This was a defensive and tactical failure. Efe Ambrose was slow to follow his man for the first goal (Fraser was the beaten easily, though redeemed himself later). Efe was also brushed off the ball at the second goal. Strength in the six yard box is imperative for a central defender.
Mikael Lustig was caught underneath his man for the cross which led to the second goal, a feature of our defending all night. All he could do was attempt to block the header back across goal, instead of challenge for the ball. He was also in the wrong starting position, and therefore, unable to stop the cross which led to the fourth goal.
With Lustig and Ambrose already culpable at the second goal, Virgil van Dijk was caught napping. He may have expected better from his team-mates, but he should have remained alert with the ball inside the penalty area. The space afforded to Radovic, Virgil’s man, should never have existed.
I’ve no idea why Emilio, our only left back, was omitted from the starting line-up. He offered balance when he came on, until his late horror show when he was turned inside out, then inside out again, at the third goal. It was like watching a clip from the 50s, when full backs didn’t know to get tight and close-off one option for the attacker.
Charlie Mulgrew had a nightmare beyond the level of the others, which is saying something. Two penalty kicks, failing to attack the ball with his man, who headed the third goal, failing to track the run for the fourth, and the debacle which led to possession being lost when Efe was red carded, was a calamitous return.
I’ve heard transfer rumours about everyone who played in defence last night apart from Lustig and Izaguirre. It looked like the defenders had been listening to them too, and had minds on other things.
The squad’s weaknesses were exposed by Legia.
It’s probably too late to lament the absence of Wanyama, but with Brown again out through injury, we’re short of bite in central midfield, exactly what we needed when the defence was comatose. Stefan Johansen and Charlie Mulgrew had the senior combative roles, it just didn’t work. We need to fix this gap as soon as possible.
Ronny got things wrong.
I agree with the manager’s assessment in his post-match BBC interview, the back four didn’t defend as a unit, which is fatal at any level of football, and we didn’t press as a team. I’ll make no excuses for the defenders, but playing this specific 4-3-3 away from home in Europe was asking for trouble.
If we’re short of bite with Johansen and Mulgrew, we’re shorter still if the third man in the middle is the creative Kris Commons. Love him, though we do, he is neither a tackler nor a box-to-box player. The middle three in this formation need to be mobile, covering as much ground as four, sometimes five, opponents. Johansen, Mulgrew and Commons was wrong on all levels. As a result, the Legia midfield probably had their easiest game of the year.
Callum McGregor delivered a goal, as much as anyone could reasonably expect of him, but this was his first game against top-flight full-timers. He needs people to ease him into the role. Jo Inge Berget hasn’t trained with the club, has played only twice since January and there’s a reasonable chance he didn’t know the names of all his team-mates.
If you want to know why we didn’t press as a team as soon as Legia got in amongst us, the clues are everywhere. Of course we didn’t press as a team.
On top of this, we ran the same Pukki experiment as last year, with the same outcome. We’ve seen a lot more of this Celtic team than Ronny, who might now be on the same page as the rest of us.
“Anywhere but Warsaw” was title of the CQN article on the day of the draw as this one was entirely predictable, and that was before Legia won in Dublin. The new manager has yet to get his feet under the table. The squad are in a state of flux. We are short of experienced, reliable, players in several positions, and football in July is often a lottery. There was a chance Legia would capitulate but it was more likely that they would be fitter and better rehearsed.
Seven days is a long time in preseason terms, and as you don’t need me to tell you, we’ve been here before. Don’t think this is over.
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A bit off topic but watching the CW games and it’s the handicapped lawn bowling.
One guy is rolling the ball with a specially adapted shoe, while the opponent is just kneeling and playing his shot, seems a bit uneven to me.
It’s next season that really matters re qualification for the CL, the money near enough doubles for getting to the groups.
I will wager now we won’t make it.
That at the end of the day will have to rest on the policy makers.
HH
Paul 67
If your last line is to be taken as we still have a chance I’m sorry I cannot agree, we are a weak team that was exposed very easily, we have no meaningful threat from the strikers some of whom dont get chosen, the defence again look poorly coached and organised, I read somewhere else that RD thinks he needs to communicate better, no kidding but too late for this CL campaign, what do you think he means by lack of energy? Is it cant be bothered or lack of fitness or a combination of both, seen this too many times to be a coincidence, it would appear the board have opted for someone in RD to try and get more out of ordinary players because we pay them well for Scottish football, this was a pathetic capitulation last night and heads need to roll at board and football level.
Oh, and because I’m watching bowling fleetingly on the telly, doesn’t mean I’m a hun…:)
G’day Celts
Dontbrattbakkinanger I’ll take any positive today and your retirement news is positively brilliant, a big thumbs up and hail hail to ye!
Vinny
Paul67 –
Mostly agree with your analysis but setting aside last night’s naieve tactics and poor performaces there are a couple of points you make that are worth picking up on :
“We are short of experienced, reliable, players in several positions, and football in July is often a lottery.”
Hard to disagree. But we’ve known this for a long time – the question is why have we failed to address it? Continuous improvement of the team should be our first priority. Whatever the strategy is for this is clearly not working – we are no better a team than we were several years ago. We have not improved.
“There was a chance Legia would capitulate but it was more likely that they would be fitter and better rehearsed.”
We know that other teams’ seasons are already well underway when we face them in qualifiers. Again, why do we fail to address this? Or rather what can be done to address this? It happens every year.
“Seven days is a long time in preseason terms, and as you don’t need me to tell you, we’ve been here before. Don’t think this is over.”
As always, the Celtic support will turn out to urge the team on. A big ask now but the fans never ever fail to play their part.
We need to give RD time to make his changes and I hope he goes with youth they would not have been any worse than the senior players.Lets face it Forster will be sold Van Dyke will be sold and I hope the bomb scare that is efe will also be sold so there will be positions in the first team available.I believe youngsters will be more likely to take on board and carry out Ronys methods I think instead of throwing money about give youth a chance and in a couple of seasons we may well have a team who can compete in Europe.Last night no doubt Rony got it wrong but also for me the players on the park let him down and that is not the first time either. H.H.
darwinsbeautifulidea – i agree with you bud. this dialamanager guy is a joke. preety obveeus lenny didnae fancy it so he got oot while he cood. dialamanger is a stool sparrow for lawwell. we will be lukky to win the leegue and this is jist when rangers are gettin themselfs sorted out.
its a joke
mon the hoops
sipsini
I noticed that in the swimming, one lassie appeared to have only one leg and the winner was described as having behavioural/concentration problems. a wee tad unfair?
sorry, but like yourself I’m trying to stay off topic, last night, and the implications for the season ahead, dont bear thinking about just now
11:31 on 31 July, 2014
The multitude of issues we have at the moment on and off the pitch and here we have two crackpots debating Polish licensing laws and the sponsor on our jersey.
And we should be pulling out this f*cking friendly on Saturday before we do more damage to our ‘worldwide brand’.
—-
shut up ya tool
guy asked a question
an answer was given
hardly crime of the century
singapore celt
Peter Lawwell gets sacked. Then what happens? Who do you blame? That’s right the guy that takes his place. Why? Because he will do what he is told too.
The Green Man
I know nothing about being on a football board but they look at the whole picture. I have worked in accountancy and you must look at the forecast and budgets for any company. Last year v this year v next year. It’s not an exact science. Anything can happen and contigency monies need to be in place. Celtic have spent a lot of money on infrastructure off the pitch. Realistically we will have 8 games in Europe per season which will generate decent money. Last 16 in the CL is a bridge too far. We are competing with clubs who have spent upwards of £200m on players.
Say we have £20m in the bank and we sell FF and VVD for £15m+.
What do you propose? Spend £40m on players transfer fees and salaries? This will possibly enable us to win the treble and go maybe one more round in Europe. Club will make a decent enough sum of money. That’s a good scenario. Spend the same monies and the players don;t deliver like derk and balde and numerous other signings we have made in the past you then have an asset that is depreciating and toxic. You then lose money on the player by selling him or on wages. The fans are not happy because we have a £30k a week player in the stand or on the bench and the team is not delivering. You have no money to strengthen. It’s not an exact science like I said previously.
In an ideal world Celtic pay £2m-£3m for players and pay them under £20k a week. Oh aye we did that last season and we have them on the books not delivering much.
Do we risk the same? Hard to say at the minute. Panic buying never works and we are in panic buying territory. I hope Ronny doesn;t panic buy and takes his time to find the right players. The UCL has gone for this season. Our focus now is the EL play offs. Get players in to get us through that. Have a good run in Europe. Our coefficient needs it. We can;t afford to bow out early. be ready for next seasons CL through playing players to his tactics and formation throughout this season and have a go again. We will not make the Cl group stages every year. That’s just the reality of our position in European football. We have punched above our weight for a few years.
Coming on here and venting about it is fine but in reality look at the numbers and the strategy we are taking and you propose to take and consider the risks. I can honestly see why Celtic take the track they are on. It’s a calculated risk but it makes sense. It doesn’t make it less frustrating as a fan though.
LB
DBBIA
What larks.
Hail Hail
RD said recently that Celtic should not need to play 3 qualifying rounds in the CL. We would all agree with that. However, as we need to play these games we should be beating the teams we meet. Yet last night showed that logic does not apply in football, totally outplayed, tactically beaten and miserable performances by supposedly mature players, so if we have to play qualifiers lets master the art of winning and playing well.
I fear we may have already seen the high water mark for a while. The biggest iceberg has still to come over the horizon and that is the fact that we live next door to a country who will give out more in prize money to their bottom placed club in their top flight than you would get for winning the Champions League.
Give that a couple of years to settle and filter down through the system and we will be fighting off league 1 clubs for our best players, never mind Championship ones. Every single decent youth prospect will be taken off our hands too.
The consensus in the CSC I was in last night was that, in the absence of any mechanism for structural reform of leagues in Europe, the sooner Sevco are in the Premier League the better because to the outside world interest will pick up and we will be seen to have a rival of sorts. This was seasoned, hardcore Celtic men who won’t miss a game this year talking.
I see Standard Liege are supposedly offering 2 million for the young midfielder at French club Nancy if it is true it looks like he wont be arriving at Parkhead anytime soon. H.H.
Livibhoy
You are talking sense bud…no doubt,…but the problem is this:
We have a CEO who constantly tells the supporters lies, and someone on the board who is sanctioning the wasting of resources by buying crap overpriced players.
Seriously…..I couldn’t do any worse.
We have a board who refuse to spend money, work in collusion with the police to harass Celtic supporters…for singing….who at the same time expect the supporters to foot the bill for everything.
That’s not realistic.
HH
sipsini
11:39 on 31 July, 2014
A bit off topic but watching the CW games and it’s the handicapped lawn bowling.
One guy is rolling the ball with a specially adapted shoe, while the opponent is just kneeling and playing his shot, seems a bit uneven to me.
————————————————————————————-
I think it’s always a problem when trying to decide who qualifies to take part. You’re not going to find 10 people with exactly the same kind or severity of disability so you have to have a mix of competitors. Viz : the controversy a number of years ago with runners using blades.
Livibhoy 11.31
I think the players HAVE been getting it in the neck on here, at least last night they did.
IMO this is like one of those Venn diagrams we got at school, like who is a member if what etc.
The CEO is directly culpable because of the interference in playing matters which should be outwith his direct remit, and slavishly blinkered devotion to money.
The new manager is directly culpable for, at best, naive idealism or, at worst, pigheadedness for team selection/tactics and, frankly, rubbish match management as the fame unfolded
The players – allowing for the downsizing over several years (see CEO above) – are directly culpable for both being incapable of doing simple things like keeping possession and failing to perform at the level at which we know some can ANC have .
The issue is that all these factors combine to create the perfect storm we encountered last night and that, as well as the demarcation of responsibility I’ve suggested above, they all interlink. CEO appointed the manager and (allegedly) signs players, the manager instructs players to go about their business in a fashion they maybe can’t or (worryingly) won’t, and can we feasibly blame the players if we think are not good enough for our expectations?
By way of example, I received a text after 15m last night from someone who is usually a C Mulgrew admirer who described him as the ‘New Roy Aitken’ – and it wasn’t intended as a compliment. I had no further texts afterwards.
I freely admit I was raging after Artmedia and wanted WGS hunted. I just feel numb this morning and don’t see any way forward.
Sorry for the disillusioned ramble.
Sidney Tim
Lawwell will stay as long as Dermott Desmond remains in overall control of the business policy that Celtic follow.
There is a reason for that policy in DD’s eyes and to him it’s a good reason. He is not going to run an unsustainable business because he is not going to pay the difference to keep it sustainable just to keep you or the support at large happy.
That is how successful business men think.
So as long as the policy is to run a sustainable business PL Is not going anywhere or if he goes because he has had enough of treading water, then the replacement will have to operate under the same policy with the same results.
Now if you or indeed anyone were to start to question the policy and the need for it, offer realistic suggestions on how it might change and so remove the constraint any CEO will work to, there might be some constructive as opposed to destructive debate.
I’ll start the ball rolling by asking should we dramatically cut football operations size including development to say a core 25, sign short term loans to cover long term injuries to key core players when necessary and use savings to up the individual wages?
To check if that were reasonable you would have to establish football operations cost. The wage bill, how much would be saved from staff reduction and what effect spreading that money around the remaining 25 would have.
I cannot be arsed doing the work to set out that scenario, so I’ll just blame PL’s bonus avarice.
One benefit of last night’s utter shambles….no one can argue if the manager decides to punt ANY player. Although on the basis of only being as good as your last game, I doubt we will be inundated with buyers.
Although obviously 2 weeks beind Legia in terms of competitive match sharpness. We always knew this would be the case so WHY didn’t we ensure the players were given thorough training preparation to ensure they were fully fit. Instead we wilted badly, while admittedly carrying a couple of passengers which didn’t help then the reduction to 10 men.
Tactically we were inept, had no real shape / balance to the side….some players might consider themselves better than others but we need a full team ethic to be foremost in order to progress as a club.
I can take losing, even heavily but to throw the game away in such fashion due to utter stupidity, most possibly due to players ignoring managers instructions should result in those players being shown the door.
I felt beforehand the game was a step too soon for us, still in transition between what style Ronny wants and our old system – clearly this doesn’t work…we go one or the other not run both in parallel – only leads to chaos. If this means former regulars have to sit out then it’s too dam bad….shape up or ship out.
If Celtic managers don’t perform….they resign or get sacked.
Why should it be any different for executives?
HH
Nice try Auldheid but after years of attempts I fear Sydney is locked in a room with a typewriter that hasn’t enough keys to spell Willo properly.
No reasoned debate to be had there just a Father Jack Hackett type speech every so often before sloping off back to sleep.
Adds colour to the blog I suppose :)
twentyfirstofmaynineteenseventynine
11:46 on 31 July, 2014,
Ye, I read most posts on the blog during my nightshift. I can understand the frustration and anger from a lot on here but it’s early days for our new manager and hopefully it’s just a bad start.
Saying that, he needs to be backed by the board with money to sign what he thinks is the players to play the Celtic way.
As for the handicapped events, it must be a nightmare to categorise what level of disability is what. HH
Paul- your optimism is commendable but unfortunately can only be viewed as the heart ruling the head.
When asked by others what I thought of RDs appointment, I said, and still say, that he should be given a chance. Last night’s tactical choices are concerning, but we need give him the chance to fail so long as he learns from such failure.
Individual players let us down- Efe and CM particularly. CM reminds me of Rab Douglas- he must pinch himself sometimes at his luck- not only has kept a place in a team like Celtic, but that he has even captained our club. I have never rated Efe and never will- sorry I can’t sit on the fence with this one- he is never a top central defender. Ever.
However, the principal blame must go to the board- the result is the inevitable- i say again- inevitable, consequence of penny pinching and downsizing. RDs indignation that Celtic have to play 3 qualifying ties is made to look misplaced now. We have the board to blame. No-one (except bampots) is calling for reckless spending- we want modest investment in quality. We want an end to the cross-your-fingers-sure-rangers-arent-here policy. We cannot hope to simply scrape into the group stages (dependent on good draws with pre-season rustiness and lack of cohesion not being exposed). We hear it every year- we will be preparing for the qualifiers from May, we are working hard identifying targets… blah blah…(at the same time as selling our prize assets or letting contracts expire).
The biggest failing in this team is up front. Stokes, Griffiths, Pukki, Boerrigter- none of them are up to CL level. None. We have had well over a season now to address the striking department’s failings. Instead, we relied on a midfielder banging in 30 odd goals without a decent front man. If KC scored 32 last season in the SPHell, Hartson would’ve got 50, similarly Sutton. Henrik wouldv’e beaten Messi’s 91, of course!
Rather than address the problems, we are more likely (on the evidence of the last few seasons) to sell Forster, VVD and KC and buy up a few Dundee Utd players with a few loans from various parts.
PL now assumes his role as a Scottish Football grandee- surely he can see that Celtic are now likely to be part of the cause of our crap coefficient rather than blame other teams for dragging us down.
I dont think the problem is the board not spending money last night we had Baldie.Stokes,Kayal,Biton,Boerighter all of whom we spent money on but not played suggests to me the are we require to sort out is why when we buy players often they are very poor.One quote from RD I liked was he would rather sign 2 quality players than 5 average ones we need to give the guy time he cannot change everything overnight.H.H.
Green Man
Unless you can back up your perception as you set it out it remains a perception.
Perceptions are not real only what we think is real.
Sometimes when what is real is set out or a more realistic alternative is offered we change our perceptions, other times we cling on to them anyway because like a warm blanket they offer comfort.
the green man
12:01 on 31 July, 2014
See Auldheid above
You say CEO is not performing.
He’s not performing to YOUR criteria – is he keeping his Master happy??
The Green Man
The only way I can answer that is to say if you are that unhappy with the club is to withdraw your financial support and tell them why. I would not defend PL if I thought he lied to the fans. I do however defend him because he is an employee doing what he is told.
squire danaher
Few decent points. Take the last one though. The Artmedia game was a freak. Everything they hit went in. I think they had 5 shots on target and scored them all. We showed at Celtic Park how poor they really were. I would compare that match with Karagandy.
We have made mistakes and got some terrible results away from home in Europe my whole life so it’s not a huge surprise. The confidence on here baffled me yesterday.
I would compare last night with Neautchatel Xmax. Poor play from players who are capable of better. Poor managerial decisions and a fairly decent outfit who got lucky and more confident on the night. This type of result has happened plenty times. Celtic need a solid defence because the fans will always will the team forward. WGS sorted the defence out first. That was his priority. I think Ronny has to do the same because Ambrose and VVD do not talk to each other 30+ experienced CB who can talk VVD through games because although the Bhoy has amazing talent he was posted missing at a few goals. Where was he? Ambrose may make all the mistakes but why is he always on his todd?
Lots for Ronny to sort out. If he really is the real deal then he will get it sorted. He has a lot of work to get on with in the meantime.
LB
livibhoy
11:47 on 31 July, 2014
singapore celt
Peter Lawwell gets sacked. Then what happens? Who do you blame? That’s right the guy that takes his place. Why? Because he will do what he is told too.
___________
Wouldn’t most on one million a year!
Doesn’t make it right though.
The tie is over we are out.
Ronnys 4-3-3 if he hasnt got the sense to change it when it’s going pear shaped. Then he’s a dud. Hope he gets to feck as soon as possible. Flannel and bull that’s all he has.
Auldheid
If we stick to the policy that we are embarked on, it will ultimatly fail, we are seeing the fruits of it now.
We should be flexible enough to bring in a few older heads, players who can help the kids, players who have been and gone and done it.
There are plenty out there who are plying their trade for little money each week.
HH
I thought the team selection was wrong and the player performances abysmal!!!
Not too sure I buy into the wrong formation (two in the middle) debate.
Legia (a supposedly weaker team) played the very same formation
Do we play 433 or 4231? Looks like a 4231 to me
DBBIA
Congrats on the retirement. Hope you enjoy the time.
lionroars and HT
Good to see some sense starting to come through after the howls of pain last night. Our players had a terrible time and were much worse than anyone would have predicted. Even those of us who did not dismiss Legia as a pub team were surprised at how often we were cut open with simple plays. Legia produced only two moments which were vaguely magical. One from Radovic where he twisted Izzy inside out (though Izzy should have got closer and VVD should have dealt with the cross, but FF should not be chasing outswinging crosses) and one from their left side sub who skipped between two defenders to get a shot away.
The first half was a poor affair from both teams and the sending off was a critical factor. All our fans were looking for a 20 to 25 minute period where we took the heat out of the game, played defensively and discouraged Legia from thinking they could score easily. However, though it took them until the 84th minute to score, the Celtic defence did not look at ease in the first 10 minutes after the break and Legia should have scored a couple earlier.
Playing Matthews at LB is not a mistake per se. He is an experienced pro who has done a turn there before. However playing Matthews at LB in an important away tie, after playing Izzy there in the two Reykjavic games and Twardzik there in the friendlies WAS a mistake. We gave Adam no competitive practice in one of the positions we wanted him to cover.
Berget was an astounding surprise. We keep calling for new bling to be bought to help us negotiate the qualifying ties with more ease but the evidence is that the new guys struggle to cope. Moyoukolo and VVD cost us in Karagandy last year. Berget was posted missing this year. Neil did not field Wanyama in either of our August ties against Sion, even though he had been at the club for a month by then. In fact it was in the 2nd tie of the Europa League, against Udinese before he was trusted and that took place on the 2nd last day in September.
I have no problem with the way that Ronny Deila analyses the game of football. The Celtic fans will buy into that vision of a more passing high energy style. However, he was smart enough to state beforehand that there will be a gradual evolution between his style and that used by NFL. I saw something more radical last night and little evidence of the safe clearances that were required at times. Last night needed more of NFL and less RD.
However, we, as fans, get impatient with our limitations and we want someone to blame rather than someone to fix it. Hence, we will want rid of manager after a 3-5 year spell, regardless of their success. It is a feature of magical thinking everywhere from picking your GP to voting in elections. The minute you say “I want rid of this guy and I want that guy in because he couldn’t possibly be any worse”, it is a sure sign that you have removed consideration of one of the 3 possible outcomes from your analyses.
Stick or Twist is always a gamble. So is speculation to accumulate. There are no guarantees in the competitive world of sport. But there are many things you can do to make things worse. Chopping and changing in a rage is top of my list of how not to run a team of any sort.
sipsini
11:43 on 31 July, 2014
Oh, and because I’m watching bowling fleetingly on the telly, doesn’t mean I’m a hun…:)
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Ho you……! Am a bowler… in saying that, with a couple of my pass times, I would probably be classed as a hun…! Hope yer well…
HH
lennon’s passion – your optimism and never say die attitude is infectious
First thing RD should do this morning is get on the phone to fellow Norweigan Brede Hangerland and ask him if he fancy’s a move to Celtic to lead the team from the back. If he is interested it’s then up to PL to make it happen. No transfer fee but high wages, a deal would need to be done, £20k per week with the equivelant of the same again as an annual lump sum for the length of the contract. Equates to a £2m fee for a 2 year contract.