It is a measure of how far we have come during this Champions League campaign that a 2-1 defeat away to Benfica, leaving us favourites to qualify in second place for the Champions League knockout stage and assured of European football after Christmas, is a disappointment.
Unlike previous defeats in this competition, this one has not limited our ambitions.
Around this time of previous Champions League campaigns I’ve opined that Uefa Cup/Europa League qualification would be preferable to finishing second in the group stage, leading to inevitable elimination to a group winner. Teams who drop out of the Champions League have the prospect of a decent run in the Europa League, earning more coefficient points and potentially more cash, whereas Celtic never convinced me they could reach the last eight of the Champions League.
This time is different. We got it wrong last night and as a result lost the head-to-head against Benfica but this was not the case against Barcelona. Most of the current group leaders are better than Celtic, all would create more chances and have more possession against us, but here’s the rub, Celtic can score goals against anyone and can defend remarkably well.
Georgios Samaras has now scored in three consecutive group stage away games; he scored in all of Celtic’s five away games in Europe this season, surely a record. This is beyond a mere statistical oddity, it’s a result of a strategy which Benfica, Barcelona and Spartak have been unable to cope with (last night’s block-and-free-header routine was a thing of technical brilliance).
We’ve scored five goals in total in our three away group stage games. In the eight away games in the competition proper before this season, since losing in Copenhagen, we scored only once (remember against whom?)! In short, we can go anywhere and play effective counter-attacking football which even the best team in history had trouble dealing with.
That doesn’t mean we are champions-elect, of course. Benfica, who are a worthy team but are not tier-one material, got the better of us. They played to form last night and Celtic dipped. Scott Brown was clearly unfit, Charlie Mulgrew may-or-may-not have declared himself ill before kick-off but his condition did not help (stunning corner aside).
Neil also left out Kris Commons. Kris’s form has shaded since The Beating of Barca, so I was not surprised to see him on the bench, but did you notice we started to get balls into the Benfica box after he came on? More of this and I fancy Benfica would have yielded. In his post-match comments Neil Lennon reminded us his players are young and will learn from the experience.
It’s easy to overlook the fact that the manager is also young and learning as he goes along. His tactical decisions have been the real revelation of this group, even if he did leave Kris out and his gamble with Scott Brown didn’t work. His progress as a manager has been, as our old friend might say, astonishing.
Fraser Forster provided more evidence of his outstanding ability. Mikael Lustig and Kelvin Wilson looked perfectly at ease with under frenetic pressure but Efe Ambrose particularly impressed. I’ve watched Celtic defences for decades and we always seem to have a ‘junior partner’ but not now.
The defence made two mistakes last night but in all their games together they have yet to conjure up a Big Dan Moment.
My objectives for this Champions League campaign have already been surpassed but expectation levels are never level, so let’s take care of Spartak and see where the adventure goes next.
Orders are now open for the very first CQN Annual, get it here!
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celtic *o* lennon
16:08 on
21 November, 2012
But we demand to know who these people are, I think we have a right to know-quote from a Greggs customer.
Another view on the BTC Verdict.
Score changed but not the result.
http://wingsland.podgamer.com/big-tax-case-verdict-the-reality/
Oldco Deid……..
Newco Skint……..
Celtic in Europe after Christmas…….
Who’s celebrating…………….
Thank feck I’am a Tim
Gordon J
I mentioned on here some time back that similar schemes applied throughout the construction of the Olympic Park and Village. I know this personally, because I was offered a contract. “Employees” were paid a nominal amount, say £200 per week, on which tax and NI would be paid. The rest is paid through a trust, (mine would have been Isle of Man, but in the interest of fairness, it should be pointed out that other tax havens are available) as a loan, and paid separately. There is a fee involved, usually paid to the offshore management company. The vast majority of the £10 billion spent at Stratford was public money, but you can be sure, the amount collected via PAYE reflects only a fraction of that expenditure. In my view it is (once again invoking the immortal words of John Major) a bogus sham. And, despite the Edinburgh ruling, completely illegal!
I did a distance learning course on Andy Thomism.
He had some interesting points to make about Augustine of Hippo, and original sin.
Gavin McCann on yesterday’s verdict.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-institute-of-integrity/
I can’t help laughing at the idea that they died when they might have been saved. It seems even better in some ways.
The zombie failed his driving test because he left his foot on the clutch.
An Open University course on Andy Thom? Thats remarkable. Although he was a fair player. Is Henrick’s course at Cambridge/ Oxford?
garygillespieshamstring
The zombie failed his driving test because he left his foot on the clutch
He also left his heid on the bonnet,Sorry that should read his bunnet on hjs heid:0)
I would be grateful if one of our ‘Legal Eagles’ on here would suggest what the implications of yesterday’s Tribunal judgement might be -if any – on the S.P.L.’Double Contract’ hearing. Apologies if I have missed this already.
Shieldmuir Celtic
from page 1 and see my link on previous page.
The Battered Bunnet
12:13 on 21 November, 2012
I am unqualified to dispute the many Legal aspects of the FTT judgement on Rangers’ use of EBTs, and in any event, wouldn’t be so conceited as to try, but from a Football perspective, it seems to me that the outcome is the worst possible.
The Rangers story has shambled on for almost 3 years, and there was at least the prospect of the FTT decision permitting a line to be drawn under the entire affair, allowing Football to get back on with the Game. Regrettably not I fear.
At a simple level, the decision of the Tribunal that the EBT payments were not liable to Tax and NIC at source rather indicates that the liquidation of the club was entirely unnecessary. That is a ghastly outcome.
Whatever else Rangers may have been, they were a principal player in the Scottish Game, and their demise it seems was precipitated by the risk of the Tax Case going against them, rather than the reality of it. Scottish Football is no better off this morning for knowing it. Additionally, while the sums held to be due by Rangers have not been disclosed, it is fair to consider them a fraction of the overall HMRC Assessment, and as such, would have been within the resources of the club to pay.
I have written previously on the impact of the decision by the Rangers Board in 2010 not to provide for an adverse outcome. With Champions League money guaranteed, and a first team squad of considerable value, battening down the hatches by selling some of the star players and operating on a break even basis from Domestic football would have permitted the club to ring fence perhaps £40M to provide for an adverse outcome. Even had the outcome been the worst possible, Rangers would still have had the necessary collateral to avoid a terminal fate.
That they chose not to is I’m sure a matter of some regret for those fellows individually, and for the fans of the club collectively.
Nevertheless, the FTT decision is not cut and dried. On the one hand, the dissenting opinion of Dr Poon is explicit and provides ample Legal basis for an appeal by HMRC. On the other, decisions at FTT do not constitute legal precedent, and an Appeal to the Upper Tier seems likely, given both the grounds laid out by Poon, and the chance for HMRC to obtain a legal precedent accordingly. Such an Appeal would cost a fraction of the original case, as no new evidence can be led, and with perhaps 5000 similar EBT cases in the HMRC pipeline, HMRC I should expect will be inclined to go for it, politics notwithstanding.
Which is why the FTT decision is such a rum do for Scottish Football. There is no end in sight.
The big tax case has always been distinct from though associated with the Football Regulatory issues. It was expected that a definitive outcome from the former would facilitate a clean conclusion to the latter, albeit the latter is considering a separate set of alleged rules breaches. Not now I think.
Nimmo Smith is now in the unenviable position of having to determine the status of the side letter payments and the matter of their non-disclosure from the perspective of the Football Rule Book, in the full knowledge that any subsequent appeal at Law of the FTT decision by HMRC might very well contradict his own conclusions. Nimmo Smith also has to consider the view of the Tribunal at Paragraph 161 to 163, particularly the view that: “Non-registration of side-letters was incompatible with both authorities’ policing and disciplinary powers”. That’s a tough one for him to deal with safely.
My own concern in this matter has been focussed on the invidious position of certain Rangers’ Directors during the period of operation of the EBT scheme. These guys were at once implementing the scheme, benefiting from it, electing not to disclose it to SFA and SPL, and serving as Directors of variously SFA and SPL. Nimmo Smith will necessarily require to deal with these conflicting interests without the benefit of a firm legal definition of the status of the payments undisclosed (an Upper Tier Decision).
That the letters providing for the payments were deliberately withheld is beyond doubt given the extensive discussion on the matter in the FTT. Nimmo Smith must determine whether withholding the side letters was legitimate or illegitimate from the perspective of the Football Rule Book without the benefit of their definition at Law. Were they part of the over-arching contract? Were they simply discretionary loans right enough?
It is entirely possible that contracts lodged with the SFA/SPL provided for the ‘gross’ wages for each player, and only the method/channel of payment was withheld. That would be reasonable in my view: If the total contractual entitlement was notified to SFA/SPL, whether it was paid in cash in a suitcase or in Krugerrands or any such combination is none of the SFA’s business.
Alternatively, if the contracts lodged do not reflect the ‘gross’ value of the agreements, we are back to square one, where payments for football related activity were not disclosed to the Authorities, rendering the Registrations invalid, and all manner of sequelae.
In all of this, Nimmo Smith is being asked to come to his own view despite an Upper Tier Appeal outstanding. If his judgement is contradicted subsequently at Upper Tier Tribunal, God alone knows how we might deal with the fallout from that one. Imagine if a former Rangers Director was banned sine die by Nimmo Smith for a set of actions that were subsequently exonerated at UTT? Or indeed the opposite occurred. An impossible position.
All he can really do is look at those matters unaffected by the law, and defer judgement on those that are until a later date.
And so here we are, 3 years on, and with the possibility that there may be a further 2 years to come in this saga before there is any final clarity, providing of course that HMRC do indeed appeal.
Even my interest is unlikely to be sustained over that period.
In the meantime, we need to rebuild the Game. Try that for size.
Tosh Mckinlay has been appointed to the Regius Chair of Theology at Durham.
It’s believed his appointment will bridge some of the differences between the Anglo-Catholic and the Pentecostal views in the Church of England.
Shieldmuir Celtic
In this country, despite evidence to the contrary decisions can be unexplainable.
Overheard some Orcs talking at my work.
One o them is a Follow Follow addict. According to this Richard head, theres going to be some bloodlust, with guys like BBC’s Mark Daly near the top of their list.
No sense of right or wrong whatsoever, just revenge.
Theres a world record number of Richard heads suddenly talking football again in my place. Funny that.
Shieldmuir Celtic – my woodwork GCSE grade 3 pass enabled to me to determine that oldhuns won their appeal. Sir David stands victorious like King Pyryhus of Epirus with his smouldering empire strewn around him.
It changes nothing really. They owed less tax then everyone thought they owed, even though they didn’t intend to pay anything at all. HMRC – via BDO – can chase recipients of the “loans” to repay them. Good luck with that.
The dual contracts issue starts again in Jan/Feb and the ftt decision doesn’t affect that case – except that the decision document clearly states that side letters were not declared to the SFA/SPL so we would expect titles to be stripped.
Most of this could be nonsense though, I skipped a lot of the lessons!
What happened to the RFF money???
Who silenced The Bommur??
Frightened themselves to death – petrified zombies
:oD)))))
Whit’s gaun oan wi’ Paul Murray’s hair??
Auld heid -16.53.
Thank you for that full explanation, which suggests that this Big Issue is not clearcut and nowhere near completion. ….
Afternoon bhoys from a cool hun free mountain.
So the msm are howling that they could have been saved, and should have been playing in the CL this week.
Naw, not quite right.
Aye, they *won* the BTC, but they were still in debt to the tune of 50-60 mill, and not a hope of paying it.
Whatever the case, and many seem to think they are a dead club, I don’t.
They are still playing out of the bigot dome, still called The Rangers, with the emphasis on the The, still singing their bile, still cheating, still lying,still getting favourable treatment from the powers who be, still have the referees in their pocket, still spouting their garbage and getting away with it, still bringing the game into disrepute and getting away with it.
Along with their masonic masters, they have pulled of a major scam of epic proportions, they have dumped a massive debt, are still playing football.
If you honestly believe that they will still be playing at a lower level for the next few years after the BTC verdict, after the belief that they were shafted by the big bad tax man, you have more faith in the football powers than I do.
And I now even doubt they will strip titles from them.
It matters not anyways, in their minds the history is still intact, and that cannot be taken away from them.
The price they are paying is obviously worth it for them, shame doesn’t even enter their tiny minds.
Their hate will be even more concentrated on Timmy and the unseen Fenian Hand now.
In their minds they have won, and in reality they also have won.
In any other country in the world, they would be gone, consigned to the sewer they belong.
Take care out there bhoys and Ghirls.
Malaga just scored 2 in two minutes inside the first nine mins against Zenith away from home – not a bad start.
Huns died owing approx 70 million if decision went the other way they would have died owing approx 140 million. Didn’t make an iota of difference as they weren’t going to pay anything anyway. Decision has no impact on Nimmo tribunal.
Estadio is CQN’s Alasdair Gray. (thumbsup)
.
Sammi ..Scoring on 5 European Games in a Row is Not a World Record..
It’s a European Record..
Oh Wait..
Summa
Disappointed with last nights performance, the high ball up the park does not work with teams who have height in their defence, I feel this was the major reason for losing last night. We should have played out from the back and held the possession instead of punting it up the park for it to come back via their midfield in double quick time. That aside I’m sure it would be better to have a BIG party in Glasgow than a relatively smaller one in Lisbon, just my opinion.
On another note I know you shouldn’t read anything into someone’s name but I’ve had the FTT sent to me and if I was to try and guess which one of the 3 adjudicators was not a knuckle-cruncher from just looking at the names I would probably have come up with the one who was the dissenter, then again just my opinion.
Hail! Hail! Here’s looking to the 5th December
hurting huns are no longer hurting..
they are and always have been proven to be the people…
that is my take on what they have been saying today…
sad deluded hurting huns….
DeniaBhoy
17:11 on
21 November, 2012
Russian crowds do my head in, can’t sing just constant chanting.
SSN…………………Deidco are to be reinstated in Europe and will play Woolworths
.
Sammi..”Your Immortal”..
Summa of MoreProlificThanHenkeCSC
SoS
I was stuck in ole G72 yesterday..
spoke to oldtim today. he didn’y meet up with EN but as we can see EN is still enjoying Lisbon..
It has been said a number on times, particularly on RTC, that the Big Tax Case and the SFA investigation into undeclared payments to players are not interdependent.
How much tax Oldco paid to HMRC is of no interest to the Scottish Footballing Authorities, and similarly the contract details registered by Oldco at the SPL/SFA do not concern HMRC.
The real issue now is whether all payments to Oldco players for football related activites were included in the contracts registered with the relevant footballing authorities. If they were, then no problem, move along, nothing to see here. If they were not, then we should see the rules regarding these breaches applied without fear or favour.
Three hours back there was discussion about Spartak Moscow schedule. Confirmed news is that Russian FA changed their League schedule but it won’t have an influence on the Celtic : Spartak game. Before Celtic the Russians will play against Dynamo Moscow and Zenit St. Petersburg. Spartak will play last game after Celtic against Rubin Kazan. Three huge games against Russian teams and one not important game against Celtic.
As if its no bad enough when you already find orchestral manouevers in the daylight bad enough CSC
Mon the Hoops
The high ball up the park could have been more effective….
If Oor Cannonball Kid had been on from the start……
Because with his power,pace….and trickery….
He can make the most of meagre scraps of possession…..
That come his way……
And has ideal temperament…..
For playing the Lonely Linwood Striker…
When the need arises….
And he doesn’t get pulled up endlessly for fouling his marker…..
Like the Girnin’ Gary Of Macclesfield..
Get With The Plan….Mr Lennon…..
No More Sloppy Seconds…..
Parkheid Expects Better…..
So only one thing in life is now certain, as taxes appear tp an optional extra (for some)
Ben Franklin CsC
Do you support the Green Brigade action against harassment ?
So far of 850 votes
95% yes
5% no
This stat has been consistent throughout the vote, I suggest if you voted no because you feel other methods of protest should have been tried first, the GB would likely appreciate you writing to both club and authorities to register your opposition to the harassment.
If you voted no because you feel they bring it on themselves and deserve all they get, you’re likely found a petrified zombie.
Hopefully the board will take not of the depth of feeling shown on this issue and develop their strategy accordingly, this is not about PR it’s about customer services and the protection of Celtic supporters from undue harassment and is clearly unacceptable.
BSR
I remember when you used to style your hair like OMD.
Nowadays, more like OMG.
HH
EC67
MateofoverfortyyearsCSC