Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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Is it not maybe time that the Green Brigade got CLEVER ?
Try this for a Celtic anthem.
It will reflect ALL our support’s NATIONALISM & heritage.
Whaur hae ye been sae braw, lad?
Whaur hae ye been sae brankie-o?
Whaur hae ye been sae braw, lad?
Come ‘ye by Killiecrankie-o?
Chorus:
An’ ye had been whaur I hae been
Ye wadna been sae cantie-o
An’ ye had seen what I hae seen
On the braes o’ Killiecrankie-o
I fought at land, I fought at sea
At hame I fought my auntie-o
But I met the Devil and Dundee
On the braes o’ Killiecrankie-o
The bauld Pitcur fell in a furr
And Clavers gat a crankie-o
Or I had fed an Athol gled
On the braes o’ Killiecrankie-o
Oh fie, MacKay, What gart ye lie
I’ the brush ayont the brankie-o?
Ye’d better kiss’d King Willie’s loff
Than come tae Killiecrankie-o
It’s nae shame, it’s nae shame
It’s nae shame to shank ye-o
There’s sour slaes on Athol braes
An the de’ils at Killiecrankie-o.
Let them try to find offense with that.
There is more than one way of skinning a cat.
The Ghood…..
A really sensible post from you.
St Johnstone missing a number of ‘key’ players tonight due to injury
What’s the betting 90% of them make a miraculous recovery for Sunday?
Evening bhoys.
So it was “Ooh Ah up the Ra” that was deemed offensive!?
So we’re not even allowed to sing about our Greek winger now?!
flimsyexcusebyuefa.cfc
I thought we were praising an Egyptian deity! Watch out Osiris you are next
Starry,
Eddie Smith was just one cog in the wheel that was planned by Strathclyde police force. The UEFA delegate being a former Old Firm match commander.
HH
Well we know now, Smith had video evidence,we broke uefas rules and thats that.
Apoligies to Lawell.
Win the league, no mercy.
KTF Celtic 2 Udinese 0
The Ghood will prevail says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:37
They could have appealed the severity of the fine.I have yet to see any evidence visual or audio how much singing took place (if any at all)stiched up and our board accepted it.They will do anything to get at the GB
theres the evening up bill well under way – they have a charge from uefa we have a charge from uefa as well – 2 sides of the blah blah
they were made to look bad and instead of dealing and being seen to deal with their problems they go for the easy option and get us lumped in with them!!!
Scotland thinks that Uefa now thinks that their is very little scotland can do about this as it is now seen as an “old firm” problem
the reality is Uefa have fined us and is probably thinking i wish them 2 clubs would stop touting on each other!!!!
where else in the world has 2 clubs got on like 2 kids the way us and rangers have? its embarassing
back to the evening up bill – we can look forward to at least 100 years of evening up decisions on the pitch, happy days!!!
Actually still bemused that UEFA would even consider a fine for a brief chours of Oh ah! Have i missed something here or are fines usual for 1st offenses i thought a slap on the knuckles and don’t do it again were usually in order. Why would such a brief interjection into an otherwise exemplary display of supporting Celtic from the GB cause UEFA to issue a fine. Did the board know what song the charge was related to prior to UEFA’s decision and if not why the delay in letting us know. It all seems a bit similar to their hastily issued denial regarding the helping Rankers rumour.
If hun fans were to chant “Up the RA” (as in the sense GIUY), could they be done for illicits?
Or would it be OK because it would mean they were against that particular organisation?
Then again, how would a neutral UEFA observer guy know the difference?
Tongue in Cheek CSC
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:43
Scottish football is rotten to the core, the concept of conflict of interest doesn’t seem to apply!
It will make it all the sweeter when the orcs go to the wall and all their backers and protecters and lackeys will be crying into the rancid cornflakes..
HH
well at least celtic have specified that it is indeed “ooh ah up the ra” that caused the charge; well, that has indeed been stopped since the Rennes game so that should be the end of this whole sorry saga, right?
Somehow I’m doubtful….
Timjim
If the board, or PL in particular was determined to stick it to the GB, then why did they not simply disband section 111 at Celtic Park?
Evening bhoys, warm in the cave, but as ever hun free.
tamrabam
Sorry I have to disagree, imo the current board are spineless, the way they handled the bombs and bullits saga was a joke, an oportunity to solidify the club from top to bottom, they said nothing of any consequence.
They should have been screaming from the rooftops, they should have demanded that uefa/fifa sort it out as the authorities in scotland condone and encourage this type of behaviour, they just bent over.
They failed the club big time, and are presently on an appeasment track to satisfy the hun establishment who condone oo marches, who destroy, or attempt to destroy stats that show that scotland is a sectarian heaven for any hun lover.
Back to football…..
Predictions for Lenny’s attacking formation on Thu?
I would like to see Sammi leading the line for once with stokes in support. stokesy doesn’t have the pace to be the man up top so let’s switch them.
Fraser
Cha
Dan
Vic (a waste in defence but hey ho)
Chaz
Brown
Kayal
Ki
Forrest
Stokes
Sammi
Thoughts?
Excellent so we all know now what we can’t sing. Take that one song out of the repertoir and well be alright.
My backside. This will continue for as long as there are coppers that want to crush the green brigade, settle old refereeing scores oravenge the death of their bigoted football clubs. Buckle up it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
That of course assumes no Ledley otherwise I’d switch stokes for Forrest and put Ledley in left midfield.
Sammi for hero status!
Now we know.I have a video in the house,Wolfe Tones singing this song,filmed at Celtic Park,with the permission of our club.Speak up Lawwell.
Just going to put it on,will look out the window incase I am being watched,again.Slan
Ard Macha
Nicely done.
Ironically, since the charge was made the singing section upped the volume and the ‘Ooh Aah’ add on was removed instantly and hasn’t been heard since, ( there is still debate as to precisely whether or not the lyric was already altered before the charge was made ) many Celtic fans from near that area of the stadium maintain it was, and yes Samaras did play that night, and that’s the lyric I witnessed.
Celtic did not apparently challenge this, not much point some may say when you’ve previously ‘owned up’ and said political references were to stop.
Not only that, “the charge’ galvanised the Celtic support to the extent that we now have a Jock Stein (Celtic End) singing section in full rapport, and unison with section 111, where most singing emanates.
Wonder what the percentage of all the CQN occasional posters, board bashers, and “I’m not going back evers” – were last, actually at a game, or actively supported Celtic in other ways aside from sabre rattling, or bumping their gums on their keyboards.
The atmosphere and backing on Saturday despite the loss of many ‘glory hunters’ from recent seasons was excellent, perhaps this latest development will see a decline again, maybe we’ll be fewer in number (for a while) but none the less a rock solid Celtic support still singing, minus the offending identified add on.
That’s the best we can hope for in the meantime.
Sorry for the late reply
fanadpatriot says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:33
SilverCity
Rubbish.
Quite possibly but that’s hardly a reasoned argument. The extra money might just find its way into DD’s pocket.
hamiltontim says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:53
Timjim
If the board, or PL in particular was determined to stick it to the GB, then why did they not simply disband section 111 at Celtic Park?
————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Because i believe that if the board actook any form of punitive action against the GB a huge number of SB holders would refuse to renew their books.
antrimkev says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:11
Oh dear.
There is a precedant UEFA have set that they will find completely and totally impossible to apply across football.
A small part of a ground filled with 40,000 people chanted 5 words. 5 words none of which were directed towards an individual or any other creed, religion or race of people, yet this fell under Article 11 – 2 e).
If Celtic are accepting this – then I would like to see CCTV being installed and put up covering all of the away end in as much detail as the police have taken towards to GB – that is ofcourse something I dont expect to happen.
However what I would like to see, is UEFA start fining every other club whereby a small minority of people within a crowd chant anything which is equally or more illicit.
Because I am telling you – dozens and dozens of clubs in Europe would get carpetted.
I see the club have eventually came out with a statement and specifically its oh ah up the ra which is the illicit chant.
I’m very happy to inform you that the Green Brigade have binned those words for “ooh ahh up the Celts”, such a minor little thing that should have been thrown out by Uefa and certainly contested by the club, alas now we’re classed alongside the huns, who have tarnished scotlands reputation thoughout Europe for decades with they’re sectarian bile..
ps although the GB have altered the words I did hear a few Celtic fans in other parts of the ground singing the original words, its they’re right to sing what they like of course, but I’d prefer it was left outside the ground, for the good of the collective Celtic family.
V
HH
hamiltontim says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:5
Disband section 111 what do you mean close it???
Not wanting to prolong the debate but has anyone thought of sending a copy of the Celtic Symphony lyrics to UEFA and asking them to review their decision?
This only applies if the whole song was being sung of course and not ‘ooh ah’ on its own.
bournesouprecipe says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:57
Totally agree with your last paragraph.
The Celtic support somehow, manage to churn out Firsts after Firsts, year after year.
The latest with the GB deciding who they are going to point and sing is absolutely… amazing isnt the right word I cant for the life of me think of it – but who the hell would or could have thought up that one!?
Would someone help me out with the friggiong word please….!?
Vmhan, Kano 1000 – Supporting Lenny & the Green Brigada! says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:19
Like you I could guess but what if the new match commander takes a dislike to the fields of athenry or the Irish national army…
With respect we need CFC to communicate what songs or part of songs are to be dropped, anything else is you’re guess or mine.
__________________________________________________
Your first point about the match commander is well made and spot on.
The second point is, I think, irrelevant. No-one knows what’s ‘offensive’. It will be down to the whim of individual policemen and their criteria could change from minute to minute.
That’s the beauty of it for the police and the SNP – a law that won’t know we’re breaking.
Why wasn’t the statement regards which song it was that got us the fine, put out along with the earlier news that the club wouldn’t appeal the UEFA charge?
Looks to me as though the club have been made aware of the majority of the fans reaction, hence the evening press release
Nothing has changed my mind about this collection of cowards
Sack the Board
Bourne I wonder if it’ll still be allright to sing “ef you rankers we’re gonnae win the league” :¬)
ESPN – The Hoops from Yeovil town V Fleetwood which is my local team………… Fleetwood 1-0.
V
It’s my legal right to smoke in my own home! I haven’t done such since the days I used to stand in the Jungle or on the CSC bus on the way there/home. It might harm the one I love, but f@$k it, it’s my right isn’t it?!!
Can’t you see…this is not a issue of legality, hence no action from SFA/SPL. Anything deemed to be political by UEFA or FIFA is proscribed..simple (remember the fuss about England poppies before the recent friendly)?
My iPod is chock full of “rebel” tunes that would be perceived as offensive to some,although that’s NOT the issue here!
In my eyes the GB have been a breath of fresh air, although inevitably they’ve attracted their fair share of pseudo-intellectuals and daft weans who want to be part of the “gang”.
Depressing to read “Celtic” “Fine” “IRA” all over Europe today! This is damaging our club, whether you like it or not!
We should be talking about hunting the hun down like the dogs that they are! Winning against Udinese on Thursday too!
Some of you clowns need to have a look at yourselves!
I think it is fair to say that our improved behaviour has not helped us over the years. Whether it is idiots throwing glass bottles of Vodka , plastic bottles of water, patting Dida or singing songs that are deemed illicit …deary me ….we will never stand up. Part of the well cultivated down trodden defiant the world is against us a chip on both shoulders guaranteed cannon fodder. Our improvement , I would call it natural
evolution has not helped us due to being ensconced in a country that hated us even more for taking the civilised path.
If the financially prudent path we have massively contributed to also proves to have been a waste of time due to Scotland being unable to accept the hun demise akin to the way they have reacted to the threat that has been placed on their sectarian culture … and we don’t stand up to it, then I will have to walk away.
The taste of medieval bear baiting would be all to palpable.
Why would anyone trust our custodians ?
They are ineffectual and don’t represent me or my ideals.
We find out if they are Old Firm custodians in a few weeks from now.
So hold fire and support Lenny and the Bhoys preferably only at home and away in Europe.
HH
Eyes Wide Open says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:59
and im telling you it will not happen
Uefa love us and rangers touting on each other
why?
they get to be seen doing something, handing out fines for illicit chanting, while not upsetting the big countrys – win win for them.
the worst thing is we started all this nonsense
unfortunatley for us they have the media, top jobs in the peelers and top jobs in government – by the time they finish with us we will look like bigoted b*stards!!!
Cognitive Dissonance – #229
oglach
It’s hypothetical but I’m unconvinced this would have been the case during the close season. Yes there is a ground swell behind the GB but even now it is impossible to quantify how many would follow up on a promise to ‘never return’.
Look at this nonsense…
http://doublestandards.bplaced.net/
What kind of existence does this creature have??
On the 28th, let’s hear a resounding chorus of:
Ooh Aah PAY YER TAX !!!
The match commander could pass that one on to UEFA, with a FULL explanation of what it means…
SFTB
Someone posted UEFA’s rules earlier
I cannot remember them verbatim but my feeling was it would be a hard job arguing that the provocative element did not apply.
Celtic, unlike the support, have to work within the rules and no amount of emotion can change this. So I’m with you, what exactly do UEFA rules forbid and did we do anything to cross them (we must have done something) and if we did what is the counter argument?
The huns never expected to get done by UEFA for TBBs but they eventually did because UEFA have much wider borders and audiences to consider.
Some Celtic stuff has now fallen foul of the wider UEFA remit, sometimes the world works for yourimmediate interests,sometimes against, but in my experience, if you wait long enough, it all works for the best.
Auldheid,
Just back in and catching up with developments.
I agree that chanting IRA, referencing Orange barstewards, and sundry other offences can fall foul of both UEFA’s regulations and the new SNP bill on football-related bigotry. However, our songbook has been referred to UEFA before. That nice Mr. Carson of the Scottish Sun was one of only a few bluenose-minded journos to attempt to get Uefa to respond to their cries of “But what about rae fenians?”. In all previous references, UEFA has decided not to punish Celtic because they were convinced that our songs were “political” and not discriminatory. Now, we are being found guilty because our songs are “political”.
Now nothing has changed. UEFA regulations are as they were and our songbook remains as it was. My only conclusion is that it suited all parties this time to reach a guilty verdict as an attempt to quieten the GB and others. The police wanted an easy victory over the GB. The Board were happy to get less hassle from the police and SFA/SPL by sacrificing a section of the support which they feel is openly rebelling against them. And UEFA said, “sure if it helps we’ll give you a small fine, so you can warn and intimidate your fans. It’s win:win now please stop bothering us”
Your suggestion, Auldheid, seems to imply that, if we take our small hit, UEFA will follow up with a big hit against der Hun (your “if you wait long enough” comment). I see no signs that there is any such plan.
I see few signs that any clear detail of the backdoor deal between Celtic plc, the polis, and UEFA will ever be made clear.
Trying to determine the parameters of acceptable/unacceptable is a 20 questions guessing game. The Board have announced that “ooh ah Up the Ra” was the phrase that landed us in it this time. What they are carefulnot to say is that this the only potentially punishable utterance in our songbook. Does anyone genuinely believe that dropping this puts us in the clear and facing no further demands?
If anyone does believe this, there is a squinty bridge in Glasgow that I am prepared to sell to you at a bargain price.