Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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Paddy McCourt’s Illicit Army (thumbsup)
Let the People Sing.
Hail Hail
booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…CFC board ……………geldings the lot
SNP…Covenanters ……………the mask has slipped
Paul67
Great article Paul
Mort
I wouldn’t expect that they will be specific even if they have a legal obligation.
The board of Celtic know full well, that having accepted the fine and chose not to appeal, that they have left the Celtic Support
in a vacuum of turmoil.
They have a bigger obligation to communicate and have dialogue with the ordinary supporter, let alone any shareholding legalities.
P67
hhhhmmmmm
interesting!
All we need now is someone to have an old file or two lying about our esteemed Government’s offices
hhplc
a lot of Celtic fans have called this right
Lawell and the board of directors are HAPPY with this decision
obviously the board and Celtic have excactly what we were fined by Uefa for – anybody think these will be released to us the fans?
we are getting attacked on all sides here – the mainstream media, the government the police and now the board of Celtic fc.
why the board of Celtic fc? – they have had a running battle with the Green Brigade and do not like them at all – at some stage the blame will be put on the GB, with Celtic fans blaming them and turning against one another
down the line the GB will be disbanded and the job the board couldnt do will be down by us the fans
Sandman Is Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:11
ernie lynch says:
13 December, 2011 at 11:23
The next step for the Board is to agree to a deal that will see the newco huns straight into the SPL.
=================================
Ernie, come on – you kown fine that the deal was done a month ago, at least. It’s put to bed an ready to implement.
Lawwell requesting ticket money was not ‘stickign it to the hun’ – it was done with knowledge aforethought; he knows what’s coming becasue all the discussions have been had.
All that remains now is goofball Whyte to close down the dinosaur operation and generate his new generation of raptors, with full Celtic PLC approval.
And
THIS:
http://i42.tinypic.com/23j36rq.jpg
someone asked ealrier – the banner is REAL; no photoshop job. Intact, exactly the way I found it. THOSE are their true colours (or white only, more to the point).
The so called response from Celtic is no suprise. As many of you have pointed out this has been a set up from start to finish.
The Board have allowed attack after attack on its support over the last year – from the cup final, to continual wrongful accusations of sectarianism and even racism. They stood by while the police have intimidated the support and allowed the utterly disgraceful comment about the police wanting to smash to green brigade go unchallenged.
They have watched as we have become criminalised and said nothing.
The only soul that those who run the club has only money in mind – the question for us all is – is this the end of Celtic?
Paul67,did you hear that Celtic are not appealing?thought you may have mentioned it…..
Paul67,
Very dissapointed in today’s leader, i thought you would have liked to comment on Lawells utter inept display as our CEO representing us, the Celtic family.
No appealing the Uefa fine, utterly disgusting and sickening by our board of charlatans.
They can whistle for anymore money out of me, i would rather go to any away game than fund this lot any more, the have shown utter contempt for us and hung us out to dry yet again.
I thought some sort of comments from yourself on thee most important matter affecting us now what have been apt.
gebhoy
I was only joking yesterday but… Is this the Celtic of the future?
Moonbeams WD. \o/ Kano 1000 Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. says:
12 December, 2011 at 12:34
Celticfc.net News
Celtic to wear Green and pink hopped jersey’s for the remainder of the season after bringing in a lodge of psychologists in an attempt to dampen the aggression and spirit of the players and the support.
It is believed wearing the colour pink will connect the players and the support with their feminine side although it has been stated there could be a monthly period when the pink and green hoops may not act as expected.
In the future the players may also be required to wear pink boots and marigold gloves if the Pink & Green hopped jersey’s do not have the required effect. A further suggestion has been dropped as it was silly and extreme as the carrying of pink feather dusters is outwith the rules of the game.
Supporters will be required to wear green and pink hooped scarves and the GB will be named the PG and its members will be provide with an official club song book detailing allowable songs to be sung at Celtic Park. Any song sung that is not on the list will see the PG members shot from sniper cover to be placed on the roof of the main stand. Songs on the list include ‘She’ll be coming round the mountain’ and ‘You canny through uer Granny aff a bus’.
MWD thinks this is a great idea and should go someway to appeasing those offended by Neil Lennon and Scott Brown… and you can append Celtic, Irish, Catholic and green onto this.
Vmhan, Kano 1000 – Supporting Lenny & the Green Brigada! says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:12
Just came back on and I’m astonished to see that our board have accepted this, what a bunch of cowards we have on the Celtic board.
The support have been penalised for singing songs but we don’t know what songs are considered illicit? well tell us and we can debate it, in this instance the board are acting on behalf of scotlands shame, they have brought us to the level of the orcs from across the water, damaged our reputation for singing unknown songs, refused to appeal when IMO an appeal would have been successful.
CFC board another part of Scotlands shame, how many Celtic supporters do we have on the board? not many I’d say.
I won’t be supporting anything that comes from the CFC board until we’re rid of these quislings.
V
HH
Spearman says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:02
That is a truly tragic story. Sorry you feel like that. please don’t give up on the Club…. a few eejits braying on about how Irish they are (despite probably having never even been to Ireland) should not lead to you having to take your support elsewhere. Please don’t let public opinion (ie the white trash orange underclass) stop you following the Team you have always supported.
As for your daughter – a grown up – starting to follow (a) the English premiership and (b) Man utd………….. WTF??
Man Utd is not a football club, it is a tourist attraction. (mainly popular with folk from countries with no football of their own…. scandinavia, thailand, ireland, new zealand, australia etc….)
Paul67
There was a bit of debate as to who you were getting at with the previous article. Personally I’m not sure as each time I read it I could not decide whether you meant those external to our club or the support?
MWD
Wow.
Homework done, nice one Paul. Wonder if it is a SQL or Oracle Database, seems SQL might stand for Scotland Quells Liberty.
Happy Tuesday all.
You can always communicate your views to the club: tictalk@celticfc.co.uk
The Hibernification of Glasgow Celtic takes another huge step.
Celtic, the all inclusive club for those who toe the party line !!!
The PLC have made their position perfectly clear,
to lay a section of our supports heads on the block is unforgivable,
and effects not just those they choose to ostracise but the support as a whole.
Without clarification of what was and what will be deemed illicit,
the board have handed our detractors the bat to beat on our club.
If the songs we sing ARE NOT BIGOTED, ARE NOT HATE MONGERING, and ARE NOT SECTARIAN,
how are we supposed to know what is perceived as wrong?
To give vague reference’s to PIRA is not enough,
no word is automatically offensive and thus wrong,
it is not the word, or in our case acronym, but the context in which it is used.
I would always be against the clubs stance on this matter,
but would at-least find it understandable if there was consistency in its application.
To feed our support to the dogs while continuing to accept the orc celebration,
of being up to their knees in our blood and the defamation of our clubs legends,
to give just two examples of their racist hate filled bile,
is both disgusting and spineless.
The support IS Glasgow Celtic, the PLC are just the Guardians.
As guardians it is their responsibility to protect the ethos of our club,
part of that ethos being to champion and protect social justice for ALL those who follow the club.
As guardians of our club they have failed us catastrophically on not just this matter but on many fronts.
I increasingly,and i know i am not alone, feel alienated from the club i love.
Ghuys, when will enough be enough ?
It is time for the club to come back to whom it belongs.
bournesouprecipe at 13:12
They have a bigger obligation to communicate and have dialogue with the ordinary supporter, let alone any shareholding legalities.
I agree completely. Here is a reason why the club should provide specific details on what is acceptable and what isn’t:
Summary Findings from the SPL investigation into the game against Hibs
It is not disputed that a small number of Celtic fans engaged in singing and chanting in support of the IRA. Such behaviour is unacceptable and unwelcome at SPL matches. It is noted that Celtic FC has condemned such activity publicly on many occasions (most recently by Chief Executive, Peter Lawwell and by Head Coach, Neil Lennon). It is important that such public condemnation should continue.
It has been established, through the above investigation, that Celtic FC took all reasonably practicable steps before, during and after the match (in consultation and conjunction with Strathclyde Police) to minimise the likelihood of Unacceptable Conduct occurring and, where it did occur, to assist in the identification and prosecution of offenders.
If Celtic are aware of what we were accused of (and now found guilty of) singing and don’t provide this list of songs or chants to the support, can they reasonably be expected to use the above line of defence again should we be cited for our behaviour in the future?
The ongoing work amongst the club, supporters and police to ensure that any Unacceptable Conduct is eradicated from Celtic Park is noted and is welcomed.
Mort
Funny old game is football.
As a support we have all know for years they, the establishment have hated us.
But I never thought I would see the day that our custodians did the establishments job for them.
Paul67 –
Cracking work. It astounded me when the SNP stated that the data had been “lost”. I’ve worked in IS/IT a long time and getting rid of data is difficult to do by accident – though there are gifted amateurs that manage it well enough.
What would be very interesting is if you could get your hands on even a small sample of data that could be redacted and released. I would hope that one of our MPs would be in a position to ask in parliament (the real one, not the Toytown one) why the Scottish Government are lieing to people over such a serious issue.
Where’s Julian Assange when you need him, eh?
Have we been told what the ‘illicit’ chant was yet?
If this information is not forthcoming then we can reasonably conclude that Celtic PLC are going to use this situation to remove the Green Brigade from Celtic Park.
or we might assume that it is for something which is entirely legally challengeable and the powers that be don’t want it challenged.
It really is simple – tell us what it was and the supporters can take it from there.
(As an aside I do find it ironic that we were never ever charged with this back in the day when Rebel songs were far more common among the Celtic support and at a time when the IRA were actually engaged in a campaign of violence against British rule in Ireland. The authorities seemed far less bothered by it. Of course it has nothing to do with ‘what-aboutery’)
If our Board were to reveal more about precisely what we did wrong then I would then be able to properly understand why they have accepted the verdict. But without that additional information the jury is most definitely out.
Jobo
While I thank you for your article, Paul67. And it is illuminating, I feel you would have better served CQN by commenting on our Board’s reaction to the fine.
I wonder if this illicit singing being reported was instigated by our own board, I’ve been thinking this may be the case from the very start, but always come back to thinking that it couldn’t be the case, as they wouldn’t do that to they’re own support/ cutomers/ shareholders.
Now I believe they have done so, this is politically motivated, just don’t sing about it, aye right!
backstabbing xyz’s
V
Welcome to Celtic Park
Teltt ewes!!!! I D again!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2NlXagj-l8
No time for any of them.
This is about the Celtic Support, and that includes Lenny.
brimmer ‘kano 1000’ says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:26
Spearman
‘Protestant and from a non-Irish background, don’t want to be a part of anyone Fenian army and not into the IRA?
I’m from that background. I sang pro IRA songs, I ran with the CSC. Young,foolish and into Celtic,that was me. I can safely say I know more rebel songs than my Catholic friends (and they will readily admit to that)
Things have changed.People change. Love for Celtic,never does.
You,my friend are totally missing the point.
brimmer
Add a ? there.
spearman
Ignore LuxCelt and piss off to Manchester.
Like I said, Celtic is in your blood. If an internet comment makes you want you to chuck that away, you were never a Celtic Supporter to start with…
RobertTressell – (As an aside I do find it ironic that we were never ever charged with this back in the day when Rebel songs were far more common among the Celtic support and at a time when the IRA were actually engaged in a campaign of violence against British rule in Ireland. The authorities seemed far less bothered by it. Of course it has nothing to do with ‘what-aboutery’)
Yes, free speech has taken a bit of a nosedive since then.
We have a generation of people now who feel they have some sort of right not to be “offended”, and like-minded, empty-headed politicians in the Scottish Parliament.
Of course, the accusation itself is proof of guilt, since one can never prove that one’s behaviour is not “offensive”.
That said, Neil Lennon did ask the supporters to stop with the IRA stuff, so it should stop.
Being a Celtic supporter =/= being an IRA supporter. (thumbsup)
LuxCelt says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:18
Thanks for that… as for the daughter… we live in Engerland now and her boys family are all Man Utd fans… so… But I’m trying to convert them to Celtic … with some success… … they are not into the pro IRA anti-England stuff though… funnily enough
Almost since the formation of the GB, our PLC have been out to get them for not being under their control. The decision not to appeal the fine suits this agenda and some ‘Celtic’ supporters as seen from some posts on here, are only too happy to stick the boot in. Can I ask those posters if they heard any illicit chanting before the formation of the GB? Are they sure it was members of the GB who are responsible for the ‘illicit’ chanting v Rennes? Anyway, job done, we are divided. The PLC are part of the establishment who some are complaining about being against us.
It won’t be a small minority Peter Lawwell unless you tell us unequivocally what we did wrong and why it is wrong. Did you – Peter Lawwell – go to last year’s Cup Final or watch it on the telly when hordes vomited bile on the Celtic Family and demographic? Why did you not support us then? How deafening was your silence how you and our great club let down generations of true Celtic folk
Outstanding post.We, as a support have been dependant on god bhoys from forums such as this,to contest the lies from Corrigan,McAskill,Nevin, MacLean etc.We have no leadership, therefore no credible voice.
I posted this a year ago.
Seems I was right about the board and their desire to get rid of the GB.
THE EXILED TIM says:
11 December, 2010 at 00:30
UTLR
The board are making the GB scapegoats,and yes I use that name specifically.
I have been taking an interest in the goings on,the huns are being very vocal,via their web site re sectarian singing,and many things are pointing to a clampdown.
Even the media are starting to talk about change.
Unfortunatly the GB,may be,in the mind of the suits,collateral damage,in the bigger picture,they can not be seen to be condeming the huns,untill they dispose of their own itch.
It is a sorry state of affairs.
Stand up to them,I only wish I was able to join you.
Only my opinion,I hope I am wrong.
HH
KTF
From last thread..
brimmer ‘kano 1000’ says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:07
Estadio
That statement, whilst funny. could be the best of the day.
If you are in court charged with singing ‘ooh a up the Ra’, how can they prove you were NOT singing about the Sun God?
This is the farcical level we are at, and you, Estadio, have it bang on.
brimmer
Mort
Agree.
The SPL findings when viewed in your post and in comparison to the mystery surrounding the UEFA decision, illustrate perfectly the vacuum in which the entire Celtic support are now placed ( and not just the singing section )
A majority felt UEFA would follow suit, I fear that Celtic do not have an individual(s) who can relay the decision, the reason for it, and why there was no appeal.
If they have, we are waiting to hear from them.