It all seems a bit cloak and dagger to suggest that pyrotechnics are smuggled into football grounds inside flags and banners. I’d always assumed the ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique would have been the delivery mechanism, not that I’ve any experience of the subject.
Flares have been an increasing menace at football games across the UK in recent years, including earlier this season at a Europa League qualifying game at McDiarmid Park, which passed off without mention in the media, but police have previously limited their interventions to lectures and the occasional arrest.
Football clubs are dependent on Police Scotland for safety licenses for games, and in their wisdom, the police have determined this action will remove one method of entering a stadium with pyrotechnics and discharging them without detection. The ‘stick it up your jumper’ technique remains, as does ‘light it while pretending to tie your laces’. Jumpers and tie-up shoes are the real enemy here.
This is an arbitrary over-reaction to the criticism Police Scotland came under for failing to properly police the vandalism at Fir Park, it will not prevent anyone intent on letting off flares inside a football ground from doing so. Over-reacting after under-policing is a well-known phenomenon. Going after flags and banners feels provocative. Coincidence?
You’re likely to find out if you’re in a provocative mood on Thursday; Police Scotland will know that provoking a crowd seldom quietens things down. The reaction to Fir Park made me hopeful that we’d seen the last flare from the Celtic support, now who knows? We’re deep in muscle flexing territory here.
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‘Spout, handle, lid of metal…what’s inside the Gallowgate Kettle?’
she’ll not let me use a bed sheet:(
HH
The Petard Bunnet
Available in all good gentlemen’s outfitters.
InnovationCSC
(Some) people on this forum are easily offended and (some) feel persecuted at the slightest control. Lets be honest who really felt let down at a game because of the lack of flags or was gutted because they forgot theirs? Probably none is answer. Flags are good for the kids bedroom walls but frankly a right pain in the backside at football matches. I can’t get upset at their absence and, especially at this time of year, I am not inclined to feel there is impending doom or sinister motives behind a sensible precaution. I also recall flags were banned in grounds many years ago cannae say it spoiled the game in fact it allowed better viewing.
I have never seen a situation so dismal that a policeman couldn’t make it worse.
Brendan Behan
GER57
Do you trust the board to be honest with us anymore?
I’m getting to the stage where I trust the government more to be honest with us.
CELTICBHOY
I have never seen a situation so dismal that Stephen Pollock couldn’t make it worse.
Brendan Behan cunningly disguised as BMCUWP
I dislike the whole flare piro nonsense but the club should be asking why we are being targeted, as we are not the only club with piros issues.
Is this going to be a permanent situation will it happen for the rest of the season?
Rod S on itv2, just started, celtic drum in prime position ✊
Solution: everyone take a Saltire.
Two high profile SNP members are local elected representatives: Pete Wishart and Roseanna (offensively blessing themselves) Cunningham.
I’d like to see how they spin “Football supporters jailed for holding aloft the national flag”.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/postcode/?pc=PH1+2SJ
With ole flags bein’ banned ground will be packed with Jehovah’s Witnesses.
DBBIA/AllAlongTheWatchtowerCSC
Itv 1 sorry
bobby murdoch’s curled-up winklepickers ………fc not plc
Like it :)
A variation could be.
I have never seen a situation so dismal that Hugh Keevins couldn’t make it worse.
On a serious point will they stop a kid going into Celtic Park with a flag at the next home game?
Bit concerned that ole bournesouprecipe will be knocked back at McDiarmid Park for wearing his green and silver quidditch robes (he’s the only player to sign for Slytherin because he liked the team colours). Problem is, if he’s not wearing his robes, how is he going to hide his wand?
‘ On a serious point will they stop a kid going into Celtic Park with a flag at the next home game?’
– just tell them he’s practisin’ for the ole Commonwealth Games.
I have always argued that the Board finds itself in a catch-22 position in relation to many of the hot topics, from splashing the cash in the transfer market to their position vis-a-vis newco.
However, I find no justification for what has gradually developed into the vilification and persecution of the club’s own football supporters. Of course its not all the supporters but a sizeable element who whatever your view of their raison d’etre deserved our support. Why? Because where we are now is the consequence of sitting on hands. Constant surveillance, arrests for singing songs, arrests for wearing t-shirts, lifetime bans, stewards ejecting fans from grounds. Now we have no flags or banners.
Kenny Macaskill hates the GB , he is obsessed by them. The grand plan is to purify the football fan (well, the Celtic fan, anyway). What do I mean? Why, the plan is to create an illusion of the all-American variety, where the family sit together wearing baseball caps, eating hotdogs and cheer “
dontbrattbakkinanger
13:58 on 23 December, 2013‘ On a serious point will they stop a kid going into Celtic Park with a flag at the next home game?’- just tell them he’s practisin’ for the ole Commonwealth Games
Good idea.
Anybody who thinks this is solely about flags are either stupid or being deliberately provocative. This is just the latest in a continuous series of measures against Celtic Supporters. First it was The Song Book, then “Political Banners”, Kettling, Dawn Raids accompanied by Press Photographers for breaking a plastic seat, constant provocative in the face filming, heavy handed stewarding and now “Ye may have won the League but ye won’t fly the flag”. Does anyone really believe it will stop here, it won’t they will continue to push and bully us into subjugation. Great Celtic men are walking away, Celtic Park attendances are suffering, we are being set up for the return of the Hun. . We need appeasers like StephenPollock like a hole in the head. I have enough of appeasers and apologists, enough is enough, Boycott the Barstewards.
The Battered Bunnet
ole bournesouprecipe will have the invisibility cloak…there’s no stopping that bhoy!
quidditchCSC
How about a huge
SAY NO
TO PYRO
banner?
I didn’t finish that….
and cheer “Go Celts Go”. A sterile non-threatening state of affairs as we imagine Sweden or Norway to be. It is of course a dreamland. But that does not stop this State trying to rule and manipulate the population via the vehicle that is the Scottish Parliament.
We must unite and stop this before the game is killed and our club with it. To start, the Board must represent the supporters and take the brave steps that we have been known to take in the past – think Kelly and Tricolour flag.
It’s not that the Irish are cynical. It’s rather that they have a wonderful lack of respect for everything and everybody.
Brendan Behan.
stephenpollock
13:43 on 23 December, 2013,
I see were you are coming from…but have to disagree, the flying of flags has a heritage with all clubs.
I don’t see any reason to stop it, as most flags are wrapped up during the game.
Celticbhoy
13:48 on 23 December, 2013
Our pyros are Marxist pyros.
That’s why they’ve been singled out.
BMCUWP
Come on Bobby. You cannot seriously suggest that Cameron and Osborne et al are more trustworthy than PL.
I am upset at our board for not taking a more supportive stance towards good, decent Celtic fans. Maybe I’m being naive in thinking it’s more a communication problem. I cannot get my head, and heart, used to the idea that the Celtic board would conspire with the hun ridden authorities to criminalise Celtic fans. I think that characters like Bankier are snobs who treat fans with disdain, but I feel that PL is a big tim. Perhap the main problem is the disconnect at the very top.
Malceye – “where the family sit together wearing baseball caps, eating hotdogs and cheer “
– Not the worst scenario you could paint as a doomsday vision. And you forgot about beer :)
St. Johnstone have just released a statement saying that after being surprised at a sudden inundation of fans asking for refunds for their tickets to Thursday’s game, they realised that there had been a typo on an earlier news release. That release should have stated that… “In accordance with the UK Government’s ban on smoking in public places, no fags would be allowed into the stadium for the match on Boxing Day.”
http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=1888
;o)
The Scottish parliament’s ideal CFC….Celtic football clones.
The flag ban is a piece of nonsense. How many of these do you see at an average away game? Mabye about a dozen I would reckon. How long would it take plod or stewards to check them for pyro? 30 seconds each time. The club needs to speak out strongly against this crap.
Roy Croppie
He certainly had it on Saturday. Managed to get 20 odd thousand fans into the ground unnoticed.
People need to be aware of what they are up against here
PoliceScotland – it’s head guy and the SNP government have invested time – loads of money and prestige in Focus and the new law
They need these to provide the results they wanted – I.e. More arrests of CFC supporters
Several attempts have now been thrown out by the courts
They are getting desperate to justify themselves
The eejits at Motherwell have given them an in and no doubt started their little minds thinking
Make no mistake – they want confrontation on Thursday – they need the arrests
They will be spending large sums of taxpayers money on Police getting double or triple time
The last thing they want is the game to pass off peacefully with no arrests
Just think how they will look if people start asking questions on how much this has cost – if there is no need for this!
As I posted last night
Don’t give your enemy the chance to fight on their ground – be smarter than plod
Better to stay away – empty grounds will get the money message home to the clubs
If you go – better just to small and laugh at the polis as they shiver in the cold with nothing to do!
HH
I’ve lit a few pyros with my fag in my time, but I must confess I’ve never tried to light a fag with a pyro.
Rod singing a cracking song now!!!1
Croppybhoy FoCUS was an Old Firm initiative.
St. Johnstone have further announced that any ticket holders for the game on Boxing Day who wish to return their tickets can still do so by going to the ticket office at McDiarmid Park between 2pm and 3pm on Boxing Day. Upon return of the unwanted ticket(s), along with any banners in their possession, customers will be issued with a voucher entitling them to free admission to Thursday’s match. Note that a £25 administration fee will be levied in all cases.
ernie lynch
14:07 on 23 December, 2013
Celticbhoy13:48 on 23 December, 2013Our pyros are Marxist pyros.That’s why they’ve been singled out.
In that case we should sing…
“Where great Lennon led us our eyes saw the bright sun of piros above”
Or
“Let the people wave their banners and their flags”
:)
Tom English for once speaking out against Sally…..
‘McCoist is still buying into Green’s version of events, which is amazing’
FROM the podium of the Rangers agm last Thursday, Ally McCoist sang the praises of the players who stayed behind after the club went into administration, saluting the likes of Lee McCulloch and Lee Wallace while aiming a pot-shot at those who left – or who “headed for the hills” as he put it. That cutting remark might have played well with the fans, many of whom will never forgive some of those who left in the summer of 2012, but it was such a one-eyed view of things.
You’d have thought that the Rangers manager would know that by slamming the “opportunists” he is basically aping a line first peddled by Charles Green, whose word counts for nothing at Rangers anymore.
“Opportunists” was Green’s word for the players who refused to transfer their contracts to newco Rangers in 2012. McCoist didn’t name these guys last week, but then he didn’t need to. Steven Naismith was one of them. The Everton player was in the papers that very day talking about how it pained him to move on from Ibrox while explaining how he felt he had no other option. It’s fair to say that the Rangers fans weren’t exactly receptive or sympathetic to their former player.
Steven Whittaker was another. And Allan McGregor. There were others but the ones Green took umbrage at in the summer of 2012 were those he could have sold for a million or two but ended up getting nothing for when they exercised their rights under employment legislation and left, rights that Green sought to deny them while claiming he had the law on his side. He was wrong about that. He was wrong about a lot of things.
McCoist was wrong, too. It was understandable to praise McCulloch for staying, but at the age of 34 was there really anywhere else for him to go, anywhere that would have paid him a salary somewhere north of £12,000 a week? He’s been a terrific player for Rangers but let’s not pretend that he was awash with alternative opportunities when all of this was kicking off.
In Wallace’s case, did he have another choice? Maybe there were clubs in for him and the news never got out. Maybe he rejected offers to go to England because he truly wanted to work his way back up the divisions with Rangers rather than test himself in the Premiership or the Championship. Maybe.
The Rangers manager can praise who he likes but carping about those who “headed for the hills” misses the point entirely. Rangers could not afford to keep them, that’s a fact. They couldn’t afford the wages. Green was always wanting to get rid of them because they were going to cost him too much money. Them staying was never a remote possibility. Green did not want them to stay. What he wanted was money. A couple of million for Naismith. A couple more million for McGregor. Maybe a million and a half on top for Whittaker and whatever else he could get in a fire-sale of the best players. And where was all the money going to go? To the beleaguered creditors? Into the coffers of the club for re-investing? A part of McCoist’s supposed £10 million transfer war chest down the line, perhaps? Or maybe he would have found a different home for the millions.
At one point during that saga, Green spoke of his anger at potentially seeing these players securing “handsome signing-on fees from other clubs, while Rangers get nothing”. He painted them as money-grabbers. This was Charles Green at his pot-calling-kettle-black, brass-necked best. Green was desperate to sell the players and when it became apparent that Rangers were, under law, entitled to no compensation the narrative suddenly changed and the Naismiths and the Whittakers and the McGregors were branded greedy and disloyal as they “headed for the hills”.
McCoist is still buying into the Green version of events, which is amazing given that the Yorkshireman is such a discredited figure at Rangers and one who made McCoist’s life at Ibrox extremely difficult. Apart from paying him more than £800,000 a year, that is.
The players who exited have been portrayed as the avaricious and unfaithful and yet they have always come across as straightforward characters who, unquestionably, performed well for the club. Green said at the time he would seek damages for breach of contract and would look for compensation from any club he suspected of offering inducements to these players to breach their contract, but there were no contracts to breach. It was more bluster from Green, but the bluster still survives to some degree and McCoist reflected it last Thursday at the agm with his veiled criticism of those who left.
It should not be forgotten that along with the rest of the Rangers squad these players had already taken massive pay cuts from just after the point of administration in February 2012 to the end of the season in May, some of them operating on 25 per cent of their normal wage. They did their bit by their club. They made a sacrifice and they shouldn’t be slated for not wanting to continue making a sacrifice in the prime of their footballing lives.
Naismith’s version of events has it that he never met or spoke with Green, that he never received any information about his vision of Rangers’ future or who was behind his group. He didn’t know what division Rangers would be in and didn’t know what capacity Green’s group had to restore order at the club. He didn’t know anything except that some clubs in England were expressing to his agent that he had a family to think about. And that the TUPE employment regulations were on his side.
In late June 2012, Naismith said a few prescient things. “How can I push forward into a new company that I don’t know anything about or any person involved in it? That was part of my thought process and led to my decision. I have concerns about who is in charge of the new club, definitely. You need to know what business you’re going to be part of. If you don’t, it’s inevitable there will be problems.”
Naismith’s fears were well-founded, as surely everybody at Ibrox would agree. McCoist chief among them, you would have to think. So maybe it’s time he revisited this whole episode and started looking at it through the eyes of his former players rather than through the prism of his former boss. McCoist has said before that he understood why the supporters would never want to see the Naismiths and the Whittakers and the McGregors back at Ibrox, even as fans. That’s unfair on the players and this mistaken attitude is one more remnant of the Green era that needs to be looked at again – and purged.
roy cropie
Good read that!!!
I am all for banning flares from football grounds, but as is hinted in the above article it appears to me that the heavy hand of the law and saturation coverage by the media on this matter seems to fall unerringly on Celtic and their fans.
Although it has been mentioned in passing that other club’s fans get up to the same pyrotechnic tricks, the coverage just isn’t the same.
Rangers fans have been guilty of this activity on more than one occasion on TV games I have watched, with barely a mention.
Perhaps the powers that be think the Ibrox club have enough problems on their plate without adding to them.
I have no problem whatsoever with the treatment Celtic have suffered in the last week if the same standard is applied to every Scottish club.
But it isn’t.
Today Police Scotland are quoted as saying that…”the banning of flags and banners won’t be the start of a blanket ban. Police Scotland have no plans to stop fans from taking banners and flags into football grounds”.
Celtic fans being the exception presumably.