You and I have been discussing football finances here since 2004. In our early years Celtic lost several million pounds each year, CQN’s call was ‘we must breakeven over any business cycle’, an incredibly controversial view in those times of indulgent bling.
By 2004 Celtic hadn’t added a player who held down a sustained first team place for three years (since John Hartson in 2001). We also lost a talisman that summer. The pressure was on to spend, from the stands and the dug-out, but Brian Quinn, our chairman, had concerns about running at a permanent loss. In the face of considerable criticism from the bling-brigade he stood firm.
Celtic won three of the next four league titles while reaching new territory in the Champions League as others continued to spent beyond their means and exploit unconventional taxation policies, which ultimately saw them liquidated, but while the end game was predictable, most didn’t predict it. This resulted in strife at our club.
Finance was a focus of CQN in the early years when we produced granular analysis of accounts and budgetary forecasting. As we became less of a basket-case the time spent debating money reduced.
We can all talk about strikers and defending, policing and political influences, good corporate governance and the SFA, but if you scratch below the surface of those with many years of CQN behind them, I suspect you’ll find people who can’t resist a football club’s cost and revenue breakdown spreadsheet….
The document which appeared on the internet yesterday on a former football club [let’s call them ExCo] was a joy. To me, anyway. It provided many small details which add up to one or two enormous conclusions.
ExCo forecast current year spend for 2011-12 on cleaning costs to be £380k, electricity at £455k, insurance at £374k, postage and carriage at £146k, IT at £261k, professional fees at £613k and telephone costs at £149k. Stewarding was £593k, policing, £343k, match day ambulance, £89k. They spent £160k on finance salaries and £176 on press office salaries while ticket operation salaries cost £268k. The list is exhaustive, 10 pages of costs detailed.
Operating costs, before items like our old friend, amortisation, and tax (don’t laugh), were predicted to come in just shy of £37m, but the key message in all of this detail, is that if you want to operate a football club which can accommodate circa 40,000 spectators you need an infrastructure which costs around £20m.
The police, building maintenance, insurances, grass seed and everything else has to be budgeted for before you can look at player wages, not to mention transfer fees. £268k might sound like a lot to pay for ticket office staff but if you need to issue tens of thousands of tickets you need fulfilment staff. All those assets: enormous properties, thousands of fans, blanket media attention, can feel like liabilities to the guy with the responsibility to pay for them.
On reading this the overwhelming memory I had was of former Rangers director, Paul Murray, who a year ago told the world that Newco Rangers would not be viable, and he was hoping a Newco would have SPL football back then. New clubs cannot qualify in European competition until after they have completed three years trading (a minimum of four years without Europe).
With no European revenue for four years, Newco would be unable to pay all those ‘fixed’ costs and put a competitive team on the field. A big club can’t survive trapped in a small league with no European revenue.
This is reality. Scotland has one healthy large club and has a dozen or more potentially healthy small ones, but nothing will ever be the same again.
Thanks to everyone who has bought Willie Wallace autobiography. Orders in from Belfast, Blackpool, Bonnybridge, Burntisland and Blackrock. If you order now you will receive a copy signed by the man himself….
Email me if you have an article for CQN Magazine inside of you waiting to get out; celticquicknews@gmail.com.
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Morning Celts que pasa?
Ironman event on here this morning the place has been busy with them all week, hoping the sun doesn’t come out until later for them.
I take it the walls are still crumbling at sevco house? Must be just the asbestos holding it together!
V
BRTH
The cluster**** stuff was hilarious.
Any more?
italiabhoy
Sorry for not replying to your question about my post but l was up during the night reading and fell asleep just after l posted.
For all out in timland :
These are good days for us …dark and miserable days for those who hate us…we should all enjoy these times no matter how we think things should have happened.
jungle Jim 09.37- :-))
Celtic Underground
@celticrumours
13 yrs ago the SFA were concerned at possible links between a Celtic player & a player agency …
vham
This will hopefully answer your question…
http://m.soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/cg3
vmhan
sorry for mistake in your name…l am still half asleep.
Gordon_J
Is it not the case that the SPL season ends tomorrow therefore any points deduction for Hearts would be for next season?
JJ
Goldstar 10. Do you think ST noticed? 0:-)
BroganRogan
I haven’t been on here much for the last few months. But I always thoroughly enjoyed your posts/stories about your sporting heroes etc. Maybe a strange question? Are they available to read anywhere else? You really should make them more widely available if not. You have a real talent.
celticbhoy
10:09 on 18 May, 2013
vham
This will hopefully answer your question…
………….
Thank you kind sir, HH
V
Celticbhoy
I still cannot get anything on that. Does anyone have a transcript of the conversation?
JJ
Jungle Jim,
That’s part of the decision they need to make – if they rule that the insolvency event happened during the season then the points come off this season.
brogan rogan trevino and hogan supports kano 1000
09:55 on 18 May, 2013
Hugh Keevins about a year ago ranted at a Celtic fan calling all sorts of names …he then said remember to call back in again as calls like his paid for his daughter’s wedding and may pay his granddaughter’s too.
I haven’t switched on since.
JJ
The friend who introduced me to CQN (it’s about the only Celtic related blog I use) spent several years attempting to persuade me of it’s virtues.
Any time I was in his house he’d shout me through,
“C’mere and see this on CQN!!”
For long enough I decided it wasn’t for me and resisted the temptation.
He still gets dogs abuse from some guys on our bus for getting his information from informed blogs and not the MSM.
Incredible in light of what has come to pass.
Just heard that tape from Charlotte.
Brilliant.
Gordon
Thanks.
JJ
The Boy Jinky
9:14
Good morning CQN
a very fine morning to be alive,
unless you’re TRFC, here’s a link, it has 9 docs, if you click on individual first page of each they open & let you scroll down through all pages inside!
The likes of Clyde SSB are wholly reliant on advising revenue and listener figures for their survival, Bauer Media the German family firm who own them don’t give a rat’s backside about Celtic/Newco, as long as they can generate enough listeners to drive ad revenues then nothing else matters, in particular the health and proper governance of Scottish football.
Local management of course know they have to keep the Sevconians onside, even the mildest negative comment about Newco is met with fan paranoia and hostility, but they are as we know the most stupid and gullible football fans on this planet.
Watched the last part of the copa del ray last night, enjoyable except for the stupid looking diving and play acting going on, it’s surely time to end this by stopping play and checking the replay, punish the divers where no contact was made, it would quickly end I’d think.
V
big mike
09:38 on 18 May, 2013
Sorry not for the first time Keevins stated last night on ssb that Celtic were closing a stand, a so-called Celtic supporter came on and agreed. Not until the end of the show Jim Delahunt stating this was not correct. Can someone one here clarify why all this confusion?
%%%%%%%%%
Whilst I agree that SSB is not worth listening to, I have for the past two nights, thanks to the insistence of Nuts junior leaving a bloody radio on in her room loud enough to wake the dead whilst I suffered in my pit from man- flu.
Frank McAvennie had great fun with ‘Sevco’, ‘shysters’, ‘spivs’ etc. He played the role of a clever fool to a T!
Last night Delahun told a caller who complained about Macca that ‘…they had had a meeting about it this morning and felt it was fine..’ Keevins did his usual harumphing but before he made the remark about ‘closing stands’ he told a caller that Celtic’s average home attendance to see the Lions was ‘…between 20-30 000(!)’ He then went on to say to a caller, who had made the point that the country’s economy has been in recession for the past five years, that Celtic were reducing prices and closing stands because of the lack of bigotted, racist, small-minded-yet supremacist opposition!
Delahun corrected Keevins at the end of the programme and read a statement from Celtic rebutting the lies.
The MSM know that as far as deidco are concerned, the plug is about to be pulled!
Neillennon
@OfficialNeil: The madrid cup final got really tasty last night..if that had happened in Glasgow..political summits wouldve been called
jungle Jim
Sorry mate l haven’t seen a transcript .
I can get it to play on my Samsung phone which l post from…l don’t know if that is the reason why some folks here can’t get it to play.
No idea of authenticity – posted on KDS. Five way agreement draft?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6qvb6ltlqx11nn/5%20Way%20Agreement%20Draft%20Original.pdf
Can see no mention of Craig Whyte on that document.
If Hollywood is making a movie about Paradise, will someone not be making the Shenanigans over at IPox?
A bit like an Evil Dead movie with zombies that are kinda funny? LOL!
Via twitter.
Yep which is the reason CF has sprung now. Undoubtedly IMO this is a King/Murray/Bain(?) inspired move. Hope the Spivs win
I’d urge folk to be mindful of what the motive of CF is? It’s not to destroy Sevco, it’s to save it from the Spivs IMO.
Reason I mention Bain is that 6 mths ago saw King&Bain at St Vincent Street heading into L&M offices. Think Bain is in cahoots
Playing CQN catch-up after 3 days away with work so I may be off the pace and mood of fellow CQNers.
I’m with Tiny Tim and valentinesday – there will always be some form of Sevco in Scottish football.
My main concern is how Celtic and the support respond to the current challenges. The short-term should involve dominating the SPL to gain access into the CL and, crucially, qualifying for the Group stages. This will give us the financial strength to invest in the team, the infrastructure and to encourage the next generation of Hoops fans through SB deals. Supporters should respond by backing The Bhoys.
In the medium to long-term, this financial stability should give DD and PL the credibility to influence league reconstruction in Europe.
Anything else is a distraction, a side show which should not be allowed to sap up too much energy or drag us down.
thefutureisgreenCSC
Reply from barcabhoy from last post.
no, absolutely not . CF not in league with anyone at Rangers
Cheers for the responses lads, did not realise that Keevins was so devious have to be honest I have always thought he was reasonably fare, known he is a bit of a numpty, but anyway that has cleared it up for me. Someone mentioned about not listening to SSB have to say I do listen I also spend too much time trawling the boards such as this one, TSFM and even sometimes the nasty RM. Sad I know but enjoy it just the same. Like someone said on this or some other board lads just hark back to their 9 in a row, the money they “appeared” to have, when we had the shabby old ground, no training ground it is chalk and cheese. We are the big bhoys now in every way and hey we will soon have the Celtic quarter where we can all meet, have a drink etc. Nirvana! God Bless the Celts!
13 yrs ago the SFA were concerned at possible links between a Celtic player & a player agency – http://t.co/dDRmbIXBbS
Via twitter.
Majestic Hartson .
Dub ——–
Dubbing with the Observer
Blackboard Jungle Dub
King Tubbys Meets Rockers Uptown.
Pick A Dub.
Dub Store Special .
Ska—–
Ska Bonanza —–The Studio One Ska Years
Ska Boo Da Ba.
Ska Down Jamaica Way..
Various Artists- King Edwards Productions .
Rocksteady –
Duke Reid’s Treasure Chest.
Original 12 -The Best of Delroy Wilson.
Mojo Rocksteady .
Joe Gibbs —–Amalgamated Label –Explosive Rocksteady 67 -73 .
You are also advised to check out all those lovely compendiums / collations and reissues on Blood and Fire and Pressure Sounds
From EdgarBlamm
Hi @ChrisGraham76! Why do you claim to have broken news of Sevco board members posting on Rangers Media? #Exclusive http://t.co/DL4hPffgjk
The bhoy Jinky @ 09.46
Hope it’s just Internet hard men stuff but still you have to hope that family members of the people connected are being monitored in case anything happens.
So the Celtic story could be getting the Hollywood treatment as the Spivconians head down skid row, as their latest snuff movie plays out…karma indeed!
An Oscar would look good in our burgeoning trophy room.
Tinmhan
10:05 on
18 May, 2013
BRTH
The cluster**** stuff was hilarious.
Any more?
—————————————————————————————————————-
Yes more up later and there is a Celtic one that is brilliant.
Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9s1y3JG67A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fvd6DEMfLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sC7YnLHWlU
DownforSam
Thankyou– I started putting a lot of writing on here– although I haven’t added anything new recently due to working on the Willie Wallace book and a piece for Paul Larkin’s latest book.
Though there are a number of thoughts lurking around my head to add to the collection
http://broganrogantrevinoandhogan.wordpress.com/
Cheers
BRTH
BroganRogan
I haven’t been on here much for the last few months. But I always thoroughly enjoyed your posts/stories about your sporting heroes etc. Maybe a strange question? Are they available to read anywhere else? You really should make them more widely available if not. You have a real talent.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000
07:55 on
18 May, 2013
Could this be coming to a cinema near you?????
http://m.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cannes-peter-mullans-paradise-creates-524592
————
a friend was on the flight from new york to glasgow couple of weeks ago and was sitting next to a nice business lady.
they got chatting as you do,
and the lady let it be known she was on her way to meeting with PL and the subject of making a film about Celtic.
thats right Tommy if your looking in, nothing is secret, lol.
ps, they should have kept the school for some authenticity.
BroganRogan
Cheers for the link.
TInytim posted something to this similar on the last page but , while all of this stuff from CF is a brilliant read the SFA will do nothing about this. Absolutely nothing.
Revoke their licence ? Don’t make me laugh.