Neil Doncaster has uttered the words “Prima Facie” more often than any other figure in public life since February when Celtic Quick News first asked if Rangers EBT payments were declared to the football authorities, almost always after the words “we don’t know if there is a”. While we are all assuming the SPL have now established Rangers have a case to answer for illegally registering footballers for over a decade, it’s important to hear the words.
Rangers refused to submit information to the SPL for three months and only did so under the duress of a deadline, but we don’t know what they have submitted. I have been concerned that Rangers would simply try to brass the entire episode out, submit the contracts the SFA and SPL already had, and deny having any record of side agreements.
Consider the clubs modus operandi in recent months and years. Sir David Murray provided cover in March, categorically denying side contracts existed, while the current men in charge have been too busy to spare much time researching the issue. A response of “We don’t have any information” would not have surprised me. Rangers submitting full information – including details on the side letters which exist but which the BBC do not have – would surprise me.
The SPL should have realised months ago they would get nothing from Rangers without a deadline but they are in awkward position if the answer from the club is not what is expected. It’s far from clear that they can take evidence from the BBC and may require information from the First Tier Tribunal verdict to substantiate what everyone knows. The verdict is unlikely to confirm any names.
Until Mr Doncaster says “Prima Facie evidence exists” we should not assume this episode is on track to be dealt with.
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Mort – The Queen is a big Celtic fan and member of HMRC CSC (thumbsup)
WFPLG: ‘Prima Facie? I don’t remember eatin’ that!’
Richie:
And having said that, they still maintain that the rest of Scotland needs them.
Just when you thought they couldn’t go any lower in your estimation they pull out all the stops to show you haven’t seen anything yet.
philvisreturns
Then at least she would appreciate my gesture, if all the other locals don’t.
Mort
Hi Paul,
“Neil Doncaster has uttered the words “Prima Facie” more often than any other figure in public life…”
This mantra looked at first sight to reinforce the perception that the SPL Lawyers’ were on the job, it was only after Mark Daly’s BBC Expose that Mr Doncaster came clean regarding the state of play with his EBT investigation.
As you stated yesterday the SPL CEO was promoting RFCia’s Old/NewClub objectives, we now know while doing so fully aware they were flouting requests for documentation.
Let’s be clear Neil Doncaster was supporting RFCia and listening to the great and good of R@ngers harangue Stewart Regan and the SFA over their decisions and insisting on greater transparency. All the while he knew the were obfuscating on the dual contract inquiry.
He probably is still unaware if they have complied with his request in full.
This is just one of a plethora of circumstances that call for a top level inquiry into the R@ngers scandal.
Hail! Hail!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/
Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which people have an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with themselves.
Causes, incidence, and risk factors:
The causes of this disorder are unknown. An overly sensitive personality and parenting problems may affect the development of this disorder.
Symptoms:
A person with narcissistic personality disorder may:
React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
Have excessive feelings of self-importance
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
Need constant attention and admiration
Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy
Have obsessive self-interest
Pursue mainly selfish goals
(thumbsup)
VertWolf on 1 June, 2012 at 12:26 said:
Except what if the contract states that player X will be paid eg £15k/week after tax, and that’s what they received in total.
The contract is correct. However it also proves the Big Tax Case becasue the players will have received the correct contractual payment but it would have been divided between Rangers and the EBT.
The side letter could then simply confirm the breakdown of the payment. So even if it existed it wouldn’t necessarily constitute a second contract or a breach of SPL/SFA rules (I don’t think).
HOWEVER, if the above scenario was the case and as I said, it categorically proves the EBT payments were contractual. Would they have been so stupid as to break the main rule of them so obviously? I think it’s unlikely, so that brings us back round to the most likely outcome that the main contract stated one payment and the side letter detailed supplementary payments. Which leaves them in bother with both the football and the tax authorities.
Philvis auld Queenie has provided me with an extra paid hol this year, I like her and don’t even care whether she’s Celtic minded or not, I think I’m mellowing in my auld age :¬)
hx2
VertWolf on 1 June, 2012 at 12:26 said:
”Paul67
the side-letters may well be relevant for the FTT ruling but I would have thought the simple existence of significant additional payments to players over and above the amounts lodged with the SPL/SFA would provide Prima Facie evidence”
The huns argument is that the payments were loans and as such didn’t have to be declared.
It’s therefore essential to establish that the payments were in fact disguised remuneration.
The ‘side contracts’ would establish that, as would a victory for HMRC.
Avocado on 1 June, 2012 at 12:10:
I knew a few Bhoys that went to the College in the 1970s.
The College is still there but not as it was, demolished part of it, sold the land and housing on it now.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Vmhan – Gawd bless ‘er. (thumbsup)
VertWolf on 1 June, 2012 at 12:26 said:
Paul67
the side-letters may well be relevant for the FTT ruling but I would have thought the simple existence of significant additional payments to players over and above the amounts lodged with the SPL/SFA would provide Prima Facie evidence – it shouldn’t matter if the documents about the payments are provided indirectly via a leak say from the EBT Trustees or directly by RFC(IA) – they should still be damning enough to get a proper investigation started
VertWolf
——————–
My read exactly, VertWolf.
Paul, any thoughts on this?
i have been told that craig whyte is in todays daily ranger enjoying
the lifestyle of monte carlo while the mayhem around the rankers
continues.
why has strathclydes finest not paid him a visit, i would have thought
they would be queing up for a nice trip to the principality.
this guy and his sidekicks did not pay p.a.y.e. vat ect for over a
year as has been admitted by duff and phelps.
i compare this to the treatment my son in law who runs a small
business had with h.m.r.c.
they threatened him with all sorts of action because they said
he was a month late with his payments which as it turned out
they had lost his cheque.
why was whyte allowed to get away with this for so long.
somebody at hmrc has a lot to answer for
while watching a news programme the other night i couldnt
help but make a comparison between two items, one was
about them not paying taxes the other was how families
were having to cope with cutbacks on carers due to lack
of funds.
people should be going to jail over this stealing from the
public purse
Sannabhoy aka George Clooney
nice one
philvisreturns on 1 June, 2012 at 12:37 said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/
”Narcissistic personality disorder”
You’re the second person to have mentioned that term on here in the last few weeks.
What’s it like to be second?
ps the irony is intentional.
roy croppie on 1 June, 2012 at 11:54 said:
>>>>
“…and if you know your history…!”
HH! \o/.!
Avocado – I used to go to St Francis Xavier’s seminary in Coatbridge
Did you know the late great Willie Docherty? (thumbsup)
The Spirit of Arthur Lee on 1 June, 2012 at 12:28 said:
>>>
…..naebody has ever called me a hun……..aw naw..dear god…what have I done…!?
ernie lynch – What’s it like to be second?
Ernie, I won’t lie to you, I’m a broken man and think I may turn to the drink and the devil dugs for solace. I’m not sure if you can drink devil dugs but maybe I can train one to fetch me cans of Kestrel or something.
This is even more embarrassing than the time I was involved in a low-speed collision at a roundabout because I was too busy rocking out to Hanson’s “Mmmbop”. (thumbsup)
philvisreturns on 1 June, 2012 at 12:43 said:
Aye, he taught me Maths, Biology, Science etc and fitba!
I remember he used to wear an academic cloak to class and he drove this big bat mobile type car.
Fearsome character!
charles kickham on 1 June, 2012 at 12:32 said:
>>>
wtf? and how can the olympic torch be gettin’ dragged intae the gutter with this shower? are they fielding a youth team? do i really give a flying…any more? i despair. it’s all too mental now.
I’m late catching up with site as usual and have moved ahead to post this rare blog from myself,regarding Irish enslavement.Sorry if has been stated in between.
Regards to those who posted that the Irish were at it themselves (St. Patrick),pirates raiding the east coast of Britain!
The Romans never got to Ireland (not in any number anyway) nor the English until Plantagenet times and they weren’t after slaves (no colonies yet?). The anti English brigade I’m afraid will have to blame Scandinavia (the dear old vikings) for starting it all off as a contemporary large sale operation. Holding pens in Limerick ( I think) west coast- river Shannon and Dublin. Irish slaves were exported all over Europe where the vikings traded when they couldn’t plunder.
Now back to reading about the never (yet) ending saga of Rangers’ demise.
Tusker
Mort…… in Port Glasgow its….
“To beat Glasgow Celtic you’ll have to deport,
“Those mad fighting Irish who come from the Port!”
Just thought I’d share :¬)
Philvisreturns, Avacado..
The Big Doc – Smack round the lug “Sometimes I just sits an thinks and sometimes I just sits! Eh laddie!”
Large sale operation,yes but meant – large scale.
There is already a prima facie case. Rangers have admitted paying players through EBTs. If they haded these payments to SFA and SPL as being related to footballing activitie they would be entirely humped on the BTC. Compare and contrast what SPL docs say for, say, ten players, and go through rangers players bank statements for the same period. It isn’t difficult.
philvisreturns on 1 June, 2012 at 12:43:
and
Avocado on 1 June, 2012 at 12:49:
The ‘Doc’, related to friends of mine.
Either of you go to the College same time as the Hay Brothers?
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Philvis,
Good to see you facing up to your problems, the hardest part is always admitting you have a problem.
Treatment next eh :0)
James Forrest:
You credit them a lot more than they deserve by accusing them of mere immorality.
If it was only immorality for the sake of coin maybe people could understand their reasoning, they might not condone it but at least they could understand the motivation. However, it is not their desecration of the virtue of morality that is society’s problem and their shame, whether they accept it or not, as opposed their proud adoption and staunch advocacy of amorality as righteous business strategy that beggars belief. What lessons are they teaching the next generation?
They are evil, moral lepers, and I hope their children receive great educations and they grow to pity the weaknesses of their fathers. What shame more damning and indelible beyond the grave than a son or a daughter disowning a father.
derailingfordummies.com… they have turned it into an art form.
They as a demographic know no shame and that is the crying shame unless we face it down.
philvisreturns on 1 June, 2012 at 12:38 said:
Vmhan – Gawd bless ‘er. (thumbsup)
At last!…………Timabhuoy unmasked!
Paul67
Wasn’t the question – “have payments been made to players in addition to those declared in contracts?”
And then “please send us details of any such payments.”
I don’t believe they just asked Rangers to forward on the official player contracts since the SPL began as there would be no point. Although in this saga anything is possible.
the level of usage of the phrase “Prima Facie” by eNDon is above and beyond the level of times that Sir Walter made use of the phrase “the level of”
its an accusation that, tho he aint happy its being levelled at him (Watty), all others are unlikely to be on any level playing field when it comes to should it or should it not become public knowledge that you are goin to level the guy if he atempts to “level-of”-ize anybody else in these days of very uneven grounds
am away for a lie doon
:)
level of finance
level of consistancy
level off the top o that pint a
guinness there, wullye?
Let’s start a thread….green things Huns DO eat & green thing they DON’T eat
I’ll Start
Bogeys & Soor plooms
HH
j67 on 1 June, 2012 at 12:41 said:
>>>
“Steal a little and they throw you in jail.
Steal a lot and they make you King.”
BobDylan CSC
Lennybhoy…Supporting Neil Lennon and CFC until I die on 1 June, 2012 at 12:55 said:
I was there from Sept 79 (1st Year) through to spring 1982 (1/2 way through 3rd year)
‘The Romans never got to Ireland ‘….it shows, believe me it shows ;/)
Orcs to play Southampton and Arsenal on the 14th July in some tournament…that will be interesting as they wont be in existence…:)
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Any real investigation into the second contract/illegal registrations if proved guily sinks more than just rangers, because they were helped
The handling of the whole second contract/illegal registrations stinks to high heaven, follow the smell
Its coming from President what school did you go to, IMO
Is he STILL in post?
Corrupt SFA, innit