Malcolm Murray, the newly appointed chairman of the Newco club Charles Green hopes to establish, yesterday entertained us with his comments on punishments served on a football team suspected of cheating you for over a decade. He said:
“We’ve had giant punishments already – a European ban, a 10-point deduction, the emotional trauma everyone has suffered. I think, for the good of Scottish football, it’s much better Rangers in the SPL.”
There has been no European ban. Newco will not be eligible for European competition because it is a Newco and Uefa requires three years accounts from participating clubs. They are simply not eligible, they have not and will not achieve the qualification criteria for European football for three years.
The 10-point penalty imposed on Rangers last season for seeking protection from creditors by going into administration is hardly a “giant” punishment. It changed nothing. Rangers were second in the league when it was imposed and remained so. They released no players and went on to defeat Motherwell twice, ensuring they finished the league in second place, earning £900k in additional prize money.
As a punishment, it is the equivalent of banning Ally McCoist from this year’s 100m Olympic competition. Pointless.
Which leaves us with “the emotional trauma everyone has suffered”. Compared to the emotional trauma suffered by Dundee, Motherwell, Gretna, Third Lanark fans, recent events have been nothing more than a focus for some robust rallying calls.
Don’t even start me on the emotional cost of losing the league in 2003, 2005, 2009, 2010 and 2011, all to a team of cheats. How do you measure that? Think back to each day we lost those titles and tell me how you felt about them then and how you feel now, knowing you were cheated.
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shortly after the last time that league reconstruction was discussed by the SPL without agrrement. THe SFA then stated that if no agreement could be reached then they would step in. This could happen ans suit a lot of groups if reconstructed right. If Sevco get relageted to Div 3 which is morally right and would appease most fans groups. league reconstuction if done right could see them spend 1 season in the wilderness. We need a profesional league set up of around 32 or 36 clubs. to many so called profesional clubs , we could then have a proper pyramid system bringing in the HL league clubs and SJFA clubs that wished to join with ambitions to win promotion to the profesional set up.
Paul67
In answer to your question at the end of your article i felt very angry and let down, I could not understand how the best run/ resourced club could lose as many titles to a team on an overdraft, it all has become clear financial suicide for which they want to blame others, a compliant SFA and its cartel of referees helped when needed what we see today should have happened 3 years ago and I hope the forensic accountants involved in the investigation into their demise bring forward any evidence of trading while insolvent to the courts, for example the stadium value of the bigitdome on the balance sheet at a huge value around £120million to keep their balance sheet balanced, when it has changed hands for 5.5million during the week .Does this need to be any clearer, or have I got this wrong.
macjay1 for Neil Lennon on 16 June, 2012 at 15:07 said:
ǝsoɥ ǝɥʇ ǝɯ ssɐd ‘sʞɔıʞ ʎןɟ ɥbnouǝ (o) /o\ z ʍoɹ on 16 June, 2012 at 15:02 said:
•-:¦:-•** -:¦:- sparkleghirl :¦:-.•**• -:¦:-• on 16 June, 2012 at 14:57 said:
Education is good.
Good education is better.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Ghandi, Lord Wheatley and David Livingstone might agree with you. Would Tony Blair?
HH
Ok,i’m off to the Carnock for a Corona or 4.
Go easy fholks.
‘Bring out your dead,bring out your dead…….’ ;o)
FOREVERANDEVER!!!
Rob McLean struggling to control the direction of the debate.
I’m wholly surprised BBC Scotland TV/Radio are willing to afford Wee Jim Spence a mic on any of their programs.
Auldheid – Caught your link. Interesting.
MWD
Asked the old Lady in the shop for my money back for my Lantern
Only one clubs stands to benefit from newcohuns in SPL next year, that’s newcohuns.
How about asking all the chairmen of the clubs how they feel about RFCil never having admitted to any wrong-doing, no remorse, nothing?
They are still arguing that they are victims here.
No surrender. No decency. No integrity. No shame.
NO THANKS!
GTF forever.
MWD-Hope you feeling better .HH
Shortbread now debating the merits of Sally as a manager, is it too early to start drinking???????????
Thanks to everyone for their advice on the parking ticket. Really appreciated. You meet a lot of good souls on this blog.
MWD
Danny, don’t over post. Don’t want you to suffer post lapse prelapse or whatever ;-). And remember the ole Tate and Lyle motto:
Out of the strong came forth sweetness……….
In this case mucho sweetness mucho.
HH
Jim Spence has really stepped up to the plate in this fiasco.
He is perhaps the only real journalist in BBC’s sports department.
On the nascent education debate. I believe Castro was the product of private education, and Josef Stalin trained for the priesthood.
Long may the internal fight go on at Corruption FC.
May they never, ever, ever sort out the mess!
Auldheid http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=9574&cpage=1#comment-1461834
I totally agree that what we are dealing with here is rooted in psychopathy. I’ve argued this for years and it’s only recently that I’ve noticed that the realisation is beginning to take hold. Previously it was dismissed as “psychobabble” and worse, just as an awareness of Rangers’ cheating was dismissed as Celtic paranoia.
To answer the last question, there is NO treatment for psychopathy. It is an incurable condition.
The really important thing is for potential targets of psychopathic attack to learn to identify the characteristics of the true psychopath and to understand how to keep themselves safe.
It’s encouraging that we are now seeing the first part of that defence strategy beginning to take hold.
Honest Mistake http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=9574&cpage=2#comment-1461859
Personally, I’d counsel against recommending Jon Ronson for a number of reasons. He’s the John Terry of the field, a late arrival who has spotted a market opportunity and has quickly cobbled together his own summary of various previously published works. Some of it is accurate, some is not and Ronson can’t tell the difference.
Infinitely superior is the work of Dr. Robert Hare, the undisputed leader in the field of research into psychopathy. Especially recommended is his investigation into psychopathy in the corporate boardroom, “Snakes In Suits.” On a par with Dr. Hare is Martha Stout Ph.D and “The Sociopath Next Door” has a firm grasp of the subject.
For the layman, there is no better introduction to the fundamental principles than “Puzzling People:The Labyrinth Of The Psychopath” by Irish writer Thomas Sheridan (absolutely NO connection to Tommy Sheridan!!!).
Thomas has invented the extremely useful term, the “Psychopathic Control Grid,” which clearly illustrates how different compartments of a system, each afflicted by it own psychopathic mindset, advance a shared agenda. The Rangers scandal is a classic example, involving as it does the Rangers boardroom, the Bank of Scotland, the offices of the SFA, the referees committee and by no means least, the radio, television and newspaper industries.
The crucial insight here is that not everyone who is involved in the Psychopathic Control Grid is a psychopath – far from it – but that the agendas which are supported and advanced are directed by a psychopathic mentality. That’s why so many people who are otherwise good people end up doing bad things.
Not so Radio Shortbread. The liquidator has power to undo dodgy deals to pals if the assets have been sold of too cheaply.
SOAL
I hope she told you aboubad workman and tooletc. ;-)
HHst
TTTT
When Henry McLeish proposed league reconstruction last year the fans
were in agreement but very few clubs were in favour.
The big tax case was very much on the horizon.
Like yourself I have maintained since that reconstruction was put
on hold as a method of returning the now dead/zombie fc to the
top table with minimum (1 year ?) fuss.HH
Paul,
My weekly copy of New Statesman has just arrived and there is an article by the Observer’s Kevin McKenna titled….
“Once a symbol of Protestant power, the Glasgow club is the latest great Scottish institution to face ruin.”
I quote….” it has been claimed that that the subsequent revelations of financial incontinence are largely a triumph of the new, very articulate and extremely well-informed citizen journalism.
“… one cannot deny the impact of two blogging sites, Celtic Quick News and Rangers Tax Case. Each is written elegantly, with a forensic understanding of the esoteric world of corporate insolvency”.
The CQN star is on the rise!
Congratulations.
I’m going to need a Tin Hat hear, possibly even an armoured truck or even a Tank but…
One of my worst ever days as a Celtic supporter was Le Merde signing for the Huns way back in 89/90 after being at CP re-signing for us only the week before. The signing of Le Merde went some way to out demise and was a knife in the heart of our support after his demonstration of his love for Celtic.
If FF does go. I’d try to sign McGregor. That one act would destroy many a Newco supporter and at the same time we’d get a decent keeper.
MWD Grenade!!!
paul 67
amen to that ! the headline if want to call it that “thugs and thieves” from the daily hun years ago strangelly and ice cream not been heard
once ! thats what they are THUGS AND THIEVES!!
ItaliaBhoy on 16 June, 2012 at 15:25 said:
On the nascent education debate. I believe Castro was the product of private education, and Josef Stalin trained for the priesthood.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Something that Josef shared with John Knox and the Borgias
Nowt as queer as folks and awe that……………
HH
Bada Bing – doing OK buddy. Thanks.
Row Z – defo choose the erong time to try to stay away. Every time i see a news report on TV or hear one on the Radio i find im drawn back to the Timternet for balanced view. Jim Spence and Tom English apart.
MWD
ItaliaBhoy on 16 June, 2012 at 14:51 said:
Gordon J
It was mentioned a few weeks back and I think it a practical way out of the dilema that balances sporting integrity requirements with reducing the commercial cost. As long as it is accompanied by changes of personell and practice at the SFA/SPL and punishes Oldco, I can see it being accepted.
ǝsoɥ ǝɥʇ ǝɯ ssɐd ‘sʞɔıʞ ʎןɟ ɥbnouǝ (o) /o\ z ʍoɹ on 16 June, 2012 at 15:09 said:
His intentions were marvellous and well intentioned,but he is the classic example of
” Power corrupts etc. etc.”
Who could not have wished to excise the oligarchy of Batista…….and he had the unquestionable support of the majority of the people,with,of course some exceptions.
He subsequently visited the U.S. where he denied his communist sympathies.
Not a good move.
The upshot was his lurch to the Soviet Union and subsequently the missile crisis which is why he will always remain ” non grata ” with the U.S.
They,of course, are not without guilt in these proceedings. Gringo arrogance didn`t go down at all well South of the Border,and still doesn`t.
Castro attempted to open diplomatic relations with America, who placed an embargo on Cuba, Castro tried to open diplomatic relations with all the western powers, but America blocked all attemps with threats of embargo. America forced Castro into the USSR’s influence.
America did and still refuses to acknolwledge peoples right to self determination, capitalism refusing the right of choice, it really is silly
Private Education? Training for the priesthood?
What’s with this belief in single causal factors?
We are all products of complex links of chains in our family and culture. Psychological Research may be simple but it should not be simplistic.
Paul67:
…Newco club that Mr. Green hopes to establish…; this suggests that you doubt he we do so?
On their punishment thus far:
European competition is not a God given right, it is not bread and butter it has to be achieved, dare I say fairly. The man who will eventually lose his own personal title for cheating and not paying her majesty her taxes is on record as saying he did not budget for europe.
Ten point deduction, you are correct, an ineffectual punishment and one, which was imposed for going into administration, nothing to do with cheating.
£160, 000 fine, which they have no chance of paying was for the way that Mr. Whyte did not run the Club. Will this be deducted from their £900,000?
I get so angry when I hear they have been punished enough, so angry.
If any Club were to do what the club that existed 1872-2012 (only administration not liquidation) and get a 10 point deduction a fine and not play in Europe for three years I would take it every day of the week.
All this Mr. Whyte, Mr. Green reminds me of Reservoir Dogs, how apt that film was about robbers, cheats.
Kick them out of the SPL be gone with them.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Greece should liquidate the country, wipe out their debts and call themselves The Greece. Or does that only work in Scotland?
MWD
I know what you’re saying but you need another character for that to work. Not him.
angelgabriel – others, including Auld Heid I think, also mentioned the possibility of the compromise. I think it will happen, although I have no idea how many teams will be in each division.
I know McLeish proposed a top ten, but if there’s to be change then I would go for two larger divisions, with a regional set up below that. Similar to the Italian set up….although the mirrored corruption is merely coincidental !
MWD – the Beast? Time to adjust your meds! Increase the continental lager and cut back on the funny pills….! ;-)
T4
MWD
Tom English ???
Can somebody check that MWD is ok ?
In the bier garten. Can hardly see my screen due to sun glare so apologies
HH
Auldheid,
I agree, though I am really surprised it hasn’t been proposed before now. Regan and Doncaster MUST have seen this coming. Merging the divisions now – in time for the coming season – seems incredibly ambitious, and probably unfeasible.
MWD 15.27
Glad to see you posting again hope all is well.
Never one to tip your toe in to test the tempreture.
A.McGregor.Brave shout,keep the tin hat on but as a swift reminder
that they have popped their clogs while we are in good health then
I get your drift.HH.
Listening to SSB, I would say common sense is starting to take hold in this mess that one club arrogantly brought to Scottish Football….
They were indeed SCOTLAND’S SHAME …….. AND, IF ‘THE’ ARE ALLOWED INTO THE SPL, IT WILL RESULT IN THE DEMISE OF SCOTTISH FOOTBALL
St mirren fan on shortbread talking a lot of sense about supporter ownership.
It maks sense tae me, and it maks sense tae Mo.
Good Times!
Ki, is wanted .. By the Russians. Fur. Six Million. or More.
He is worth. . TEN.
And..
Victor. is being Courted by Suitors. Galore!
Ah Luv it. Luv It!
Wan suitor,in Particular. If TRUE..
Is . Chelsea!!…
Goody, Goody.. and that could Spell..
$$$$$$$$$$!!!
How high will They Go.. in thur Pursuit of Oor Kenyan?
Who Knows???.. the Sky’s the Limit..
Victor, is Only Twenty.. Years of Age.. and he is Worth.. Wan Million fur every wan o’ they Years. according, tae Ma Calculations.
Twenty Million?
Why Not.. ??
Hm Hm Hm. Luverley!
If Chelsea Want Him.. then . he is Soitenly. Available..
But…
at CELTIC’S PRICE!
and. Ah am Pretty sure that Mr. Lawwell ,and Ma Guid Sel.,.
are Pinkety, Pinkety, oan whit THAT price, Wull Be!
Yep.. Mr. Lawwell, his These Suitors. By the Short And Curlies!
Fur..they Must Meet HIS Price..or.they kin .. Tak a Walk.
He wull be in Complete Control of Any Transfer Negotiation, which wull tak place…concerning his Players.
So let’s Dream A Little. Eh??
Say. Ten Million fur Ki.. and Twenty Million Fur Victor..
and Soon. ye are talkin’… Nice Money!
and . Celitc could sure dae A loat. wi’
Thirty Million!
Right?
Damn Right!
Kojo
Still, Laughin’
setting free the bears
I thought I was nudging (so last year) the debate in that direction without a sledgehammer…………..
HH
US attitudes to Castro was undoubtedly wrong headed.
But in the USSR Castro allied himself with a vicious, undemocratic, expansionist kleptocracy – one which, as was abundantly clear in 1960 – was on the road to economic ruin.
Castro deserves criticism for this appalling decision, one which effectively destroyed his country and shamed his revolution.