I am sure Neil Doncaster’s job is full of stresses and strains but this week will probably be a breeze. Fans of every club in the league appear to be in uproar at the resolutions for an Insolvency Transfer Event to be voted on later this month. Infuriating everyone is surely better than infuriating most but leaving one group happy.
Fans of 11 SPL clubs have reacted in horror that the league seek to introduce a facility to allow a liquidated club to phoenix straight back into the top tier of Scottish football. Fans of Rangers, while along with administrators and bidders for the club are publicly opposed to liquidation, are outraged that this new facility to allow a new club entry to the SPL should carry a sporting and financial inhibitor.
For clarification: the inhibitor is there to ensure clubs have a modicum of moral hazard against gaining an unfair advantage before ditching creditors and their old skins, and emerging in the SPL with player registrations from another club but without the debts or consequences of mismanagement.
Rangers US and Singapore based bidders seem unperturbed by the proposals. Paul Murray’s Blue Knights consortium has curiously lost its tongue. Maybe this helps explain all those years when the EBTs were unopposed by the former Rangers board. Silence, not even an utterance!
There remains three possible outcomes to this issue:
The proposed SPL resolutions will be passed, allowing a Newco straight entry to the League.
The resolutions will fail and the SPL board will vote a Newco into the league anyway.
The resolutions will fail and the SPL board will deny Newco a place in the league.
Celtic Quick News first flagged this scenario in October last year when we predicted Newco would be given a parachute into the SPL, opposed only by Celtic. As the key resolution (2A) requires only 8 votes I still expect this to happen, despite the ‘Bring it on’ view of many Rangers fans to the prospect of starting again from Division Three.
As the financial penalty resolution (2B) requires 11 votes I expect this to fail and no financial penalties to be imposed.
The question for Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, St Mirren, Inverness, Motherwell, St Johnstone, Hibs and Kilmarnock (don’t tell me they’ll not try to get two votes, they have a huge mountain of debt to service and have every right to demand two votes) is, will they listen to their fans or their bank manager?
Dundee United and Hearts, like North Korea, appear convinced of their own superior wisdom and, like a North Korean missile, could head off in any random direction to demonstrate their contempt for clubs scared of providing satirists with material. They could easily vote themselves into a Gorgie-Tannadice League, if they could agree on a Gorgie-Tannadice/Tannadice-Gorgie naming convention.
For now, if you care about any of this, participate in the online SPL Fan Survey. We’ll soon find out who runs Scottish football, fans or the Bank of Scotland! One additional point about democracy, it carries responsibility. In this instance, stopping Newco means fans of all remaining clubs have to step forward in increasing numbers to buy season tickets. This is the cost of sporting integrity.
Can you write an article for CQN Magazine? Give me a shout, celticquicknews@gmail.com
Pay your bills!
1,098 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- 8
- ...
- 29
- »
Paul Lambert salutes ‘gaffer’ Martin O’Neill
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17697157
Hail Hail
TinyTim on 13 April, 2012 at 14:06 said:
TBM
Glad too
See that you are happy with your lot.
TT ………….
Cheers pal, happy to be a Tim; what is better???
As the song goes……….. we’ll meet again………. Nothing surer.
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
ht : lol Naturally, I wasn’t referring to my rapidly thinning barnet! :-)
T4
Neil Doncaster did not dream up these proposals in a darkened room with no outside influence.
Anyone charged with drafting new regulations or guidelines will immediately consult with a range of interested stakeholders (see me! see jargon!) to assess what is likely to fly (up a flagpole).
There is a strong similarity in his proposals to what Scottish journos and, allegedly, TV contracting companies, were trailing some months back. In this case the Scottish journos got something right. They foresaw the fix. In fact, they called for precisely this fix and called any alternative direction, unrealistic. They quoted un-named chairmen sources who said it must be so. They even quoted that Celtic’s Board would be in favour of this as money talks.
Now I know that Celltic’s Board will not officially sanction these proposals. What I do not know is what their genuine feelings are about them. Are they opposing them to appease the fans but would not oppose if they felt their vote against was going to be influential? Are they going to abstain to send mixed messages? Or will they campaign and say that their sacrifices in exercising financial prudence make no sense unless there is either a loss of history for Rangers or a stripping of titles during their tainted period? They will never pay back £134 million so the 3rd option of full financial reparation and apology is, in my humble opinion, completely unrealistic.
I do not care if newco comes back at SPL level. I feel they shouldn’t to make a point but It is not a deal-breaker for me.
Loss of their history or stripping of their titles are both fairer ways to go. I prefer the former but I would reluctantly, accept the latter.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo
A lot of precedents that could come back to take a mighty big bite out of a few suits arses are being advanced just recently.
I wonder how much sway the lodge has over the European Court of Justice.
Who thought Bosman would get the result he did?
Rosa Parks sure didn’t listen when they told her she’ll never win.
I wonder if within the Celtic Family there isjust one who has even a quarter of the guts that an old lady has.
Kit
I’m not sure of the dates.
They have gone in and out of admin a couple of times.
If you read the article annaan posted it tells you that they brought about the
petition to force them to appoint an administrator.
TT
cadizzy on 13 April, 2012 at 14:12 said:
TheBarcaMole
Larkhall to Dubai?
Did you have to change buses?????????
Aye, Larkhall to Stonehouse to EK, then EK to Ayr and train to Prestwick and flight to Abu Dhabi via somewhere… Limo to Dubai and last orders in the Dubs with the legends………
Would have detoured to KSA if we had known you were up for the gig…….
What part of the above is embellished????
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
SFTB
if they abstain stating the abhorrent opportunism of the proposals then it will be crystal clear.
The right thing to do under the current rules
is to throw RFC out of the league and STRIP them of their titles
It is not an either or situation here.
Nothing to negotiate and nobody to negotiate with.
Hail Hail
Kit
we find out in a few weeks time.
I am really looking forward to it.
Hail Hail
Lennon said: “Look, I’m not going to comment on that at the minute.
“I think it’s only fair that we wait and see how things develop whatever happens to Rangers over the next two to three months and when that does happen or it materialises then I will comment on it then.”
hamiltontim on 13 April, 2012 at 12:43 said:
I’ll avail of that .
Paul you are a gentleman. Thanks for your help. HH
The MSM perstering Lennon for a quote about the huns to try and get a cheap headline is no surprise, perhaps if they asked the right questions of those involved in this scandal the huns wouldn’t be in this mess.
Give them nothing Neilly bhoy!
HH
Hi Paul,
Seems an odd date to have a vote, we have a promoted team that cant take part, although these changes will obviously effect them and we may well have a relegated team voting, although these changes won’t effect them.
Why the undue haste?
They are stealing the vote of the Chairman of Ross County.
I say NO!
Don’t Rob Roy McGregor!
*After a busy morning JC sits down to eat a sandwich and catch up on CQN……. Reads about Dick Byrne’s dick burn ……… Feels nauseous…… Puts half-eaten sandwhich in the bin and returns to work*
I have committed a cardinal sin – despite being a Tim, I completed the online SPL survey and petition and have named my team as Aberdeen. I feel this is legitimate as I attend many AFC games and am therefore a supporter of sorts.
I think it would be good for a range of supporters to express concerns – others completing the online survey may wish to consider this?
UEFA announcement re RFC/SFA
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17700729
Thi scould be summarised as “pass the buck [and who is this man Alex Thomson asking all these questions? But not necessarily.
The job of applying FFP principles via Club license has always been left to the National Associations so UEFA are not going to step in until something that goes against FFP is raised.
What has been established beyond reasonable doubt is that the SFA can veto the SPL proposals by applying Club Licensing rules, specifically Section 8 that deals with Financial Matters.
Rangers already fall foul of 8.1.1 having submitted no Audited accounts for last year ratified by an AGM , which is the lowest Entry level requirement, that is quite simply the SFA are not applying the rules now, but should be well aware that they are not or Nimmo has not done his job.
The interesting thing is that to get a licence not only would Newco have to satisfy 8.1.1, they would have to satisfy 8.1.2 that requires the previous years audited accounts (see above) and the accounts for the two years prior to that (3 year audited accounts).
Quite how a New Club (assuming we are talking of a club that is emerging from liquidation of the previous club) can satisfy 8.1.2 is difficult to see UNLESS the rules are set aside. At this point UEFA should want to know what justifies setting such rules aside. Is there a precedent? What has happened before when a new club applies for an SFA licence, do they just apppear out of the blue or do they have an acceptable record of playing football at an appropriate level?
Beneath all this is the licensing is intended to protect clubs from other clubs going belly up during a competition, so somehow Newco have to provide something other than the past three years accounts (since they cannot) and will have to provide projections instead.
Who decides if these projections are sensible, what assumptions do they include, will Ticketus still be looking for a cut from Newco under some deal. What conditions will the SFA set on granting a licence to a Newco whom they have no reason to trust?
To grant a Newco a license the SFA will have to find a way of ignoring the club licensing rules and getting UEFA to approve. If UEFA do approve they are in effect giving approval to Rangers tax avoidance strategy that includes use of insolvency law to make it “legal”.
They will also be failing to apply fair play to the clubs who have operated under the rules if they sanction a change and this is where Celtic should have something to say. What is the point of FFP if it is not fair?
No UEFA are not going to be able to pass the buck on this one, not without an appeal against the SFA failing in its duty.
Late here, catch up tomorrow when I can read back through all the posts at my leisure…………Good Night and God Bless all ‘CQNrs’………
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
Houl yer wheesht
If everyone from the bus has one, which they should IF we get there, then it’s yours then mate.
Setting free the bears …… The Celtic Board are of the same mind as us fans, and have made that quite clear….. Have you been away for a while ….?…… (just kidding) ……… There is not an issue with our Board, who have, unlike others, behaved impeccably throughout this farce……..and who are serving the Celtic Family very well….
Interesting take from the Livingston Chairman
“McDougall: clubs may find appeal in newcos
Derek Miller
Gordon McDougall, the Livingston chairman, believes Scottish football would be at risk of losing all credibility if a Rangers newco is allowed to start afresh in the Clydesdale Bank Premier League.
Under proposed rule changes that will be considered by the Scottish Premier League at the end of this month, the Ibrox club could remain in the top flight even if they are liquidated.
Any new company, however, would have a 10-point deduction imposed on it for two consecutive seasons following the transfer of assets. The newco would also face a 75% reduction in SPL revenue for three straight seasons.
Livingston were punished with double relegation from the first division in 2009 after going into administration, with a consortium led by McDougall picking up the pieces. The chairman feels the SPL would be setting a dangerous precedent if Rangers are allowed straight back into the top flight as a new company.
“If, for instance, they were liquidated and got to come back, what about other clubs that have severe debt build up just now?” he said. “They could just say we’ll go to the wall and come back as whatever. And what credibility does that leave the game of football? You wouldn’t have any credibility at all. There are clubs sitting just now that don’t know how to get out of their debt and then all of a sudden, Rangers go and come back as a newco. No matter what restrictions are put on them, they might be thinking ‘that’s worth it’. It would set a precedent for other clubs to perhaps do the same thing.”
======================================
lifted from a guy called Scapa on RTC
Tiny Tim
This is the Telegraphs timeline granted it is murky.
May 27, 2009: Portsmouth reveal takeover bid from Sulaiman Al Fahim.
July 1: Glen Johnson sold to Liverpool for £18 million.
July 21: Al Fahim passes Premier League’s fit-and-proper persons test and immediately joins Portsmouth board.
July 27: Peter Crouch sold to Tottenham for £9m.
Aug 19: Club open negotiations with a consortium fronted by chief executive Peter Storrie over a possible takeover.
Aug 26: Al Fahim finally completes takeover.
Aug 28: Sylvain Distin sold to Everton.
Sept 1: Niko Kranjcar sold to Tottenham.
Oct 1: Club admit failing to pay players’ wages on time.
Oct 5: Ali Al Faraj becomes new owner after acquiring 90 per cent of the shares from Al Fahim.
Oct 7: Avram Grant appointed director of football.
Oct 28: Premier League issue embargo on Portsmouth registering new players until they pay off debts to Chelsea and Arsenal for the signings of Glen Johnson and Lassana Diarra respectively.
Oct 30: Portsmouth receive loan of around £17m from Portpin Limited, a company which is owned by Balram Chainrai.
Nov 24: Manager Paul Hart sacked.
Nov 26: Club announce Grant will be their next manager.
Dec 3: Portsmouth confirm payment of players’ wages has again been delayed.
Dec 4: Club announce players have been paid.
Dec 5: Grant earns his first points with a 2-0 win over Burnley at Fratton Park.
Dec 10: Portsmouth respond to speculation over their future by insisting they are not about to go into administration. In a statement they also reveal HM Revenue and Customs have been paid £2m and “other historical arrears are being dealt with on an ongoing basis.” The club also stresses Storrie will not be leaving his post as chief executive.
Dec 19: Beat Liverpool 2-0 at Fratton Park.
Dec 30: HMRC issue a winding up petition against Portsmouth. Club say petition is in respect of “VAT, PAYE and national Insurance contributions which either have been, or are about to be paid, or are disputed”. They outline their willingness to fight HMRC in the High Court.
Dec 31: Former owner Alexandre Gaydamak claims he is still owed £28m by Portsmouth. Confirmation that the players and staff have not been paid on time for the third time in four months.
Jan 28, 2010: Premier League lifts transfer embargo for loan and free transfers after confirming Portsmouth no longer owe other clubs any money. The league had diverted around £5m of Portsmouth’s broadcast payments direct to other clubs.
Jan 29: Storrie suggests his position is almost untenable after negotiations to sell Asmir Begovic and Younes Kaboul take place without his knowledge.
Jan 31: Transfer window closes with Kaboul and Begovic sold for £8.5m. Premier League keeps £2m of those fees to go straight to other clubs that have payments due from Portsmouth at the end of January.
Feb 2-3: All Portsmouth staff and players belatedly paid for January.
Feb 4: Chainrai becomes fourth different owner of the season, taking the 90 per cent stake that was held by Al-Faraj.
Feb 9: Talks with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs break down as fears grow for Portsmouth’s future as a football club.
Feb 10: High Court give the club one week to draw up a statement of its financial affairs as it bids to avoid the HMRC winding-up order.
Feb 17: Portsmouth present statement of financial affairs at High Court.
Feb 18: The club confirm they have asked the Premier League for permission to sell players outside the transfer window.
Feb 20: Bid to trade outside the transfer window rejected by the Premier League.
Feb 21: Storrie reveals a South African consortium is pursuing a deal to buy the cash-strapped club.
Feb 22: Former owner Al Fahim quits as non-executive chairman at Fratton Park and passes on his 10 per cent shareholding to the club’s supporters’ trust.
Feb 23: Chainrai confirms Portsmouth will go into administration if they have not found a new buyer by Feb 26. Earlier, New Zealand-based businessman Victor Cattermole admits his interest in buying Portsmouth, but says a deal will not be in place before the club’s date at the High Court on March 1.
Feb 25: The club’s owner’s spokesman confirms Portsmouth have started the process of going into administration.
Feb 26: Portsmouth confirm they have gone into administration.
March 1: HMRC challenge the voluntary administration process.
March 6: A 2-0 home win over Birmingham in the FA Cup quarter-finals relieves the pressure at Fratton Park.
March 10: Administrator Andrew Andronikou confirms 85 of the club’s employees have been made redundant but that he is receiving “enquiries on a daily basis” regarding a takeover.
March 12: Storrie steps down as chief executive, but continues to work for the club as a consultant.
March 16: HMRC officially drops its challenge over Portsmouth’s move into administration.
March 17: The Premier League confirm Portsmouth have been deducted nine points with immediate effect for going into administration.
April 10: Relegation to the Championship confirmed as West Ham beat Sunderland.
April 11: Portsmouth reach the FA Cup final with a 2-0 victory over Tottenham after extra-time in a semi-final at Wembley.
May 15: Beaten 1-0 by Chelsea in the FA Cup final at Wembley.
May 20: Manager Grant resigns following the end of the season.
June 1: New chief executive David Lampitt takes up his role.
Jun 17: Tax officials insist the club still owe £37m in unpaid bills to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).
Jun 18: Steve Cotterill signs a three-year deal to become the club’s new manager.
Jul 15: HMRC lodge papers in the High Court to appeal the Company Voluntary Agreement with Portsmouth, which could prevent the club exiting administration.
Aug 5: HMRC lose their case in the High Court and say they do not intend to appeal, clearing Portsmouth to begin the Championship season at Coventry on Saturday.
Aug 7: Season starts with a 2-0 defeat.
Sept 24: Pompey beat Leicester 6-1 at Fratton Park to register their first league win of the campaign.
Oct 19: A fourth win in five Championship games – the other was a draw – moves Pompey to within five points of the play-off places after 12 matches.
Oct 22: Portsmouth issue a statement claiming “it appears likely that the club will now be closed down and liquidated” by the administrators as they are unable to support the continued trading of the club.
Oct 24: The Football League agree Portsmouth’s exit from administration on the condition that owner Chainrai cannot take any capital out of the club until all of the creditors are repaid.
Oct 29: Portsmouth confirm the appointment of Chainrai as the club’s new chairman.
Dec 16: Portsmouth manager Cotterill’s selection problems hindered further as club can’t afford salaries of Richard Hughes and Michael Brown.
June 1, 2011: Portsmouth have another set of new owners after Convers Sports Initiatives, controlled by London-based Russian businessman Vladimir Antonov, confirm they had bought the Fratton Park outfit following approval by the Football League.
Oct 14: Cotterill leaves Portsmouth to become Nottingham Forest’s new manager.
Nov 10: Pompey confirm Michael Appleton has signed a three-and-a-half-year deal to become their new manager.
Nov 23: A Europe-wide arrest warrant his issued in Lithuania for Antonov, the joint owner of Portsmouth, for alleged forgery.
Nov 29, 2011: CSI, the company that bought Portsmouth in June, goes into administration following the arrest of its main shareholder, Antonov.
Jan 24, 2012: Portsmouth issued with a winding-up petition by HM Revenue and Customs over an unpaid tax bill of £1.6million.
Feb 13: Portsmouth apply to go into administration for the second time in two years and face incurring a 10-point deduction from the Football League.
Feb 17: Portsmouth are separated from relegation by goal difference alone after the stricken Championship club suffer an automatic 10-point penalty for collapsing into administration under the weight of a £2m tax debt.
Feb 22: Cash-strapped club forced to make “a number of redundancies” to help aid their battle for financial survival.
March 1: Portsmouth administrator Trevor Birch reveals club may not be able to complete the Championship season. Birch says Pompey will not receive parachute payments from the Premier League as they will go straight to former owner Gaydamak.
They were insolvent in all but a court judgement.
Awe Naw
“is to throw RFC out of the league and STRIP them of their titles
It is not an either or situation here.”
In my scenario, both of these are effectively done. Rangers do not need to be thrown out of the league because they are Dead. It is newco to whom we must take a stance. If newco accept that they are not Rangers and have no history, they can start at any league they want. I agree that being out of the SPL helps to draw that distinction but it can be done with moral force even if they, and I mean newco not Rangers, are in the SPL.
My worry is the Fiorentina precedent, where the Italians (who by the way felt that Juve were not too big to be relegated) alowed Fiorentina Viola to buy back their history. What price would be set by the Scottish press and SFA for Newco to buy back the titles won by Rangers? Would it be th £134m they owe or the £1 paid to buy them?
Afternoon all.
Just taken delivery of Kevin McCarra’s Celtic. One quote on the back cover will suffice for now “Even with the financial restraints they have at the moment, Celtic are one of the top ten clubs in the world. They could easily be in the top three.”
Buoyed by that thought, could anyone point me in the direction of the supporters’ survey. I think we should all fill this in. Let’s do what we can to stop this chicanery.
A woman scorned and all that…… Don’t pi$$ of the wife!
Auldheid
when the BTC appeal decision comes through can Campbell Ogilvie stay in situ and preside over anything with integrity?
I do not think so but I think the EURO 2012 will prove a healthy distraction for Newco
Hail Hail
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 13 April, 2012 at 14:18
Unless HECTOR steps in…
Nowt interesting or new happening today?
How about we start thinking about Sunday?
Could be a belter of a game. As always I am slightly anxious about it. The players will have been partying on Saturday night, maybe Sunday too. Lenny and his backroom chums have been to see Stan and involved in a charity walk.
I am hoping the focus is there. Hearts are always capable of giving us a game. They also need a damned good thrashing.
Any new injuries for us? Are we still waiting on Broonie?
How is Izzy? I’d love to get Charlie back in at CH with Matthews at RB where he can play a bit! Or are we better leaving Charlie Loovens and Wilson in the team to cope with the high ball that Hearts may employ?
Has the makings of an interesting game and looking past the continuing borefest that rangers fc (in deep doo doo) has become it is always nice to have a semi final to look forward to.
Interestingly the 88 semi final against Hearts was also played on Grand National Weekend if memory serves me right.
67 Heaven
“Setting free the bears …… The Celtic Board are of the same mind as us fans, and have made that quite clear….. Have you been away for a while ….?…”
I wish I could be so sure. Paul 67 hinted early on that there was dissension within the Celtic Board and that it would surprise us which members were on the same side as the fans.
Now I guessed, and I mean guessed, from this that Peter Lawwell opposed the soft-landing for newco but that other members of the Board, possibly Mr. Bankier or Mr. Riley, were in favour. I have heard nothing since to let me or you know of the definitive view of the Board majority. They may have reasons for their silence but they are getting harder to discern.
RT
Semi final in ’88 was indeed Grand National Day.
SFTN
No Rangers FC SHOULD ALREADY be thrown out of the league. You fall into the trap of waiting for their death. Their death is irrelevant.
Even after death the officially tainted stuff that can be proven should be removed from the history books.
Newco cannot even dream of a trophy yet and any past ones belong to Rangers FC R.I.P
Newco can join any league they want … or any league they would be accepted in and take their place in the queues of applicants
Hail Hail
SFTn = SFTB .. sorry
sixtaeseven:
Hector is David Cameron
Hail Hail
RobertTressell
What might give us a slight advantage on Sunday is that half of the baby huns first team are that they one yellow away from being banned from the final…thats why Norris has been named as MIB to readdress that advanatge
Hail Hail
Awe Naw
But I think they are dead already?
it is just like the Old kremlin with Andropov/Chernenko etc;
They are too scared to tell the masses.
I was wondering what the N stood for :-)
hamiltontim on 13 April, 2012 at 15:00 said:
RT
Semi final in ’88 was indeed Grand National Day.
———————————————————–
HT – Good to know my memory isn’t totally shot. Anyway, coincidences: 88, grand national, hearts in semi final – has to be Gary Hoopers day – No 88 on his jersey……….
I shall contribute to my local bookies retirement fund over the weekend anyway. Hooper for a hatrick.
tommytwiststommyturns.
Looking for a favour.Going on holiday early tomorrow,And would like to get my tip on.Been looking at the form and a horse that was 4th last year,3rd the year before, and 4th the previous year to that,must have a chance.State of Play good EW bet.50/1.now. could you put it up for me.
Will HMRC reveal the outcome of the BTC, as and when it is decided or will this be made public only when it is politically the “right time” to do so perhaps with consideration to Duff & Duffer’s agenda? In other words is there a chance they will withhold the declaration of the result of BTC for any reason?