The potential scenario of a Scottish Premier League club going out of business, becoming an ex-club, has played out in several places since we discussed it last month. As a result, we have all had an opportunity to establish our views on the matter, what would and would not be an acceptable reaction by the league and SFA.
The first ‘insolvency event’ of a failing club is likely to be the appointment of an administrator to protect the company from immediate creditors. This would draw a 10 point penalty. The choice of the administrator for a football club could be a controversial subject, especially if some creditors stand to lose a considerable amount of money through any rushed deal. For example, although Rangers have a considerable potential liability to HMRC hanging over them, their creditors might feel that a period of administration stretching several years into the future would enable all debts to be paid in full, a position not all administrators would necessarily agree with.
It’s normal for directors to appoint an administrator prior to a creditor getting to court but if creditors don’t feel the appointment is likely to serve their best interests they can apply to appoint their own. These battles can get acrimonious.
In the days after an administrator is appointed the club may not be in a position to fulfil its fixtures. When Gretna’s administrator informed the Scottish Football League they could not guarantee they would be able to fulfil the following season’s fixtures the league relegated them two divisions, to the bottom rung of the league structure. This proved to be a temporary position before the administrator admitted defeat and folded the company. Precedent suggests we should look out for a double relegation if a club in administration has to tell the league they cannot fulfil fixtures.
There is no point waiting until a well-organised administrator presents a fait accompli to the league before we look for precedents and debate an appropriate response. For the integrity of the Scottish game, football fans need to be ready for this debate. Where possibly, colours should be pinned to the mast.
One outcome of the online debate in the last couple of days (thanks to untiring work of our friend Phil) is that Celtic were forced to consider this question. I sought and received assurances that they will not vote to admonish owners of an ex-football club with a paltry point penalty, allowing them to reform as though nothing happened the following season.
The question is still-hypothetical, so clubs are not in a position to comment officially yet, but we are in a healthier position for the debate and should encourage high profile supporters of other clubs to engage the debate as some from our own club have recently.
Fans Against Criminalisation are holding a pubic meeting on Saturday, 12 November, at Whitehill Secondary School, 280 Onslow Drive, Denniston, with Michael McMahon, MSP, among others, speaking. Try to make it along to support this important initiative before you are criminalised by a combination of stealth and apathy.
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it would be a delicious irony if Jelavic, this week boasting about his clubs 12 point gap, comes back from international duty to find the gap down to 2 points; that would be nice! :)
Like your expression “ex-football club”, Paul.
Any substance in the rumour that tomorrow could be THE day (a good day to try and bury bad news)?
James Forrest is Lennon says:
10 November, 2011 at 12:56
‘The fact the allegations include some of a personal nature – extra-martial affairs with other MSP’s – is enough, on its own, to bring her judgement and conduct into serious question and she should swing for that on its own’
Sounds like she’s being doing enough swinging already.
James Forrest.
Regards.
sixtaeseven says:
10 November, 2011 at 13:09
you stole ma line, that was just what I was thinking.
They’ve called a press conference for 11 but it will be a quiet affair.
;-)
Play
tongueincheekcsc
playfusbal4dguilders says:
10 November, 2011 at 13:13
It will be a quiet affair until 11:11
(hopefully)
;o)
Fortunes Favour Mibbes says:
10 November, 2011 at 12:45
As I said I just don’t think anyone foresaw the interest there would be in this matter.
Normally Justice Committee meetings attract very small audiences, and their business is boring to the point of tedium.
Salmond was bounced into this pre-election by the police and it looked a good photo op/PR op at the time. He didn’t think it through and his sure-handed reputation is on the line but by and large he has avoided too much damage by placating the church with gay marriage trade off.
The man who should be on the TV with this matter is of course MacAskill as Justice Secretary but he blotted his copy book with his praise of the CIS Cup Final “atmosphere”.
The SNP must be regretting “being seen to be doing something” about the so called “shame game”.
A switched on opposition would have made more of it, but they too fear the bigot vote if they are seen as too pro-RC.
Interesting times but the way I see it either Grahame sues or she is sacked.
sixtaeseven says:
10 November, 2011 at 13:09
Like your expression “ex-football club”, Paul.
Any substance in the rumour that tomorrow could be THE day (a good day to try and bury bad news)?
I guess, after all, all those patriotic huns will no doubt be flooding to their local centopaths (or more likely the lodge) for a dignified, sombre ceremony; though as far as the huns are concerned, that was last week at ibrox wasn’t it? :/
Like I said in my previous post, it just feels like there’s been far too many false dawns (or sunsets if you’re a hun :) ) for me to believe it’ll happen anytime soon. Still feels a long way from midnight to me.
I live in hope though!
Ratners FC have called a press conference?
The thing I cannot get my head around is that Rangers are fighting for there lives and it looks as though whatever the outcome it will only be the amount of permanent damage that is done to them that is in doubt.However,the fact that we are 12 points behind them in the league beggars belief and makes me extremely concerned about the running of our great club and it concerns me that we Celtic supporters are accepting our situation to meekly we do see lots of empty seats in Celtic Park and those supporters are voteing with there feet surely we should be asking the board many more questions than we are and also have a plan to keep confronting them with our poor situation and asking what are they doing to improve our situation.H.H.
This time, I refuse to celebrate before the deed is done. God knows we’ve been here 4 times already and every time it’s been a damp squib. I hate looking in my fridge to see the wee bottle of bubbly and the normal size bottle of bubbly waiting patiently to be popped open. 4 times already I’ve had them in my hands ready to be popped open.
Take your medicine but you aint getting better!!!1!!!1!!11!!eleven!!!!
Kittoch says:
10 November, 2011 at 13:16
Ratners FC have called a press conference?
Thats how rumours start.
p
Just flicking through the Celtic View there and I see Neil is saying that long-term absentees Scott Brown, Kelvin Wilson and Emilio Izaguirre are only around a fortnight away from returning to action.
Will be good to have more options with the heavy fixture list expecially having Izzy back.
Paul67
“One outcome of the online debate in the last couple of days (thanks to untiring work of our friend Phil) is that Celtic were forced to consider this question.”
CQN has been highlighting and discussing their Fiscal Fantasy for a number of years now. I would be very surprised if Celtic PLC
have only been considering the question for a few days. I think it has guided Celtics fiscal policy for a few years now….
FullMoon CSC
Be careful out there….
good to Jelly sayin all the wrong things
excellent, keep it comin
DownForSam – Craig Whyte’s club:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/2165153093_98d0fd4d33.jpg
(thumbsup)
Just heard from a good source, well connected, ehhh Kittoch is his name that Ratners FC have called a press conference.
Anybody else hear this?
The section of the blog (Christine The Bedhopper) I find most interesting, actually, is the part which alleges she has cast votes, and steered legislation, based on her prejudices. The fact she seconded a bill she didn’t believe in just because the Catholic Church had expressed a view in opposition is, to me … just insane.
That is deeply worrying to me.
The irony of Thomas Cook alluding to the fact that tickets to sporting events are over priced, can’t be lost on anyone who has travelled on any of their over priced European trips…. or indeed their equally overpriced match breaks at CP….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WTM: Inflated ticket prices ‘threaten sports travel’ – Thomas Cook
Nov 10, 2011 12:30PM GMT
Travel to sporting events is in danger of becoming so over-priced that games could end up with empty seats despite enjoying record TV viewing figures.
At a debate on the future of sports tourism, Thomas Cook Sport managing director Danny Talbot admitted the issue of price should serve as a wake-up call to the industry.
Speaking about what could happen over the next few years, he said: “You will see record TV viewing figures but chair fillers (cheap tickets sold locally). You could have that situation because actually going to the events has become more expensive.”
Tour operators blamed rights holders, who are the official ticket providers for sports events, as well as hoteliers for inflating prices.
Tui Travel sports division managing director Marc Bennett admitted: “If we are allowed to buy tickets effectively and well then customers will get a well-priced package.
“All roads lead to the rights holder and whether they are putting expensive prices in the market. The buck lies with the governing body.”
He predicted a “tipping point” at which customers will decide sports tours are too expensive, but insisted: “There are many affordable exciting sports experiences to be had.“
Former cricketer Allan Lamb, who runs his own sports tours business, said increasing prices were leading to DIY tours. “More people are putting together their packages and finding their own tickets.”
Both Tui and Thomas Cook said sports packages would remain popular as long as “everyone down the supply chain doesn’t go potty” by raising prices to unaffordable levels.
Talbot even predicted sports packages would replace main family holidays during the recession for some, while Bennett stressed the need for operators to add value by offering other experiences
re MWD’s survey
about 95% of the responses were from Celtic fans
would be good if we could hear some more from
other clubs
as per Paul’s article
Whens the next payment for jellyfish due? and what happens if they don’t pay it, do they send someone round to break whytes legs or his?
I’ve got a funny feeling that Rangers will announce that they have appointed an administrator on a
week day.
Emdy with me on that?
MWD
Mr X says:
10 November, 2011 at 13:21
Some international breaks can be good :-)
p
Big Nan says @ 13:15
Interesting. I’m maybe crediting them all with too much intelligence :)
Thanks for your thoughts. Grateful for your updates on this in the past.
James Forrest is Lennon – Do you think we could get the Bishops’ Conference to release a statement saying MSP’s should definitely not relocate themselves to Libya?
Bit of reverse psychology. (thumbsup)
MWD
MCR ?
and what’s the significance of a “week day” ?
oe Filippis Haircut says:
10 November, 2011 at 13:17
The thing I cannot get my head around is that Rangers are fighting for there lives and it looks as though whatever the outcome it will only be the amount of permanent damage that is done to them that is in doubt.However,the fact that we are 12 points behind them in the league beggars belief and makes me extremely concerned about the running of our great club and it concerns me that we Celtic supporters are accepting our situation to meekly we do see lots of empty seats in Celtic Park and those supporters are voteing with there feet surely we should be asking the board many more questions than we are and also have a plan to keep confronting them with our poor situation and asking what are they doing to improve our situation.H.H.
———————————————————————–
maybe this is the beginning of a new era, maybe its just the start..
the club will take notice of how we feel about the (possible) decisions that they make on our behalf, more power to the fhans means we can have a powerful voice in the club.
most importantly is, the club will now realise how much power the fhans actually have.
Re the cost of sporting events. From the Independent today a letter pointing out that the UK Government have purchased over 8000 tickets for various Olympic events. No doubt that more would have been purchased if everybody paid their taxes.
Beware dark patterns.
Regards
James Forrest @ 13:23
And the failure of the party to address his/her complaint.
It’s a very frightening prospect that these people could be running the country with free reign and under the guidance of Scotland’s rags.
MWD @ 13:24
Absolutely, timing is everything for them on this. End of the week, but not just before a match. I’my keeping my Saturday free just in case, for a Carslberg hangover.
@Peston
Robert Peston
James Murdoch doesn’t rule out closing the Sun. Quite extraordinary
15 minutes ago via web
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Top Corner
As it stands 80.1% of returns were from Celtic supporters.
Around 300 non Celtic supporters have replied so far.
I tried to establish the survey on Pie and Bovril. 6 people complained about it being SPAM (aye right) and it was pulled as was my registration.
MWD
Som mes que un club @ 13:33
Interesting. It’s not exciting me though. Dwindling circulations and his determination to maintain control of mainstream news here and in the States by the medium of TV will be at the front of his mind.
If I wanted to get a messge, opinion or even start a debate into the mainstream whilst avoiding making an official statement and avoid being accused of starting the ball rolling, I wonder how I would go about it….. hmmmm as Paul would say
posted this the other day
a re-post
division 3
all titles handed back
will being appropriate punnishment
sky give us eff all any way
increased revenue at the gates
lower ticket prices
champions league qualification
better and more chance for our own talent to develop
lower wages
our team isnae that good anyways
youth players wid be better
more competitive league
better national team
irish team too
MWD @ 13:34
Spam pie and bovril? Sack your caterer. Dermot knows a company that do an excellent dry roll with some kind of chicken meat in it.
Paul, I’m not assured by your assurances. When the absentee landlord, Mr Desmond tells us his view then I will believe it. As we all know despite only owning 23% of the company he has complete control. The board and Mr Lawell might have a view but it won’t matter a jot if DD does not share it. Mind you DD will need to attend celtic park to make his view known and we all know how unlikely that is
MWD
80.1% Celtic
300 non-Celtic ?
good effort !!
as they steadily hear of it, i am sure more will reply
thanks for the update