SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, appeared on BBC Radio Scotland this evening strongly pitching the appropriateness of a Newco to be voted into the SPL. He gave a couple of examples to back up his position and used gaps in his interviewer’s understanding to paint a strong picture.
While he accepted that a Newco had never assumed a position in an elevated league in Scotland he gave two examples of it happening in England and even went as far as suggesting that “going down the Newco route” was the normal way to exit administration now.
There is a crucial difference between the examples Doncaster gave and all other examples, including Rangers – over 75% of creditors agreed to a Creditors Voluntary Arrangement.
A note of explanation first:
Football clubs are free to change their corporate structure by application to their association. This has been done my most clubs over the years, in particular in the 19th century when they went from being private clubs to incorporated limited companies. There was another wave when the PLCs arrived. Celtic went through this process in 1897 when it became a limited company and again in 1994 when it became a PLC (Celtic PLC remains the same legal entity they became in 1897 with the same company number).
This facility to change your corporate structure has never been a charter to ditch your debts. Financially distressed football clubs in England often change corporate structure when subject to a takeover. The new boss comes in with the company he used to fund his takeover (like Craig Whyte’s Wavetower) then applies to the FA to associate the club with his new company. If over 75% of creditors support a CVA, this is in order and is always granted. The old company is then usually wound up.
Back to Neil Doncaster. He gave two examples: Crystal Palace and Plymouth Argyle.
Creditors of Crystal Palace agreed a CVA proposed by CPFC 2010 in June 2010. Following this, CPFC 2010 took ownership of the club and successfully applied to assume its league share.
Mr Doncaster may have been concentrating on matters elsewhere on 6 May last year when Plymouth Argyle’s creditors agreed to a CVA. The same day Craig Whyte completed his takeover of Rangers. Following this creditors agreement, the club was bought by the Akkeron Group.
Precedent in Scotland and in England is clear: if you get the agreement of your creditors (by a CVA, for example), the football authorities have no issues. If you don’t get agreement with your creditors, you’re finished.
Before I get asked the Leeds United question one more time…. 75.2% of Leeds United’s shareholders agreed to a CVA but on the 28th and final day creditors were allowed to act, HMRC objected. The Football League used emergency provisions to authorise Leeds share transfer as the CVA had sufficient support. HMRC dropped their appeal soon thereafter.
There is little we can do about controlling the debate on radio. Neil Doncaster has pinned his colours to the mast and tonight agreed to be interviewed by a journo who is also financially heavily conflicted towards supporting a Rangers-Newco in the SPL.
Doncaster also appears to have sprung the same misinformation on the organiser of the SPL Survey, who the SPL chief was very dismissive off tonight, implying the organiser accepted his view after he explained “the facts”.
This is the bottom line for you and for Doncaster. Crystal Palace, Plymouth Argyle and Leeds United all convinced over 75% of creditors to support a CVA.
Here is a list of the teams in Scotland and England (in modern times) who failed to agree a CVA:
Chester City
Farsley Celtic
Rushden and Diamonds
Airdrieonians
Gretna
All of them dissolved. None emerged as a Newco retaining their league status (although Airdrieonians fans bought and moved Clydebank FC).
This man – Doncaster – has no right to present you or SPL clubs with a selected version of English clubs history which plays fast and loose with the most important fact of all – did 75% of creditors agree to a CVA?
Precedents are clear and 100% consistent. Get 75% of creditors on side or start supporting another football team.
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Best wishes to Ton Che Dan and the family.
jock tamson on 1 May, 2012 at 10:47 said:
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I agree with collective bargaining, I also agree with all games live. What I meant was that the SPL have a very blinkered approach to negotiating a deal.
I do think that the EPL, under pressure from American owners, will go to individual negotiations which will be a disaster for all but the wealthiest.
Scientology is nothing more than a scam designed to part fools and their money.
See below tweets today from Alex Thomson @alextomo who is clearly on Doncaster’s case!
blog later on N Doncaster once I have the facts.
have been promised phone chat with ND – today I hope.
Just fact checking. Either ND is wrong or right about English FCs in liquidation… But if his English examples all got 75%+ creditor support he looks holed below the waterline on this. Let me get facts straight.
Calls in to Eufa, Charlton, Plymouth – and SPL
Cardiffbhoy- thanks for the clarification.
South of Tunis -so not operating at a Robert E Lee/Stonewall Jackson level of Confederates?
South Of Tunis on 1 May, 2012 at 10:55 said:
a bit like buying RFC(IA)!!
South Of Tunis on 1 May, 2012 at 10:55 said:
Scientology is nothing more than a scam designed to part fools and their money.
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So it is a religion then! ;))
Sadly I concur with most posters this morning that it looks like the fix is in.
The Huns are about to come back – effectively as a different company but with the authorities straining every sinew to preserve the illusion of a contiguous history as well as letting them away with tax evasion and chreating on an industrial scale.
This is why the vote was postponed – they are preparing the ground for the old switcheroo BEFORE the end of the season, as the excellent Paul McConville has predicted… This scam could only ever work as a fait accompli – Miller, D&P, and Doncaster are within reach of engineering just this situation. NewCo Huns will turn up against Saint Johnstone and dare the SPL to stop the match.
If they don’t, the cheats will have won. It will be the darkest day in the administrative history of Scottish football.
What can stop this appalling con? The SFA? (Do you have any confidence in Regan? I don’t – I spoke to someone at the game on Sunday who meets with him regularly and he said he is completely scunnered by the situation, but is effectively at the mercy of the small-minded morons who run the clubs… He wants out asap).
UEFA? One would hope so, but do they have the cojones to step in and refuse the granting of a UEFA license, if that has been awarded by the SFA? They would need to be prepared to go to war with the SFA, and whilst their interventions in the Swiss game have been encouraging, I just cannot shake the suspicion that they only did this because the idiot who runs Sion directly challenged their authority over European football.
The Huns crimes have so far been confined largely to Scotland. Rapid Vienna and Palermo can be placated, no-one else really cares.
HMRC? Can they do anything? I think not – Newcos are a loophole in the British corporate structure, exploited by cowboys to renege on debts. They can wail, but their powers are woefully limited I fear.
The Media? Bwaa-hhaaaaa-haaaa…. Scotland’s sporting and business media are a disgrace, morally supine, intellectually stunted, and hopelessly compromised. The biggest scandal in British sport is happening right under their noses, and the ones who are not actively coniving in this scam are sitting back in their chairs, mute, cowed, praying silently for everything to get back to normal…
Please someone tell me I am wrong…
‘Scientology is nothing more than a scam designed to part fools and their money. ‘
-I can see why ole Bill Miller wants to be Hillbilly #1.
Tom Courtney @ 0:00.
You asked last night about the difference the Huns make to the gates of our fellow SPL teams. If you disregard Celtic, as any financial loss we make from the Huns dying would be made up from increased European income, then the clubs most affected are Aberdeen, Hearts, Motherwell and Dundee United.
The biggest spike in attendances when Rangers visit is at Pittodrie where the average attendance increases by around 6000 punters. Even assuming all of these are Rangers fans then twice a season that would generate additional revenue of say £360k, before additional policing costs etc are taken into account. There may be increased corporate revenues also but these are more difficult to establish. So if the Huns die , then Aberdeen would have to find an extra 700 punters for each of their 18 matches to make up the shortfall in gates revenue. They owed Dunfermline £83k at the time of their administration, which would suggest they take about 3000 fans to East End Park, so a team such as Dunfermline would lose at most £166k p.a. and need to attract around 350 punters for each game to counter the Huns effect. These figures show that Doncaster is talking nonsense.
As for the SPL Sky Deal. The SPL gave £21m to the 12 member clubs last season, from TV and sponsorship deals. The TV deal is split so the top two take around 1/3rd of the income with the rest dependent on places, ranging from 9.5% to 3rd place to 5% for bottom place. Even if this halved with no Huns, the most any club would take a hit for is £1m, with the chance to move up a place and gain significantly more from gaining a European place in a competitive fight as we are seeing now between the 4 other teams in the top 6.
We don’t need no stinking huns.
Celtinental on 1 May, 2012 at 10:40 said:
sent this morning to ‘homematches@celticfc.co.uk’
been thinking this myself……..feeling completely disheartened and done up like a kipper.
has this latest act of treachery been done with 2 things in mind.
1. save the orcs by any means, ie f**k integrity
2. divide and destroy the(ethical) tim support.
i would like to see reassurances from our board……….but it aint gonna happen
like a lot on here, celtic is in our family make up it goes hand in hand.
as soon as you reach a certain age, its “right get the wee man off to the game” and with me it was the early 60’s. i’m still toddling (gasping) up to the top tier of the celtic end.
alas this treachery from the best little country and the silence from our custodians,
if that i’m being presented with, i’m not so sure i want to be part of it.
i’d rather walk away and put my hard earned cash, and i mean hard earned cash which i can i’ll afford, somewhere else.
bootedinthehawmawsagaincsc
If anyone has a Timposter RM or FF account, it might be an idea to throw the old “Bill Miller is a Scientologist” grenade in there – figuratively speaking, of course.
Be interesting to see how they react.
More propaganda from the Daily Express
SPL BOSSES URGED TO BE ‘VERY CAREFUL’ OVER KICKING OUT RANGERS
Rangers’ home ground, Ibrox
Tuesday May 1,2012
By Andy McInnes
Have your say(0)
SPL clubs have been warned that it could cost them upwards of £600,000 each and every season if Rangers are kicked or forced out of the top division.
With highly lucrative television deals threatening to collapse , League sponsorship contracts still to be sourced and signed and gate receipts certain to be slashed financial experts have urged club bosses to be ” very careful” what they wish for.
Nervous bankers have already held informal talks with several chairmen of the ” rebel ten ” who yesterday delayed a decision over implimenting tougher financial fair play proposals and a new voting structure for another week.
They fear that with most of the clubs already struggling financially and some already in considerable debt that they could be shooting themselves in the foot and pushing themselves nearer the breadline if Rangers are not retained as part of the SPL.
“We can appreciate that some clubs are very angry at the Rangers situation perhaps because of monies owed or purely from a sporting integrity perspective but ultimately it all comes down to the individual income of teams and balancing their own books as best they can ” said a financial source.
Quite frankly very few of them can afford any income stream to dry up
A financial source
“Sky and ESPN have made it clear that they need at least four Old Firm matches every season to remain interested in Scottish club football while it is already on record that possible League sponsors are shying away at the very thought of Rangers not being involved.Coupled with gate receipts going down without Rangers supporters in the equation and you have a big problem.
“It is a very tough call for the other clubs but we estimate that it could cost them in the region of £600,000 every season if Rangers are lost to the SPL whether through sanctions or a newco scenario.
“Quite frankly very few of them can afford any income stream to dry up never mind confront that sort of major financial deficit for an unknown length of time especially in the current climate.”
NOW
There are so many half-truths and inaccuracies in this article it is scary.
In the first place no financial source is named, it could be anyone. In the second place the analysis is based on NO facts and figures by this “expert”. An estimate is not a fact and it does not factor in other avenues of revenue.
Here is the major quotation:
“Sky and ESPN have made it clear that they need at least four Old Firm matches every season to remain interested in Scottish club football while it is already on record that possible League sponsors are shying away at the very thought of Rangers not being involved.Coupled with gate receipts going down without Rangers supporters in the equation and you have a big problem.”
Now correct me If I am wrong but Sky and ESPN have NO such stipulation in the contract as Doncaster said a few weeks ago. He may have changed this but I’m sure this is not an obligation – how can you guarantee it as one could finish bottom six? Also ESPN do not get ANY Glasgow derbies so their involvement in this should be considered. What’s their position? Has any journo actually bothered to ask? BarcaBhoy hit the nail on the head earlier – what will the deal be worth minus Rangers? Tell us that and Chairmen and fans can make a more informed decision – hiding it away secret society style helps no one and hides clarity – where is the transparency?
This expert also says – “it is already on record that possible League sponsors are shying away at the very thought of Rangers not being involved”
Name names please. Which sponsors and on which record did they make this claim? Not very convincing really.
The same EXPERT says:
Coupled with gate receipts going down without Rangers supporters in the equation and you have a big problem
Firstly there is no doubt that 7000 less people at one or two games can have an effect but one or two games losses can be recouped by selling to more Celtic fans AND from higher away attendances from Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United and Motherwell fans – all of whose teams have a shot at finishing second and earning European spots and their chances of winning a cup go up as well, hence more bums on seats and more revenue.
The counter argument is NEVER put forward by any hack and it speaks volumes for their impartiality in this matter.
But here’s the key bit – “”It is a very tough call for the other clubs but we estimate that it could cost them in the region of £600,000 every season if Rangers are lost to the SPL whether through sanctions or a newco scenario.”
In other words – don’t punish them at all or you’ll be sorry.
Open, naked apologizing for cheating blended with fear mongering without the slightest hint of counter argument or balance.
Welcome to the typical Scottish media piece.
Been meaning to post this for a few days its a wee joke from my bhoyhood days(long long time ago, I did not call them huns then)Here goes tin hat on
Q; What has the huns and and a Pigmy tribe have in common.
A: They both are the wee arrow people :0)
Sorry to go off topic a bit
But can anyone remember the day the spl started the 2 contract investigation ?
Also why is it taking so long ?
If they have breached the rules in the first case it would follow logic that they breached the rules in every year 1998 to 2012.
Either that or Neil Doncaster is avoiding the outcome IMHO
Another white wash of the rules.
Also did any other club report any second payments to player in their contracts submitted to thr sfa/spl ?
Jam67
so it looks like Craig Whyte is the last great hope for fairness & justice ?
jock steins celtic on 1 May, 2012 at 11:06 said:
so it looks like Craig Whyte is the last great hope for fairness & justice ?
If Craig Whyte really CAN stop this then I hope he really IS an embittered Airdrie fan.
Seriously, if the company he owns is liquidated, what further spanners can he throw in the works?
Snake Plissken on 1 May, 2012 at 11:03 said:
from the mail story “Sky and ESPN have made it clear that they need at least four Old Firm matches every season
makes me laugh cos when it comes to us v them espn dont get a look in
Snake,
McInnes is the truest of the true lapdogs. Combined with Doncaster’s IV last night I think we can safel say a coordinated campaign is well under way.
It’s nothing short of a scandal that people like McInnes pick up a wage and call themselves journalists. Total betrayal of a critical profession.
I know someone in the sports media pretty well. We have fallen out over this. What should be the opportunity of a lifetime – the chance to bag a Pullitzer – is being passed up by people like my former mate, who have become IMHO little more than cyphers for whoever is in charge at Ibrox.
Ralph Topping has resigned from his SFA post.
Sorry if it’s been posted earlier, I hadn’t seen it,
Twitter about to heat up, Tom McKelvie tweeting Speirs about 70 players illegally registered in over 500 games at RFC and directors implementing EBT were also at SFA….tick tock
KDS
ItaliaBhoy
we need to get the biggest question out there and put these folk under pressure.
BarcaBhoy called it correctly this morning. We need to know how much the Sky deal is minus them.
Once Chairmen and fans alike know it (as I suspect the chairmen possibly do know) then a proper discussion can take place regarding a newco and the financial merits of them remaining in the league.
I’ll be willing to bet a deal could be struck which would be reduced for a time but would go back up if and when they slimed their way back.
This needs to be put to journos, phone ins and everywhere. Call Sky’s bluff and get the info we need.
Snake Plissken on 1 May, 2012 at 11:03 said:
Furthermore, if as seems to be widely accepted, Newco Huns will be unable to operate with anything like the same overheads ‘enjoyed’ by the current regime, it follows that Newco Huns will be a weaker competitor, unable to sustain its status as automatic, would-be title challenger.
Following this same logic, and based on past experience (namely the John Greig years), it is a stick-on that their ‘box-office appeal’ will fall off markedly … meaning fewer season ticket holders (Ticketus’ problem) and fewer travelling fans.
In short, at the undeniable cost of sporting integrity and the clear danger of alienating ten of thousands of paying customers, there is no realistic prospect of the Zombie RFC doing anything other than further damage to the SPL brand.
FF
Any chance of Scottish football being purified in the Beltane Fire?
Of well, maybe next year.
Clarification.
SPL chairman Ralph Topping has resigned his SFA board commitments due to pressure of work. The 60-year-old, who is chief executive of bookmakers William Hill, will continue in his non-executive role with the SPL which he has held since 2009.
Link
Why has Ralph Topping resigned??
Folly Folly
I completely concur.
Fans of other clubs will walk away rather than pay to watch their team play in a corrupt league.
More and more of us are waking up to the depth of the forces that are aligned to save RFCIA.
This is more than an exercise for the good of the game.
That phrase ropes in some people who fear life without them.
It is totally a campaign to allow that poison to continue.
The unifying confederacy is driven by Freemasonry and this permeates all levels in society.
The whole process is in the”grip” of the Craft.
My fear is that it extends to UEFA.
My mantra for months has been, “It’s all about what Celtic do”.
Belfast Celtic or Derry City; I.e. chuck it or move.
Acquiesce and we, too, are corrupted. We,too, are compromised.
It’s that serious.
sparkleghirl
What were the odds … ?
;-)
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OK who should we nominate? Keevins or Traynor?
Quote:
Topping’s decision to step down from SFA duties leaves a vacancy on both the main SFA board and PGB. The SPL are allowed three representatives on the PGB – the others are currently SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell.
One of those two could now be in line for a place on the main SFA board, while an SPL appointed replacement for Topping will join the PGB.
Does this change anything?
Are they liquidised yet? ……… Gonnae hurry up, Miller and agent Whyte are waiting to split the proceeds from the sale of iPox
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon on 1 May, 2012 at 11:22 said:
Why has Ralph Topping resigned??
…………
Scared rafaelless!!!
Well done McCoist
Howya bhoys,odd time poster full time lucker:) anyhow flying over to glasgow thursday nite from dublin with the other half and will miss the saints game and dont think ll get tickets for the utd game either so quick question for anybody in the know would there be a beam back in celtic park for the dundee utd game sunday? Thanks anybody who can help.
sparkleghirl on 1 May, 2012 at 11:27 said:
Very much so.
Doncaster has repeatedly said that it was Topping’s casting vote whether a new co were permitted to the SPL.
The game is under way and we’ll find out by the new appointment what the game is and who is winning.
Ooh, I’d forgotten the casting vote.
Could it be even that the board KNEW there was an even split and that Topping KNEW his vote would be decisive and that therefore he’d be blamed?
Topping resigning,EBTs disclosure,Doncaster rant,surely time for UEFA to get involved.
Anybody got a feeling that the brown stuff is about to hit the fan?