Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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They tried to bomb and kill our manager last season. He was physically attacked live on TV (but actually he wasn’t – we imagined it). The media pushed the story that he brought it all on himself. Now, we have a political agenda against us with a compliant police force doing its bit.
This is a concerted campaign and will not stop. Funny that the other lot are hanging on for life right now. Is it just all a coincidence I wonder?
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:20
Spearman says:
I meant to replace the “illicit” ooh ahh up the RA…. in Celtic Symphony
Remember where you heard it first :-)
Spearman
I think “Dearbhófar do lá teacht!” would be more appropriate
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire
Let me start off by saying that I do, genuinely, enjoy reading your posts. Your passion and committment for Celtic is unquestionable however…
As far as I am aware you are not: –
a member of the board
a relative of a member of the board
a close personal friend of a member of the board
a confidant of a member of the board
the teaboy for the members of the board or even
a fly on the wall of teh boardroom of the members of the board.
So… my question to you is…
HOW THE HECK DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE BOARD ARE DOING ABOUT THIS???
And if you say you DO know then you can bet your bottom dollar that the Laptop Loyalist do to.
Which means there will be more DISINFORMATION than information getting out the boardroom…
As Phil Mac found out recently too!
good afternoon cqn
listened to R C last night again seanbhoy69 articulate and correct,keevins putting the boot into celtic,others because they have agendas against Celtic,do it because of their back ground,he has no such excuse.
Was at game on Saturday,really enjoyed it being with friends,and among the Celtic family
Do not go that often as i should,family etc,
H H
As far as I know the Strathclyde polis met with huns supporters groups and told them what songs they would allow and which ones were illegal.
I think orange athems such as the “sash” and “surrender and you die die die!” were cleared by plod as being ok football songs . The bb’s and a couple of other were not to be sung.
Anyway – why does the plod have song-meetings with the huns but refuse to do the same with us??
Gotta go all.. bye for now
btw ‘Tosh’!
theres a word form a posh country bumpkin if ever there was one!
Spearman says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:25
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:20
Spearman says:
I meant to replace the “illicit” ooh ahh up the RA…. in Celtic Symphony
Remember where you heard it first :-)
The problem with that song is it has a rousing middle section that gets most of the stadium going before fading away leaving a higher proportion of RA singers going for the last line. If something both leagal and defiant can be inserted, fair play.
STV……..
Rangers FC owner Craig Whyte appeared in court over an alleged unpaid £90,000 repair bill at his castle.
Mr Whyte, who is in charge of Tixway UK Ltd, ordered supplies from One Stop Roofing to repair his property in Grantown on Spey.
In a court action raised by One Stop Roofing, it claims Tixway failed to maintain a repayment plan agreed at the start of the 2010.
Majority shareholder at Ibrox, Mr Whyte, contests the claims and appeared to give evidence in the civil case at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Tuesdya.
He told the court he was introduced to the owner and director of One Stop Roofing, Robert Jenkins, in April 2008 through a friend and businessman Chris Keating.
The court was told Whyte helped Mr Keating’s own business by lending money when it was required and Mr Keating regularly bought supplies from the roofing firm.
Mr Whyte, 39, told the court the only orders made by him and that he was invoiced for by One Stop Roofing were for the repairs he was carrying out to his home, Castle Grant.
He told the court he did not agree for invoices for Mr Keating’s business to be sent to him or paid by him. Mr Whyte also told the hearing he only met Mr Jenkins on one or two occasions.
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:00
UEFA’s rules prohibit anything of a political nature so The Fields of Athenrye is not acceptable.
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:34
Replace “Ooh Ahh up the RA” with “Ohh Ahh Tiocfaidh ár lá” in Celtic Symphony…both leagal and defiant?
Spearman says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:39
TAL is a political slogan.
So it’s not permitted in terms of Aeticle 11 of the UEFA Regulations.
Spearman says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:39
Great idea…. but it wouldn’t solve the problem that you personally claim to face would it? You would still be accused of being some kind of IRA sympathiser… no?
Celtic manager Neil Lennon is planning to adopt an attack-minded approach to Thursday’s Europa League match against Udinese.
The Glasgow side must win their final group game in Italy in order to progress to the knock-out stages.
“I think we can set up to be a bit more adventurous with our own approach,” Lennon told the Celtic website.
“The pressure is off and the players can go and hopefully express themselves and do the club justice.”
Celtic are vying with Udinese to join Atletico Madrid in the next round, although all results from Group I will be subject to the outcome of a Sport of Arbitration for Sport ruling on Sion’s appeal to be reinstated in the competition.
Victory for Celtic in Italy – where they have never won before – would mean they would leapfrog Udinese by virtue of their head-to-head meetings, given their previous meeting in Glasgow ended in a 1-1 draw.
Lennon’s team are on a good run of form in the Scottish Premier League, winning their last six games.
However, the Celtic manager knows that the Italian outfit will likely prove a sterner test.
“We have to be very respectful of the opposition,” said Lennon, who picked out Samir Handanovic as the star man for the second-placed side in Serie A.
“They are very strong in midfield. They have great strength, athleticism and quality – and counter-attack very quickly.
“Added to that, they have a brilliant goalkeeper. I think he is one of the best in the world.
“I remember him from the last World Cup for Slovenia.
“He was fantastic and he pulled off three or four unbelievable saves here in the home game.
“He gives a great foundation for them to build on. And, with people like Antonio Di Natale in the team, there’s always a goal threat at the other end.
“They are very well-organised but skilful into the bargain.”
Paul67 says:
13 December, 2011 at 13:56
Gebhoy, blogging on the move today, only read about the announcement from Celtic below this article.
I had zero expectation of Celtic appealing this, would be amazed if many thought otherwise. When it comes to IRA referenced chanting, which I believe it was, the message is unlikely to be fudged.
Unfortunately, we have been boxed into this corner. I can’t see any clean way out of it as I don’t expect the chanting to completely stop, Celtic (correctly) cannot condone or defend any reference to the IRA (including ‘the ra’) and those wanting to have a pop at us have patience to wait on it happening again.
My expectation is this will be messy for years and I don’t see any way out of it. Copy and paste your arguments, you’ll be able to use them hundreds move times.
Bigger picture is what is happening in Scotland with the criminalisation of currently legal chanting and how it will be subverted alongside hate crimes.
Off out again, alas.
————————————————————————————————————————–
Paul,
Everything you say makes absolute sense, but and it is a massive but what was the IRA chanting, was it the “oo aa up the ra” add on, is it BOTOB? We dont know and thats the problem.
Can we now be reported because someone, take it the Strathsnyde Police’s match commander takes offence at this song (BOTOB), what about Aiden MacAnespie, could this offend someone?
The club may have decided not to appeal the fine, but they could make more of the process that has led us hear, the political police’s part of it and the complete lack of transparency of the whole affair, the club surely cannot think that the matter rests here?
And where does that leave the support do you think we will stand and take the boards washing there hands of us, not one word of support or defence has came from the boardroom at Celtic Park on this matter, Lawell can say these songs/add ons are not wanted and you may find the majority of the support if not all willing to give them up, but what about the other Irish ballads, are they next?, i don’t expect Lawell to try to defend the singing of these add ons, but i would expect more of the board in general on this issue.
They should at least define what songs are unacceptable in their eyes and let us make our mind up.
As for the new bill, i posted at least 6 months ago this was the most dangerous piece of legislation to be passed into law in a generation, make no mistake it will now be up to some no mark plod to decide whether you are being offensive and you could end up with a sectarian breach of the peace charge, truly frightening.
Put it into perspective, we are asked to pay top dollar to be treated like 2nd class citizens or animals dependent on who we are playing and even our own board are shitting on us, who’s the mugs eh?
gebhoy
Fanadapatriot.
Why? Why would our board turn against us/the fans/the club.
Who gains from that? Certainly not Celtic.
That is why I say it is vital for the board to target their next response to the correct enemy.
This is a long war of attrition, like one of those movie trials, that turn on one piece of evidence.
Someone is in the wrong here.
I don’t believe it to be us.
So the board waits on the enemy’s error of judgement ,that can be proven as such.
Identify the mistake, nail it.
Spearman says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:39
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:34
Replace “Ooh Ahh up the RA” with “Ohh Ahh Tiocfaidh ár lá” in Celtic Symphony…both leagal and defiant?
Why are you asking on here? Write to Eddie Smith, he is the judge, it seems.
It’s times like this when I wish P.L. had the balls of FC Sion Chairman, Christian Constantin.
At least Constatin had the courage to stand up to UEFA, mad as he is.
Dearie me……
LuxCelt says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:42
Yeah… I know… I personally think Celtic Symphony is fine as it is… even as a non IRA supporter… but its hard to convince anyone else …. they only seem to here the reference to the RA. It would stop it being political in any way.
Reply relating to destruction of data from MSP.
————————————-
Christina McKelvie MSP
Hamilton, Larkhall & Stonehouse – SNP
13 December 2011
Dear TMQ
Thank you for your email. I apologise for the delay in your receiving a response; this may be due to some IT problems within Parliament a few weeks ago when some emails were lost. We have also found in the past that emails sent through the They Work For You website don’t always reach their destination.
You asked about the reported destruction of data from 2005 – 2009 relating to offences committed under Section 74 of the 2003 Criminal Justice Act. This is in fact standard Crown Office policy in relation to its internal data retention and has been since at least 2001. Police reports in concluded summary cases are kept for two years while case reports for sheriff and jury cases are kept for five years. This applies to all summary complaint files regardless of charge.
The SNP government has conducted a full analysis of the available data, as promised. The breakdown is available to read at http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/11/17154035/0. The data shows that in 2010-11 there were 693 charges aggravated by religious prejudice, up 9.7% than in 2009-10. In 27 out of 32 of Scotland’s local authority areas there were charges with a religious aggravation. 79% of all offences took place in the Strathclyde police area and a third of total charges were directly related to football.
It is my view that these figures show just how necessary the Scottish Government’s legislation to tackle the issue of sectarian behaviour at football matches is. The Government has been very open-minded and made several amendments to the legislation in order to respond to the concerns raised about it. In the end though, I believe there is a consensus in Scottish society that action has to be taken on this issue. The police and the courts also back the view that a specific offence will bring clarity to the law in this area, send a clear message that such behaviour is unacceptable, and enable the courts to impose stiffer sentences on the most serious offenders.
I hope this answers your question.
With kind regards,
—————————
Guff
Spearman says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:20
oglach UFB says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:16
The board are against republican singing at CP as was Stein, McNeil, the old board and Fergus McCann to name but a few. They see it as being bad for the club.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————-
The cons, many, and pros of the Republican song at CP book are not really the major issue as i see it. Many Irish republicans like myself have always questioned the add ons. Now If we want to keep CP free of all Irish political songs where does that leave us? I personally equate singing TBOTOB with singing a song in praise of Scots rebels. No one has yet to clarify why one is so radically different from the other apart from one is Irish. We can of course argue why does Celtic fly the Irish Tricolour at CP? The flag has nothing to do with the founders of Celtic or football and 1st appeared in 1798 presented to the united Irish men by the French although as far as I am aware was never used during the 98 rebellion. It came to prominence during 1916 Rebellion and Irish War of independence . If Celtic wished to honour Celtics founding fathers and the Irish diaspora surely a gold harp on an emerald green background should be used , I am of course being polemic here. I have a suspicion that symbols of Irish Nationalism such as the Tricolour will be next on the SNP / Scots establishments hit list. If singing songs in praise of the men who fought under the Tricolour is wrong by definition shouldn’t the display of a contentious flag be deemed illicit? Can we sing the fields? – we will have to sanitise the sentence about rebelling against the crown. Could we sing “god Save Ireland’ the inaugural song of CP? – a song in praise of 3 Irish Terrorists the equivalent of singing a song about Robert Sands MP today, Or should we simply keep the board and uncle tims happy and leave all the Irish tosh at home? Where does it end.
I hope i am very very wrong but fear this could be the thin end of a very wide wedge.
Grt article,Paul
Hail Hail
ernie lynch says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:38
We play the Fields on the PA!
You get to the stage everything is political. Tickets to game too expensive? Politics! The SFA Cup should be on a free to view channel? Politics. You think the pavements around Celtic Park are a disgrace…
iki says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:46
Spearman says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:39
Silver City Neil Lennon says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:34
Replace “Ooh Ahh up the RA” with “Ohh Ahh Tiocfaidh ár lá” in Celtic Symphony…both leagal and defiant?
Why are you asking on here? Write to Eddie Smith, he is the judge, it seems.
_________________________________________________
It was a suggestion … not a question.
bournesouprecipe, 13 December, 2011 at 16:35
Maybe the MBB CW can be reported to UEFA for illicit invoicing?
;o)
Okay it was a joke not a barb!
I should have ignored your illicit question mark.
Eurochamps67
The board indeed turned against the support.Lawwell brought it up at the AGM.Why?.Slan
European week and a good football site debating this tosh. I despair.
I only found out last night, courtesy of the ole Sweetheart, that there are in fact FOUR Chuckle brothers!
So in the spirit of that knowledge, I propose that if we must sing about the ole IRA to prove our Cellick lovin’ credentials, we tweak the lyrics to go-
Ooh Aah! Chuckle Chuckle Chuckle Chuckle Ar La!
To me! to you! to Eddie Smith.
That’s an excellent article, Paul. I know we are distracted now but in the long run it may prove more important than the chants debate.
But how things have changed in the last year. Then anyone with a brain knew the Foe Malign were ‘Scotland’s Shame’ Now it is us not them who are the ‘enemies of civilisation’. Suits the SNP who saw the danger of being identified as pro-timmy. Suits the police – plenty of opportunities for promotion without offending the majority population. Imagine Corrigan’s autobiography – Big Fat Cambell: The Man Who Smashed Sectarianism. Believe me, anything’s possible in modern Scotland.
In Franz Kafka’s, ‘The Trial’ an innocent man – Josef K – is arrested for a crime which is never specified. Eventually he is executed, still ignorant of his offence. I fear a lot of Joe Ks in the Celtic support are going to feel the full force of a law which will be made up as they go along.
BTW I don’t find RA chants offensive. They are most certainly not illegal at the present moment. But they do give serious offence to many people who are not huns.
Phil McG had an excellent wee read in the AV or the NTV on saturday.
He has picked up on something I have wanted for a while also.
Lets sing Óró, Sé do Bheatha ‘Bhaile.
a wee song about royalty returning home, surely cant be offesive to anyone in this country.
followed up by the Protestant Men.
then watch them spin.
fanadpatriot says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:57
Eurochamps67
The board indeed turned against the support.Lawwell brought it up at the AGM.Why?.Slan
He wants to pick up soft Huns when their club goes under. Perhaps not but look at things from PL’s point of view. He wants access to as many potential supporters as possible. Singing songs about the IRA reduces our potential fan base. It reduces the inclination of brands to sponsor us. I have long held the view that the more money we have, the better players we’ll buy. Don’t sing about the IRA. We’ll win the League more often.
Have been watching Celtic since 1960 when a mere lad and have seen both good and bad times.
At the beginning they were really bad and many of the men I went with blamed Bob Kelly for not investing sufficiently in the team or meddling too much.
I remember much of the criticism well but I also recall that those older than me always described Kelly as a true Celtic man who would never knowingly let us down.
A common criticism was he was “too nice” or too “decent” but another frequent observation was he would never allow Celtic to be messed around.
The Board, by its shameful actions today, have let down our current fans and shareholders enormously. Bob Kelly would be spinning in his grave in disgust.
If I thought my shares were worth anything I would seriously think about selling them; that’s how disgusted I feel today. Absolutely sickened to the core by the Board acquiescence!
Think it may be a while before I am paying any more money into CFC while this lot are running the show.
Saint Stivs – Kano 1000 – Glasgows Green and White says:
13 December, 2011 at 17:07
Phil McG had an excellent wee read in the AV or the NTV on saturday.
He has picked up on something I have wanted for a while also.
Lets sing Óró, Sé do Bheatha ‘Bhaile.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Óró, Sé do Bheatha ‘Bhaile ? Would that be the origional Jacobite Version or Patrick Perase’s version – The marching song of the IRA flying colums – ever seen the wind that shakes the barley?
Both illicit Rebel songs however only one version will be picked up on. I would hazard a guess and say it would be the Irish one.
A
i would go with the Jacobite one, i think it would cause the most consternation, singing in Gaelic, and how would they decide what words were offesive, unless that nice mister police man sings at the Mod.
As a football supporter, you wouldn’t be doing it right if you were never ever offensive at any point.
After this week I will need to reappraise the way I support, or chuck it, more than likely the latter.
£500 a year to be a sitting duck for a polis with a quota? Nah!
stephenpollock says:
13 December, 2011 at 16:59
European week and a good football site debating this tosh. I despair.
Eh one mans tosh is another mans eh no tosh.