You and I have been discussing football finances here since 2004. In our early years Celtic lost several million pounds each year, CQN’s call was ‘we must breakeven over any business cycle’, an incredibly controversial view in those times of indulgent bling.
By 2004 Celtic hadn’t added a player who held down a sustained first team place for three years (since John Hartson in 2001). We also lost a talisman that summer. The pressure was on to spend, from the stands and the dug-out, but Brian Quinn, our chairman, had concerns about running at a permanent loss. In the face of considerable criticism from the bling-brigade he stood firm.
Celtic won three of the next four league titles while reaching new territory in the Champions League as others continued to spent beyond their means and exploit unconventional taxation policies, which ultimately saw them liquidated, but while the end game was predictable, most didn’t predict it. This resulted in strife at our club.
Finance was a focus of CQN in the early years when we produced granular analysis of accounts and budgetary forecasting. As we became less of a basket-case the time spent debating money reduced.
We can all talk about strikers and defending, policing and political influences, good corporate governance and the SFA, but if you scratch below the surface of those with many years of CQN behind them, I suspect you’ll find people who can’t resist a football club’s cost and revenue breakdown spreadsheet….
The document which appeared on the internet yesterday on a former football club [let’s call them ExCo] was a joy. To me, anyway. It provided many small details which add up to one or two enormous conclusions.
ExCo forecast current year spend for 2011-12 on cleaning costs to be £380k, electricity at £455k, insurance at £374k, postage and carriage at £146k, IT at £261k, professional fees at £613k and telephone costs at £149k. Stewarding was £593k, policing, £343k, match day ambulance, £89k. They spent £160k on finance salaries and £176 on press office salaries while ticket operation salaries cost £268k. The list is exhaustive, 10 pages of costs detailed.
Operating costs, before items like our old friend, amortisation, and tax (don’t laugh), were predicted to come in just shy of £37m, but the key message in all of this detail, is that if you want to operate a football club which can accommodate circa 40,000 spectators you need an infrastructure which costs around £20m.
The police, building maintenance, insurances, grass seed and everything else has to be budgeted for before you can look at player wages, not to mention transfer fees. £268k might sound like a lot to pay for ticket office staff but if you need to issue tens of thousands of tickets you need fulfilment staff. All those assets: enormous properties, thousands of fans, blanket media attention, can feel like liabilities to the guy with the responsibility to pay for them.
On reading this the overwhelming memory I had was of former Rangers director, Paul Murray, who a year ago told the world that Newco Rangers would not be viable, and he was hoping a Newco would have SPL football back then. New clubs cannot qualify in European competition until after they have completed three years trading (a minimum of four years without Europe).
With no European revenue for four years, Newco would be unable to pay all those ‘fixed’ costs and put a competitive team on the field. A big club can’t survive trapped in a small league with no European revenue.
This is reality. Scotland has one healthy large club and has a dozen or more potentially healthy small ones, but nothing will ever be the same again.
Thanks to everyone who has bought Willie Wallace autobiography. Orders in from Belfast, Blackpool, Bonnybridge, Burntisland and Blackrock. If you order now you will receive a copy signed by the man himself….
Email me if you have an article for CQN Magazine inside of you waiting to get out; celticquicknews@gmail.com.
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big mike
is the celtic quarter not really a triangle ? have they changed the maths.
i think this needs to be squared up.
Does anyone have a summary on what’s going on with the leaked documents and sound-clips and what it all means? Without spending hours trying to piece it all together it’s difficult to follow.
the long wait is over
10:46 on 18 May, 2013
and if all the other clubs in Scotland say or do nothing they are just as complicit
Saint Stivs
10:47 on 18 May, 2013
just a new area for all you octogenarians
Re Charlotte the Harlot
All this stuff is all very well and good but it does nothing other than confirm what was always suspected and known— Green and Whyte are in this up to their necks together.
Yet neither really has access to megafunds and Stockbridge is still there!
So who is really pulling the strings?
Who is the money?
Who will appear from the shadows and claim to be the new broom in the BROOM-LOAN Castle?
Brief visit, out of circulation for next 8 hours or so. From what I’ve gleaned Duff & Duffer badly compromised, did they act in the interests of Creditors?. Does BDO have access to this stuff?. They do now. At the very start of pantomime the only time Craigy Bhoy got rattled was when Hector tried to put a different firm in charge. Once he got Duff & Duffer in he visibly relaxed. I think now we know why. All would have been fairly well only for Chuck’s double cross. Still nobody in MSM taking an interest surprise, surprise. Will we the internet bampots have to fund raise get our own legal team and take on the Establishment ourselves.
The Sevco stuff is no surprise . Bunch of vultures trying to get their beaks into the corpse —-it’s mine / it’s mine !.
I will be astounded of forehead if the SFA revoke their licence.
Touché Saint Stivs!
Saint Stivs
That sounds like mason talk tae me!
Kikinthenakas
I love that phrase ‘astounded of forehead.’
I also like the word pockle and there have been a fair few pocklers over at the ole Big Hoose recently.
SwindlersCSC
Saint Stivs.
I feel we are going round and round with this triangle stuff. Who can level with us and square the circle?
To many people with diametrically opposed agendas.
Bunch of hypotenuses…
Has anyone got any insight to the asbestos problems at ibrox?
Green made a statement that there was no asbestos problems.
All kidding aside, if this is being covered up there is no depths to what is going on there!
https://t.co/8Ka4g1HB17 @BroganRoganTrev just posted this on TSFM. #5wayagreement
Sorry if posted all.
Paul67 playing a blinder as usual.
As Charlotte plays her role we get another interesting end of season,
Will Hearts crash and burn?
Will the hoards march on Hampden again?
Never mind MSM will concentrate on Celtic and all our major problems. ….countdown to Scottish Cup Final then Champions League Qualifiers…
Hope we find a playmaker from somewhere. ..
Tske care everyone and enjoy the moment
Hail Hail
Will the football authorities hsve had enough?
TT
A 35k support comes with significant expenses …..when the ST is at the level theirs is …there is not too much profit to be had
Also a 35k support have expectations and want big signings etc
I think you may have your wish
The Huns IMO …if they continue to exist ….will be in penury for years
So whats the verdict on this 5way-deal ?
No-one got a comment?
Or is this just too much to digest just now?
https://twitter.com/livefootball/status/335698207306817536/photo/1
Former Manchester City manager Roberto Mancini left a message for the fans in the paper
Bamboo
Too much information to take in and digest in appropriate detail to give an adequate viewpoint.
CQN Saturday Naps Competition
reposting, in case anyone missed it earlier…
…for those who are in the CQN Saturday Naps competition, please go back and post your selection at the end of the previous article :
“Mr Ogilvie, you’re going to need a bigger shredder”
Cheers, fleagle
bamboo… i might be wrong but hasn’t this been posted before (a few months ago?)
fleagle1888 – don’t do the naps but have had a nudge in the direction of Jack Luey e/w 2.50 at Thirsk. As my old nana used to say “on your own head be it”
time for a change
Its seems the SFA required sevco -ranglers -whoever they are called to be stripped of several league titles and cups as a condition for the continuing in the SPL.
This was alluded to at the time but it seems here it is in print in an official document.
Charlotte Fakeover publishes
Sevco 5088 purchase agreement
for Rangers (in administration)
Date: 18th May 2013 at 9:28
am
Written by: Joe McHugh |
Comments (3)
Twitter sensation Charlotte Fakeover
has published more documentation
highlighting the links between
Charles Green and Craig Whyte as
they attempted to manage Rangers
pre and post liquidation.
While the SFA’s investigation moves
even slower than the internal Ibrox
inquiry Charlotte Fakeover seems to
have no problem in accessing the key
documents at the heart of the matter
which are likely to see the Ibrox side
have their associate membership
terminated by the SFA.
The validity of the Charlotte Fakeover
documents have still to be confirmed
but to most observers of the downfall
of Rangers there seems little question
about their authenticity.
At the heart of the matter there are
two issues:
a) How administrators Duff and
Phelps appear to be gearing all their
efforts towards Sevco 5088 rather
than creditors
b) How the football authorities were
apparently duped into issuing
associate membership to a club very
clearly linked to Whyte who has a
lifetime ban from Scottish football
The latest lengthy publications
includes a 13 page agreement
between Sevco 5088 and the
company, effectively Duff and Phelps,
which appears to have been signed
by Paul Clark of the administrators on
12th May 2012.
That document covers every details
and eventuality in the Rangers case
under headings such as ‘Loan’,
‘Exclusivity’, ‘Asset Purchase’ and
‘Shortfall Funding’.
The second, and much lengthier
document is titled ‘Sale and Purchase
Agreement between SEVCO 5088
Limited and THE RANGERS FOOTBALL
CLUB PLC (in administration) and THE
ADMINISTRATORS.
This document details 36 different
clauses and eight schedules. The
clauses cover areas such as:
Destruction of Assets, The Intellectual
Property, Claims by the Purchaser
and The SPL Share and the
Membership.
In less than a week Charlotte
Fakeovers has attracted over 8,500
followers with each announcement
being eagerly dissected by internet
bampots worldwide.
With the leaders of the SFA giving the
entire episode a wide berth it looks
like Charlotte Fakeovers and others
will be required to shine torches
while others would prefer to look the
other way hoping that everything
sorts itself out ‘for the good of the
game’.
ItaliaBhoy
I dont think so .Its often stated on here and other sites that we need to get a glimpse of this doc.
the debate about the willo window should have died the day rangers did.
rangers are an example to all who think players on the pitch come before finances off it. rangers died because they gambled on champions league participation, was it worth the risks?
celtic work within a budget and have, imho managed to progress well without the gamble, had rangers not taken the gamble we might have been further on by now, we might have won more etc… or we might be in the same boat i.e. dead.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
celtic fc 2012-13:
reached last 16 of champions league
won the spl
reached Scottish cup final
semi-final of league cup
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
ongoing developments:
commenced work to improve inside of stadium for disabled celtic supporters and ordinary supporters
been granted permission for the celtic triangle, building a new club superstore, museum, café, theatre, ticket office etc… (to begin with)
reduced prices for season tickets for season 2013-14
player recruitment
money made this season has/ will be used to this end
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Celtic’s first team squad:
name: value:
1 Fraser Forster £6 million
2 Adam Matthews £4 million
3 Emilio Izaguirre £4 million
4 Efe Ambrose £2 million
5 Rami Gershon Loan
6 Kevin Wilson £2.5 million
7 Miku Loan
8 Scott Brown £4 million
9 Georgios Samaras £3 million
10 Anthony Stokes £1.5 million
11 Lassad Nouioui £500k
15 Kris Commons £2 million
16 Joe Ledley £3 million
18 Tom Rogic £500k, youngster
20 Paddy McCourt £0
21 Charlie Mulgrew £1 million
23 Mikael Lustig £3 million
24 Lukasz Zaluska £250k
25 Thomas Rogne £0
32 Tony Watt youngster
33 Beram Kayal £3 million
46 Dylan McGeouch youngster
49 James Forrest £2 million
58 Patrik Twardzik youngster
67 Victor Wanyama £10 million
88 Gary Hooper £6 million
team £58 million
a few players will go and a few will come in.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
keep up the good work celtic fc
We have much to thank Brian Quinn CBE for…………….truly.
In order of importance I would offer Brother Walfrid, Willie Malley, Jock Stein, Fergus McCann and finally Brian Quinn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Quinn_(economist)
It was Juninho who asked to be availed of this little pay perk later understood as EBT by the wider audience……and having examined the issue in depth BQ told Juninho’s agents “not on my watch” which would go some way to explain his hasty departure, world cup winner and all.
Fresh back from 3 months offshore in West Africa I wore my 40th Anniversary Lisbon top the day we won the league……….the brand is alive and well and they acknowledge Efe’s nightmare, with only the vaguest of notions about other some club going down almost as fast as the Titanic.
Curiously enough Belfast was its birth place too.
As an aside…….the only way to alleviate the financial problems facing the club is to enlarge the CL format. EVERY club that wins its national league should be admitted to the group stages for it is only fair and reasonable.
This situation is not confined to CFC it applies to Ajax, Feyenoord, Bruges, Malmo, Rosenberg et al.
….PFayr @ 11 05 .
” The Huns IMO …if they continue to exist….will be in penury for years “.
The Huns are in Double Bind land —– they are a corner shop with the overheads of a supermarket . . Somebody has to take down the Simply The Best logo and replace it with Bears Can You Spare A Dime ….
They could Rip it up and start again but their mindset finds that unthinkable . What made them rich is what made them poor .
http://www.scribd.com/doc/142103828/Letter-and-SPA
So they versed it
They rehearsed it
Drip fed it to the news
That Craigy and Challs gave birth to The The Blues…
Bamboo and ItaliaBhoy
It’s the first time I’ve seen this document and I have been trying to follow the secret five-way agreement story for some time. If this draft had been available already, would the petition a lot of us signed have been created?
With regard to authenticity or how close the draft is to the finished agreement, a mainstream journalist could just call Stewart Regan and ask him. Or Neil Doncaster. Or David Longmuir. Or Charles Green. Or all of them. If a bampot asks, he or she will receive nothing but scorn. But they can be asked to confirm or deny by the Herald, the Scotsman, the Trinity Mirror tabloids, the BBC, STV, Channel 4, the Financial Times, the Guardian, the Independent, the Telegraph … All the English papers have a Scottish football correspondent.
The season is nearly over. There is a lot of space to fill. There is a massive story here for anyone who wants it.
Morning Lhads
I received a second letter this morn from James Kelly MSP regarding handling of Green
Brigade at the Gallowgate.
Mr Kelly has sent letters of reply from Stephen House(chief con) and R Cunningham.
Chief constable cannot comment due to ongoing complaints,he also writes
“I note that your letter refers to a ‘significant number of constituents’and I would make it
clear to these individuals that they can contact the police direct to raise their own
concerns and complaints at any time.”
================================
Why didn’t we think of that? This whole kerfuffle could all have been sorted by now.
Aye right :O) HH
have a nice day bhoys and ghirls
hail hail
In my opinion, exactly the same applies to Charlotte’s web documents.
There are a dozen names of business figures in those documents and emails.
Any mainstream journalist, and not just the football writers, could ask Paul Clark, Gary Withey, Mike McGill, Donald Muir, David Murray even if these are real. Did Paul Clark really sign that 13-page agreement?
Joe McHugh says: “The validity of the Charlotte Fakeover documents have still to be confirmed.”
This is correct, but we don’t need to launch an archaeological dig to get the confirmation. Somebody just needs to phone one of those guys up and ask.
I work for tiny publications covering interesting but tiny business activities. If this related to one of our industries, we’d have had “confirm or deny” responses within an hour. And, I repeat, we are tiny.
SoT
Absolutely ….their supremacist mindset will prevent any practical approach to their problems
sipsini said @
11:02 on 18 May, 2013
Has anyone got any insight to the asbestos problems at ibrox?
Green made a statement that there was no asbestos problems.
All kidding aside, if this is being covered up there is no depths to what is going on there!
Don’t take this the wrong way, but unfortunately there is no asbestos problem at Ipox. I would like there to be just to add to their woes though of course don’t want anyone’s health threatened.
About 10 years ago the then stadium manager put out to tender an asbestos survey. The guy who got the gig owned his own asbestos removal comapny and was totally astounded that he got the contract to do the survey, given that his christian name and surname left no one in any doubt about his cultural and religious background. Upon completion he concluded that there was no problem there with asbestos. This guy is related to me so you can take this one to the bank.
VP
Not as daft as you might think ….polis hate having to deal with complaints
VOGUEPUNTER
Be grateful your MSP didnae shop you to the cops for having the temerity to complain about them.
Celtic_First 11:38
I had it confirmed yesterday that they have called.
hen1rik, 10:36
The Sevco board members posting on Rangers Media story may prove to be even more interesting than initially though t…