SPFL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, is clear on the subject of offensive singing at football games: “It remains the SPFL’s position that if it can be established that clubs have done everything required in overall management of the event pre-match, during the game and post-match then they have no case to answer”.
This may be the case, but if clubs fail to communicate appropriate instructions to fans after one transgression, which is quickly followed by a second transgression, Doncaster’s defence is moot. The club has failed to do “everything required” pre-match and post-match, and is guilty under the rules, if applied.
Doncaster has employed a rhetorical technique. When faced with a difficult scenario, make a statement which is in itself true, but the parameters of which do not match the scenario.
The chief executive of the Scottish Professional Football League’s comments this morning appear like an attempt to protect a member club from the League’s own rules. He is paid to ensure rules are applied, not negated.
It is no business of his to defer responsibility to the police, or the Justice Ministry, which concocted this inept Offensive Behaviour Act in order to “equalise” criminality, where it didn’t exist, but will not lift a finger on this issue.
What do you know about Andy McAtee? He signed for Celtic from Mossend Hibs in 1910 and left in 1924, having played 438 games on the right wing, scoring 75 goals. He won six league titles and four Scottish Cups and was one of the earliest Celtic heroes. During the Great War he fought in the Alps, and in Haig’s bloody field in the Somme.
When he, and other members of our first genuinely great team, retired, Celtic found it impossible to replace them. We didn’t win another six titles until Inter manager, Helenio Herrera, watched our title win in May 1967.
The Celtic Graves Society mark his final resting place at Kilsyth Cemetery (G5 0TA) at 12:00 on Saturday 28 February. After a graveside blessing, there will be a Q&A with Jim Craig, Tom Boyd and Pat McCluskey, at The Curling Stone pub, High Craigends, Kilsyth. If you can make it along and support the great work of the Society, get there.
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Auldheid
Maybe Shred-it, Glasgow, (unpaid) got the record book you mention.
Maybe the Newclub was never asked to keep such a record.
Paul,
I suppose a boycott of Doncaster’s LCF would be out of the question!
Just to raise National awareness, like ! : > )
Paul.
To whom is Doncaster answerable ?
There’s a pattern developing here.
Are Celtic going to question any drivel
this man spouts or is it a case of hear no evil speak no evil ?
Mea Culpa
12:54 on
24 February, 2015
In any other country in the world, Doncaster & Co would be slammed by the press.
But, this is Scotland.
Run by the establishment, for the establishment club.
It all goes to show just how massively they cocked things up.
To have every authority in the land protecting you, doing their utmost to ensure you succeed, and you still manage to go bust.
Quite astonishing.
=============================================
I have witnessed this corruption for the 57 years I have been on the planet and my forebears before me………….Sadly, I’ve grown to accept that this corruption is interwoven in the fabric of Scottish society that only outsiders will drag us out into the light.
What really astounds (and saddens) me however, is that there are good Tims who think, even in the light of this daily charade of rotten institutionalised bigotry, Independence is a good idea.
Hamilton Tim
This institution is formed by persons desiring, to the utmost of their power, to support and defend His Majesty King William the IV., the Protestant religion, the laws of the country, the succession to the throne in his Majesty’s illustrious House, being Protestants, as well as for the defence of their own persons and property, and the maintenance of the public peace; and for these purposes the members hold themselves obliged, when called upon, to be at all times ready to assist the civil and military powers in the just and lawful discharge of their duty. They associate also in honour of King William III. Prince of Orange, whose name they will perpetually bear, as supporters of his glorious memory, and the true religion by law established in this United Kingdom.
This is exclusively a Protestant Association; yet detesting an intolerant spirit, it admits no persons into its brotherhood who are not well known to be incapable of persecuting, injuring or upbraiding any one on account of his religious opinion: its principle is, to aid and assist loyal subjects of every religious persuasion, by protecting them from violence and oppression.
An Orangeman should have a sincere love and veneration for his Almighty Maker, a firm and steadfast faith in the Saviour of the world, convinced that he is the only Mediator between a sinful creature and an offended Creator. His disposition should be humane and compassionate; his behaviour kind and courteous. He should love rational and improving society, faithfully regard the Protestant religion, and sincerely desire to propagate its doctrine and precepts. He should have a hatred to cursing and swearing, and taking the name of God in vain; and he should use all opportunities of discouraging those shameful practices. Wisdom and prudence should guide his action; temperance and sobriety, honesty and integrity direct his conduct; and the honour and glory of his King and country, should be the motives of his exertions.
1. The Orange Institution consists of an unlimited number of brethren, whose admission is not regulated by any other test than those of their religion, character and principles.
2. No person who at any time has been a Roman-catholic can be admitted into the institution, except by special application to the grand lodge, or grand committee, accompanied by certificates and testimonials, transmitted through the grand secretary of his county, which shall be so perfectly satisfactory as to produce an unanimous vote on the occasion.
Declaration of an Orangeman.
‘I, A.B., do so solemnly and voluntarily declare, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty the King; and that I will to the utmost of my power support and maintain the laws and constitution of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, as established by William the Third of glorious memory, and the succession to the throne in his Majesty’s illustrious House, being Protestant.
‘I do declare that I am not, nor ever was, a Roman-Catholic or Papist; that I was not, am not, or ever will be, a member of the society called “United Irishmen” , nor any other society or body of men, who are enemies to his Majesty, or the glorious constitution of these realms; and that I never took the oath to that or any other treasonable society.
‘I declare that I will, as far as in my power lies; assist the magistrates and civil authorities of these kingdoms in the lawful execution of their official duties, when called upon. That I will be true and faithful to every brother Orangeman in all just actions; that I will not wrong, or know him to be wronged or injured, without giving due notice thereof, if in my power. And I solemnly declare that I will always conceal, and never will reveal either part or parts of what is now to privately communicated to me, unless to a brother Orangeman, knowing him to be so by strict trial and due examination; or from the word of a brother Orangeman, or until I shall be authorized so to do by the proper authorities of the Orange Institution. That I will not write it, indite it, cut carve, stain, stamp, or engrave it, or cause it to be done, lest any part thereof might be known. And lastly, I do declare that I have not, to my knowledge or belief, been proposed or rejected in, or expelled from any other Orange Lodge.
Hope that helps your research :-)
HH
Roy Croppie
I was at a hun riot once that didnt get much publicity ,I think because it happened a good half hour before kick-off . London in the 60’s a pre-season testimonial Arsenal v the then rangers. A hun hoard, laden down with their carry-outs gathered behind the North Bank goal. As the home fans turned up to claim their “end” it kicked off big-time. The huns had plenty of ammunition in the form of bottles. They rained the bottles down on the gooners and also threw them at the roof girders showering the arsenal boys with glass. The home support retreated leaving the victorious bunch of huns to wave their union jack and seronade the londoners with the billy boys etc.
Joe Beltrami RIP
Dear BSR
24/02/14
Ref: Clyde 1 Superscoreboard
Thank-you for your email regarding Clyde 1 Superscoreboard. We take on board all feedback and like to hear from our listeners.
Your email is about comments made by one of our pundits Hugh Keevins regarding singing and sectarianism at football matches in Scotland.
I can tell you that at no time did Hugh say the Irish national anthem is sectarian and nor did he mean that.
He was merely asking the relevance of singing a country’s national anthem at a European football match.
He has clarified his comments in his weekly column for Clyde1.com and you can find that column here.
http://www.clyde1.com/vip/keevins/moved-on-but-not-forward/
Kind regards
And to think – all this bigotry, sectarianism, anti-irish racism, anti-catholic hatred born, bred, nurtured, grown and still supported under the British Union. Royaly shafted and supported by Tims to.
MWD said AYE
I’m left wondering about a few points after reading this – in no particular order.
1) When the priest asked, “What religion are you?”, what kind of answer was he expecting? Hindu? Sikh? Muslim?
2) “Protestantism” is obviously not a religion. I understand the term to have evolved as a loose description of those who originally objected to some of the ideology / practices of the Roman Catholic Church. Any definition therefore of protestantism, will be a broad and somewhat subjective one.
3) There is an assumption that to be a Christian, one has to be “baptised into” a particular church. Could someone enlighten me as to which part of the bible this comes from? A quote would be good….
4) I consider myself a Christian. (Just not particularly devout.) I’m what can be described as a Protestant. I was “baptised” in the Free Church if Scotland. (Whatever baptised / christened actually means.) My children attended church and Sunday school there when they were young. None of them were baptised because no-one, no-one, could explain with any kind of logic to me or my wife as to why we / they should.
5) I sometimes ask: I’m sure Hitler was baptised as a baby and what difference did that make?
6) In football terms, a “hun” to me is a particular type of Rangers supporter.
ChippyBhoy
13:02 on
24 February, 2015
=================================
Hun is not a sectarian term.
Doncaster says “the vast majority of decent fans…share a strong degree of anger and despair…”
Eh?
Does that mean there are some decent fans who don’t?
The word decent needs to be re-defined if that is the case.
P67 – you’ve given the wrong postcode there for Kilsyth cemetery.
Sorry,
I was referring to this….
connaire12
12:17 on 24 February, 2015
I have lost count of the number of times the word Protestant has appeared in comments on this blog in the last few days. What is meant by that word in this country? Perhaps the following story might help to underline the confusion in the minds of a vast majority of our fellow Scots.
I know of a situation where a priest preparing a couple for marriage asked them what religion they were. The girl said Catholic and her future spouse replied that he was a Protestant. On being asked which form of Protestantism he had been baptised into, the young man was confused. To help the priest asked him if he was a Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalian, etc. Again confusion, so the priest simply asked “Which Church were you baptised in?” The reply was simply, “Ah wisnae baptised anywhere.”
Therein lies the problem in this country. People with no religion claim to be protestant. In fact what they are saying whether disdainfully or otherwise is, “Am no a Catholic”.
Scotland the most bigoted little shithole in the universe and many on here wanted it to be an independent country ffs,run by the orange bigot salmond
Jungle Jim (12:48)…
Boerrigter (if unfit)
Fisher O`Connell Ambrose Waters
Tonev McGregor Fasan Rogic Wakaso
Scepovic
Hawd the bus , can you prove that 70percent ? If yes please do
If not get it deleted.
Answer received from SSB today in response to my email. The back pedalling is not surprising not surprising.
“Dear J.G L.
24/02/14
Ref: Clyde 1 Superscoreboard
Thank-you for your email regarding Clyde 1 Superscoreboard. We take on board all feedback and like to hear from our listeners.
Your email is about comments made by one of our pundits Hugh Keevins regarding singing and sectarianism at football matches in Scotland.
I can tell you that at no time did Hugh say the Irish national anthem is sectarian and nor did he mean that.
He was merely asking the relevance of singing a country’s national anthem at a European football match.
He has clarified his comments in his weekly column for Clyde1.com and you can find that column here.
http://www.clyde1.com/vip/keevins/moved-on-but-not-forward/
Kind regards
Lorraine Herbison
Head of News and Sport, Scotland
Bauer City Network | Northern England & Scotland
T: 0141 565 2345
M: 07711 161 759
Move along Timmy
If it’s only a minority why no arrests?
Unless there was too many to arrest, well which one is it Mr Doncaster?
Those Orange Order rules seem quite reasonable.
Where can I get an application form and will I get a free sash?
Re Kilsyth Cemetery
It’s a straightforward trip for non-drivers (e.g. me). I worked it out for Jimmy Quinn’s grave-side commemoration.
From city-centre, ten minute train to Croy then either a twenty five minute stroll in our February sunshine over the canal or five minutes by the regular bus service.
Tell you what….going by the young GB bhoys I met on sunday.
Glasgow will always be Green&White.
No mention of religion.
Those young bhoys love Celtic….and they are a credit to their parents.
Its great to see how much those kids love Celtic.
Magic.
HH
one off 70 % dafty
irony is not your strong point, eh?
nor Bawsmans!
MWd said AYE
Doncaster makes a statement,.
And it’s Celtic to blame for what he said?
How does that work?
Or is it just a hatered for the board thingie?
TD67
Hows it going?….and you are right…..whats their bigotry got to do with Celtic.
HH
So the Green Brigade are actually Celtic supporters?
I’ll sleep tonight :-)
Dungcaster by name, dung caster by nature.
Paul67,
It’s ridiculous that no one in the Scottish media has pulled up Doncaster up on his comments.
“It remains the SPFL’s position that if it can be established that clubs have done everything required in overall management of the event pre-match, during the game and post-match then they have no case to answer”.
Leads to that obvious question, “What have Newco Rangers done to combat sectarian chanting since last week? What have they done since they were formed for that matter?”
I’m unaware of any club/company statements denouncing sectarian chanting. At least that would have been a token effort they could point to. As far as I’m aware they have done nothing about the problem so that completely negates Doncaster’s defence.
Another problem with Doncaster’s statement is that even were it true that Newco Rangers were doing everything in their power to stamp out the chanting, his words give the fans the green light to do what they want. “The club won’t be punished so we can sing what we like”.
An imbecile so far out his depth it stopped being funny a long time ago.
Oldco Rangers did make progress on the issue. Their reasoning may have been along the lines of “it damages the club” rather than “it’s morally wrong” to sing anti-Catholic songs but progress was made none the less. The Billy Boys was almost cut out altogether at games.
Now it is back with a vengance, we have returned to the 1980’s with that mob.
As far as the word “hun” is concerned I stopped using when Oldco liquidated. “Sevconian” is surely a more appropriate and less offensive term.
Tom McLaughlin
Now, Now Tom….come on be positive:)
HH
Hi Paul67,
Interesting line from Mr Doncaster… Everything required.
Now Chelsea FC had a problem in Paris with a few of their lunitic element.
In general the Stamford Bridge Club has tried to identify those who were responsible for racial abuse, racist chanting by uniting with the French Police, The Paris Metro, the London Met Police and examining any video footage and talking to witnesses within and outwith Chelsea.
This has led to a number of banning orders and enabled the club to handover pertinent information on those potentially involved.
Is this everything required? Well no but it’s a great start…
Do you know what the Ibrox Club are doing to fulfil the post event “everything required” criteria.
And has Mr Doncaster seen all those steps?
Hail Hail
the green man
Yes, all good, and I havent a clue what it has to do with us, if the country accepts it, so be it, as CFC keep saying, we look after cfc, others do as they do,.
” When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less ”
Humpty Dumpty – Through The Looking Glass
Alasdair Maclean. I am sure that as you have raised a family you have looked into all the reasons given for baptism and found that you did not find any of the reasons given made sense to you or your wife.As this is a football blog I would agree to your right to hold the view you have but just in case you want to research the reason for baptism there are many fine sites on the net where you will find answers and debate which may or may not give you the answer your looking for.In my own case I regard myself as a Christian first and a Roman Catholic second I try myself to be a good follower of Christ which is for me not easy but very worth while but I believe in the UK practicing Christians may well be in the minority. H.H.
G65 0TA Kilsyth cemetary postcode
TD67
It makes me sick…every time they try to pull this.
There is only one bigoted team in Glasgow…..Sevco.
HH
Rangers are well and truly deid
unfortunately that are still a great many huns out there trying hard to uphold their old traditions.
Songs & Slogans
The Nazis in !920s & 30s Germany dehumanised Jews, Roma, Communists and other “undesirables” using songs and slogans, helped by an establishment scared of a possible Russian style revolution. All that was required was for the “respectable” to do nothing.
We all know what followed.
The bigoted songsheet of the hordes dehumanises the Irish/Catholic section of the Scottish population in exactly the same manner and there have indeed been violent, sometimes fatal, attacks on Irish/Catholics/Celtic fans. If these songs and slogans are not stopped quickly, the pathological hatred being stoked will result in people being killed; no doubt about it. The fact that thems are not in their “rightful place” atop Scottish football is fuelling the hatred even further. We can see from their websites how angry they are and how desperate they have become.
History will show that today’s SMSM have been as complicit in the civil unrest about to hit Scotland as the were establishment throughout Europe in the rise of Hitler in Nazi Germany.
If this City/Country want to go down the road they are going? Let them, I want no part of it, it will only shed the light on what it truly is, and it certainly wasent the one we had the commonwealth games in,that two weeks was how this city should be, now we are back where we where, 17 century M O.
Great init.