Who made the poppy a political symbol? For those who collected the flower from fields in France 90 years ago and many bereaved relatives at home it was a symbol of respect for loved ones lost, but it can be used politically and has been shamelessly politicised in Scotland in recent years, where the symbol of national loss has been exploited.
In itself, the poppy is not political, it occupies the same territory as the black armband, but even this worldwide symbol of respect has been exploited for political ends by footballers in the past.
I can understand why many in England are furious that Fifa consider the poppy a political symbol and have banned England for wearing it against Spain this week, but since a few live to exploit the flower for political ends, the Fifa decision is correct.
Before making the decision someone at Fifa would have undertaken cursory research into the subject. Searching Google for “poppy football” a few weeks ago would have returned this (now archived) result. I’m sure you recall; a banner at Celtic Park, which didn’t make the news on the day it was displayed, or on the next day, was badgered by someone into the news on day three. Celtic were the target of that exercise, the England team are now collateral damage.
977 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- ...
- 23
- »
philvisreturns says:
9 November, 2011 at 13:11
RobertTressell – Vote Yes for Strike Action on 30th November – I always suspected you were Mr Potato Head
Ha!
Actually I’m more like Buzz Lightyear. (
——————————————————————–
Battery Operated?
Dirtymac
I took this from RTC blog on the case for witholding titles.
Scottish football will not penalise Rangers for any misdeeds found to have occurred as regards tax in the past. The sin in football’s eyes is getting away without paying one’s dues.
==================================
Sorry but that is not my understanding of penalties for entering administration what ever the form of the penalty.
My understanding is the principle of deducting points underpins the natural justice of trying to compensate what is seen to be a club gaining an unfair advantage.
What makes this case different is the time scale and nature of the unfair advantage sought. It could be argued that Rangers from 2000 to 2007 gained an advantage over their competitors by being able to pay their players more than they could otherwise afford. So that if it was broken down year by year the extra couple of million or so that they were able to put in players pockets each year helped them win titles they might not have. This only applied in 2003 and 2005 and the fact it might only be recognised in the coming weeks does not affect the underpinning natural justice principle of unfair advantage gained..
Then from 2007 when the dependence on EBTs dropped Rangers switched to debt that is still owed to someone somewhere and is currently probably as high as it was in 2009 when it peaked at £31M. The point is that this debt is still on their books and the players it purchased are still playing in spite of the orginal potential debt from EBTs likely to present itself in the coming months not to mentioin the small tax bill still not being paid whilst their players are.
This is not a current event we are dealing with here, it is historical lasting 10 years and the natural justice behind points deduction requires it be judged and dealt with in that light.
philvisreturns says:
9 November, 2011 at 13:07
Didn’t think you were the striking type mate I expect you don’t have to worry about paying the bills for your café latte and your pension is of course diamond plated
By the greedy I mean all the bankers and politicians who had their mits constantly in the till until there was nothing left surely you don’t expect us ordinary paye taxpayers to pay for that global pilfering
Toddlers throwing tantrums….mmmm
You mean millions of hard working people going on strike for something they never had a hand in and should not pay for
27 years old studies anthropology and has dirty hair, well Phil it seems there is no dirt under your finger nails otherwise you would know that today your modern anthropologist is more likely to have a skinhead than dreadlocks….saves washing ones hair on a dig
(thumbsup old chap)
Phil
Why am I called jude2005? Its a family thingy. Thats All. SHOOOOOOOOOOOOO Cover ur work!!
RobertTressell – Vote Yes for Strike Action on 30th November – Battery Operated?
“I swear, this has never happened to me before sweetheart… hand me that D-cell…” (thumbsup)
2010 Never Again
The bolding is mine
Motherwell will continue to put pressure on Celtic
Nov 9 2011 by Andrew Weston, Wishaw Press
SO often in the past when sides have come up against the Old Firm with heightened expectations they have crumbled under the pressure of the occasion.
It’s going on a decade since Motherwell last tasted victory against Rangers and earlier this season Motherwell folded all too predictably against Celtic at Parkhead.
The Steelmen did the same in last year’s Scottish Cup final when they underachieved against a Celtic side who were far from their best.
Most of the pressure was on Celtic going into Sunday’s clash but Stuart McCall’s men were desperate to show that their lofty position of second place in the SPL was no fluke.
Ultimately, Celtic prevailed but they were made to work incredibly hard for victory, which took them ahead of Motherwell on goal difference going into the international break.
McCall wryly said at the final whistle that all talk of Motherwell splitting the Old Firm can now be put to bed.
In a sense, he was looking to take the pressure off his players by making such a statement.
However, Motherwell are not going to go away; expect them to stay on Celtic’s coat tales for a good while longer. Their performance in defeat proved this.
With Celtic travelling to Inverness next and Motherwell facing Aberdeen at Pittodrie, where they’ve enjoyed great success in recent seasons, don’t be surprised if McCall’s side regain second place sooner rather than later.
It was Celtic’s superior quality in the final third which proved the difference between the sides at the weekend.
A little bit of magic from substitute Paddy McCourt with 10 minutes remaining allowed Anthony Stokes to set up Gary Hooper for the winner. His simple tap-in took a heap of pressure off manager Neil Lennon – for now.
The way the Celtic fans celebrated Hooper’s goal showed how important a strike it was.
Before this strike, the game could have gone either way.
Both sets of supporters contributed to a cracking atmosphere from the start and the disappointment etched on the faces of the home fans as they trooped away at the end shows how far Motherwell have progressed.
Steelmen followers expected a positive performance and result. Unfortunately, they only got the former.
Motherwell more than matched the Glasgow giants for long spells but should have tested goalkeeper Fraser Forster on a more regular basis.
Keith Lasley, Steve Jennings and Michael Higdon got in the faces of their opponents from the off and their physical approach certainly put Celtic off their stride. James Forrest got some rough treatment early on and that seemed to work for Motherwell because Celtic’s stand-out performer this season had one of his quieter games.
At times, Lasley in particularly lived on the edge and it was not surprising that both he and midfield partner Jennings found themselves in the referee’s book before half-time.
It was Higdon who gave Motherwell the lead after just 10 minutes.
A well-worked short corner routine saw Tom Hateley whip in a superb cross which Higdon neatly headed home from close range. Not for the first time this season, Celtic’s defence was posted missing.
If Motherwell could have held on to their lead for longer, it might have been an altogether different affair but they were ahead for just three minutes.
Georgios Samaras flicked on a Kris Commons corner which found Stokes free to volley the ball home at the far post.
The only real chance of the second half before the winner fell to Stokes again but, under pressure from Craigan, he saw his effort well blocked by goalkeeper Randolph.
Nicky Law and Jamie Murphy linked up well for the home side and Chris Humphrey kept Celtic left-back Adam Matthews on his toes throughout the match. However, they were unable to create any gilt-edged chances and were made to pay through Hooper’s late strike.
Tim Clancy rather uncharacteristically got himself sent off for a petulant kick at Hooper near the end.
However, it looked unlikely that his side were capable of creating an equaliser even with 11 men.
With Shaun Hutchinson fit again, it could be a costly red card for the former Killie defender, who may find it difficult to dislodge the Englishman on his return from suspension.
Despite defeat, Motherwell are deserving of the well-earned rest which the international break brings.
McCall has kept a fairly settled XI this season and those such as Jennings, who has a back injury, and Steve Hammell, who was limping around Fir Park with a bad ankle knock just last Thursday, will enjoy putting their feet up for a few days.
They will go again at Aberdeen with their confidence firmly intact and they’ll be utterly determined to get what has been a terrific season to date back on track.
FIFA Ban the Poppy on England shirts.
Please remember the old lie per Wilfred Owen “Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori”
Raymac
Stirling – no more. I went to school just up the road, and my folks still live up there, but it’s been a few years since I lived nearby. Great place to grow up, curious place to go for a drink sometimes.
The quiz at the Wallace was one I went to too. Used to go with a couple of mates who were in a band and studied music – we’d be challenging right up until the final music round, every week, and then we were destroyed. The guy who ran it ran a music shop I’m sure and was seemingly obsessed with what were, to us, obscure 80’s ‘hits’.
I’d love to say that I found an affection for Stirling Albion, I never did. I can claim to have been to the old Annfield ground though. Locally, my grandad took me to Falkirk which was always crazy (saw both of Celtics absurd 9 goals thrillers from the late 80’s… perhaps one was a 7 goal thriller, cannae mind) and is the only place I ever saw a full scale street battle after a game – cup replay between Dun Utd and Motherwell. I was maybe 8 at the time and the memory is vivid. The police were lining the railway bridge and fans from either side were baying at each other, but, everyone stood aside to let me any my grandad through. All that apropos of nothing, just nice to be reminded of some of the local colour.
Auldheid
Been catching up on comments from last night and this morning and pleased to see your measured thoughts. I agree that a negotiated outcome is likely and expect a large number of your suggestions will be central to any outcome that Celtic fans can accept and the other clubs can live with. I do think we could go even further where notice periods and media rights are concerned – after all why leave any room for the other SPL clubs to mess us around again.
It is perhaps ungracious of me to note this, but, your suggestions were very similar to mine a few days prior and were met with much less hostility. Perhaps my timing was off, perhaps my tone was off, but either way I’m genuinely pleased that you were thinking along similar lines and hope your influential status will allow the debate to evolve on CQN – I think it already has, which is great.
I don’t know if Imatim is happy with this post or unhappy. Perhaps he could tell me what I should be writing today to divide opinion, my editor forgot to give me the brief… jeezo.
Not just in Scotland Paul…. Although i wonder if it would have polioized with such zeal if our Chairman was someone else…
A symbol of respect / rememberance to those who gave their lives in The War to End All Wars.
The Poppy was also a symbol of the regret and revulsion at the waste of millions of lives…
Contemporary UK foreign policy?
Resource full with an unpalatable dollop of spin that has redefined the poppy symbol as one of support.
It’s a fascinating turnaround within a couple of generations…
The FA are correct.
Paul67 –
Like you succinctly state: “Shamelessly exploited” – but not just in Scotland.
The British Government, the previous Administration and an increasingly hysterical media are all guilty as they deflect the gullible from the pressing issues of the day.
And of course one Scottish football club in particular manipulates the poppy for reasons best known to themselves.
Sad.
Phil if you are still around it seems the perfect storm is about to be unleashed I suggest you get your smart money on oil
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15658275
One time I was caught trying to abscond from school premises, I had to write the following 100 times by hand:
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
Sometimes I got lucky and the verse would be from PG Wodehouse. (thumbsup)
Thindimebhoy – My money’s shrink wrapped in dry cleaning bags underneath the floor. (thumbsup)
Someone explain to me what the need for a “negotiated settlement” is?
Which part of this statement are people not getting?
“All we are asking for is the application of the rules as they are laid down.”
What “negotiation”? What “settlement”?
Our club should be asking for one thing, and one thing only. That the football authorities in this country follow their own damned rules.
The only thing we should be discussing is what our response will be if they don’t.
This is not a complex situation. It’s a simple one. Rules exist. If they are adhered to the punishment handed out will suffice.
Three assists in two games
Thank you – for not have any games during the Poppy season.
philvisreturns
A wise move sir it would be even wiser to have the stash in mighty greenbacks
PS were exactly is your floor just in case you forget….wink
I can’t get my head round the idea of ole Philvis playin’ hookey.
It could only have been to ask Charlie Nicholas for Maggie T’s atugraph.
Thindimebhoy – PS were exactly is your floor just in case you forget….wink
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I just don’t trust people as much as I used to before that “Wallet Inspector” turned out to be a mugger. (thumbsup)
Surely a drunk mode, would be much a more useful thing than aeroplane mode on the ole iPhone?
philvisreturns…. I just don’t trust people as much as I used to
I dont blame you, who can you trust with your money these days….(thumbsup)
South Of Tunis says:
9 November, 2011 at 13:07
What about that wig?????? made wiggy smith look trendy.
Blackadder Goes Forth shows better than anything else the absurdity of WW1 and the casual sacrifice of working class boys by the self same elite that still run Britain today. Playing fields of Eton and all that.
Guess which country had the largest proportion of its young men fighting in WW2?
2010 Never Again
In he comes again. Right on cue. <;-))
Pushing the hun agenda of a negotiated settlement is likely with the huns tax case I see…..and trying to use Auldheid’s credibility to further your transparent aims. Eh! bontyboy
Do you really think you’re kidding anyone?
You’re a troll…..
Scratch to reveal? ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
Went to the chemist this morning for my Viagra but forgot my prescription so he wouldnt give me them. Once I showed him a picture of my wive he gave me 2 lots.
I actually saw a giant poppy attached to the front of a car this morning, in the same fashion as is done on red nose day.
Really was quite a sad sight with the young driver in blissful ignorance of how inappropriate his actions were
bournesouprecipe says:
9 November, 2011 at 13:49
Scratch to reveal? ░░░░░░ you have won a delicious pasty ░░░░░░░░░
Eric Riley. The future hangs on you.
BTW I love poppies and their seeds. Poppies and their products should be consumed not worn.
Maybe if we as a species had done this more in the past there would be no need for many of
us to feel obliged to wear them.
BTW BTW Every International should play the FIFA International anthem
Best way to difuse a poppy debate with a friend, colleague, stranger, etc.
I won’t be wearing a poppy for 3 weeks but I will attend church to pay my respects.
If you let me know which church you are attending I will pay my respects with you.
(silence)
LB
Ex Ludo says:
9 November, 2011 at 13:48
‘the casual sacrifice of working class boys by the self same elite that still run Britain today.’
It’s not as clear cut as that.
The highest casualty rate was among the junior officer class who were almost exclusively drawn from the public schools.
Guy went to bed after taking typex instead of viagra. Woke up with a huge correction.
Dontbrattbakkinanger – I did once get Simon Donnelly’s autograph. (thumbsup)
Thindimebhoy – I dont blame you, who can you trust with your money these days….(thumbsup)
Craig Whyte seems a plausible, definitely non-shifty character…. (thumbsup)
Thindimebhoy
Rest assured that Philvis’ dry cleaning bag of cash includes a laundry basket of currencies.
10 Questions that have no answer at the moment (batch #1)
Have HMRC been involved with any talks , premature proposals with regards a Newco hun being parachuted into the SPL ?
How would HMRC, Banks, UEFA and the ECA react to Newco hun being parachuted into the SPL ?
How can Newco hun trade without being issued by a VAT number by a satisfied HMRC ?
Why is Hugh Dallas still employed as a referee observer by UEFA ?
Why were the huns afforded a European license ?
Why has it taken over a year for Steven Cravens appeal to be held by the SFA ?
Why is the Scottish media so compliant with Old huns ?
Why has Sir David Murray been removed from Old huns imminent financial meltdown ?
How did Craig Whyte manage to pass the fit and proper persons test ?
Why has Steven Naismith not been sited for his abhorrent tackle at Pittodrie recently
Hail Hail
voguepunter says:
9 November, 2011 at 12:57
DBBIA
Why did ole Bobby D change his name?
Is he any relation to US rapper Heavy D ,who passed away over night?