It all seems a bit cloak and dagger to suggest that pyrotechnics are smuggled into football grounds inside flags and banners. I’d always assumed the ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique would have been the delivery mechanism, not that I’ve any experience of the subject.
Flares have been an increasing menace at football games across the UK in recent years, including earlier this season at a Europa League qualifying game at McDiarmid Park, which passed off without mention in the media, but police have previously limited their interventions to lectures and the occasional arrest.
Football clubs are dependent on Police Scotland for safety licenses for games, and in their wisdom, the police have determined this action will remove one method of entering a stadium with pyrotechnics and discharging them without detection. The ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique remains, as does ‘light it while pretending to tie your laces’. Jumpers and tie-up shoes are the real enemy here.
This is an arbitrary over-reaction to the criticism Police Scotland came under for failing to properly police the vandalism at Fir Park, it will not prevent anyone intent on letting off flares inside a football ground from doing so. Over-reacting after under-policing is a well-known phenomenon. Going after flags and banners feels provocative. Coincidence?
You’re likely to find out if you’re in a provocative mood on Thursday; Police Scotland will know that provoking a crowd seldom quietens things down. The reaction to Fir Park made me hopeful that we’d seen the last flare from the Celtic support, now who knows? We’re deep in muscle flexing territory here.
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I think I’ll make a banner saying ‘Kick Racism out of Football’…that might gie the polis something to think about…
HH
No Flegs No Banners No Bunnets
The decision is madness and it would never stop any flares/smoke bombs being let off, however rules are rules and fans should abide by them no matter how stupid or ill thought out they are. The MSM are all waiting for a field day, don’t give them it. keep up the good work elsewhere and focus on that (food banks etc).
The offensive behaviour act or what ever it is will soon cease to exist so until then, fans should behave and follow suit as the club (us as a collective) will only be punished for it.
Personally I think pyrotechnics,flags, banners bring much to the game as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody else physically then carry on, the political side of things should never be a concern to anybody either, people are far too soft these days (I’m only 25) but we live in a free country with free speech supposedly, words are words and wont harm anybody, lets get real its a banner or a flag or a bit of smoke.
PS will Celtic for the next home game be removing that massive banner that covering all the seats?
This is interesting – that the ban and its application is ludicrous is as close to universal agreement I’ve seen on this site for a long, long time.
BIG WAVY
That might be ok in Perth,Australia,at this time of year!
They’re all a bit funny over there apart from members of The Bruce Society.
neganon2
12:46 on 23 December, 2013
You little liar…….
St Johnstone offering refunds.Tickets can be returned before 5 o’clock Today, before 2 o’clock tomorrow or the day of the game 01738455000
bournesouprecipe
think of all the pyros and capri suns they could have sneaked in under their bunnets…
bringbackfergusCSC
poaloantony
Nope ,just the one .
HH
13:06 on 23 December, 2013
bobby murdoch’s curled-up winklepickers ………fc not plc
11:43 on 23 December, 2013
JUNGLE JIM 1128
Did you ever imagine that you would feel so let down by the board that you would feel that you have to question not only their actions but also their motives?
Having met you,you don’t strike me as the militant type,but definitely someone who knows the difference between right and wrong.
I think that the same description applies to most people I have met on here. Yet I am seeing an increasing number voicing their disillusionment,people whom I would have considered to be content as things are.
Obviously not now. That the passive majority are speaking out in increasing numbers should be a wake-up call to the board.
By not defending our fans-NOT ONCE,BTW!-and accepting every criticism and trumped-up or exaggerated charge laid against them,the board have made a big mistake.
Because we have realised that the “them” that are being vilified is actually us.
————————
You hit the nail on the head with your post.
I consider myself as a passive celtic fan, probably age related;(
I listen to my son and daughter, they are totally bewildered by the treatment of the younger fans at Celtic park.
I don’t do Facebook or twitter, my kids do. They are fed up with the overhand treatment meeted out to the younger fanbase…they maybe need reigned in a bit but this is overkill.
Let the young express their opinions within reason as we did in our day, or they will find other ways to occupy their minds and their enterprise… To Celtics loss.
Summa of Sammi, spot on. The faithful, to a man (or woman), remove said togas to reveal a message with political and religious overtones (or is it The Undertones?)… reading Merry Christmas to the SFA and the Perthshire Constabulary. Then they all turn their backs and engage in a giant huddle, showing the aforementioned authorities up for the arses that they are.
Hmmph. The bare-faced cheek of it all!
rc
If they’ve any sense they won’t go starting on the ole Battered Bunnet.
Try skewering a Capri Sun in the Jungle when the thunder is back.
Paul67:
As you point out, the stick it up your Jumper would be the more sensible approach but like you I have no experience or never will have the urge to take a flare to a game, far too dangerous.
I was at Firhill this season and had a perfectly good pairs of Trainers ruined by said Flares. I got a bit of slagging when I made my point on here about Flares. I was lucky, it could have landed on my person and could have been injured, thank God my Trainers can be replaced.
As corkcelt has already posted Flags can be a nuisance but what harm do they do, they can’t hurt you. Police Scotland will be looking for the usual suspects carrying flags. It is time for the older generous to take up Arms so to speak and carry the flag on Thursday, can you imagine the Sheriff’s question…and tell me Officer what was the accused doing? He was carrying a Celtic Flag. Did he have any offensive weapons, Flares or the ilk? Did they have any offensive words or political words on the Flags?
No sir…the Sheriff retorts…they have won the league again indeed, they have won the day.
Carry your Flags Bhoys and Ghirls on Thursday, do not have them on sticks, do not have any offensive words and please do not have any pyrotechnics.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
roy croppie (13:11), people could also opt for one that would surely get UEFA’s approval…
“Nelson Mandela, you’ll never walk alone”
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 10h
http://billynowell.com/2013/12/23/hairy-tale-of-oldco-by-billy-nowell/ …
Planet Fitba has a Christmas No 1 from the outrageously talented @billynowell
No more entries required this is it!
Lennybhoy
I guess the practicality is that the flag will not be allowed to go into the ground as per ticket conditions and will all sit in a crumpled heap available for pick up after the game. I wouldn’t want us to drive a confrontation with the police by resisting and I know our detractors would love the visual images of celtic fans fighting police. We shouldn’t give our enemies any opportunity.
This is a ridiculous decision in a land where that’s becoming the norm. You’ve got to have faith that this will be called out but we have to be smart.
Boycott the ground and pour into Celtic Park and watch the match on the telly with our own.
Auldhied,
From last thread, JPT has a horrific job in the current climate, i really feel for him.
For his job to be a success he needs his line management to seriously engage over the issues, i dont think they are, unfortunately he will be a lame duck through no fault of his own.
We are quickly reaching a point of no return for a number of supporters as has been said before if guys like Eddie Toner are saying enough is enough then we really are in deep deep trouble, the first thing the club has to do is acknowledge this and engage with supporters, not PL dictating to the supporters bodies actually listen to the fans concerns.
PL and the like really have no clue what its like to support Celtic home and away in 2013, they love in a bubble where by they are detached from the realities of being a football fan in the current climate, perfect example – ticket pricing over the festive period.
For JPT to be in any way successful he needs support from within the club and as i say i dont think they are giving him very much if any.
gebhoy
What about a flag that says “Ban all flags”? That would confuse the average Perth PC no end.
Auldhied,
From last thread, JPT has a horrific job in the current climate, i really feel for him.
For his job to be a success he needs his line management to seriously engage over the issues, i dont think they are, unfortunately he will be a lame duck through no fault of his own.
We are quickly reaching a point of no return for a number of supporters as has been said before if guys like Eddie Toner are saying enough is enough then we really are in deep deep trouble, the first thing the club has to do is acknowledge this and engage with supporters, not PL dictating to the supporters bodies actually listen to the fans concerns.
PL and the like really have no clue what its like to support Celtic home and away in 2013, they live in a bubble where by they are detached from the realities of being a football fan in the current climate, perfect example – ticket pricing over the festive period.
For JPT to be in any way successful he needs support from within the club and as i say i dont think they are giving him very much if any.
gebhoy
BigChipsUK – There are only two SPL teams in Glasgow… Celtic and Partick Thistle
would be good to get a snap of that banner being confiscated by the Perth police.
hh
pauloantony
13:05 on
23 December, 2013
Are flags banned from every ground In Scottish football?
Nope just us
If our travelling support want to box clever on boxing day I think they should take up the offer of a refund from St Johnstone.
Nothing would send out a louder statement than thousands of fans returning tickets and empty stands for the TV cameras. Perhaps some sort of jumper statement like the famous “sack the board” line of fans in the terracing in the 90’s.
What annoys me most about this is the action or rather inaction of Police Scotland when Ajax were in town a couple of months ago. Rampaging through the streets, smashing property. I personally saw a bunch of them drinking Barcadi from a glass bottle on the street and rather than confront them the Police were practically high fiving them.
Fast forward to now and Timmy will be arrested for taking a flag into a football stadium on Thursday. Utterly absurd. It would honestly be hilarious if you read about this happening abroad.
Like Paul says, banning flags to prevent flare being brought into the stadium is like something you’d read on the Daily Mash site. When there was a problem with alcohol related violence at grounds in the 80’s alcohol was banned. They didn’t ban flags which could conceal bottles of Babycham.
If St Johnstone are hit in the pocket with this you can bet the policy will be ditched in the future.
pauloantony
13:05 on 23 December, 2013
Are flags banned from every ground In Scottish football?
——————
Only the green and white ones… Peado free in division three is ok… As is keep ulster Protestant …maybe if I dress my kids up in armed forces uniforms before going to the game, I can sleep easy.
Avenging Angel @AvengingAngel10 8m
@TheClumpany @stevendoyle75 Could Fc Newco be in soapy bubble with hmrc again ? Rumours of unpaid paye . #Hmrc #Hector
I’ have spent the weekend puttin’ the finishin’ touches to my ‘God Bless Police Scotland,
They Do A Difficult And Sometimes Thankless Job, In Very Demanding Circumstances.
And Also Police Horses
And Police Dogs’
banner, and now it seems I have laboured in vain.
LENNYBHOY
I’m not personally in favour of flares,and your experience is a good reason why that is so.
They aren’t wee sparklers like a Nov 5th,they are proper pyrotechnics. Dangerous enough in the hands of trained personnel,but wildly irresponsible if not.
Dump the flares,fellas. Please.
They are an accident waiting to happen. And happen to a fellow CELT!
Big Chips UK 13.23,
There have been a few clever slogans suggested.
None better than that one……
“Nelson Mandela, you’ll never walk alone”
SIPSINI
Cheers,bud. Never scared to be a voice in the wilderness,but misery loves company!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xVQTKSWULu8
Flags are not just for Christmas..
Seems I’ve just figured out what the blue touch paper at the front of me bunnet’s for
That might have been slightly amusing if the correct link had come up!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SfkvPnjb9hs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSfkvPnjb9hs
Given that pitch-side hoardings are being replaced these days by electronic advertising panels/screens/whatever they are called…
We could write ouor names into the history books by being the first football fans in the world to introduce a similar concept to football “bannering”. It’s probably too short notice to do it on Boxing Day, but perhaps we could get it sorted for New Year’s Day?
Some IT programming Bhoy(s) could come up with a tablet/android/ipad app that allows an image (of a footy banner) to be sliced & diced across an ‘x’ by ‘y’ block of seats in the stadium, so that if fans in all those seats hold their gadget aloft the screens all combine to make a tifo-type display.
Given the relatively small size of the screens it would probably have to be a fairly simplistic one colour per screen effort, and it would be virtually impossible to ensure that all or most of the spectators in that block had a device, but who knows, perhaps something could be coordinated through the club, with them providing suitable electronic devices (perhaps very basic electronic screens designed solely for this purpose?) and stewards collecting them in after the display.
21st century footy banners R-us…
Then again, an even easier way for fans to get around any banner ban would be simply to utilise tifo cards.
Watched the Milan derby last night. Great game and they even let off some big big bangers!!!
Spot on for me this:
Phil Gordon, The Times
Celtic 2 Hearts 0
It was almost a modern-day nativity story. Parkhead, rather than Bethlehem. Yet, a trail of people followed the shining floodlights on a gloomy Saturday, rather than a star, to reach the east end of Glasgow and leave their modest gifts.
No gold and frankincense, simply tins of soup and packets of rice. The thousands of ordinary Celtic supporters who turned up with either a tin in their pocket, or plastic bags full of provisions, helped to boost a charity food drive for those who live in the very shadows of this huge stadium.
Celtic were created by this very reason 126 years ago, when their founder, Brother Walfrid, set up the team to provide food for the local children and unemployed. However, this initiative, before Kris Commons and James Forrest delivered a victory that maintained Celtic’s unbeaten record in the Scottish Premiership, had nothing to do with the club.
It came from the banned Green Brigade fan group. It was organised long before the vandalism at Motherwell and while Neil Lennon’s side were playing on Saturday, those banned supporters were ferrying all the food back to the nearby Calton Parish Church, a local Church of Scotland, to provide donations to the Trussell Trust food bank.
All of this was word of mouth. The food drive received no official help from Celtic, which has broken up the singing section inside Celtic Park where the Green Brigade used to be found on a Saturday afternoon. Of the 350 season-ticket holders in that area some 128 were suspended, pending an investigation about Fir Park, while the majority were “relocated” — scattered to the four corners of Celtic Park — even though they did not attend the Motherwell match.
So, you had the bizarre scenario of Celtic supporters outside the stadium who want to be there, but are shut out. It hardly captured the spirit of the season. Indeed, Celtic could not claim that there was no room at the inn because inside there were so many empty seats that it ought to have rung an alarm bell for the club.
The official attendance figure handed to the press of 46,058 was simply an insult to our intelligence. It was half that, if you were lucky. Forget the weather or Christmas shopping, the crowd that turned up is symptomatic of a deeper malaise at Celtic right now. They might have posted a £75 million turnover and £9.7 million in profits recently, but they appear to have lost their soul in the eyes of many fans.
The “match-day experience” is simply not enticing people to come. If they are not having their every move filmed by police or experiencing heavy-handed stewarding — that prompted complaints to the club last week — then they face an atmosphere which is like a morgue now that the Green Brigade has been kicked into touch. There is an adage that fans respond to what is delivered on the pitch, but Lennon’s side are proof that not even a wining team can create the sort of passion that Celtic Park thrives on when its full.
The leaders have gone 16 games in the Premiership without defeat. While the display against a resilient and well-organised Hearts, who needed to avoid another defeat like the 7-0 thrashing inflicted by Celtic in the Scottish Cup 13 days earlier, was not inspiring it took the excellence of Jamie MacDonald, the Hearts goalkeeper, to prevent a host of others from joining Commons and Forrest on the scoresheet.
The last Celtic team to stay unbeaten this long in the league, was the one Lennon played in a decade ago when the match before Christmas drew 57,000 to Celtic Park — real customers, not figments of imagination. That team had Henrik Larsson scoring the goals, a stark contrast to now when Lennon has only Commons calling the shots.
As the former Nottingham Forest player reminded us later, he is a midfielder, not a forward. Yet, no-one else in the team will step up to the plate like Commons. His thirteenth goal of the season, a ruthless right-foot finish from Scott Brown’s incisive pass in the 64th minute, broke the deadlock. Commons also denied Dylan McGowan an equaliser with a goalline clearance in stoppage-time before Celtic broke away for Georgios Samaras to set up Forrest’s sixth of the season.
“It seems every time we play them that Kris Commons ends up with a bottle of champagne for being man of the match,” reflected McGowan. “He got a hat-trick in the 7-0 game, scored his goal here and then did his job at the back post to stop my header. However, we got a bit of pride back considering we got beat 7-0 two weeks ago.”
In case ye missed my earlier post.
Billy nowells most excellent seasonal offering:
http://billynowell.com/2013/12/23/hairy-tale-of-oldco-by-billy-nowell/
BIG CHIPS
Even easier is just to stay away.
Drain £3-4m from the game,and double that easily from local economies.
I reckon it costs about £70 to go to an away game on average-depends on your intake,and I know you aren’t in to that-so the every match fan is looking at £1500 roughly not coming out of his pocket,£1500 that he was otherwise spending to be treated like a criminal.
From the Huddleboard:
If you want to hit them hard in the pocket
Tickets can be returned before 5 o’clock Today, before 2 o’clock tomorrow or the day of the game (recommend you go up early though)
01738455000
I’m not 100% sure on this but I undertand that St Johnstone announced the ban after Saturday’s game. Their statement said that both clubs supported all necessary measures required to fans’ safety etc etc and then there was a quote from a senior polis.
Celtic have said that a full statement on their position will be made later today.
Our fans are quite rightly suspicious of the motives behind the ban, especially since it seems that it is only this one game to which it applies. Already some are saying the board’s statement will be full of lies bah, blah, when nobody has any idea what it contains. How can a decent debate be had when folk take such a position?
From above, St Johnstone FC seem to be quite apologetic about the whole affair so it’s maybe unfair to criticise them. Let’s see what our board says before we criticise them.
As to timing, this is Monday morning. The board has had a day and a half, Saturday night and Sunday in the weekend before Christmas, to respond. Internet bampots are used to getting instant answers 24/7.