When Gordon Strachan left Celtic in 2009 the overwhelming calls on CQN were for the club to go for broke and appoint Davie Moyes as manager. Again last year, when we were replacing Ronny Deila, Davie and Brendan Rodgers were Celtic’s top choices for the job.
This week Davie, one of the most awful central defenders to have played for Celtic in my time, underwhelmed West Ham fans when given the job of rescuing them from relegation.
Davie did well in his first managerial job at Preston, then rescued Everton from the failing hands of Walter Smith, taking the club on an 11-year run of what is regarded as success around those parts. Throughout his Everton era he was a hot prospect. The Manchester United job was his four years ago, but little has gone his way since. He left Old Trafford, Real Sociedad and Sunderland under a cloud in quick succession.
We could have had him before Sunderland last year and we would have been delighted at the appointment too. It may even have worked out well. Despite that, I don’t expect him to inspire West Ham to midfield mediocrity. The West Ham job is one of many wonderfully well-paid bad jobs in England. They may avoid relegation, but Davie will never be liked.
Brendan Rodgers will receive regular calls from representatives of West Ham-like clubs, with plenty of money but little hope of success. The Celtic job is far from perfect, but there are few better gigs.
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I was going to stay well clear of the poppy debate but came across this blog from 2010. The year Celtic said it would not be worn on the jersey. It ends with a poem that expresses how I feel about what has become a circus.
On 8th October Celtic made an announcement where they confirmed that Poppyscotland had requested through the SPL that all clubs wear the poppy on the shirt during the weekend fixtures of 13th/14th November 2010 around Remembrance Sunday.
The full text of the announcement can be found at
http://www.celticfc.net/news/stories/news_081010170000.aspx (link may no longer work)
Normally this would be the signal for the annual circus starring the Scottish media and the Celtic support to come to town where the former attacked the latter whilst the latter fought amongst themselves. Thankfully the final paragraph in bold for emphasis in the statement that says
“In light of Poppyscotland’s decision to carry out alternative Remembrance activities from next year, Celtic Football Club has decided that it will be giving another charity the opportunity to feature on the Celtic shirt in 2011 to raise awareness of their work. Further details of this will be announced in due course.”
suggests that this is the last time the circus will come to town.
It is ironic in the extreme that an event that is supposed to commemorate the memory of the many that died to end conflict has itself been such a major source of it. It is an episode in Scottish social history that shames Scotland and the media who used it to sell papers, increase phone in figures, maximise revenue and attack Celtic.
Celtic too have to take some criticism for not foreseeing how divisive the PoppyScotland approach to the SPL would be, particularly to our Irish support who, for their own good reasons, did not want to remember, most certainly did not want to have to remember and felt the form of remembrance in the wearing of symbolic poppy on the Celtic jersey was a denial of the freedom of choice that those who died fought to protect as well as trampling on the rights they have been struggling for since the sixties. They were not alone in some of their feelings although they too must recognise that not all Celtic supporters have had the same family history to shape their views. Respect all round.
PoppyScotland too should take pause to reflect if they had been far seeing enough and given enough thought to what they were asking of Celtic, why they asked it and if the charity they represent was best served by this idea. Perhaps they already have.
As for the Scottish media their response to the sounds of protest that came from some of the Celtic support was probably their most shameful hour (until the last three weeks) and hopefully in the third year after the disrespectful frenzy that filled the newspapers and air waves, they will mute or better still drop their criticism entirely and appreciate that not everyone wants to remember in the same way and most do not want the form of remembrance forced on them through guilt or conformity. A memory coerced is not a memory worth having.
For the whole Celtic support, whilst there is another year of the circus to endure, perhaps the knowledge it is the last and perhaps also from a degree of poppy fatigue, we will see this year’s Remembrance Sunday on 14th September at St Mirren pass quietly and respectfully not just in memory of the dead but more importantly out of respect for what they died for – a peaceful world.
The first Poppy Circus of 2008 inspired the following in its aftermath, let’s hope the message it contains inspires more fitting ways to remember and respect in the future those who died in the past.
Paying Respect – Speaking for The Dead
From the land of beyond
I watch and shake my head
At those fighting to pay respect to my sacrifice
In the way that they think respect should be paid to the dead.
I’m an unknown soldier killed in a trench somewhere
Bled to death as I watched rats drink from my ebbing earth life.
I died in the hope that all fighting would stop
NO MORE WAR.
But war takes many forms
It is not all bullets and shells
It’s not always fought in trenches either
Its most common battlefield is in the heart and minds of men.
In the last few days I have witnessed a battlefield,
I have watched the team I support dragged through the mud
By the mistaken, who have turned what was intended as a show of respect
Into yet another battlefield.
You do not respect me when you wear a poppy
You do not respect me when you have a minute’s silence
You do not respect me when you have a minute’s applause
You do not respect me when you walk out
You especially do not respect me when you try to divide a community
Then a country
With spurious arguments of what constitutes respect
And then broadcast those views to the nation
In radio and newspapers
In a manner and tone that encourages division
Division that becomes a cause of
MORE WAR.
If you think that all these are respect
You are among the mistaken.
The Poppy, the minute’s silence, the minute’s applause
These are all SYMBOLS
They have become empty symbols
Ditch them in the trench in which I died.
If you want to truly respect me
Remember why I died
LEST YOU FORGET
It was so that there would be
NO MORE WAR
And let NO MORE WAR break out
In the only battlefield that counts
In each heart and in each mind
If a symbol is needed at all
Find a symbol that unites
Use a symbol for eternity
(For eternity is where I am)
Or even the white poppy for peace
And do not war over which one!
But the best way to remember my sacrifice
Is not through symbols
It’s to cultivate peace in your heart
Your mind and your soul
So that no matter the symbol
No matter how much anyone may turn it to their particular cause
You always and truly respect the sacrifice I made.
So that there will be
NO MORE WAR
HOT SMOKED on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 5:14 PM
‘To imagine that those who fought in the two World Wars were vastly different in character from the majority today, would not stand scrutiny.’
###
I’m not so sure. Those two wars involved a real or perceived existential threat to freedom and civilization and it’s reasonable to suppose that resulted in different motivations for those signing up (leaving aside the question of conscription).
The most that can be said for those who sign up in peacetime is that they are either too daft to realise what they are committing to, don’t care , or have wrestled with their consciences and won.
Bawsman
Just a beautiful story bud.
God bless Mick
Both he and u emitomise our support
HH
BARNEY63 on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 5:40 PM
To be honest I’ve never understood the concept of War. We were taught, from an early age, killing another person was the worse thing you can do. Then a government decides it’s fallen out with another government so there’s yer rifle go an murder as many poor feckers as you can it’s alright yer allowed. Even have priests saying wire in boys. What a world.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Sums it up for me.
HH
ONEMALLOY on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 6:06 PM
I saw his VC on display at the military museum at Edinburgh castle. Not sure if it was a temporary or permanent exhibition.
Hunderbirds
Sad news about your best man.
HH
Brown and Armstrong out of Scotland team with injury, McGregor and Christie debut and KT centre half according to STV.
Ryan Jack at right back????
PHILBHOY
Yes, I will be attending the hoot, for an hour or two anyway. Ready for a drink I reckon. Think my train gets in around 1.15pm.
MODERATOR
No need to remove PHILBHOY’S post from earlier.
HEBCELT
I have met PHILBHOY previously at last years hoot. His question was not insensitive, but thanks for your concern on my behalf.
ALLPOSTERS
Thanks for your prayers and messages of sympathy.
HH
HUNDERBIRDS ARE GONE
Thanks.
I will try to get into Glasgow around the same time and will head for the BV first.
Look forward to seeing you!
I’ve been sober all week so looking forward to a beer or two.
HUNDERBIRDS
Deepest condolences, thats very sad
RIP Dougie
Oh Dear, if this was written by someone who disny like the huns, I dread to think what it would be like if he loved them, FFS……………nurse, meds needed PDQ
https://thefitbanomad.wordpress.com/2017/11/05/spectating-with-the-enemy/
ONEMALLOY…
My dad served in the HLI during his national service in the fifties.
He told me some things that happened in Cyprus, he lost a couple of mates there.
I’ve read with interest the posts today re the poppy.
I hate the way it has been hijacked and turned into a flag waving joke.
My dad wears his poppy with pride, as he should do.
My ma was buried on the 11th of the 11th six years ago and I handed out poppies as my ma lost two grandfather’s from gas in ww1, one from Tipperary and one from Donegal.
My Grandas both served in the 8th army and was lucky enough to make it back.
No hun monkey will take any high ground on me poppy wise.
Catch a beer on Saturday H. HH
Ah the oul ‘poppy debate’ season again. Can’t say I’d wear one personally and believe it should be a personal choice. However one thing that does annoy the bejaysus out of me is the oft repeated mistruth about HM forces fighting for and guaranteeing democracy and freedom and that being a member of said armed forces is / was honourable occupation. Now to the best of my recollection the only time that HM armed forces have actually fought against tyranny and oppression was during WW2, probably with the only other exception being the intervention in former Yugoslavia. Joining the armed forces to see the world and learn a trade in return for having to batter the crap out of some working class Irish lad , Afghan tribesman or Iraqi civilian doesn’t sound too honourable to me. But then again I have seen the ‘heroes’ in action – up close and personal.
nuff said
KT captaining Scotland tonight
Got a gsx 1400 bike, tank has sprung a leak.
Any bikers oan here got any ideas onhow to do a repair.
Been quoted 800 knicker fir a new wan!!!.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Hunderbirds, sorry fir yer loss.
RIP.
ERNIE LYNCH on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 6:08 PM
The most that can be said for those who sign up in peacetime is that they are either too daft to realise what they are committing to, don’t care , or have wrestled with their consciences and won.
________________________________________________
Ernie, that just about sums up your supercilious and vacuous attitude.
A more ignorant generalisation I have yet to see!
KTF
getting away from the poppy debate. mike in toronto if your lurking have you ever been to that scottish bakers on niagara on the lake. got some of the best scotch pies and bridies that ive ever tasted from that shop .and what a lovely little town.hh.
My Grandfather was an active member of the IRA.
However, my Dad, who was Irish, volunteered when the second world war broke out, as he was in a reserved occupation.
He worked for the post office on telephones.
When he went to join up he explained to the sergeant he wanted to join the Signals.
Failing that anything but the HLI.
Aye, you guessed right, so Highland Light Infantry it was.
He was wounded in Caen on D-Day plus 4. He was in Hospital in Liverpool for some months, before seeing out the remainder of the war in the Pay Corps, based in Aberdeen.
He wore a poppy.
KT’s back will be sore carrying that back 4…
VFR
Did you see Sean Thorntons post above?
Sean T
Do you know anyone who can braze ?
Should be easy enough to repair and shouldn’t cost much, an hours pay from an honest bloke
HH
SEAN THORNTON on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 6:52 PM
The price is fairly recently reasonable. A repair to a fuel tank is difficult and can be problematic if it goes wrong!
KTF
There you go now, two posts, two different answers, I know who I believe :-)
HUNDERBIRDS.
So sorry to read the news of Dougie
R.I.P.
PHILBHOY
See ya in the BV.
HUNDERBIRDS ARE GONE
Looking forward to it!
Thinking back when were were fined over £250K for tapping up Tommy Burns, I wonder when the sfa will be fining the huns for tapping up Del boy…..Oh wait
TET
Was it not £100K?
Ma memory is no very good!
VFR800 IS NOW A MONSTER 821 on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 6:56 PM
I appear to have hit a nerve.
PHILBHOY 700
I think David Niven said the same-something to do with having to wear tartan trews!
ERNIE
Do you know how to repair a leaking fuel tank on a motorbike?
If not, that’ll be a first.
Ta fir yer replies.
Could get one from the breakers but worried it could be as just rusty inside as my one.
Suppose a new one fixes it.
Will take on all yer advice.
Hail Hail.
BMCUWP
Wee yin has boarded in Krakow. Pick her up about 10ish.
Canny wait to hear her report!
THE EXILED TIM on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 7:05 PM
I think the GSX 1400 the fuel tank is “double-skinned”. The real fuel tank sits inside the outer metal casing so getting to the leak is difficult.
Also if the leak is on a joint it can mean that the whole joint is weak and may leak further. I wouldn’t fancy riding with a potentially leaking tank.
KTF
PHILBHOY on 9TH NOVEMBER 2017 7:14 PM
Brilliant!!!!
KTF
Sean Thornton – contact Fowlers for advice and pricing (0117 977 0466). They are generally very good.
KTF
That’s some honour for young KT. Captain of Scotland. He and his family must be over the moon.
VFR
I did think after I posted that a double skin would be a problem also I agree the seams are harder to deal with, years ago, mid to late 80s my neighbour used to repair bike carbs, he used to re sleave them, any carb, he was stowed out with orders from all over the world, he also had numerous people rocking up to him wanting him to repair their bikes, cos I could braze-weld I got the job of brazing petrol tanks and anything else that required brazing-welding.
HH