Celtic v Valencia, Live updates
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50 shades of green,
Brendans team sheet on Sunday should be an indicator.
I expect Broonie to be on the bench and Olivier to get going.
They were not a magical Spanish side but they were extremely positionally aware all over.
Broonie was a lot better 2nd half (done a cracking pass) but the game was gone by then.
Kojo.CSC
Good morning CQN
Didn’t post last night as too frustrated with how we once again played in Europe.
VFR post @10.01 was spot on
SPFL team against mediocre Spanish team, who are about 1 second ahead of us in thought and movement
Valencia, ensured the full game was played in front of them, how often did we turn them ? Or get in behind them ?
Their left back sat about 2 yards behind JF through the game, afraid of our pace, did we once put the ball over the top and try to run at them epwith our pace ?
My own view
Celtic happy to dominate in SPFL
But
Will not commit any spend to give us a chance to compete in Europe
Rodgers gave an interview last night and agreed with my thoughts on why we couldn’t break down Valencia. We passed the ball in and out along the back line into Brown, into McGregor, out to Boyata out to Izzy.
Brown couldn’t turn into the pack, McGregor struggled. No defender played a significant pass to switch the play at any time.
Rodgers saw it tried to change it but the players he chose couldn’t do it.
Passing deep in your own 18 yard box is fine as long as there is a purpose and someone for the man receiving the ball to pass to. The top sides have the same movement into space to receive the ball as they would do further up the park. We have players there who are ingrained in 20 odd years of defending not pass and move out from the bi line. There are no decoys or dummy runs to create space. If you are going to play from the back you need movement and showing for the ball not players in table football positions receiving the ball under pressure.
Yes playing from the back as it was intended is the antidote to Valencia’s game last night. Pulling them towards you stops the deadlock from the halfway line to their goal where you just can’t get by them or pivot into their packed spaces.
St Johnstone tried the same game on Sunday but their agility and fitness / fleet of foot is not close to Valencia.
Celtic may do well to consider giving the ball to the opposition and let them make mistakes because it is obvious we can’t maximise the possession game.
Brown had a terrible game last night. Isolated and lacks the pace needed. To be fair when he did break out of the deep positions in the first half he lacked proper options or a colleague running parallel to him to minimise his risk or give the option of an easy pass.
Christie looks to go into a number 10 position but could have done with dropping back into the space to let others go beyond him.
We persisted with two wingers when Sinclair played up the alley on his own until he was taken off. Forrest had some flashes but played inside with no one running off him. Sacrificing Sinclair for Ntcham early second half and having Ntcham on the left midfield with Forrest coming narrow on the right may have given us more options in a packed midfield or the ability to win some second balls.
Be interesting to see how the players react at Killi and try to protect the 6 points on the run up to Rangers visit late next month. Both of those teams will play the same game as Valencia.
When was the last time a full back or defender switched the play by missing out team mates and played a pass from one flank to the other?
In my opinion Celtic did not lay a glove on Valencia it was men against Bhoys once again Brendan has been found wanting he may be a great manager in Scottish football but his European exploits are very poor indeed and playing Burke up front as a striker works against St.Mirren etc but not against a decent team Valencia are not great just decent. In European football we have been very poor since before Brendan joined us and although he tells us after every European defeat the players will learn from it well I dont see it and I dont see Brendan learning from it. It is getting that I dread watching Celtic in Europe as getting gubbed so often is not enjoyable so we still have to go to Valencia we will noy overturn there two goal lead but surely we can put up a performance over to you Brendan. H.H,
Bhoys; the problem’s not so much about ‘giving the ball away’, than it was about effective defending.
They gave the ball to us for big periods and it didn’t hurt them a bit.
Their team was better organised and, so, they marked our plays and players effectively.
Better marking/defensive awareness would have nullified their soft goals.
Surely BR sees it was really about position, not possession? (He set us up and sent us out brilliantly til then tho)
HH
Qualified for the group stages, won three, lost three, beat RB Leipzig – a top German team these days. Beat by Valencia, but glad now that we are at least trying to go toe to toe with these teams – playing possession, attaching football. The defeats are part of the pain of transitioning from a purely defensive approach to a more controlling one. Still weaknesses, but progress compared to previous years.
HH
BGFC
Big game Sunday, no time to be feeling sorry for ourselves. Arguably one of our toughest assignments in the SPFL due to the surface. The 3 points on Sunday are huge.
Jeremy was my MOTM last night – easily, closely followed by Scottie B in goals.
It’s such a shame instability is Everywhere Now.
Imo, last night we went back to playing as we did before Scott Brown got injured. Passing side ways and backwards. I hope Sunday sees us playing the way we have since and that may well mean Scott being dropped, both for Sunday and next Thursday.
TIME 2:42
That was garbage last night, stopped watching with 20 minutes left , not did that since our Euro Murrayfield games
Telling that Broonie and Brendan talked up the Bankie Bhoy.
Nobody Knows Anything – Thats Certain. :))
Everyone makes mistakes – anyone who thinks they make a lot less than me – Heaven Help You.
Love
Not buying the ” Broonie is finished at this level “, he was poor first half last night, better in the second, but finished,,,NA
YNWA
Good Morning… Misty morning, cloud in the sky… wee cloud in my heart an awe…
Only because our domestic form could not make the leap to tier three European level.
This is the level Celtic should be competing at. We are way short.
This is not due to the Manager, Coaches or Players. We need consistency and quality and we need it permanently.
It’s all well and good bringing in short term loans to boost your team but it’s not the answer. We need quality players, playing together week in, week out who know how the system works and are focussed on raising standards. We had the makings of a very good team at the beginning of last summer we failed to capitalise.
If you don’t prepare for success, prepare to fail.
Since the beginning of last Summer we needed to replace quantity with quality. Since then four first team players have gone out and we have brought fourteen players in.
The recruitment is a mess. We need to stop the wheeler dealers in the transfer market and start building, training, coaching and playing a regular first team squad…
…that’s priority, not the p&l, not the money in the bank. Now, if we can get a quality, consistent first team squad, competing at a level Celtic should be competing at, then by all means start bringing in prospects and stuffing money in the Bank.
But until then, build a Celtic team worthy of the name.
16 ROADS. @ 11:47 PM,
Implying.
Insinuating.
Accusing.
I won’t be responding to your posts.
Reason being that past experience has taught me that my words would, most probably be deliberately misconstrued.
The John Sweeney like pack of attack dogs primed and ready to pounce.
I shall however continue to challenge the narrative, with the truth
You shall continue with the truth, although you won’t tell us what that truth is..!?
Implying, Insinuating, Accusing…
I did none of those.
Let’s see if we can get some truth here.
You suggested that the BBC were at it by not showing an image of a serial killer…
SFTB pointed out, quite correctly to my mind, that the point of the piece was to show images of his victims, drawings the FBI released as many of his victims have not been identified, they are trying to find out who they are.
There was absolutely no need to show the image of an American serial killer who is incarcerated and will spend the rest of his days in Prison in America.
Now, SFTBs states that he clicked on a link on the BBC site, that took him to an photo of the killer and his race was obvious. Well to me his race isn’t obvious at all, yet I could See why SFTBs made that mistake.
Out of all the images of the Killer on Google the BBC chose to show one of him in the shadows, possibly in a court room. Now in that particular photo he looks black.
You have to ask yourself why the BBC choose a photo where he looks black. It could be sinister or it could be because it shows a certain pathos, who knows.
The fact is though, it doesn’t fit in with your truth…
Hail Hail
Ok..a wee diversion from talking about last nights sore yin…looking for a definitive list of negative nicknames we have for Scottish clubs…I’ll start with
Killmasonic
St Midden
50 shades of green on 15th February 2019 8:55 am
Not buying the ” Broonie is finished at this level “, he was poor first half last night, better in the second, but finished,,,NA
YNWA
………………………..
In my Opinion he is not Good enough for Europe – any format, now – his first touch is very poor compared to the only comparison Callum.
Scotland he can be a Top dawg but isnae taking us forward. I expected a 1 year contract extension.
He is a Celtic Legend.
He is IMO, stunting the Growth of fellow Midfielders noo.
Too many touches.
Started brightly, moved to two touch.
Lost confidence, reverted to safe(ish) square passes.
No movement off the ball, subbutteo positions, eventually 3 and 4 touches per man.
All the while València were compact, had movement off the ball, one touch control for a team mate to take up the move and had a No. 10 Parejo, who casually dominated.( He went off at halftime as it was already job done) .
Seen the movie before but we are capable of better teamwork and movement e.g. St Johnstone 6-0 away, but it requires belief, confidence and positive movement.
Eurochamps67
My friends in Celtic,
After a nights sleep, feeling worse about the game than last night.
Off the park we were first class. The fans played their part , an atmospheric full house to complement the fantastic light show showcasing our infrastructure. So far so good.
Then after a brisk start we collapsed. We reverted to type. Plenty of possession with sideways and backwards passing .
I recall mentioning a while back on here, not to be too critical of Scott Brown on his return if we then revert back to this frustrating game plan.
However SB was a weak link last night. A blind man could also see that Issy was dead on his feet.
Bottom line Celtic: Money has nothing to do with getting the basics right.
We did not get the basics right, we are not learning in Europe and this poor performance is totally attributal to the players, management team and coaches.
We are better than that, and we let ourselves down again.
I mentioned a few days ago that this game would be the acid test in determining our progress. Well the result is self explanatory.
HH, gutted but on to Kilmarnock.
Lets Win
@ Killie.
Sort it oot.
A CH coming through the Ranks would be so very much be like Something Rare and to be Treasured, thats why My Dad Loved JK so much – He watched all the Young ones when there was Celtic TV.
There is nae Word of a Great CH coming through either. :((
Karomoko
C’mon Celtic Reform this cesspit.
European football has for many years been weighted in favour of the big leagues. Valencia are in debt yet they manage to bring on a substitute who cost more than Celtic who are well run actually have in the bank. This can’t be the way forward for football. Clubs must be taken to task and become accountable for the manner in which they are run. The whole game at that level is run by spivs and cheats. There is no advantage for clubs who are run prudently as we know only too well in this country. The game corrupt to the core.
Greenpinata,
By Products of reaching Euro Finals?
Who knows?
Who really knows.
gra machree.
Love always Wins.
CELTIC
CELTIC
CELTIC
CELTIC
St Valentines Day and I never seen mair Ladies @ Celtic Park.
First goal.
Callum loses the ball midway into their half. Broonie standing beside him feckless. Boyata already 5 yards into their half, Jozo and Izzy up in centre circle, Toljan overlapping down right wing.
Parejo gets the ball, 23 sprints from 10 yards in front of Boyata to 10 yards goal side. Toljan sees danger but is 30 yards out of position. Jozo sees danger but ambles back when he could easily have cut out the square pass. Izzy runs further inside away from only danger, the eventual goal score who only has to meander up left side unmolested to tap the ball into empty net.
Broonie and Calmac still in opposition half.
Now València movement off the ball and Parejo’s ability to play a perfectly weighted forward pass are excellent but each of our defensive 6 were culpable.
Eurochamps67
Well, what a mistake that was!
We have a Spanish lady who works in our office and I asked her if she met any Spaniards last night in town when she was leaving the office which she hadn’t.
Doing my usual pro-Celtic spiel, I started to go on about how Celtic have such good relations with so many Spanish clubs going back to Real and Valencia in the early sixties and more so Barcelona in recent years as well as Seville etc.
My ears got pinned back in the ensuing blast.
She supports Deportivo La Caruna as she is from Galicia and went into a rant about when DLC were neck and neck with Barcelona for their first ever title in the late eighties and, allegedly, paid Valencia a lot of money to beat DCL in the last game of the season which they did.
Not forgiven and not love lost between DCL and Barca/Valencia.
Good thing that my chosen career was not to be an international diplomat.
EC67,
Tchaikovsky,
I ain’t watched the game back yet, I will as I am daft that way.
We just need to win on Sunday – and win well – this is one of the Establishments hopeful wans.
Win Well Celtic and Win Good.
The first goal we conceded last night was similar to the goal we lost against AEK at home in the qualifiers. Midfielder losing the ball in the middle of their half and defensive players not being cohesive in positional sense.
McGregors co midfielders should have been alive to him possibly losing the ball and either fouled the guy winning the ball or the guy who was about to receive the through ball we did nothing other than try to play offside. The players accept these things without any argument. If I was Boyata I’d have given Simunovic and Izzy a doing. If I was McGregor I would be asking where my Captain was
EUROCHAMPS67 on 15TH FEBRUARY 2019 9:34 AM
First goal.
Callum loses the ball midway into their half. Broonie standing beside him feckless. Boyata already 5 yards into their half, Jozo and Izzy up in centre circle, Toljan overlapping down right wing.
And this is what every coach in Scotland knows…keep your shape , eventually ,celtic will push to many forward make one sloppy pass and you pounce,the only good thing is we can get away with it in Scotland ,to a greater extent ,been punished a few times mind.
Better teams expose our system more often than not .
Up the hoops
Losing the ball in midfield or just inside the opposition half is a given when your passing options are restricted .
Try chipping the ball forward to a target man who can nod the ball down to Sammy Wilson .
Mr. Teasy Weasy CSC.
A couple of thoughts on last night:
– Scott Brown has been a fantastic servant for the club and will continue to be so for the next two years (and quite possibly beyond in a different role). However, if you intend to play the ball across a back four and have a deep lying midfielder pick it up and start attacks, the deep lying midfielder needs to be comfortable on the ball. CalMac is, SB is not.
We ended up after around 30 mins or so dropping CalMac deep to assist in picking the ball up so it wasn’t channeled solely through SB- this resulted in 6 Celtic players taking up deep lying positions and being occupied by Valencia’s 2 strikers; the remaining 4 Celtic outfield players were easily covered off by Valencia’s defence and midfield.
– Our unwillingness to vary our style of play is killing us. Valencia evidently studied how we play and executed an effective game plan to nullify any threats. If we varied our play with a long ball in behind the full backs or up to Burke to compete, it would at least give Valencia something to think about and stretch the game. As it is, we are so wedded to our style of play that we are engaging in Kamikaze passing out from the back- e.g. think back to SB’s back pass that was almost intercepted, it stemmed from Bain playing him the ball on our 18 yard line with a Valencia player a yard or two behind him.
Overall, we are failing at this level. We have resources that should be invested in the team and we have a quality manager but he is unaware of, or unwilling to accept, his failing policy at this level.
I mentioned last night, that Lennon was able to beat Spartak home and away, draw and defeat Benfica and Barcelona, respectively, at home and suffered two one goal defeats away in the group stages of the UCL.
We need to become more pragmatic and compact, less possession-orientated and focus on counter-attacking football, utilising the pace of Sinclair, Edouard, Forrest, Burke, Weah etc.
MACJAY1 – the chip forward over the fairly high defensive line that Valencia occassionaly held was something me and the bhoy were going on about during the game.
There were opportunities to release Burke or Wee Jimmy with a ball over the top, but too often it was played in to their feet facing away from goal.
Brendan will continue to watch and learn.
On Wee Jimmy Forest – made great runs on three or four occassions against two or three defenders and left them floundering – we need to get him into the game more next week.
Big Eddie also looked to be giving them problems with direct running – just lacking match sharpness. Would play him on Sunday to get his sharpness back, then start him in Spain. Burke to come on in the second half instead of Weah, who looked a bit lost in space when he made his sub appearance.
If KT is back, it might give us more drive to get past the defender down the left too.
HH
BGFC
How long did it take for the fear to take hold on the park?
How long before the fear took hold in the dugout?
How long before the fear took hold in the support?
Poorly set up, over coached and no leadership on the park.
And yet we extend contracts, up wages and pay signing on fees.
For the record the GB were very poor last night.
They spent too much time with their crayons and not enough time practicing their singing.
Things were so bad that they started doing requests — even one from the NRA on 61 minutes.
Just what OE and TW were needing to get them into the game — not.
Big issue at the heart of our current problems — why are we playing loan players in front of our own players?
We start with OB as a lone CF leading the line.
This is not his natural or best position and it leaves OE on the bench losing out on match fitness.
We are teaching a loan player his game at the expense of our own players rehabilitation.
The 4 – 2 – 3 – 1 formation needs to be developed.
All the talk over the summer was that we could be going to 2 up front.
Things happen and plans are junked, however …
Now we have the players to play 2 up front but nothing happens.
If BR wants another go at top level football in the UK he really needs to up his game.
Better players and an improved squad will help but he needs to take of the L plates.
Another European schooling and another press conference afterwards where the manager talks about what we will learn.
No point learning and not applying it to future games Brendan, is there?
With the tactics employed by the manager in European games we are making it very easy for any decent team to watch us play hot potato at the back, allowing them to gradually push up, get a foothold in midfield and take advantage of the inevitable mistakes.
The tactics are extremely naive and Brendan needs to take a leaf out MON, Strachans and Lennons book and realise that trying to play so openly and start silky passing from the back is not what is going to get us results.
PSG average 3 goals a game in France last season and roughly the same again so far this season – yet last season in 2 games they put TWELVE past us. We had 4 or 5 players in Paris pressing PSG near their third of the pitch. PSG did not get lucky. If we played them again now the same thing would happen, or worse, if we employed the same tactics.
If we qualify again one such team may just hit double figures in a single game due to such naivety.
Home games we should be able to compete with Tier 2 sides likes we did under O’Neill, Strachan and Lennon but we are making it far too comfortable for them. Our wingers end up dropping deeper and deeper to try and collect the ball and are quickly surrounded.
The most frustrating thing of all is that we are a LOT better than we showed last night, at home to Anderlecht, at home to AEK Athens, Salzburg and in most of the away ties but tactical choices are effectively seeing us making things even harder for ourselves.
Lets remember the aim of the game and there are no prizes handed out for Bain, Boyata, and Izaguirre forming pretty little triangles and getting the ball to our wingers 5 minutes late, if at all.
HH
Another thing that rankles from last night — why did we not put on a third sub?
Again it looks like BR had the fear bad and thinking was beyond him after the second goal went in.
He had the 60 minute switch already in his head at half time — no thinking involved.
Our success rate in Europe (however small) will only improve when the quality of player does. Brendan is trying to get us playing a modern European game with inadequate resources . that is why , apart from odd flashes , we have made zero progress in European terms.
The step up from playing the St Johnstone’s of this world to playing Valencia was a step to far, we seem to lose our way in Europe these days concentration , slackness all creep into our play while our opponents gain confidence & take control even though they may not be such great shakes themselves
We beat ourselves last night
Last night’s match was a fair old disappointment.
I thought we started pretty well, and the game was shaping up to be a good contest between two well-matched teams. We repeatedly broke Valencia’s press and moved the ball quickly and effectively up the itch, creating a couple of decent opportunities in the process. But…
…Broonie and Christie were off their game, and as the first half progressed, we repeatedly lost the ball on the second or third pass, and accordingly couldn’t get our forwards into the match.
We lost two wholly avoidable goals, the sum of which seemed to be a kick in the stones to the confidence of the players collectively, and the second half played out with little to show.
Both goals were seeded in losing the ball in midfield in the opposition’s half. That’s a concern because we oughtn’t be losing goals in such circumstances. It’s almost a throwback to Ronny D.
Izzy was the fall guy both times. While we can girn at McGregor losing the ball fir the first, and Boyata being caught too late to close the receiver, Izzy was the line man at Simunovic’s back and broke the offside. Doh.
Similarly for the second goal, Broonie waves a handbag, and Boyata didn’t stop the cross, but Izzy was watching from behind as his man jogged 50 yards into the box to score from the very spot Izzy should have been defending.
It’s difficult to stay in the game against good opponents when your midfield repeatedly loses the ball, impossible when your defence is inadequate too. I can’t ‘blame’ Izzy, it’s what you might expect from a free transfer from the Saudi league, but it was disappointing nonetheless.
This was a tie that offered some prospects beforehand, and at the least, provided a yardstick to measure recent improvement. Unfortunately, the prospects for the tie today are grim, and the yardstick doesn’t lie.
Hurumph.
” My players got an education . The opposition gave us no space and not a second to think . They smothered us and pounced on our mistakes . Playing for an hour with 10 men made little difference to them . They made it impossible for us to play our game while we were forced to play theirs -that’s why they won ”
Marcelino -Manager of Valencia 19 9 2018 – after Valencia 0- Juventus 2 – CL Group H .
The first , second and last sentences of that quote could easily have been said by the losing team last night .