Alasdair Lamont’s article for BBC this evening after meeting SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, is bound to provoke debate. The article is titled, “Newco Rangers could avoid sanctions from SPL”, although that claim is not supported by any direct quote from Doncaster. It could be that Doncaster made a supporting comment which wasn’t covered in the article, or that Alasdair is extrapolating from Doncaster’s comment that he is “not entirely sure why a distinction is made between the two routes [CVA or a Newco] out of administration”.
Before we open on what Doncaster actually said, it’s worth pointing out that he has never previously indicated that a Newco was likely to gain access to the SPL without penalty, despite being asked this question directly on a number of occasions. Indeed, he has proposed a number of penalties for such an eventuality, although any decision will now rest with a general meeting of the clubs, which he will not have a vote at.
To what Doncaster said:
“Newco is typically the way businesses in general escape from administration.”
Oh no it’s not. Businesses, in general, conclude their period of administration either by emerging with a CVA or by going out of business. The swathes of business failures across the UK in recent years has seen only a tiny percentage phoenix as a Newco. This statement is erroneous and misleading.
Doncaster added:
“I am not entirely sure why a distinction is made between the two routes out of administration.”
Let me explain, Mr Doncaster. In Scottish football history, no club has ever come out of administration as a Newco. Ever. Third Lanark, Airdrieonians and Gretna all failed to achieve a CVA and went out of business. Morton, Clydebank (now Airdrie United), Motherwell, Dundee (twice) and Livingston (twice), all achieved a CVA and remained in football.
Mr Doncaster must think that we are all daft, have no access to Scottish football records and have a complete ignorance of how “businesses in general” operate. He wishes to provide a Newco-Rangers with direct access to the top league in Scottish football, the first time anything like this has ever happened. Perhaps being frank with us on this matter would be advisable.
Even if I was of a mind to agree with Doncaster that rules should be changed to allow Newco direct access to the SPL, his feeble attempts to convince fans of the merits of this idea would leave me ruing the inadequacy of his plan’s execution.
All of this will be a welcome distraction from the main issue for Doncaster. The SPL allowed last season to conclude without letting clubs or fans know if Rangers competed with ineligible players. They have been in possession of the information required for over six weeks now but have no intention of letting fans know the outcome until after Newco is voted into the league.
It’s too late now. Doncaster has had his chance to report and his inquiry has failed to do so. It has now been taken out of his hands. He has failed you and all Scottish football fans.
It’s time for football executives to relinquish power and for the old media, the fans, the new media and the authorities to take control.
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503 Comments- Pages:
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Paul67,
“It’s too late now. Doncaster has had his chance to report and his inquiry has failed to do so. It has now been taken out of his hands. He has failed you and all Scottish football fans.”
Has the SFA (of all people) taken it out of Doncaster’s corrupt hands? That would be marvellous but my money would be on UEFA.
You introduced the old comment of never interrupt an enemy when it is making a mistake. Celtic officially staying silent, whilst so many of its dilligent supporters keep heaping on the pressure through their intelligence in taking apart their cover ups and secrecy, is a master stroke.
Celtic40me,
It was James Forrest originally posted the information, he recieved from some of the supporters who questioned Lawwell.
I dont think Owens ma was there.
petec
Beautifully observed.
I just want to say a big Hail Hail to my very good friend, serial lurker and very occasional poster charliecooksleftpeg…looking forward to our days out at CP and beyond in 2012/2013.
Enjoy Wednesday mate…:)
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
nor his granny
NO TO NEW CLUB
NO TO DONCASTER
petec on 21 May, 2012 at 22:26 said:
”Celtic officially staying silent, whilst so many of its dilligent supporters keep heaping on the pressure through their intelligence in taking apart their cover ups and secrecy, is a master stroke.”
Maybe. Maybe not.
We’ll know soon enough.
Magnificentseven
It’s suicide either way.
The nuclear option is suicide with a fighting chance.
The doing nothing option is certain death.
Doing nothing is not an option IMO,
Kitalba
Whilst no to Newco in the SPL is the righteous answer, I can think of a number of conditions/measures that if my rejection of them meant I could no longer support Celtic, would lead to my accepting that integrity had not been sacrificed.
It would all depend on the severity of the conditions and what Celtic were able to acheive if outnumbered in the vote count.
This is no bad:
http://www.leapmotion.com
I’ve just watched Doncaster on BBC news…FFS!!!
Nobody can take this idiot seriously – as P67 points out factually wrong and tactically inept. He’s made his personal preference too transparent too early.
Expect major resistance to this blatant and amateurish attempt to bolster old prejudicial practices..
in a word: IDIOT!
EDB – an attention seeker indeed – I’m very poor at it though……but good point – I will e-mail Paul.
Mr Doncaster on BBC spouting nonesense there. Its simply lies.
Exiled Tim – I think if Celtic were going to tackle this properly they would have done so before now. However I think they need to be honest with us now. Surely they arent hanging on for season tickets? Anyone, Anyone, Bueller?
Canamalar – you get the prize for the most depressing post I have ever read on CQN. Though I am guessing you are correct.
Lennybhoy – used to be very active at Cowglen in National Savings – did all the protesting etc etc. Good days.
Magnificentseven – if this pans out the way mad Doncaster wants its Celtic who will come out of this more damaged than Rangers mark 2. And all the other clubs too. Its basically the end as you say.
I have a huge amount of respect for James Forrest and if he’d asked PL himself and got the same response then fair enough. However the very first question that springs to mind is this – why spend months saying nothing, then give a detailed explanation to a group of fans that happen to ask the question. It just seems a little unlikely to be honest.
Auldheid,
do the spl have to apply the same rules as the sfa on FFP
do the hun face the same charges from the spl, they were recently found guilty off
THE EXILED TIM on 21 May, 2012 at 22:32 said:
Magnificentseven
It’s suicide either way.
The nuclear option is suicide with a fighting chance.
The doing nothing option is certain death.
Doing nothing is not an option IMO
I agree….the nuclear option is the only option!! and the house of cards will fall
why wait till Wednesday..?
if it was a mortal blow why wait till then to show it…?
just call me Thomas…
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire:
Correct mate. That was what the people who spoke to him that night were told.
But I will say this; things have changed, even since that night. I believe that some form of “straw poll” had been taken by the SPL chairmen and a consensus had already been reached. I suspect Celtic were considering whether or not it was worth waging a one club war.
It will not be a one club war now. That is assured. Rangers behaviour has angered other clubs, and a NewCo will be resisted by others.
I suspect Rangers are now in a fight they can’t win. The choices facing them now are absolutely ghastly. The notion that a NewCo can keep any of the good bits of Rangers whilst dumping all the bad bits is just ridiculous. I suspect Celtic’s position has changed more than once in the course of this … and I suspect our lawyers are being kept very busy.
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon,
I hope the Board are on the same wavelength and I myself trust they are given Paul’s comments over the last year or so.
ernie lynch
You are correct, we will indeed know soon enough and Thank God for that, hopefully our custodians have put them firmly in their place because we are the only ones who could in this country.
NegAnon
However I think they need to be honest with us now. Surely they arent hanging on for season tickets?
Don’t know if it makes any difference to you but heard on today’s radio we had overtook SB sales from this time previous year so far….
Hail Hail
NegAnon2,
put me in a terrible mood when I originally read it :o)
NegAnon2 on 21 May, 2012 at 22:35 said:
I’m stuck with what the club can say about this to be honest. They’ve leaked through appropriate channels (Paul67) that they’ll vote against NewCo. Beyond that any statement is all ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ and that kind of statement is just a minefield of potential problems. Just ask Duff and Phelps – they’ve been at it for months and they’re still making a mess of it.
NegAnon2
sorry for not coming back to you sooner, you choose the charity and i’ll match your donation. get my email address from paul67 and let me know what you decide.
blantyretim on 21 May, 2012 at 22:38 said:
I think we might be expecting to much from this doc on Wednesday. However even if it adds a little more to the mounting evidence that they are indeed, cheaters of the highest order, it’s to be welcomed.
JF,
our manager repeatedly telling the world he wants them playing us next season, does not bode well IMO.
blantyretim on 21 May, 2012 at 22:38:
Doubt no more my friend, why it is Wednesday, I cannot answer that one. However, just as somebody said you have seen and you believe but there are those who believe and will not see (obviously paraphrasing)…
I believe, you will my friend and many others will by Wednesday.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Hold tight, nearly there.
In any sting there is much distraction, deflection and disinformation. Without it, the danger is that the mark will perceive what is happening and therefore not fall for the scam.
The sting, when it comes needs to be fast, very fast and nailed on so that the mark has no chance of recovery on discovering he has been mugged.
Nearly all the build up is complete, the careful preparation, the storylines, the confidence building, the key messages. Question is are you going to be able to spot the ACTUAL sting and hold onto your wallet?
Perhaps your wallet has already been rifled and put back, after all, renewal date has passed and you’ve forwarded your cash already.
Next question: Do you know what the real sting is?
Is it dumping debt?
Is it buying for a penny and selling for £20m?
Is it buying future seats only to find they don’t exist?
Is it a newco with the oldco brand rights?
Is it entry to the SFL?
Is it entry to the SPL?
Is it all of these or none of these?
This sting has been a long time coming. How many ‘players’ have had to be involved? Is everyone now on the stage and people previously on the stage but now absent been a player?
Watch the pea. You know which cup it’s under………….. don’t you. Don’t you??
When you asked to watch closely, very closely…… that’s the time you need to draw back look around and spot the wide receiver.
Can they pull it off? Think we might be about to find out………….
HH
Highly unlikely in the extreme, that Peter Lawell would discuss Celtic’s position at any informal event, with anyone.
Don’t you think?
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire:
Neil Lennon sees a weak Rangers team with a useless coach, and thinks he, as our manager, can have the best of all worlds; whipping ths skin off them, running up a cricket score, and watching McCoist squirm.
I can’t blame him for it, but as much fun as it would be, I disagree with him.
I think getting my wish is more likely than him getting his.
weeminger on 21 May, 2012 at 22:41 said:
See even if Celtic are publily keeping schtum, why has nobody (eg Eric Riley) had a word with Doncaster and just asked him to shut up? Surely he must have some kind of support from the rest of the SPL board.
gorbalstam on 21 May, 2012 at 22:47 said:
Unless of course we (the club) want rid of him. He’s tying the rope around his own neck at the moment.
bt
It’s just tv scheduling too much to say in an hour that can’t be found anywhere else – also guaranteed themselves nice viewing figures – what they used to call ‘appointment to view tv’ in the olden days :-) Mark Daly did a decent job in his Craig Whyte prog in October. That was the start of the end. This could be the end.
bournesouprecipe on 21 May, 2012 at 22:46 said:
”Highly unlikely in the extreme, that Peter Lawell would discuss Celtic’s position at any informal event, with anyone.”
What’s even more unlikely is that it wouldn’t be plastered all over the papers.
I’m sceptical, and said so at the time.
JF,
do you think the people who got in touch with you about Lawwells comments, could have been, aske to spread disinformation
Aberdeen FC may as well go into admin, and shelve its debt
@AberdeenChange
The SFA and the SPL have known about all this corruption and cheating for years and years and years and have done nothing about it which makes them complicit and directly, personally and individually responsible for what is better known as fraud. There is no possible way that they could not have known what (players wages) were as it was common knowledge what footballers were being paid at RFC(IA) due to press and television coverage.
If the SPL want to know if there were players that were not registered properly then they only have to look up their own records. They do not have to ask for the members of the SPL to disclose any of their files. They have been sitting on this bombshell hoping someone else lights the fuse wire on what was formally known as RFC(IA).
No one body or person wants to pull the plug but everyone is standing back waiting for someone to light the blue torch paper.
Auld Neil Lennon heid
I would hope that if the integrity of the game was comprimised, to accomodate a fraud, despite the best efforts of Celtic, then Celtic would have the personal integrity and the balls (regardless of cost) to seek justice in the courts (again regardless of cost). They after all a PLC with all the inherent rights and protected by some rather unbending laws. Or are we to accept that rules and regulations can be diluted to succour bloated fraudsters? And we are to pay for the privilage?
Today might not yet be the best day for Celtic to speak out against distortion of the league we signed up to, but if the runaway train that is the probity-busters is allowed to continue – unchecked – then who knows what the wreck that is looming will throw up. Scottish football could be frozen in a litigation glazier to the detriment of all… because of one.
I think it’s unlikely that Doncaster would say such controversial things without the backing of his board.
He knows that anything he says is going to get attention and provoke a reaction. Why court controversy unnecessarily?
bournesouprecipe:
It’s not commonly recognised, or accepted, but Peter Lawwell talks to the fans as much as he can, and frequently shares information with them on occasion. I’ll tell you all a story, which is 100% true, as it no longer matters.
Some years ago, when the media were telling all and sundry that Scott Brown was joining Kevin Thomson at Rangers – despite big interest from England – the story that Celtic were interested was treated as a joke when it broke in one newspaper. Thomson had already signed for the Huns, and there was not a journo in the land who thought Brown was going anywhere else.
Lawwell had a meeting with the CSA executive and had an off-the-record chat to them about Scott Brown. I am paraphrasing, but essentially he told the boys on the committee Celtic were “determined” to sign Brown, and that “if it comes to an auction we will win.” He also said Brown himself was open to the move to Celtic, and would have preferred Parkhead to Ibrox. The only question was when the deal would be done, as we were adamant we would get him.
I told a couple of people that story at the time, and most didn’t believe a word of it. The press was hollering that he was Ibrox bound. His agent was telling Derek Johnstone a deal in principle had been agreed with Hibs …
Peter Lawwell and Celtic worked away behind the scenes, quietly and confidently, and their assurance was such Peter Lawwell felt content sharing that information to a small gathering of fans. He knew some of them would talk about it outside the circle, but it didn’t worry him one bit.
Celtic are much more open with the supporters reps than many people are aware. As I say, on that night Peter Lawwell told certain people that it was a done deal, and that Celtic were working to assure the proper level of sanctions. I would not have expected him to expound on legal strategy which may or may not have been being explored. But he believed Rangers being voted back was a done deal.
I believe that position looks less likely with every day that passes, and there are indications that lawyers are working hard behind the scenes.