Playing Adam Matthews and Emilio Izaguirre as wing-backs with Kelvin Wilson, Charlie Mulgrew and Mikael Lustig as a back three looked a bit clumsy and didn’t last the 90 minutes but that was to be expected. New defensive formations are not supposed to operate as smoothly as familiar systems.
I’m far from certain three at the back is a good idea, or if we have the correct personnel for this formation, but Neil Lennon should persist with the experiment. We will not learn and grow if we don’t take chances, which was one of our abiding frustrations under both Martin O’Neill and Gordon Strachan.
No experiments on Tuesday, of course!
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Wave goodbye to Ki… He’s going and has been for a while. He’ll fair better with Arsenal than Celtic.
Johnny Russel would be a good purchases with Ki money and we’d have £6m change…
Pick the 4 midfielders you think Lenny would have as his strongest.
I think he’d pick:
Brown Kayal Wanyama Commons
And the stupid orangeman said he left NI because of the troubles, he is just bringing the troubles here.
Stupid,stupid hvn
HH
petec
I’ve recovered from yesterday;-) and already looking forward to Tuesday.
Better European sides than Celtic would have toiled in Dingwall, but radical change
is needed from Celtic in tackling this type of side in a tight ground with a desperately defensive set up.
A repeat of Helsinki would be good, but think Helsingborg may be tougher, so score draw
a la Ross County is good.
Incidentally, Ajax had a top class win today and will be ones to watch in the CL this season, IMO.
EN
Yup, and it proved why 352 doesn’t work – you end up with two defensive midfielders, who sit on top of the centre-backs and all the opposition has to do, a la Ross, is push up on the full-backs. We’re then left with essentially 7 at the back/deep-lying, and then some people come on here and blame Commons for not tracking back. Add an ineffective Ledley and you can see why we struggled until we went 442 and brought on a striker who can shoot.
MadMitch,
You’ve just brought up one of my favourite subjects – MON.
Now, truthfully, how many wanted him gone at least a year before he left?
A wee heads up, everyone on our bus bar me…
Then the truth came out and, well…
Still loved what he achieved but, as has been proven lately, one bad result and you’ve no chance.
bournesouprecipe,
Me, well I’m just glad the bhoys will be getting a rocket up their jacksie’s for being complacent.
Our Youngsters need to be fired up, Still. ;)
The experience will come and it will be nicely timed.
I think the fact that some folk want to keep Ki and others want him sold (but at a better price than 5M quoted today plus a player who will offer us nothing we don’t already have) says he has not convinced everyone.
I think Ki is a fine player but he does disappear in games with some frequency especially away from home.
He will thrive in a team in a league where football is allowed to be played but the SPL won’t do for his development.
We’ve had 2 and a half good years from him. He has scored some brilliant goals and played very well in the cup final of 2011 but others will remember the two appalling misses in that semi final last season against Hearts.
Ki is worth more to potential suitors because with EPL exposure he’ll sell more shirts in Korea for a new club, he has an Olympic medal and he plays for a good international side who regularly make the latter stages of World cups. He is no mug and he is a former Asian young player of the year – a whole continent worth of people to choose from mind.
Personally I think it suits both parties – Celtic get the cash, Ki gets a big move and the fans keep their memories and can follow his development.
5M is an insult for such a player when nobodies like Jack Rodwell, Jordan Henderson and other English players who have achieved nothing in their careers can go for 15M plus. It is a total nonsense.
7M plus a cut of a future transfer is the very least we should be getting for a player with his CV.
And leave Stephen Dobbie to lower league loans. That is his level.
EN @ 23.45
NL tactics and shape changed every 10 minutes.
VW = Def MF. Looked to be playing and thinking at half pace.
BK = further forward trying to run through the opposition.
JL = Mr Ben performance – disappeared for hours on end.
AM = Flitted about, sometimes RB, sometimes RWB.
CM played a pretty straight LB with EI as a normal LM.
Big problem was the lack of anyone playing RM.
No natural width and anything coming down that side was slow and pretty obvious.
KC got involved every 15 minutes and GS was his very limited best playing up front.
I think any manager who has a fixed idea of his strongest 4 midfielders or best back 4 or starting 11, is displaying a degree of prejudice and inflexibility.
Ki is a heavily used choice by Lenny. He also has a better fitness record than all bar Ledley and Vic. We will miss him if he goes but I fear he will not want to put up with our refs’ tendencies to allow abuse of flair players.
My team would be;
FF
AM VW CM IZZY
KC BK JL SAMMI
GH TONY WATT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um5KYud9PMg
Bloke109
Aye, tried the 3-5-2 v ICT in the 2-2 home game a while back and it was abandoned quite quickly. Early in NLs time I sensed he would like to get the MON 3-5-2 set up to work and has tried to get similar players to those teams. To me its very hard to get 3-5-2 to work these days. To just try and copy what you think worked well previously seems like poor management to me.
EN
Ki would shine in
This seasons champions league imo,
My other opinion is if he only has a year left on his contract … Arsenal will hold out till janand get him on the cheap
EN
No matter how you line up 10 outfield players, you will face the accusation that you are aping tired old systems. There are only so many ways you can shuffle the pack and tactical layout is much over-rated by fans.
All systems are limited and depend upon hard work and creativity from players to overcome the system’s weakness.
I blame Championship Manager
MadMitch
Agree mostly, no creativity in the wings and two defensive midfielders in the middle with the anomenous Ledley who isnt very creative anyway, over cautious tactics.
EN
setting free the bears
Ha, I know but I guess we are more tactically/positionally minded in this forum age where we analise things to bits.
EN
pauloantony
I think Ki has 18 months left but , if he is going to be sold, this may be the optimal window in which to sell him for top price.
If we lose the likes of Ki, Wanyama, Kayal, Forrest, Hooper and Matthews over the next 2 years it is vital that we replace them with good prospects. Although there are a few promising SPL players (Russell, Templeton, Mackay-Stevens) we cannot replace all our foreign talent from within Scotland.
petec
Sadly, there was some complacency which is the last thing you need in the Highlands where the Inverness fixture is a ‘blueprint’ for how Celtic show change radically in plotting how you get three points.
show = should
MadMitch – You could say that some elements of the UVF were a little bit more forward thinking,progressive so to speak.Some of that crew did have socialist beliefs,and knew that there own working class communities and people were being manipulated,by the wealthier Unionist elite.
The UDA,i would say,were just out-and-out gangsters.They had one or two progressive leaders,maybe McMichael,or there current leader McDonald.
Both groupings have strong links to the Orange Order,and both have an almost irrational hatred of Catholics – i wouldn’t call it sectarian – they don’t have a real problem with Italians or Spanish,or even Catholics in the south of Ireland – it is their Catholic neighbours in the six counties,and in Scotland that they detest most.Personally,i think the religious issue is a side-show,it is more to do with land,power and money.
Without doubt,they are both,and always have been controlled by British intelligence – armed and used as an instrument of terror against their Nationalist neighbours.
Occasionally they fall out,mostly over territory,drugs and control of their districts,and they turn their guns upon one another.But as sure as night follows days,when these disputes are resolved – the target,once again becomes the innocent Catholic folk.
I can’t explain that deep routed hatred,it has been instilled in them over centuries,and it will take a long time to remove it.
Gino Gallagher was their tormentor-in-chief,Gino was an atheist and a socialist,and he dealt with them in his own particular way – nothing personal,nothing sectarian…Gino just believed that they were a poison,and that they could not be reasoned with.
SFTB / EN
Making one substitutions that results in 3 positional changes suggests that NL is struggling for confidence to see things through to conclusion.
3-5-2 is beyond our squad with the current level coaching we have at the club.
If TW was at any other team in the league he would have fancied his chances to score against RC. He isn’t at JR’s level at the moment but he has all the basics and is three / four years younger.
If NL had the bottle to play TW up front everything falls into place.
Back 4 = AM / ML / CM / EI
MF = KC / BK / VW / JL / GS.
TW plays up front on his own with KC / JL / GS taking turns to bomb on and support / do the MF runner stuff.
setting free the bears
You are right about this being the optimal time to sell Ki, and that is why it Will happen, Celtic must sell at the highest prices.
If we bring in SPL players they will be brought in to play for the next 5 years at least, I don’t think Templeton is nearly good enough but J R looks like he has the balls to play well at Celtic, I’ve not seen enough of M-S to say we should spend money on him, yet
16 roads …
Thanks for that.
UDA = Manufactured rabble being directed by others?
UVF = More organic with a bit of history / context but who still got involved with Whitehall?
Need to try and find out more.
EN
The problem on Saturday was Kayal and Ledley were too far apart most of the time, with Vic supposedly playing deep. There was no creativity in midfield.
3-4-1-2 worked ok for us last season on the two occasions we played it – Hearts 5-0, Rangers 3-0.
Wouldn’t mind seeing that again.
MM
I’ve never seen Tony Watt play as a lone striker. I am not saying that he has n’t, I just have not seen him do so. Have you?
At various times, I have seen Sammi, Hooper and Stokes perform this role reasonably well. I have also seen them hopeless at it.
Current thinking seems to favour 4:5:1 or even 4:6:0 but these fashions can be quite short lived. The best of systems (Rinus Michaels Dutch teams & the current Barca) all depend upon player versatility and inter-changeability
bournesouprecipe
The away support is incredible up there, like they are everywhere they go following Celtic and for this reason alone the players should be getting the 3 points secured ASAP.
I don’t know what it is and why we are not winning well up there but I am hoping we will rectify things this season.
Once we have our fate decided regarding the CL and the Transfer Window is negotiated I am hoping to see the 4 players Neil expects to break into the first team this season really push the slackers right out of the picture, or at the very least wake them up so they play to a high level every week.
There has never been a better time to see just how good our home grown players really can become.
“Celtic sources say further offers for Ki are expected this week and have placed Swansea’s £5m bid on ice in anticipation of a bidding war.”
the internets CSC
petec
I like the way Templeton has started this season. He has skill and bravery. If he can add consistency, he might make the jump up.
At the moment we have Forrest and McGeoch with young Paul George also a good wing prospect so we may not need Templeton.
Johnny Russell is developing nicely but Tony Stokes was in the same place 5 years ago so who is to say whether JR will develop the same or better or worse. But, at under £2m, he might be a cheaper gamble than Jordan Rhodes, who I also like.
Mackay-Stevens still looks like a fragile luxury player and is not quite ready for us yet.
SFTB
Someone has to take over GH’s role when he is unavailable.
That is CF / leading the line.
How we support him is open to discussion but that was the big decision NL did not take.
The continual tinkering with line ups and trying to fit in your best talents by playing them out of position is OK if it is one player but it smacks of a lack of confidence when it involves 3 players.
Talent and appetite will only carry you so far when the tactics / shape are wrong.
If the appetite is not there then it will always be a long frustrating afternoon.
up_over_goal
I didnt see the hearts game and didnt notice the formation in the 3-0 hunping, how was the 3-4-1-2 set up? I thought the default tactics for bigger games was 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 with empasis on the cautious.
EN
petec
Agree on the travelling support.
Inverness and now Ross County are environmental levellers, where psychologically our players are brought down. By comparison Pittoddrie equally difficult but for different reasons and in a reasonable stadium set up, a game of football normally occurs.
Coupled it with ‘the parked bus’ and a breakaway hit, Ross County will take many points, but might suffer on their own travels.
For our purposes we need a better plan, next time and I’ll risk saying it again a finisher was required yesterday, – which would have meant starting Tony Watt.
Coupled = couple
setting free the bears
I’ve not seen anything of Templeton this season, I was basing things on previous seasons.
I hope he is flying this season as we need as many good players in this League as possible to drive up the standard of the game.
I’m sure Celtic, if they do buy in the Scottish market, will make very good buys.
HH an nn all – up early doors.
Theres probably a rumour going round about training gear at Lennontown with the initials JR on it…
Jordan Rhodes?
Jonny Russel?
Juan Riquelme?
Riquleme was spotted in Greggs in Lenzie this monring….
SFTB
I fear you have rose tinted specs when discussing our youth with the best of SPL youth.
JR is a class act far removed in attitude and appetite from the immature fan dancer that is AS.
AS is the most talented forward we have had at CP probably since CB in 2005.
GH / SMcD / RK (in his dotage) might be better goal scorers but he is the most talented individual.
However talent is not everything and he is playing like lamb dressed up as mutton.
Looks old and cynical well beyond his years.
JR is a totally much more complete and rounded individual and player.
The only thing that would hold him back at CP would be the dressing room attitudes and the quality of the coaching.
bournesouprecipe
I said prior to the game I was looking forward to seeing one or two youngsters starting the game, I was surprised at the strength of the line up.
All that matters is Helsingborgs and that we defeat them.
BSR – We Will defeat them, hopefully over there as well as over here. ;)
nn