SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, appeared on BBC Radio Scotland this evening strongly pitching the appropriateness of a Newco to be voted into the SPL. He gave a couple of examples to back up his position and used gaps in his interviewer’s understanding to paint a strong picture.
While he accepted that a Newco had never assumed a position in an elevated league in Scotland he gave two examples of it happening in England and even went as far as suggesting that “going down the Newco route” was the normal way to exit administration now.
There is a crucial difference between the examples Doncaster gave and all other examples, including Rangers – over 75% of creditors agreed to a Creditors Voluntary Arrangement.
A note of explanation first:
Football clubs are free to change their corporate structure by application to their association. This has been done my most clubs over the years, in particular in the 19th century when they went from being private clubs to incorporated limited companies. There was another wave when the PLCs arrived. Celtic went through this process in 1897 when it became a limited company and again in 1994 when it became a PLC (Celtic PLC remains the same legal entity they became in 1897 with the same company number).
This facility to change your corporate structure has never been a charter to ditch your debts. Financially distressed football clubs in England often change corporate structure when subject to a takeover. The new boss comes in with the company he used to fund his takeover (like Craig Whyte’s Wavetower) then applies to the FA to associate the club with his new company. If over 75% of creditors support a CVA, this is in order and is always granted. The old company is then usually wound up.
Back to Neil Doncaster. He gave two examples: Crystal Palace and Plymouth Argyle.
Creditors of Crystal Palace agreed a CVA proposed by CPFC 2010 in June 2010. Following this, CPFC 2010 took ownership of the club and successfully applied to assume its league share.
Mr Doncaster may have been concentrating on matters elsewhere on 6 May last year when Plymouth Argyle’s creditors agreed to a CVA. The same day Craig Whyte completed his takeover of Rangers. Following this creditors agreement, the club was bought by the Akkeron Group.
Precedent in Scotland and in England is clear: if you get the agreement of your creditors (by a CVA, for example), the football authorities have no issues. If you don’t get agreement with your creditors, you’re finished.
Before I get asked the Leeds United question one more time…. 75.2% of Leeds United’s shareholders agreed to a CVA but on the 28th and final day creditors were allowed to act, HMRC objected. The Football League used emergency provisions to authorise Leeds share transfer as the CVA had sufficient support. HMRC dropped their appeal soon thereafter.
There is little we can do about controlling the debate on radio. Neil Doncaster has pinned his colours to the mast and tonight agreed to be interviewed by a journo who is also financially heavily conflicted towards supporting a Rangers-Newco in the SPL.
Doncaster also appears to have sprung the same misinformation on the organiser of the SPL Survey, who the SPL chief was very dismissive off tonight, implying the organiser accepted his view after he explained “the facts”.
This is the bottom line for you and for Doncaster. Crystal Palace, Plymouth Argyle and Leeds United all convinced over 75% of creditors to support a CVA.
Here is a list of the teams in Scotland and England (in modern times) who failed to agree a CVA:
Chester City
Farsley Celtic
Rushden and Diamonds
Airdrieonians
Gretna
All of them dissolved. None emerged as a Newco retaining their league status (although Airdrieonians fans bought and moved Clydebank FC).
This man – Doncaster – has no right to present you or SPL clubs with a selected version of English clubs history which plays fast and loose with the most important fact of all – did 75% of creditors agree to a CVA?
Precedents are clear and 100% consistent. Get 75% of creditors on side or start supporting another football team.
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ranjurz agreeing a CVA is like me jumping from a plane and then agreeing that I need a parachute. The result is the same, even if everyone else agrees that I need one and they decide to give me one, it’s too late, I’m splattered on the pavement.
Sabre67 on 30 April, 2012 at 23:22
Read Paul Mac’s blog on how they could get away with it, sobering to say the least.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/
TET,
I’d guess you’re correct. There will be a few scapegoats being lined up as we type. Maybe that’s when the house of cards begins to tumble, when they begin to squeal.
crushed nuts
hope your ok put a parachute on n get to bed.
I’m gettin to the age where I’d rather trust a parachute than a fart
StarryP
Aye, we have been seeking the truth since time began, we are still seeking the truth mi amigo, and they still swim free and get fatter.
There will always be the ones thrown to the lions, the powers will be what they will be, the powers.
I don’t want to be like them, all I ask for is a level playing field when it comes to my football club, that’s no to much to ask for is it ?
We are talking a game here, a game that enthrawls us, a game that is part of our lifes, make it fair and square, nothing more nothing less.
if it comes to pass and they are back in spl as new co then the choice of
sporting integrity has lost, the next question is are we as a club and supporters
going to participate in a league that has no integrity?
Perhaps we should organise a march against the SPL.
I bet we would get more than 7000
HH
JimmyQuinnsBits on 30 April, 2012 at 23:35 said:
I’m gettin to the age where I’d rather trust a parachute than a fart
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ironically, in my experience you’re splattered on the pavement either way.
Paul67 , excellent summary of the situation.
The thing that scares me most is what it will do to us . Either the fans and/or the club need to make a stand if natural justice is not seen to be done here. We could end up in the situation where it is our fans boycotting away games as a result having a negative on our team.
On a secondary note , can you pass my details to oglach please ?
Finally , those of you who have been so supportive of The Thai Tims , please note . They are performing at 19:15 on thursday night – that’s before the game , NOT at half-time as previously thought. Please try to get in early to support them.
HH
Sanna
night night everyone.
GLASGOWS GREEN N WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!
GLASGOWS GREEN N WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!1
Light relief time, Gents, as another day closes.
Comedy Gold/Bewildering mindset warning.
From FF. Can you believe they bit on this? Hunbelievable muppets ;)) :
===========================
FF –
We’re more than a club. We are a people, a way of life, a religion.
Too many on here have thrown in the towel when we should be prepared to fight and die for what we believe in – The Rangers.
Salmond, Clark and Whitehouse and anyone else for that matter should be left in no doubt whatsoever that should they dare push the L button they’ll have a war on their hands.
This isn’t about football, it’s a religios war being waged against the Protestant faith.
Stand up and fight for Rangers, don’t let these bastards win!
================================
So that ought to get the derision its lunatic conception deserved, But NO. It propagates some select replies as the thread grows:
========================
FF-
In a sense, yes. Every tim I know went to chapel every Sunday (many still do, I suppose fairy stories are for adults too) and was educated in a catholic school.
I believe all followers of religion are brainwashed and/or delusional. There is no big man in the sky. There is no hidden force controlling any of this.
Supporters of Celtic are delusional, brainwashed and, when they get together, dangerous. They took football rivalry and poisoned it.
They don’t attack us because of OUR religion. Rangers Football Club has no religious affiliation. They attack us because of THEIR religion. Celtic can never stop banging on about their Irish Catholic heritage.
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FF-
It’s that lot of zealots that are obsessed with reigion, faux irishness and famine badges. They are a blight on our society, sadly a scoiety that has apandered to their every request.
Have they settled their bill for the papal visit yet?
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FF-
I was laughed at last week for suggesting our current predicament was a strike at the heart of Protestantism.
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FF-
You should send your post to some of the megachurches and televangelists in the states and see if they’ll speak out about it, mate.
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FF-
This is political, driven by religious hatred.
Destroying Rangers is like walking into the middle of a Red Indian tribal village and pushing over their totem pole.
Topple a cultural totem and you can destroy the will of a people to resist who will then easily lose direction and common identity.
The other clubs in Scotland don’t fully understand that they are being used, and in killing Rangers are opening the way to their own destruction.
Anyone who believes that the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland is not watching developments with interest and indeed helping influence them from the sidelines is beyond naive.
Conspiracy?
A word that people on here recoil from, however how many movers and shakers working in concert with a common interest does it take to change things in a backwater like Scotland?
Especially in the face of overwhelming majority apathy.
I think history teaches us, not very many.
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FF-
Anyone who doesn’t think that this is all being orchestrated via Rome as a counter-reformation are deluded beyond reason. I can sit and watch prominent RC every day who are actively working on our demise. It is an obsession that will not be fulfilled for them until the RC church is once again the preeminent church in Scotland. They have never forgiven the UK for what it has done to them in past.
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FF-
Well the Pope himself in Glasgow c2010 gave us a clue when he compared secularism to fascism.
That is; if you are opposed to a religious state then you are no better than a nazi.
So the end game for the Catholic radicals is a Catholic state.
Which is why their representatives in the West Of Scotland are openly promoting sectarian divisions between Catholics and all non-Catholics.
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FF-
IMO we became such a vehemently protestant and loyalist club because of the sectarianism of Celtic and their obvious antipathy with their ‘adopted’ homeland (although most are as Irish as Arnold Schwarzenegger)
They want to destroy us not simply as a football club, but as a sign they have somehow ‘conquered’ this ‘proddy’ country
They wont fckin succeed.
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And finally, the punch line:
=================================
FF-
“Rangers Football Club has no religious affiliation.”
Why were we all singing No Pope of Rome on Sunday then?
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Dontcha just luv ’em freaky Huns?
Maybe Doncaster is going so over the top about it because he wants to be sacked with no repercussions!!!
Just a quick thought.
Just back from Glasgow the best weekend I have had in in years
Killer Article Paul67
we need to callout these cheats and liars and get whats right for Sottish football.
Lets hope that by the time they reconvene the FTT has delivered the killer blow
HH
‘crushed nuts?’ ‘Naw, Layringitis!’ on 30 April, 2012 at 23:41 said:
;)))
Act of War too true about your comments re Doncaster leaving Norwich. I’m friends with a season ticket holder at Carrow Road and he’s scathing about him. He was known as Doomcaster by the Norwich fans (a quaint bunch!) due to his pessimistic attitude coupled to the unmitigating disaster that he was.
I’ll be at the testimonial in Norwich later in the month, if any CQNers who are going fancy a pint then let me know.
Sandman,
mindboggling… in this day and age? Its like something from Puritan times, only it makes even less sense.
Its a wonder they can type, who taught them? Its like giving guns to chimps
JQB
No doubt about it, a few will go to the wall, metaphoricly speaking of course.
The real villans won’t, they will be well protected, we have seen it over the years.
What I can’t get my head around is why they are being protected to the degree that they are, I suppose I have answered my question there btw :>)
Will the house fall? really will it, everything that can be done to keep it open is being done, we know very little of what is going down, we are getting a few scraps to keep us fed.
There will be an almighty whitewash I fear, and wee whytie will walk with a few mills, minty will keep his gong, and everything will be hunky dory.
We will be the ones who ultimatly will be the ones to suffer.
Choices will have to be made by the supporters, do they still support the club and condone the cheating and the corruption, or do they walk?
It’s a terrible choice for the support to have to make, but that’s will be what is staring us in the face.
Accept or not, it will be not for me.
fencelt – Doomcaster, Iike it!
Can’t remember who the other candidates for the job were but surely they had someone with better credentials ? Seriously! Who actually decided his contract?
I would like to know.
HH
Would love to attend game but just not possible!
Danish TV deal – £30m a season.
Belgian TV deal $60m a season.
Swiss TV deal- £34m a season.
SPL – £16m a season.
The SPL attracts more punters through the door than any of those leagues, a higher percentage of the population attends than any of those leagues, yet that is the best our Chief Executive can get for us ? The best attended club in any of those 3 leagues gets less than 30k through the turnstiles, there are no clubs with worldwide support. And then he tries to tell us our TV deal is dependent on that mob across the city.
Doncaster is a failure, he must be pushed aside before he kills our game.
If the SKY TV deal is dependent on newco, and the other clubs vote in newco, then we should pull out of the SPL. We go to the SFL and offer to form a new league with them. Clubs like Dundee, Falkirk, Partick and Hamilton will provide a similar standard of opposition to most of the clubs in the SPL anyway.
Doesnt matter a toss the fate of the orcs being decided by HMRC as opposed to the spl .sfa sfl or whatever they call themselves. The point is that they, scottish footballs governing body are fighting hard on behalf of the orcs . And not following there own rules and punishments . I have never thought for one second that the rightful punishment would be administered to them . We can shake our heads in disbelief at the lengths they are willing to go to save this mob , but at the end of the day they will just do whatever they want . The whole set up stinks to high heavens , and no point looking to uefa to intervene against the orcs ,as they are being looked after there as well . Uefa were quick enough on the ball acting on the stupid banner at a europa league game ,so they are not interested in whats happening within the scottish game . .
Urgent =Request !!!!!!
I can take no more of the SPL without rankers will die cr@p
Can one of our many talented fans analyze SPL attendances?
1 – Average gate for the 16 home games (excluding 2 rankers visits)
2 – Average gate for 2 rankers visits
3 – Calculate increased takings for 2 rankers visits (including approximated increased gate charges)
4 – rankers factor as a percentage of season’s total income
I remember someone analyzed likely increased attendances without rankers as the win more games factor and 1 step up the end of season prize money was taken into account.
5 – Likely Sky income without rankers should be possible to estimate by comparison with a simikarly attended English division. Or what do Championship, division 1, 2 or Blue square get?
I think there may even be a case for Celtic to be magnanimous and share TV money equally to offset the no rankers factor.
I think we should be able to show up Keevins etc for what they certainly are not, sports journalists.
bjmac @22.59 – spot on. He came across as an arrogant buffoon. And his patronising tripe about ‘when you talk to the supporters – particularly ones who participated in the survey and once you explain to them the reality of what a newco is and what a CVA is, then that puts a different complexion on things’ – well yes it does, if you tell them lies and your explanation is a load of guff!
We need to stop this ludicrous charade.
Hail! Hail!
So todays meeting was presented as a way for Rangers, Hearts, Dunfermline, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Aberdeen, St. Mirren and Dundee Utd. To ditch their debts.
Great I hope it happens.
We naturally move into a sporting league after threatening to sue and the move is brokered by UEFA who save the day for all concerned.
HH
cardiffbhoy
Jeezo, I didn’t realise that the disparity was so much.
If you break it down farther, the scottish income for sky % wise is contributing to the obscene money that is given to the epl.
I knew he was a failure, but didn’t realise how much of a failure, shocking stats.
Were and when did Doncaster spew this nonsence?
Awe Naw
Can I have some of what you have been drinking or sniffing :>))))
Dreamer, nothing but a dreamer, put your hands in the air…….dreamer….
My dear,dear,dear,friend.. Sandman @ 23.43
Pal..
Obviously, the Guys o’ F.F. hiv no bin reading . This Forum.
Heck..
There ur Mair Athiests and Non Believers, oan here, than
ye kin shake a stick at.. that is, if ye go in fur that kinda Thing!
And there ur also.. a Fair sprinklin’, oan Here, of Members of the Protestant Persuasion.. and a Few. Adherants of the Jewish Religion,tae boot.
Plus.. a Few.. Moslems and one of two .Hindoos. and Twelve Mormons….. that Ah happen Tae Know,here,in Vegas.. also. One Scientologist, fae Brigton….They all Attend this Particular Cyber Church..
Yep.. those guys in F.F. hiv sure goat the Wrang Idea, of Whit kinda Folk.. Worship at the Celtic fc.. Altar.!
Kojo
Yer pal.. who appreciates ye Gie us the Latest score fae F.F.
Laughin’… Still…Laughin’
Good Night Scotland
Good Night Ireland
Good Night Wales
Good Night England
Good Night Canada
Good Night New Zealand
Good Night Australia
and
Good Night .. Wally Neumann, wherever You Are.
Kojo
Laughin’.. Still… Laughin’
TET,
I honestly believe they can’t survive this, no CVA, and there are a number of serious obstacles to any newco getting off the ground.
SPL re-entry is a no-no for me, under any circumstances. If it happens, football is dead in this country.
Sandman, why did you post that??? Need a shower before goin to ma bed now!!
Noted a number of comments on boycotts and not attending games on blog tonight. Fine but Celtic should not suffer for the wrongdoings of others and if you plan to carry through make sure you still support our club through other financial avenues.
a lullaby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6vWqC29ETg
Good night all
HH
JQB
JQB
Did you read Paul Mac’s blog about how they could get away with it ?
Lubo, cheers.
ABZMike, we need to raise the alarm.
Árd Macha, sure will.
West Wales Celt, thanks.
jackie mac, you’re welcome.
Clashcitybhoy, aye, hmmm.
THE EXILED TIM, yes, agree.
Hannibal Hector, didn’t know that.
baldybhoy, aye.
Kojo, yes, indeed.
Art of War, there is much more to come out but we have to deal correctly with the details in hand first.
Sandman, alas, true. We need to raise the alarm as loudly as possible.
GerryAdamsBeard, yes, incredible double speak.
Sabre67, correct, he is on a salvage job. Rescue the league at whatever cost.
JimmyQuinnsBits, thanks. Didn’t feel concise when I was writing it…..
Sanna, will do.
Lisb\o/nbhoy, cheers.
tomcourtney on 1 May, 2012 at 00:00 said:
it was done by someone on RTC – can’t remember who , maybe Auldheid . Anyway upshot was that an increase of (apologies but i may not have this wholly correct) only 500-700 season book holders would be enough to offset the absence of the sou’siders – not a lot is it ? especially considering the increased possibility of domestic honours .
On a related point , the tv money represents less than 10% of the SPL turnover – i know it’s not inconsiderable but it’s not the ELE (Extinction Level Event) that it’s being portrayed as .
Sanna (hopingmoralindignitypreventssplimmolation csc)
THE EXILED TIM on 30 April, 2012 at 23:52 said:
It has been argued here on many occasions that this could do serious damage to our club, as far as the support is concerned.
How could we, individually or collectively support corrupt and fraudulent institutions where it seems all moral compass has gone or conviently bypassed
night night