Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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Excellent articule Paul!
The government in Scotland cannot be allowed to destroy data which does not suit its agenda.
I always felt the government, establishment, media, etc have always wanted to portray sectarianism in Scotland as a football thing, an ´Old Firm´ thing, rather than admitting it has an anti Irish and anti catholic problem.
Is there anything we can do? Write to our MPs?
bournesouprecipe says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:39
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/a-league/cole-fined-after-diving-confession-20111212-1orh9.html
The funniest thing for me while watching that game was seeing Cole with his tongue firmly in his cheek (literally) as he got up and scampered back into position while ostentatiously making sure he did not make eye contact with the ref or otherwise act in an aggrieved fashion.
Sally McCoist should get a dvd of that game so that his men can hone their acting skills. The “Dying Swan” performance should fool no ref in this day and age.
SSN now reporting it as “pro IRA chanting” , where did I /we sign up to accepting this?Was this the charge? What was the song?
I’m pretty sure this is an illicit song in terms of UEFA’s rules.
Lawwell has allowed this to be played over the Tannoy at Celtic Park.
Should he be sacked?
Let the People sing
For those who are in love
There’s a song that’s warm and tender.
For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest.
So liberate your minds
And give your soul expression.
Open up your hearts,
I’ll sing for you this song.
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
It was back in ancient times,
The bard would tell his stories
Of the heroes, of the villain,
Of the chieftains in the glen.
Through Elizabethian time
And Cromwellian war and fury
Put our pipers to the sword,
Killed our harpers and our bards.
Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
Ireland, land of song,
Your music lives forever
In its valleys, in its mountains,
In its hills and in its glens.
Our music did survive
Through famine and oppression.
To the generations gone,
I’ll sing for you this song.
‘disciplinary measures may be taken against…clubs in case of (sic) inappropriate behaviour on the part of their supporters, including:
…….
(d) the use of … words, … to transmit any message that is not fit for a sports event, in particular if it is of a political….nature’
The original fenians were stuffed full of Protestants, many of them founding members of the IRB (that’s not a typo for those not in the know….)
If you know your history………………..
And Philvis – I agree, free speech has indeed taken a hammering. Although as usual I suspect we are coming at that conclusion from different angles…..
Just as we agree that the European Union ain’t great – for different reasons………
My enemies enemy is my friend? Nah, let’s not stretch it too much!
Totally sickened by the shameful and spineless behaviour of the Celtic board, as well as the apologist nonsense being spouted on here.
Oh…and unlucky timing of the new article, Paul. If only you’d known the non-appeal decision was about to break, then you could have encouraged debate on the real Celtic-related news of the day. I’m sure the board would have thanked you for providing an ideal platform for them to receive valuable customer feedback, on their corporate decision-making………….
The Huns were linked with Graeme Dorrans last week – in some sort of exchange with Jellylegs.
Looks like a done deal – Dorrans was booked for simulation at the weekend.
RTE text news also reporting it as ‘Pro IRA songs’ I’d expect nothing else from those West Brits.
BB ask the clowns on the board.
off topic, for any Celts who were at the hertz game and never checked you’re Paradise windfall tickets (e.g. GL2 who would probably been down at the pie stall :¬) ), the £15,000 has not yet been claimed!
Celtic v Hearts, Saturday, December 10
1st E2140
2nd A3516
3rd F2343
4th P3246
5th B1059
V
Just give us a list.
What on earth is so hard about that?
Just give us the list of illicit songs and chants.
What’s the problem with that?
How can anyone conform to a set of rules if you don’t know what the rules are?
Ernie Lynch @ 14:07
has hit the nail on the head.
As soon as you sing a song like that, you are inviting all manners of free speech.
This will not do.
Magnus
Sone Aluko also probably paid for how own diving lessons.
I’ve posted it before, but sadly I’m old enough to remember McCoist’s entire career as a player, and he
mastered the ‘collapsing legs’ routinely, when inside the penalty box.
It’s an Orc trait, they do it instead of Football.
Just a thought… Going to a football match and singing songs about football, and only football, cannot be construed as illicit. It is only by introducing politics or religion into the mix that those songs begin to transcend what is deemed socially palatable.
Desist from singing songs with political and/or religious undertones and we cannot be criticised, or penalised. Continue to do so and we will be hurting the very club that we claim to support.
It’s not as though we are short of great players or great triumphs in our long and great history, so let’s sing about those. Keep the politics for political debates & rallies and sing religious songs in church.
If you truly love Celtic Football Club you will do the right thing.
Paul67 says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:56
Fair enough comments. However it is no good if a fairly prominent Celtic Blogger has a ‘fair idea’ of what it is about! The simple thing is that the club need to spell it out to the supporters – what was the illicit chant/ song? Then, as I have said, the support can take it from there.
There is no other issue at this time. We must be told what chant or song got us in to bother. Why have they not done so? We have a European away game on Thursday. The spotlight will be on our fans, the UEFA observer will be fully briefed. Yet no mention of what we shouldn’t be heard singing.
If you wanted fans to get in trouble again then that would be a good way to go about it. Maybe the wrong conclusion but the club has to clear up any ambiguity ASAP.
Reading the blog now, I get the feeling that this is the moment those who want to chant for IRA have been waiting for. They seem to feel they have the support behind them. That is certainly not my position (and I hope that of the vast majority) but I do feel the Board has to tell us plainly why they will simply pay the fine. As has been said, Jock Stein tore into the fans (quite literally, I was there) who were doing it way back then. Let the Board tell us what we can’t chant or sing (and, if they don’t know, it is their responsibility to find out) and, hopefully, that will be the end of it.
Ernie.
I would honestly send that to PL and ask him.
You may wait a couple of decades for a reply though.
brimmer
I’m Neil Lennon (tamrabam) says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:13
The exiled Tim said
As a support we have all know for years they, the establishment have hated us. But I never thought I would see the day that our custodians did the establishments job for them
The old Board
I think over the years I have often thought that the Celtic Board were not behind us. Sometimes because their hands were tied and sometimes because they actually were a part of the establishment themselves.
I don’t think it’s new. In the 70s during the start of the troubles, the old Kelly/white board regularly placed notices in the Celtic View against singing Irish rebel songs, and folks from that era might remember when the Polis considered it fair game to confiscate an Irish tricolour.
Damned
Most folks who know me will be sure Im not a supporter of the current board, but in this instance I think the board were in the position of being “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” . A No win situation.
The Green Brigade
I personally like what the GB have did to the place, without them Im sure our crowds would be even lower as fans might desert the library atmosphere that was the norm before their efforts, personally I would like the GB section to be extended.
Standing room only
In recent weeks speculation has been rife about all standing sections of the park, we can reasonably expect the GB and similair would populate any standing sections. However PL and co must know that the GB element will be harder for him to police and “illicit” songs (whatever they are) might become more commonplace
Politics or
To the folks who say politics has no place at fitba, I say if enough fans decide it has a place then why shouldn’t it?
What If the Celtic fans had been shouting
“up the SNP” or
“vote for Labour” or
“if ye hate the Scottish tories, clap your hands”
does anyone think that the Polis/Uefa etc would be involved?
However try shouting Sinn Fein and see where that gets you.
Politics is tolerated at CP a long as its not ours because that is seen as dirty
share
With so called freinds like the board at Celtic who needs enemies. I see the old silly people who have probably never been to Ireland has raised its head again . So African, Asian and any other 2nd 3rd generations from around the world who live in Britain can celebrate the struggles of their peoples but not the Scots with Irish lineage. Do me a favour go support the Jags and gie me peace. Let the people sing. There are more important things than Celtic and football. Lawell should be ashamed of himself he has been imo one of the main culprits in labelling the Celtic family in a negative way.
ernie lynch
means aucht they want then
clearly plod had a wee look at this and waited for us to give them the slightest opportunity
where were plod were time after time the huns were contravening this article …nevermind breaking the law
one could only consider how the media would have reacted to such an attack on the huns
as for Smith……loathsome reptile …abusing his position …sadly endemic in plod
How odd that we sang the closing song from a film banned by Glasgow City Council for 20 years, yet this was not illicit, and yet singing a song about imagined graffiti gets you done.
wonder how the polis will deal with the hun misbehaviour on the 28th Dec
i some how think we might be back to the old logistical problems
Headtheball says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:11
No need for a list.
Any song that is of a political nature is illicit.
Something Inside So Strong is an anti apartheid song. It’s political and is therefore illicit.
ernie lynch
Rule Brittania, Gallows dirge, GSTQ, Sash
the match commander will be busy at the next hun game ….if he is so inclined
By the way,
We can’t sing JCGE either. It results in a unsafe atmosphere due to all the jumping around clowns do when you go to the ground.
We could sing the Fields again, but unfortunately, there are too many that find it offensive.
May I humbly suggest the one sing we might get away with. Admittedly, it will grow tiresome, but the sentiment will always be there..
My Way, by Frank.
Nothing else for it.
Although we would be betraying the sentiment of the song, at least it will keep the rest of Scotland happy….won’t it?? As long as we assure them it doesn’t relate to political singing of the past. Down with that sort of thing.
PFayr
Smith man speak with forked tongue!!
One of the first things that appeared on ff was. He’s one of their own so they cant complain. Ha Ha
PFayr
Probably the same way that Lothian and Borders police dealt
with the sectarian singing at Eater Road on Saturday.
Ernie Lynch – any truth in the rumour that Billy Bragg has been given a lifetime banning order from football grounds for political singing? I also heard Dick Gaughan is on the wanted list at Easter Road in case he starts up The Workers Song.
Other potential ‘illicits’ at the fitba:
Chumbawumba
Pete Seeger
Bruce Springsteen
Bob Dylan (although his re-education is almost complete)
The Dixie Chicks (rather nasty comment about George W Bush once in Shepherds Bush Empire!)
The Corries
Karine Polwart
Anyone singing any Rabbie Burns, particularly Scots Wa Hae
U2
PF
How did the Polis deal with the huns on Saturday?
Why has there been no mention of their songbook ay Hibs?
Fortunes Favour Mibbes says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:24
‘We could sing the Fields again’
No chance. It’s political in nature and therefore illicit.
This is a sad day for those of the 27 of us who took our case against the BBC all the way to the Trust Appeal stage.
And the hundreds of others who took it to BBC Editorial Complaints Unit level.
We were all incensed that McLean and Nevin could accuse us of sectarian singing when none could be heard, and then later, when the BBC said the offending sectarian song was the BOTOB we were angrier that this song could be re-classified as sectarian in what was seen to be part of the softening up process by the police and others to aid the passage of the new Offensive Behaviour at Football Matches Bill.
The establishment had contrived to play politics with us and we weren’t having it. And with passion and conviction and no little humour we debated it for hours on this and other sites and fought to protect the good name of the club we love.
For what? To have our own Directors agree with the very arguments that the BBC made against us.
Our Directors agree to Uefa’s fine even though:
No one heard it.
No one reported it in the press.
No one will say what it is.
No one will say if it is legal or illegal.
The only thing our Directors will tell us is that we must stop it.
Whatever it is that offends the ex-referee/police inspector or any of his brethren. Stop it.
Just stop whatever the policeman says you must stop.
There are no prizes for guessing what the BBC Trust will say about our complaints and who they will quote in support of their decision when it comes.
Morning all,
So Phil was right all along with his recent article.
I have no idea what the board are thinking but over the last few years, since the poppy was stitched onto the hoops, this board have willingly cow-tailed to the bigots and quiet frankly sold the support down the river. I have never been anti-board but today I am. Enough is enough. They are quislings, they have abandoned us.They can no longer be seen as the custodians of our club and heritage. What I dont understand is what do they think they will get in return for bending over…where’s the gain?
I got to be honest, lads, I would not live in Scotland…who is there to protect the average Celt, who is there to stand up against the bigots and rascists that infest the government, judiciary and police? As has been just revealed…dont expect Celtic PLC to be your haven.
Hail Hail
FFM
Frank Sinatra allegedly had links to the Mafia so
people may find the singing of My Way offensive.
Songs played over the tannoy are going to have to be reviewed now and that tricolour is a bit political too isn’t it?
seanbhoy
didn`t watch the hun game .,,,,
was the signing at their usual low standard
Fortunes Favour Mibbes –
Frank Sinatra – I Sing The Songs. (thumbsup)
ernie lynch @ 14:27
Unfair challenge, I made a similar point.
Are you using the context thing to make a point.
Lost here at the moment if that’s the case..
If I were to sing a song, in tribute to the debates you have had here on the singing at CP, being forced to quote the numerous huns who countered your arguments, there would be a lot of references to the phrase “IRA Chanting”, quickly followed by “What is IRA chanting”.
Could we get away with that if we explain the context?
Or if it was “some postings on a blog, it says we’re magic, we’re magic, some postings on a blog…”
Mmm.
Better stop it there I suppose.
Sorry bud, can’t even quote your fine arguments from the past as they are now…..illicit.
Perfectly acceptable songs to be sung at Parkhead in the future.
I do like to be beside the seaside.
Happiness happiness by doddy.
You tak the high road.
Congratulations.
Merry Xmas.
Theres a hole in my bucket.
Where is the proof????
Convicted without proof and not a whimper from the board – unbelievable!