You and I have been discussing football finances here since 2004. In our early years Celtic lost several million pounds each year, CQN’s call was ‘we must breakeven over any business cycle’, an incredibly controversial view in those times of indulgent bling.
By 2004 Celtic hadn’t added a player who held down a sustained first team place for three years (since John Hartson in 2001). We also lost a talisman that summer. The pressure was on to spend, from the stands and the dug-out, but Brian Quinn, our chairman, had concerns about running at a permanent loss. In the face of considerable criticism from the bling-brigade he stood firm.
Celtic won three of the next four league titles while reaching new territory in the Champions League as others continued to spent beyond their means and exploit unconventional taxation policies, which ultimately saw them liquidated, but while the end game was predictable, most didn’t predict it. This resulted in strife at our club.
Finance was a focus of CQN in the early years when we produced granular analysis of accounts and budgetary forecasting. As we became less of a basket-case the time spent debating money reduced.
We can all talk about strikers and defending, policing and political influences, good corporate governance and the SFA, but if you scratch below the surface of those with many years of CQN behind them, I suspect you’ll find people who can’t resist a football club’s cost and revenue breakdown spreadsheet….
The document which appeared on the internet yesterday on a former football club [let’s call them ExCo] was a joy. To me, anyway. It provided many small details which add up to one or two enormous conclusions.
ExCo forecast current year spend for 2011-12 on cleaning costs to be £380k, electricity at £455k, insurance at £374k, postage and carriage at £146k, IT at £261k, professional fees at £613k and telephone costs at £149k. Stewarding was £593k, policing, £343k, match day ambulance, £89k. They spent £160k on finance salaries and £176 on press office salaries while ticket operation salaries cost £268k. The list is exhaustive, 10 pages of costs detailed.
Operating costs, before items like our old friend, amortisation, and tax (don’t laugh), were predicted to come in just shy of £37m, but the key message in all of this detail, is that if you want to operate a football club which can accommodate circa 40,000 spectators you need an infrastructure which costs around £20m.
The police, building maintenance, insurances, grass seed and everything else has to be budgeted for before you can look at player wages, not to mention transfer fees. £268k might sound like a lot to pay for ticket office staff but if you need to issue tens of thousands of tickets you need fulfilment staff. All those assets: enormous properties, thousands of fans, blanket media attention, can feel like liabilities to the guy with the responsibility to pay for them.
On reading this the overwhelming memory I had was of former Rangers director, Paul Murray, who a year ago told the world that Newco Rangers would not be viable, and he was hoping a Newco would have SPL football back then. New clubs cannot qualify in European competition until after they have completed three years trading (a minimum of four years without Europe).
With no European revenue for four years, Newco would be unable to pay all those ‘fixed’ costs and put a competitive team on the field. A big club can’t survive trapped in a small league with no European revenue.
This is reality. Scotland has one healthy large club and has a dozen or more potentially healthy small ones, but nothing will ever be the same again.
Thanks to everyone who has bought Willie Wallace autobiography. Orders in from Belfast, Blackpool, Bonnybridge, Burntisland and Blackrock. If you order now you will receive a copy signed by the man himself….
Email me if you have an article for CQN Magazine inside of you waiting to get out; celticquicknews@gmail.com.
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This is fantastic stuff,
If I had the opportunity to terminate rANGERs and then go on to decimate Sevco I could not have done it any better than these greedy, sneaky lot!
Truly remarkable how “an institution” can eat itself from within and let us wallow in their demise publically!
I’d just like to say a big
Thank you to these guys below…
(Please add anyone and we will see how Many we get before P67 next post)
Moonbeams, Heavily conflicted Ogilvie,Steakbake,Cardihun, Craigy Whyte, Chuckles, Jabba, Elbows, LNS, Marty Bain, fat John Greig, Bawmur Broon, Flanders, Wishart, Longmuir, Dungcaster, BFDJ, Chick Young, Jim Whyte, Imran Ahmed, Craig Mather, Mike Ashley, Cenkos, Zeus, Octopus, Gordon Dalziel, Keith Jackson, Duff and Phelps, Worthington group,
Charles
Soundcloud plays ok on my samsung android
Same issue as you with the docs though .. gonna fire up a bigger screen today. .. but would be great if someone had copied and filed them
Jinky. I went through it home and away during their tainted 9 ins row. So when we had the chance to nail them we didn’t take it. Cost us millions in income
I ‘heart’ Charlotte The Spivskelper :-D
King vic , don’t forget guy of gisborne
Petethebeat
It could be more akin to… your mate whos partner is blowing … all the money and credit … and also playing away.
Telling your mate is always dangerous to your future friendship
The King Vic 67,
I would have thought dishonourable mention might be made of the likes of Dougie Dougie and Dallas and Kenny McIntyre and the bulk of the BBC Scotland’s sports department. Nearly forgot, the man with the eyes in the back of his head from Brigton, Collum.
Morning all.
Wet and cold once again doon here by the sea. Still, laughing at them warms the ole cockles..
Sydney
We share your pain my friend … and I was very angry that we blew the chance to bury them. No doubt in my mind at the time that would have been their death .
But … if they had deceased then .. given the way the last 2 years have went.. they might have zombied back years ago and be up there challenging us.
Im just thankful I witnessed these days
Apologies if this has been pickup already but things are getting very very ugly over on wallow wallow, scary stuff in a thread about the leaked Charlotte emails –
#37
Yesterday, 21:29
frankfurterbear1
Gold Star Poster
Join Date: 29-07-2006
Posts: 3,818
Re: Charlotte Leaks: D&P up to their necks
Anybody know where Whytes father lives out of interest?
This is all going to end very badly!
Reality dawns on FF…
Theres an easy way to stop all these rumours publish audited accounts.
Starting to think i’ve pished the money i invested in shares up against a wall.
** edit, my comment at the end **
Moonbeams, Heavily conflicted Ogilvie,Steakbake,Cardihun, Craigy Whyte, Chuckles, Jabba, Elbows, LNS, Marty Bain, fat John Greig, Bawmur Broon, Flanders, Wishart, Longmuir, Dungcaster, BFDJ, Chick Young, Jim Whyte, Imran Ahmed, Craig Mather, Mike Ashley, Cenkos, Zeus, Octopus, Gordon Dalziel, Keith Jackson, Duff and Phelps, Worthington group,
Regan.
Dee- yell.
Wiggy Smith.
The porn producer/financial adviser used by Minty.
Shivers down the spine reading about the possibility of Paradise (names itself, doesn’t it). Let’s hope it takes off.
Mark ‘ qwerty’Hately
Gerald Butler’s agent is pulling out al the stops to have our hero play Willie Maley.
HH
Comical that the SMSM can avoid investigative journalism unless its Celtic, Dunfermline,Hearts etc….
Then they’re very comfortable ASKING questions..
HH
Mark Hately says…
boardroom turmoil/ confusion over ownership of assets/ losing a million a month/ being run by spivs and crooks…
is like a new signing.
Oh, and Green is their Fergus McCann.
Heart of stone not to laugh at this lot.
The Boy Jinky
https://twitter.com/CharlotteFakes
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 15 May Here’s yet another loan proposal – there were many. Let’s hide it though. SK Ali is an alias for Rafat Rivzi. http://www.scribd.com/doc/141736878/imran-rafat-craig-aidan-chris …
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 15 May I suppose Craig was only protecting his investment and liabilities. Shameful appraisal of some. Strong use of ‘WE’ http://www.scribd.com/doc/141745358/Budgets …
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 15 May Accounts and Forecasts: as sent by Imran Ahmad on June 2012 to those now fighting for control of ‘their’ assets http://www.scribd.com/doc/141764900/Forecasts …
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 16 May I have 1000’s of items to review, should the task be too large, I shall consider a wikileaks type dump. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119345
–Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 16 May Anything of interest in this email conversation? I’ll back it up later with the full purchase offer docs/emails. http://www.scribd.com/doc/141887195/Chosen-One …
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 19h CW v Ticketus appeal. He forgot to mention this email exchange,so here’s a free reminder you scallywag. Implications? http://www.scribd.com/doc/142046684/dont-tell-murray …
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 17h Then again, here’s further evidence of others who knew just what this charlatan had demonstrated in the past. http://www.scribd.com/doc/142055727/what-murray-knew …
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 14h Someone was in the process of compiling Duff and Phelps info. Note Paul Clark is aware that it’s a 3 year ticket deal http://www.scribd.com/doc/142089135/Duff-and-Phelps-Advice
-Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 12h Grier in Jan 2011 aware of short term funding. A 3 year deal (see prev) implies much more significant amount. http://www.scribd.com/doc/142101511/Quantum …
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 12h Letter and SPA attached re Sevco 5088 purchase. More to follow surrounding this offer. http://www.scribd.com/doc/142103828/Letter-and-SPA …
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Random emails re access to the Data Room – A free for all or significant payment required? Skali138 = Rafat Rizvi. http://www.scribd.com/doc/142111149/data-room-access …
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I’m not Craig Whyte, these are though. http://i.imgur.com/ZBLft95.jpg http://i.imgur.com/L1nwdaJ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/GTI2DiB.jpg http://i.imgur.com/TCG8C2q.jpg
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Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 8h Craig, Charles and Brian ‘position untenable’ Stockbridge have a chat – warning – crude language. https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/cg3 …
If nothing changes after these we can just pack up a forget about it………….
…add keevins to that list
Have to say they are taking some killing off! What a wonderful world if there were none left. PS This boards moves mega fast.
Moonbeams, Heavily conflicted Ogilvie,Steakbake,Cardihun, Craigy Whyte, Chuckles, Jabba, Elbows, LNS, Marty Bain, fat John Greig, Bawmur Broon, Flanders, Wishart, Longmuir, Dungcaster, BFDJ, Chick Young, Jim Whyte, Imran Ahmed, Craig Mather, Mike Ashley, Cenkos, Zeus, Octopus, Gordon Dalziel, Keith Jackson, Duff and Phelps, Worthington group,
Regan.
Dee- yell.
Wiggy Smith.
The porn producer/financial adviser used by Minty.
Sydney Tim
The Boy Jinky
I copied and pasted all links with info on them that CF has put on twitter since 15th May.
They have been put into moderation probably because to big:((
leftclicktic
09:34 on
18 May, 2013
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
off out for the day
I can’t get excited about this.
There is no desire within Scottish football for them to die.
They will not have their license revoked ,
The ownership battle will eventually be resolved.
I want padlocks on the gates , Tesco’s on the Ayebrokes site , and them ground sharing at Hampden.
Until that happens they are still on road of the Phoenix, and closer to there final SPL destination.
I have changed my mind .
I no longer want them to die.
I want them being a poor handicapped competitor that is injured and can never , ever regain their former prominence,
There to be beaten regularly , and laugh at there expense.
A pale shadow of the former self.
That is better than death for me.
The problem is that , that won’t happen whilst they still play at Ayebrokes and have over 35k attendances.
The SFA will ensure there survival , with the complicity of it’s member clubs.
TT
Doug and Dinsdale Piranha.
Sorry not for the first time Keevins stated last night on ssb that Celtic were closing a stand, a so-called Celtic supporter came on and agreed. Not until the end of the show Jim Delahunt stating this was not correct. Can someone one here clarify why all this confusion?
So, how is it panning out?
The SDL consists of about a dozen has been football hooligans. More to be pitied than scorned.
Well almost.
Big Mike
09:38 on 18 May, 2013
no confusion mike – keevens is indeed a tosser
Soz
I noticed the post asking for craigys dads address…
It was follow followed up with another zombie stating he lives a couple of miles from him
They have no shame and just pass the blame.
I can’t see a way out for them, they are toxic, even their own wealthy supporters wouldn’t touch them with a shi**y stick!
Anyway… were is (billy no well )gone?…loved sending his performances to
huns.
Hamilton Tim @8.39
I agree with your post.
CQN is populated/lurked by Celtic fans who are not typical of the Celtic support in general nor of the population as a whole.
There are so many disparate views expressed on here that it would be nigh on impossible to remain either uninformed or ill-informed (though one or two stalwarts seem to manage!).
I also believe that most CQNers agree with your post and that is why we are so interested in the likes of AT ,Cosgrove and the BBC`s Mark Daly type of programme ie We want the reality of Sevco to become national knowledge. That will only happen if it is reported in the MSM because, as you said, a great many Celtic fans DO still read the Record, The Sun ,The Herald amd The Scotsman and , if not fully accepting the views therein, are still influenced by them.
JJ
big mike
09:38 on 18 May, 2013
The confusion is ‘manufactured’ by ssb to create controversy, get people to call in, and to feed their anti-Celtic agenda……..Celtic decided to move fans closer together to create more ‘thunder’, but changed their mind when SB sales started looking really positive….or because the fans told them to ‘stope it’….LOL …..NO BIG DEAL….HH ….!!!!!!!!
Funnt tweet from lenny re Madrid derby turning tasty last night.
Said there would be a political summit had it occued in Glasgow. . O)))
I have no idea why anyone would ever listen to SSB —- I have been in Radio Clyde’s offices and repeated that sentiment.
In particular I have no idea why anyone would read anything by Hugh Keevins.
TinyTim
09:38 on
18 May, 2013
I’m with you pal……as long as those who
run the SFA are in position……..there will
always be a Sevco of some sort.
I’m off to Uttoxeter for the evening races does any of the CQN Racing Clique have any tips?
SPL lawyers will have a busy weekend trying to work out what to do with Hearts. If they are deducted points then they will be relegated and Dundee saved.
Ironically this time it really is the owners that are in trouble and not the club … although it is massively in debt too.