance in the match.
I recall many long term supporters fearing the worst before the kick off, on seeing our line up and theirs.
How many of that team would play for us now? How many of that team would you pick to play for us now? A wee clue, Paul Telfer or Mikael Lustig, Evander Sno or Nir Bitton?
So, in that game we progressed to the last 16 of the Champions League, with a game to spare.
Where are we now?
Manager or players?
Systems or attitude?
EC67
BorictelferbobomickleetommysnolennynakamagicjvohCSC
Ronny Deila is one of the best things about Celtic right now in my opinion.
Unfortunately he has very little input on recruitment policy. That should be remembered.
TTT
I agree with you on most things, apart from the GB & the trust.
You reckon they have political motives, I don’t.
But I would rather have a politically motivated socialist group running our club anyday, as opposed to the right wing tory scum that are presently running our club.
Apart from that, we tend to agree :-)
HH
I liked Paul Telfer :O)
Canamalar
“Enough rope to hang themselves”
Fortunately. A supporter was there.
Pity no-one was there after the “shame game” and it’s fallout.
Mullet and Co @ 4.28
“Seville… The great benchmark after which we have bumped up and down but never above this high.”
The benchmark achieved by Alaves, Middlesborough, Fulham and Espanyol.
See just after we were achieving this, there were regular posts on CQN which said we need to kick on from that level and start to qualify out of CL Group Stages, which we saw as being a harder and more impressive target than being losing UEFA finalists.
Two things happened which altered this view about the relative difficulty levels of being losing Euro/Europa finalists and being successful CL Group qualifiers.
The first was the deid club achieving this outcome first under McCleish.
The second was us doing it under an unpopular, “downsizing” manager, WGS. The fact the wee unpopular bassa achieved our Holy Grail twice and even that useless NFL managed it meant we were suffering from cognitive dissonance.
How could an achievement we considered to be bigger than Seville be accomplished by haddies like McCleish, Strachan and Lennon, when the revered MON had not managed this? So, like the Fox with the Grapes, we resolved our Cognitive Dissonance by deciding that Seville WAS a superior accomplishment to last 16 CL status, even though the rest of European football did not share this delusion.
Seville was a great emotional journey for us as a club and fans but, as a sporting achievement it falls way below Milan 1970, which we never celebrate and below our 3 CL qualifications. We passed the Seville benchmark on those 3 occasions but we did not like it. We prefer being a tennis finalist on the Challenger tour than being a quarter finalist on the ATP tour.
On fire today :O)
The_Huddle,
Why do you insist in bringing it back to quitting ?
That is not an option, however as we are finding out there are plenty of other options a member club can use, not least of all a judicial review, civil litigation and CAS.
And no I’m not talking about quitting that’s your idea and IMO a silly idea when there are so many other options available.
Herbo@ 4.37
Very fair response and I agree.
Regardless of the political persuasions of anyone in our boardroom, what Wankier implied was a sinister slur on the fanbase of Celtic…..
These guys have 364 days a year to plan what condescending shite they will spew at the annual party conference/ AGM….so….was this an improvised ad lib to a question from the cheap seats?
Naw…naw…and triple naw!!
The fact that such an incompetent Wankier is in the privileged position he finds himself in,at Celtic ,resonates volumes on our corporate governance……
Don’t worry about the Deadhuns and their criminal tribute act spawn…..Sort out our own house first……..Sevco are an irrelevance!!
Get rid of Wankier NOW
Get rid of Delia the Dud NOW
Get Henke in NOW
Oh Celtic know all about their troubles ….Paraphrased from the Deadclub songbook…….
Was at the Aberdeen game on 31st October……Paradise had the atmosphere of a library from the old Celtic end unless you could hear the marvellous Green Brigade.I don’t get back often but don’t feel as if I’m missing much in life after ‘the £29 Matchday Experience’…..Christy Moore,at the Barrowland, was cheaper the night before but 10 times the value.Ffs the Jakes at St.Vincent bar afterwards were 10 times the value and they were free.
Celtic Plc…….know the price of everything ….but the value of feck all!!
These Wankiers in the Boardroom are killing Celtic….
Starve them out Bhoys!!
Scott Allan – time to give him a starting berth Ronnie – he could be the missing link – but we’ll never know unless he gets more playing time than the odd 5 minuted here and there. Just a passing thought guys.
ROCK TREE BHOY on 22ND NOVEMBER 2015 5:32 PM
Scott Allan should in starting 11 on Thursday as should Stuart Armstrong in his best central midfield position. The suspensions on Bitton and Johansen is the perfect opportunity to play those two with Brown as the middle three.
Canamalar on 22nd November 2015 5:28 pm
Why do you insist in bringing it back to quitting ?
That is not an option, however as we are finding out there are plenty of other options a member club can use, not least of all a judicial review, civil litigation and CAS.
And no I’m not talking about quitting that’s your idea and IMO a silly idea when there are so many other options available.
————–
I never said you brought up quitting, that was purely my option. I’m saying football clubs don’t have the option of quitting. If you can’t quit something then you are pretty limited in the power you have.