Yesterday we learned that the Scottish Government hoped to authorise socially distanced outdoor events from 23 July. Reports today suggest the club “plan” to have 30,000 fans at games by August.
Before that happens, the virus must continue on its current trajectory, the social ‘distance’ must reduce from 2m and the Government needs to give the green light.
When we are back at football, it will feel more like an airport experience, with temperature checks, travel flow guidelines, sanitise stations, masks and the kind of distancing rules that will make the prohibition on horizontal movement look like a swearing ban.
I don’t think there is much sympathy from the politicians for football’s position – they have more important things to worry about, but what Celtic and the SRU in particular have assured, is that football can be as safe, if not safer, than most other outdoor activities, and safer than all social indoor ones. When the Government allows drinkers into pubs and beer gardens, they will find it difficult to revert to their usual antagonistic approach to football fans.
Still nothing from Celtic on any of this, which is right. Under-promise when you cannot control events. And no one is campaigning for a return, wait until we are safe and be fair.
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PCS 6.18pm
Never a fan of the EPL or Fa cup, it’s even worse with no fans ….
Was a bit worried about behind closed doors would be a leveller but think Broony & co will get us going again … Barcelona done me for a decent treble today, losing a goal in 88mins, am blaming the current situation … although a fool and his money are easily parted :-)
How many times must a man log in
Before you can call him a man
Celtic Mac
How many times must a man log in
Before you can call him a man
,…………………………….
Everyone on here is a Bhoy – so still counting
Interesting couple of blogs on Sentinel Celts on the ST renewal dilemma facing supporters. It prompted my thoughts based on the Res12 experience.
There is a scene from The (aptly named ) Green Mile that enters my head when I think of the current dilemma Celtic supporters face, a dilemma excellently captured by the two Mahe and BMCUW blogs.
The words are from John Coffey when he says to Paul Edgecome ” He killed them with their love, that’s how it is everyday, all over the world. ”
It is the first six words that stick with me, but it is best if seen in the full context in which they are uttered and you can do so from 7:38 in at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGHQXwJjJZY .
The problem is that when you kill off another using their love for you, you kill that love as a result. Emotional ties that bind are being if not already cut, in the process of severance. I would not be stretching the truth in saying I think it has done that for the guys most closely involved in Res12, who stood outside Celtic Park in early 2014 and said the last thing we wanted was to damage Celtic, but on reflection I think that was an ideal that existed only in our heads to differing extents..
The issue now though following BMCUW’s tack is either one of continued damage limitation or seeking atonement.
At One Ment. is for me a better expression of that word.
There are steps to At One Ment that Celtic can take if they are courageous enough to trust in their support, trust in their inherent goodness as people and respect their obvious fecking intelligence, where sharp suits are not the only manifestation or measure of its abundance.
Before CoVid19 taking Celtic’s handling of Res12 as an example has been scorned , but the landscape has now changed, which makes the dismissed no longer dismissible.
The way to At one ment for Celtic is.
1. Come clean on Res12 and the covering up of it and their failure to act on evidence showing LNS was a sham whilst pretending to want a solution to both..
2. Do it because it is the right thing to do for EVERYONE including The Board.
3. Admit there was wrongdoing but point out to where it started – not at CP, but at Ibrox from 1999 with Rangers use of EBTS and SDMs’ stated testimony for using them – to buy better players than Rangers could otherwise afford – to do what? Win bloody football matches!!!The LNS Commission remains an insult to the intelligence of true football supporters everywhere, not just club supporters, football supporters. The SFA too deserve censure for covering up once HMRC started asking them questions about Rangers contracts and ebts.
4. Explain the circumstances under which the 5 Way was accepted, we might not like it but we are intelligent enough to at least understand why, if we were in Celtic’s shoes we might have had to do so (unless of course Celtic drove it).
We are also wise enough to point out the moral wrong of accepting it and the moral consequences, which Celtic are now having to reap, not just because they either rolled over in 2012 or stayed passive, but have had to roll over ever since to the extent of lying to shareholders about their knowledge of the 5 Way Agreement. Any secret agreement that requires that to happen is not one a Celtic Board should ever consider accepting.
5. In telling the truth and admitting wrong the path to forgiveness, in full knowledge of all the circumstances, becomes open and from there atonement.
(Personally I’m a great believer in the benefits of forgiveness and how it has enriched my life. (but for a mainly academic view with a hint of the spiritual you might want to check https://internationalforgiveness.com/ ). Forgiveness frees us from the past and so changes the present and future.
The way not to Atone is to say nothing and then lose its benefits by being forced into it.
True “at one ment” and its benefits requires a metanoia* which can only come from the heart.
Metanoia: change in one’s way of life resulting from penitence or spiritual conversion.
“what he demanded of people was metanoia, repentance, a complete change of heart”
I wouldn’t make coming clean a condition of renewal but I’d want to make clear I do not like my love for Celtic being used to kill it.
Auldheid Some article ; And for the persistence of res 12 , Thank’s again for your effort’s.
Auldheid 7.07pm
If you don’t mind me saying I think the most vociferous are the punters who aren’t season ticket holders and do not actually attend Celtic games home or away, I totally understand people not being able to afford purchasing a season ticket without knowing when they will be able to use their season ticket … strange times … I do think the internet (whatever blog you prefer) do not represent the wider Celtic support whether it be Res12 or season ticket renewal … again just my view knowing the people in my circle of friends & family who go to the fitba
Auld Heid
I have never commented on anything you have previously written but your post @ 1907 is one of the most in-depth and thought provoking I have seen.
Ultimately I wonder if our current board have it within them to reach out for a “road to Damascus moment “
Hail Hail
brilliant read –
————————————–
CelticEarlyYears
@EarlyCeltic
·
4h
Brother Walfrid explains the workings of the Poor Children’s Dinner Tables, in his own words, which Celtic were set up to fund the maintenance of, in the parishes of St Mary’s, St Michael’s and Sacred Heart. The article was published in the Glasgow Observer in 1895.
CelticEarlyYears
@EarlyCeltic
·
4h
Brother Walfrid explains the workings of the Poor Children’s Dinner Tables, in his own words, which Celtic were set up to fund the maintenance of, in the parishes of St Mary’s, St Michael’s and Sacred Heart. The article was published in the Glasgow Observer in 1895.
Auldheid – wonderful post.
PHILBHOY-I remember you telling me to just keep saying what I think.You told me pillow stories 😉
You sir are a very nice person 🍀💚
Gftb
Tbh most supporters I know, know nothing of res12 or 5 way agreement. Well educated have internet access and completely oblivious to it 😰
Auldheid
I am not sure if i will manage to ecplain my viewpoint clearly here but I`ll give it a go.
There is a business entity called Celtic, plc. Financial well-being is essential for that business to remain solid.
Celtic, our team, is an almost spiritual entity. It is `the heart of a heartless society` for many of us.The more successful the team is, the more healthy is our spiritual well-being.
The business will often act in ways that are not compatible with the ethos we associate with our team. Their reason for so doing, is to ensure that the plc remains strong enough to also ensure that our team can remain successful. Somehow we have to separate the two entities . That would not , exactly,be cognitive dissonance . More a separation of the spiritual and the practical.
The team on the park,the crowd, the atmosphere, for me, is a manifestation of the spirit of Celtic and that is what I am a part of.The plc is the practical, unglamorous and unappealing engine necessary to give foundation to the dream.
Auldheid,
Yes,it is a very good post,but I have to agree with GFTB,not enough of the fans who go to the games are overly concerned.I,personally,have around 30 Celtic supporting friends and family.All ST holders,who are only vaguely interested.Wont stop them going to the games.Wont have them marching on Celtic Park.
The blogs do not truly represent the thoughts of the vast majority that attend the games.On a personal note,I have always been of the opinion it has been a disgraceful decision by the Board,but I cannot let it affect my love for the club.Boards come and go.This present one will pass,but the club goes on.
Craig Gordon,slaughtered because of his distribution
Boric,is 40ish and is way beyond his best
Way way beyond 😉
I haven’t purchased a ST for myself for several years and I stated on here they reason was my distrust of the PLC, I used to post I love Celtic FC not Celtic PLC , I still continue to purchase my
Daughters ST, she is 20 and we had a parent and child since she was 8 . So a long time since I was attending regular, I continue to support and follow Celtic and I am a shareholder ( minimum purchase ) I was hopeful rather than expectant
About res12 and the death of Sevco
I will return when our CEO departs and have always said that ..
I have around 31
Who all think the same
I know my opinion is not the commonCQN opinion and accept others opposite views
By the way … I hope my posts don’t read as dismissing them ReS12 Bhoys .. if it wasn’t for CQN I would probably know heehaw about Res12… and again in this day n age the majority of Scottish football fans (Celtic fans included) don’t care about the Huns cheating … 99% know they cheated so pretty sure our board are damned if they do and damned if they don’t … again I think when people look back in things in years to come the ReS12 bhoys have made it more difficult for any version of the Huns to get “away” with it in the future … they liquidated for me that is a success and HMRC were never going to give up … and that is factual … but if some want to blame the Celtic board so be it … they won’t change their mindset … am just glad we have Celtic the football team as our constant :-)
PPB 8.36pm
Likewise … I get the response “get off the internet and get to the fitba” :-)
The majority of Celtic fans (in my opinion) want a version of the Hun to beat … young and old alike
Turkeybhoy @8:39. We don’t always agree .But that’s outstanding
The majority of Celtic fans (in my opinion) want a version of the Hun to beat … young and old alike
—
i think that is fair comment
and the evidence is there from the last few years
Auldeid, get a feckin’ life.
I’m 6k plus on the waiting list and happy to buy two full price season tickets even though my boy is only 11.
I’ll be very surprised if we get filled.
THE BLOGGER FORMERLY KNOWN AS GM
Ask the non renewals on here and on other platforms to take their tickets from them and most will not take up the option because they will renew regardless .. no Celtic fan who can financially afford to do so would not renew and the board know this and know guys like you are waiting in the wings
Let’s all Do 9.12pm
When the boozers were open sine were all ticket … again young and old alike, one of my nephews who was a teenager during the Murray Cheating Nine … says he would be devastated if their was no Hun mob to beat .. maybe not on these pages but real life a team from Govan is an attraction … just ask Henrik, Moussa or Odsonne if they enjoyed playing the Huns … like it or not it’s actually a big selling point for us to attract players … some might not like reading that but the truth does hurt :-)
Gerry
Sevco games are not a selling point imo
Europe and moving on are our selling points
Agree with most on here most of my friends don’t know about res.12 or 5 way agreement as they say they are Celtic supporters.
When people call them Sevco thats up to the individual i can’t its “rangers” i cant dislike Sevco but i can”rangers” it sounds like a grocery store ” hey tim can you nip down to Sevco for milk and eggs” ok mrs Tim.
GFTB on 27TH JUNE 2020 7:36 PM
Auldheid 7.07pm
If you don’t mind me saying I think the most vociferous are the punters who aren’t season ticket holders and do not actually attend Celtic games home or away, I totally understand people not being able to afford purchasing a season ticket without knowing when they will be able to use their season ticket … strange times … I do think the internet (whatever blog you prefer) do not represent the wider Celtic support whether it be Res12 or season ticket renewal … again just my view knowing the people in my circle of friends & family who go to the fitba
==============================
If they don’t get angry at being cheated for 10 years and forget how angry they were when it happened before their eyes and are happy to sit through it again because the lack of action, indeed resistance to taking it, contributes to a return of the bad old days now that some of our financial security that enables a winning team to turn out, then they were never going to care anyway.
Res 12 is for those who don’t like being cheated when watching Celtic, especially when it involves our main rivals at our expense and the custodians doing SFA to stop it.
Wee question, and I might not see any answers until tomorrow. We talk a lot about the financial issues at the original huns dating back as far as 1999. But when wee Mo signed for them instead of us, was that not swung by a tax free signing on fee? So it goes all the way back to the late 80s?
Edit
contributes to a return of the bad old days now that some of our financial security that enables a winning team to turn out is under threat …
TimHorton
They hate the term Sevco and that’s why I use it, i enjoy humping them as much as others but the fear and the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach the morning of an ‘old firm ‘ game is no longer there because they are no longer Rangers
Glasgowbhoy 9.30pm
Wee Mo when returning from Nantes within a year would have had to fill in a P86 form … he was earning tax free from the French club … when Celtic had “agreed” to sign him his then agent Bill Murdo wanted Celtic to cover the tax issue .. Celtic refused and in stepped Dodgy Dave the first who seemingly “paid” the tax bill … pretty ironic :-)
BT good post.
Just watching Sharon van Etten singing black boys on mopeds, emotional listen
TURKEYBHOY on 27TH JUNE 2020 8:39 PM
Auldheid,
Yes,it is a very good post,but I have to agree with GFTB,not enough of the fans who go to the games are overly concerned.I,personally,have around 30 Celtic supporting friends and family.All ST holders,who are only vaguely interested.Wont stop them going to the games.Wont have them marching on Celtic Park.
The blogs do not truly represent the thoughts of the vast majority that attend the games.On a personal note,I have always been of the opinion it has been a disgraceful decision by the Board,but I cannot let it affect my love for the club.Boards come and go.This present one will pass,but the club goes on.
=======================
I never suggested at any point not renewing and never have. I well recognize the emotional ties but I would not let those who use those feelings to blindly accept what is personally unacceptable.
I would expect them to recognise those feelings and act to remove the cause.
BT 9.26pm
Need to disagree mate … even Blantir is far busier on “old firm” games than any European games … (in my opinion) we might not like it but it’s the truth
HOT SMOKED on 27TH JUNE 2020 8:37 PM
Auldheid
I am not sure if i will manage to ecplain my viewpoint clearly here but I`ll give it a go.
There is a business entity called Celtic, plc. Financial well-being is essential for that business to remain solid.
Celtic, our team, is an almost spiritual entity. It is `the heart of a heartless society` for many of us.The more successful the team is, the more healthy is our spiritual well-being.
The business will often act in ways that are not compatible with the ethos we associate with our team. Their reason for so doing, is to ensure that the plc remains strong enough to also ensure that our team can remain successful. Somehow we have to separate the two entities . That would not , exactly,be cognitive dissonance . More a separation of the spiritual and the practical.
The team on the park,the crowd, the atmosphere, for me, is a manifestation of the spirit of Celtic and that is what I am a part of.The plc is the practical, unglamorous and unappealing engine necessary to give foundation to the dream.
Best post I have read on here for ages,and the one I can associate my own thoughts with.
AULDHEID on 27TH JUNE 2020 7:07 PM
A very powerful and eloquent post. In the last few months, you and I have cordially disagreed on the merits of forgiveness.
I maintain now is not the time for any acts of atonement. Football clubs are struggling, and we are no different. We need unity and it’s heartening that only 8% of our ST holders have stated that they will not renew.
Do you not think our enemies would be heartened by any such self inflicted act. ? They will interpret any admissions or requests for forgiveness as a weakness: Our achilies heel if you like. And they would be right.
It would not stop there, they would smell blood and go for the jugular. Historical events, even by association are currently trending and acts of forgiveness would fall on deaf ears.
Appeasement or calls for forgiveness are especially dangerous in this current climate.
I reiterate, although I don’t disagree with your sentiments and i thank the four of you for your tenacity and persistence , now is not the time.
Many thanks, best regs and HH.
GFTB, cheers mate. Weird thing is and I know this isn’t for everyone, I can still enjoy the goal he scores at love street, I can’t allow him to spoil that for me. It’s a great goal, one of the best I’ve personally witnessed!