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Doubt remains until we hear the words Prima Facie

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Neil Doncaster has uttered the words “Prima Facie” more often than any other figure in public life since February when Celtic Quick News first asked if Rangers EBT payments were declared to the football authorities, almost always after the words “we don’t know if there is a”.  While we are all assuming the SPL have now established Rangers have a case to answer for illegally registering footballers for over a decade, it’s important to hear the words.

Rangers refused to submit information to the SPL for three months and only did so under the duress of a deadline, but we don’t know what they have submitted.  I have been concerned that Rangers would simply try to brass the entire episode out, submit the contracts the SFA and SPL already had, and deny having any record of side agreements.

Consider the clubs modus operandi in recent months and years.  Sir David Murray provided cover in March, categorically denying side contracts existed, while the current men in charge have been too busy to spare much time researching the issue.  A response of “We don’t have any information” would not have surprised me.  Rangers submitting full information – including details on the side letters which exist but which the BBC do not have – would surprise me.

The SPL should have realised months ago they would get nothing from Rangers without a deadline but they are in awkward position if the answer from the club is not what is expected.  It’s far from clear that they can take evidence from the BBC and may require information from the First Tier Tribunal verdict to substantiate what everyone knows.  The verdict is unlikely to confirm any names.

Until Mr Doncaster says “Prima Facie evidence exists” we should not assume this episode is on track to be dealt with.

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  1. SonsOfErin on 1 June, 2012 at 11:26 said:

     

     

    From previous – I suspect that his contracts (and if in fact all football contracts) have clauses making them dependent on successful registration with the governing body. I might be wrong but I doubt that Cousin is contracted to Rangers at the moment.

  2. It was 120 years ago today…

     

     

    By: Joe Sullivan on 01 Jun, 2012 10:53

     

     

    TODAY marks the 120th anniversary of the very first cup final meeting between Celtic and Rangers as the Celts lifted the Charity Cup for the first time.

     

     

    Including Celtic’s inaugural game when they beat Rangers 5-2, this was the ninth time the clubs had met and the Celts had yet to lose a game.

     

     

    Following the 5-2 win the Celts recorded wins of 1-0 and 5-3 in the Scottish Cup, 6-1 in the Glasgow Cup and also marked up results of 2-2, 2-1, 3-0 and 1-1 in the league.

     

     

    And it was 120 years ago today (Friday) on June 1, 1892 that Celtic and Rangers lined up against each other in a final for the first time ever as a crowd of 8,000 took in the proceedings at Celtic Park.

     

     

    Ironically, Celtic’s game in the previous round had been played at Ibrox where they defeated Dumbarton 3-1 thanks to a double from Neilly McCallum and another counter from Sandy McMahon.

     

     

    However, it was Johnny Campbell who was the star of the show in this game as he netted both goals in Celtic’s historic 2-0 win.

  3. For any ‘normal’ investigation of possibly fraudulent activity, the investigating authority sends its officer into the agency being investigated, removes all files, computers etc… which might hold any information pertinent to the investigation. The agency being investigated can do nothing except stand back and fear the worst.

     

     

    Unless of course it is RFCia….

     

     

    As with every other aspect of this sorry saga, all the normal rules of operation do not apply to RFCia. The great untouchables.

  4. •-:¦:-•** -:¦:- sparkleghirl :¦:-.•**• -:¦:-• on

    They allowed Rangers three months to shred the evidence.

     

     

    Why would they do that?

  5. Paul, tend to agree with you regarding what D&P will have sent to the SPL. I reckon it will simply be copies of the contracts that the SPL already have, there will be no mention of EBT’s or side letters.

     

     

    This will leave the door open for Doncaster to say that there has been no Prima Facie evidence uncovered so no case to answer for.

     

     

    Until of course the BTC hits the fan. At that point RFC (IA) will also be guilty of misleading an SPL investigation and should receive some additonal sanction for that !!!

     

     

    Looks like they will be out of the Scottish and League Cups for a few years as punishment. I do not expect any suspension or expulsion to be contemplated by the so called governing bodies.

     

     

    I think RFC(A) would really have to do something really , really, truly nuclear for that to be considered.

  6. In order for the truth to be found, you have to have an investigating authority whose sole interest is to uncover the truth.

     

    Sadly, in this case, we have the SPL and SFA.

     

    And that’s what they will find, SFA.

  7. Paul67

     

     

    Can’t Mr Daly simply forward his evidence to the offices of both the SFA and SPL?

  8. Paul,

     

    my over arching concern is born of the fact that I do not trust Scottish officialdom. The actions and utterances of the SPL, the SFA and club chairmen have all demonstrated that any action taken against Rangers will be accompanied by an enormous degree of reluctance.

     

     

    The SFA response to Rangers actions in court is a case in point. Why disciplinary action has not already begun defies logic. Sion must be wondering if they live in a different universe.

     

     

    As for contract irregularities: A Prima Facie case DOES exist. Hugh Adams, Billy Dodds and the BBC have provided MORE than enough evidence.

     

     

    The sole reason for the collective inaction of officialdom is to wait and hope that some opportunity comes along to simply do nothing.

     

     

    The creation of a ‘newco’ will allow them to trot out ‘sins of the previous owners….too late….etc…’.

     

     

    This battle has only begun.

     

     

    Anyone got an address for Sion FC?

  9. So if Rangers send nothing but the existing contracts where does that leave the documentary evidence held by Mark Daly and (we presume) HMRC?

  10. This Rangers carry on is beginning to hang around everyone like a bad smell. Getting into everything we do. Like someone sitting in your living room with shite on their shoes, but no one knowing the protocols to eject them.

  11. If the BBC have evidence then surely the SPL should be making moves to ‘see’ it. That will be the prima facie evidence that is required. I don’t think the slippery Huns will give up anything like that. The four hundred quid they didn’t pay ‘Shredit’ seems like good business.

  12. James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on

    A much more pessimistic piece than last night’s.

     

     

    Which is almost certainly for the best.

     

     

    I have almost mentally accepted the fact Rangers will be in the SPL next season. For all the enormity of their crimes, for the catalogue of their dishonest behavior, in the end it is still going to come down to someone pulling the trigger.

     

     

    The lax behavior of the SFA and SPL, the absolute unwillingness on either side to even consider or discuss this up until now, the sheer immorality of some of what Neil Doncaster has decided to allow – none of it will make a difference. In the end, either club chairmen or officials in our governing bodies will have to take these decisions, and live with the consequences of them.

     

     

    Because of years of pandering and feeding the Ibrox ego, those consequences are probably going to be enormous.

     

     

    Yes, I have almost resigned myself to the inevitability of this league rubber-stamping corruption, and thereby of my turning my back on the Scottish game.

     

     

    Shame really, as I look at Charles Green and see a lizard sunning itself on a rock. There is no emotion there, just an untapped greed. He will suck the blood out of Rangers with a straw and leave them no better off than they are now. It would almost have been fun to watch, but I won’t.

  13. Snake Plissken on

    I expect Rangers to give them nothing incriminating. Anything that is will be sitting in shredded pieces and useless.

     

     

    However, the players themselves all had the side letters and the BBC have them (and I presume RTC has them as well). The letters plus signatures from officials should be enough.

     

     

    The question is will the SPL take this evidence or ignore it?

     

     

    When ex-players have provided them to media outlets as Marvin Andrews did to the Sun, it is clear that they exist and the question is what was in the cabinets in the SFA/SPL offices.

     

     

    If there was nothing untoward there wouldn’t be a Big tax case in the first place.

     

     

    I sense this one will run for a long time yet unless a new wave of honesty comes over everyone involved at that football club.

  14. HamiltonTim,

     

     

    A stag do? In Newcastle? You’ll stick out like a sore thumb in such quiet surroundings! ;-)

     

     

    Shame though. Been on CQN since birth (IT’s birth, not mine) which I’m pretty sure you have too (unless I’m mixing you up with BT) but for one reason or another I STILL haven’t had the pleasure of meeting anyone.

     

     

    OneOfTheseDays.CSC

  15. philvisreturns on

    Avocado – Rangers are the shady unwelcome party guest who does a jobby in your kettle and then tries to abscond with the microwave. (thumbsup)

  16. philvisreturns on 1 June, 2012 at 12:03 said:

     

     

    Interesting parties you host philvis

  17. jock steins celtic on

    Duff & Phelps aren’t Rangers though. What do they care about what went on during the Murray regime and whether Rangers get stripped of titles.

  18. With the Clyde fun run, West End festival, and now talk of an unofficial jubilee party in Kelvingrove park, allowing twenty OO marches on the same day seems like a great idea!

  19. weeminger – Could be, I admit beyond the immediate reported facts I’m speculating. I’m a naughty wee scamp, so I am ;)

  20. Half Time Tombola on

    BRTH – your post on the last thread was excellent as always.

     

     

    Even if they do shake all the hands they need to, to get back in the SPL scot free, they’ll be tainted for evermore and the stark reality is they will not be able to compete with Celtic in financial or sporting terms for the next 10-20 years – regardless of whether SFA/SPL sanctions materialise or not!!

     

     

    It’s great to be a Celtic fan!

     

     

    Hail Hail

     

    Tombola

  21. HT

     

     

    I’ve had a couple of good days and nights in the Akenside (Quayside). Cheap food as well and decent for pub grub. Gets very busy late on but they all do:))

     

     

    Enjoy.

  22. StevieS

     

     

    I’m a novice in comparison to my master BT.

     

     

    Have no idea where we’ll be drinking but if you’re going to be in the city centre tomorrow evening then email me at hamiltontim@hotmail.co.uk and you may be able to buy me a pint :-))

  23. Some info….

     

     

     

    The annual Great Famine-Irish Pilgrimage Mass will be concelebrated on Sunday 3rd June 2012 at Carfin Grotto-St Francis Xavier Church in Lanarkshire ML1 5AJ. The Mass will be led by Bishop Joseph Devine of the Diocese of Motherwell and will begin at 3pm.

  24. Lennybhoy, indeed.

     

     

    JackGlasgow, they’re aiming in that direction.

     

     

    hamiltontim, Mr Daly can and perhaps has passed the contracts to the SPL, but I if Rangers say “these do not match our records, where did you get them from”, what then?

     

     

    The BBC cannot reveal a source and there the trail would end.

     

     

    weeron, indeed.

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