After many years of speculation and debate, former Rangers owner, Craig Whyte, and founding father of newco Rangers, Charles Green, have been detained by police and are due to appear in court connected to the “alleged fraudulent acquisition” of Rangers assets, which were sold after the club failed to prevent a liquidator being appointed.
Joint administrators for Rangers, Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, then employed by Duff and Phelps, have also been detained in connection with the case.
Let’s get the rules clear from the off:
Anyone charged with a crime is entitled to a fair trial. They should not be subject to public comment which is likely to prejudice their ability to receive a fair trial. Don’t let anything of this nature appear on CQN.
You can discuss the issue, and you can discuss consequences of similar-sounding hypothetical cases, but unless you are cited to as a juror, don’t try to convict anyone.
The events surrounding Rangers liquidation and the subsequent asset purchase took place over three years ago. That this case has now found such momentum suggests the police are following a strong lien of enquiry, and have overcome whatever inertia which can sometimes affect white-collar crime.
We don’t know what is alleged fraudulently took place. The role of the administrators to carry out their duties on behalf of creditors is clearly established. That said, plenty of lateral is afforded to administrators (although increasing payroll by trying to sign Daniel Cousin raised eyebrows).
Exactly how Sevco Scotland Ltd (now The Rangers Football Club Ltd) were able to buy Rangers assets (for £5.5m) when the company who successfully bid for the assets was Sevco 5088 Ltd, has remained an open question since Craig Whyte claimed a controlling interest in Sevco 5088 Ltd.
Whatever the nature of the police charges, there is one overarching fact which Scottish football should be alert to.
Any company, football club or otherwise, which relies on assets that were criminally acquired to go about its business cannot continue to operate with those assets.
In this instance, the stadium, training ground, intellectual property, balls, nets and goalposts were all acquired by the company now known as The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
The consequences of this one are so massive several well-informed people suspected it would never get this far. But the day has come.
Even if all charges are dropped or allegations found to be false, there will still be immediate and real consequences. How would you, for example, go about raising money for a company with this hanging over it? Newco needs money, and they need to convince investors that the club did not start by criminally acquiring its football stadium.
Good luck with that.
I see in some places a fallacy persists that the SFA found Craig Whyte fit and proper to be a director of a football club. They did no such thing. The responsibility for ensuring Whyte’s fitness in 2011 lay with the Rangers board of directors, including Dave King and Paul Murray. The SFA have no powers to intercede or prevent a club from appointing any director it chooses.
Earlier this year Dave King took the unusual step of asking for prior-clearance that his appointment would not be found contrary to SFA rules (presumably due to his criminal convictions), before being appointed a director, but this was at King’s discretion. There is no SFA Fit and Proper test, the SFA do not clear or otherwise sanction any club director prior to appointment, this is the job of the club itself. Dave King, Paul Murray but most of all, Sir David Murray, take a bow.
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MUSCAT_BHOY1264 on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 9:05 PM
Natknow, I know. Cognitive dissonance in abundance! Kevin Bridges is a great comedian, but that blogger could give him a run for his money at the Celtic player of the year awards. His argument is basically, yeah Charles Green was bad, but so is everyone who runs a football club, but we shouldn’t be bad, we should just accept that bad people run football clubs but try not to be bad ourselves!
——————————————-
Kev better watch out for these huns copying his act!
Basically what the tool is saying is “I’m a moron. But please like me.”
Unfortunately, once you write something down, people tend to remember it and bring it up a wee while later.
Clearly not a Physics major…
They are COMPLETELY deluded. An incurable disease.
ThankfullyCSC :)))
They are so naive, stupid and hapless that we should be pitying them rather than laughing at them…………….
Aye! That’ll be right!……..Hahahahahahehehehehehohohohohohohohwahwahwahwahwahoohoohoohoohoo
oooooops!…….pass me a pair of dry knickers please!
.
Just Read Paul67’s Article in Kevin Bridges Southern English Accent..
Very Funny..
Summa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3il9rf6lPE
jamesgang @ 8:50 am
“Sftb
Many on here don’t say ‘spend more’.
They (me among them on this occasion) say ‘spend better’ up front.
This time we’ve avoided by any more projects or failures up front by buying ….. nobody! (Cifti excepted for a variety of reasons)”
I have heard a lot of revisionism recently from people who claimed they never asked for “more” to be spent, but, unfortunately I have a memory and I know that many did. In phrases like “speculate to accumulate”, “pay the going rate”, “pay peanuts- get monkeys” etc; etc; you understood that people felt our “Moneyballs” operations in the £1.5m to £3m market was not to their satisfaction.
Some posters, very few admittedly, were even brave enough to say we needed to spend £5m or £6m on players (figures that stem from our being stuck in MON era nostalgia) and I have also seen it stated that it would take a £50m spend to turn this team around.
But, I accept that you and a select few others may not have wanted “more spend” but “better spend”. Well, who didn’t?
Nobody advocated buying duds. Nobody deliberately targeted duds. And all the duds we bought and declared that they were never proper footballers (Bangura, Pukki, Berget, Balde, Rasmussen, Miku etc;) have all gone on to be signed by other professional managers having been recommended by other professional scouts. Even the most ridiculed of these figures- Amido Balde- has gone on to play in France’s 2nd top division with a respected club, Metz. These players were not bizarre mistakes- if they were, they’d have disappeared down the tiers of football.
So Buy Better rather than Buy Bigger is both a fairly meaningless distinction and a forlorn pious aspiration.
Unless you can operationalise that aspiration- set terms and guidance to it- that reduces the tendency to buy wrong, then it is meaningless.
The challenge is always to set the operational terms. How much should we spend? How many players should we buy? What markets should we shop in? What age of player should we prioritise?
When those hard questions have been posed to those who say that “I just want better buys – and maybe a little more spend”, I ask for specifics and I do not get replies. If £2.5m is too little, how much is a little more? Do we really believe a £3m buy brings us into a qualitatively different tier of player? £4m?
I wish too that the bad buys had not been bought and that they were all of the quality of Forster, Wanyama and VVD (all of whom got slaughtered on CQN in their time BTW) but I know that the man who never made a mistake never made anything. Too many critics on here have boasted that they could do it better but they have never put themselves to the real life test of taking up football scout positions and proving it.
In short, and I know it is too late for that, I don’t believe it and until I see the detail I will continue to not believe it, that anyone here has the key to future success. If they did, I’m sure they would share it with PL. Peter, being the generous man he is, would surely let such a desirable scouting asset spend time warming his tootsies on the heated drive we have all paid for.
Why can’t these sevconian’s get a reality check and realise what is going on???
Because that wouldn’t be as funny, that’s why, and God loves us and wants us to be happy…
My view from afar is one of complete surprise that the “bedlam” outside the court after Charles’ arraignment today is accepted as if it were completely normal.
Despite the presence of a considerable body of Police, Mr Green was under considerable threat of severe bodily harm.
Did anyone get arrested? Cautioned?
Perhaps if the crowd had shown membership of the Green Brigade the police presence would have been beefed up, allowing the law to kettle the crowd.
Further appearances in court for the big handed Yorkshireman, or any of the accused, should be heavily policed to ensure the safety of the public.
Or maybe Police Scotland and the sweaty handed shakers are sending a message?
The Huns aren’t deluded, they know what they did and that they’re a charade.
They have lived a lie for decades full in the knowledge that cheating would get them jobs, position and money. It’s not a surprise they used their immoral code in sport.
The zombies are revolting then!
Well I think it’s safe to say that we always knew that!
Seems as though there are two parallel investigations and sets of charges – one on the CW take over and one on the GC purchase of assets deal.
The zombies were so desperate to deny that liquidation meant the end of the club that they bought in to the scam. The SFA and SPL and SFL – for whatever reason – went along with this scam.
What should have happened was that the newco should have been told that until the whole mess had been unravelled they would not be allowed to play football. By allowing this scam entity to join the professional game in Scotland the authorities have come close to destroying the whole fabric of a game which should be built upon sportin integrity and honesty.
One can only imagine the chagrin that the Gallant Pioneers would be feeling if they were alive today to see the thing that they created fall in to the hands of people like Minty( 2 tax avoidance scams and counting), White, Green, King et al!
Great fun isn’t it!
Thinking back to all those visits to the bigotdome in the 1990s and beyond – going along the M8 and the hordes waving their cash a la Harry Enfield’s Loadsamoney!
Watching an honest but poor set of players coming up short time after time as they spent money they didn’t have!
Well karma can be a bad woman at times – so I think I will just happily sit back and watch events unfold. Always with the state of mind that this is Scotland – where the power of the masons is still widespread – so expect the unexpected!
Who knows perhaps if CW gets obliterated Minty will find himself back in charge at the bigotdome with a debt free football club? Could it be a plan? Is that why Fat Sal has been hanging round the bigotdome so long – why he met the alleged whistle blower at the airport – to keep his big boss in the loop?
On our home front – I’m afraid I cannot share the optimism of some on here.
Another transfer window has passed and key weaknesses have yet to be addressed.
It seems Izzy is still the only genuine LB on the books.
We have sold a defender of known quality to be replaced by another unknown project.
We still don’t have one proper defensive midfielder on the books – let alone in the team
We have acquired another two lightweight midfielders.
We lack a front man capable of playing the role that RD’s system requires!
Being on the home ticket scheme – I’ll be out another £66 and at this stage it looks as if it might not be pretty. God knows what CL teams would do to us but the Turks and the others might turn us over even at CP!
Even in Scotland if you take SB out of the team – we look fragile – both physically and mentally!
All that said I wish we had a game this weekend because watching CFC is always infinitely better than watching any international football!
HH
Tell yae whit,the huns’ll no be so keen tae celebrate the Normandy landings noo!
Hohoho,Green Giant.
Setting Free the Bears
I think the challenge for Celtic is brand management. We were born as a club for all who were run largely for the benefit of the poor and oppressed. We should continue this as much as possible in all we do. This might seem like an abstract notion which has no relevance to your point, but it is. The Arsenal supporters trust made a good point today, they said to their club, if you don’t want to spend money on the squad that’s fine, but use that money to provide cheaper seats and for the good of the community.
That is what I think Celtic need to take more seriously. It needs to be reflected in our sponsorship, employment practices and also in our squad. Why not just say that each season, every team will have at least one youth player in every game. I’m talking about initiatives that bring the soul back to our club, that is something I think we are in danger of losing.
A good club is an idea, a great club is a dream, a vision that is turned into reality and that’s what Celtic should aim to be. That might sound like idealistic nonsense, but its not. It’s a sound business strategy that aims to increase the brand equity of Celtic so it can compete in a fierce competitive macro-environment with other clubs with far more resources.
GG – all good points, well made.
HH
More disturbances from the Ibrox mob. They really do deserve better :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gROO7xSTxfY
Hail Hail
ps….God I hate international weeks
Muscat Bhoy
I think every club should strive to keep some local identity and a social conscience (but, as you acknowledge, that is not particularly pertinent to the point I am addressing). I wish the problem was that the disenchantment/ disconnect was there because that was missing because that is easier remedied, if the will is there.
However, I feel there are more who are disenchanted by our failure to pay a £5m cheque to another rich football club than with our failure to pay a £5m cheque to charity
To time Tim 5.29: Great to read your post “young man” :) I also would never wear a replica hoops top although having many Celtic tops,but to be fair that is an age thing I support the Cellick because that was how I was taught by my Dad,the result disnae matter ,were you there, did you listen on the wireless. That was my Dad,s mantra. I am still the same but my fkids are a wee bit different.BTW I have still got a Bramalea skip I got from a member on a cruise on my 65th birthday and that wisnae yesterday :)
I’m still feeling disappointed that we didn’t get a striker in, but the number of flops we’ve had makes me think that we’re better to keep our money than to throw it away.
Strikers who are better than Griff are just not out there for our kind of money. In fact flops are abundant for much more money than we can afford.
Still, I live in hope of uncovering a gem. Who knows, we might even grow our own!
The only thing more difficult than discovering a gem of a striker, is discovering a gem of a scout who is good at discovering strikers!
Evening Bhoys and Ghirls
I am still trying to reconcile the promises of
1) Re-investing all monies earned back into the team
2) Coming out of each transfer window stronger
and the recent comments of the highest spend in 14 years. Is this correct?
Yesterday/Today the “Green and Whyte” Gods shined and created the necessary diversion
I just hope our failure to follow 1) and 2) does not cause us problems.
Our forward line really worries me for strength in depth and ability, but on the upside, the lack of spend ensures that there will be a large profit in the accounts to 2016, so all cannot be bad in the landed of Celtic PLC
HH
CRC.
I peeped in to see if it was safe to read any posts here after the premature evaluators last night telling us that we are a weakened team before they have even seen the new players play and given them a chance to form an understanding with each other. Ready to tear Peter Lawwell apart if Simunovic did not sign (but no apology when he did). Only time will tell if we have bought well or not.
Dobrodosli Jozo…..Welcome Ryan.
So….Delighted to read Tontime Tim’s post….Celtic fans getting behind the club…shenanigans in a Glasgow court…,,analysis by Paul and BRTH (and others). CQN much nearer its best.
Tonight is Relax night….lights down , listening to a gramophone record and enjoying CQN again.
Captain Beefheart, sounds like he is experiencing some angst tonight during this joyful evening. He wants to question OUR board…hmm. Must be a febrile atmosphere at the Lodge, some SFA members will be sleeping soundly tonight others will not.
Setting Free the Bears
That is true, but what I’m saying is that the players we have bought are tactical i.e meant to be part of a greater strategy. If we don’t change the strategy, we’ll continue to buy guff who don’t care about playing for Celtic. Rasmussen just scored against Southampton to put them into the Europa league, he’s almost got a goal every two games in the Danish league. Is he really any worse than an SPL striker? If you think about it, the players we’ve bought haven’t been given a chance. They’ve been bought, something has happened, then they’ve just not played again. That’s tactical, if the strategy and vision doesn’t change, these buys will just keep happening. Usually like this, 1. Player arrives on relatively big money 2. Plays a few games 3. Stops getting selected. 4. Leaves on loan and does all right 5. Goes to another club for less money and does o.k
Phil’s up …
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/live-proceedings-and-dead-money/
The backshift has turned into night shift, for the tarts at Level 5….;)
“gramophone record” haven’t heard that for a while. Memories are made of this. Well done!
HH
Gerry
CRC, I have started getting images ready for tomorrow night, emailed yourself and Bhundoran Bhoy. 9pm for the launch ok with you?
I will have a web page, Google, with the images to put up.
How does that sound?
CROPPYBHOY on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 9:38 PM
The zombies are revolting then!
Not bad chaps really.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/green-whyte-and-gaol-d/comment-page-5/#comments
Celtic roller, fine post. Laughing at another club is akin to Fr Dougal laughing at Baldrick’s lack of intellect.
Evening Bertie. Apart from Celtic related angst, I am fine. Looking forward to a fine night out on Friday – Poland v Germany at the,er, lodge. Thanks for your concern.
Just seen pictures of a 3 year old boy , washed up on a beach in Bodrum, Turkey.Lost for words.A bhoy on here, I think , posted it earlier.Shocking world we are in now.
I put up gooood news at 10am
More gooood news now
I decided to donate another £132 to Celtic, and got my own 2 seats :-) yippee
Now Celtic related
If found guilty of criminal and fraudulent activity, surely the FTSFA :-) will immediately suspend the team playing the Scottish leagues as The R.
I would like Celtic to apply for the position in the league, which should become available, and enter our Youth Team, get them some valuable playing experience and reduce the loans, hopefully make them better prepared for breaking into the first team ?
Hail Hail
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 9:48 PM
Muscat Bhoy
I think every club should strive to keep some local identity and a social conscience (but, as you acknowledge, that is not particularly pertinent to the point I am addressing). I wish the problem was that the disenchantment/ disconnect was there because that was missing because that is easier remedied, if the will is there.
However, I feel there are more who are disenchanted by our failure to pay a £5m cheque to another rich football club than with our failure to pay a £5m cheque to charity
——————————————
First-world problem. It highlights one of the key problems with football clubs that are now (necessarily) run as modern businesses. We were fans. What’s our role now? Shareholders? Fans? Customers? In fact, modern football businesses like us to be all of these, depending on the context. But there’s a clear tension between all of these categorisations. Social conscience to a PLC is simply a useful marketing tool. Before you can fix a problem, you have to accept and face the problem. We largely consider ourselves fans of a club. The club/PLC has a different view – depending on their need. The ole Johari window might be instructive…
Muscat Bhoy
Some of the foreigners we buy do “get” playing for Celtic- Larsson. Izzy etc;
Some of the Scots boys and bhoys we bought did not think enough of it to hold on to it (Tony Watt, Derek Riordan, Kenny Miller, & Craig Beattie)
crc
“I am still trying to reconcile the promises of
1) Re-investing all monies earned back into the team
2) Coming out of each transfer window stronger”
The problem you have in reconciling these is that you have created two promises of your own making and attributed them to Peter Lawwell.
What I heard PL say was
1) All money brought in would be re-invested- {he never ever said everything would be spent on the team since we have other areas we have to spend on (not excluding CEO bonuses) }
2) We would aim to come out of each window stronger- an aspiration not a promise
Doc
Sounds a plan. Wwe Shay and his family will be proud of the continued support on here from so many.
Glad to see Bundoran Bhoy back with a vengeance. :-)
HH
CRC
CowieBhoy, will you be able to find your own seats on a European night?
Doc, thank you. Forgit that bit :-)
HH
CRC
Doc on 2nd September 2015 10:09 pm
Sounds good mate
Celticrollercoaster supporting Shay,our bhoy wonder along the way on 2nd September 2015 10:16 pm – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/green-whyte-and-gaol-d/comment-page-5/#comments
Cant keep me away hahaha
LEFTCLICKTIC on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 7:07 PM
Lennybhoy
i will just claim to be a St Mirren fan like chick hun if called.
========
i will insist that i know nothing because i am am member of SMSM
setting free the bears for Res. 12 & Oscar Knox on 2nd September 2015 10:15 pm – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/green-whyte-and-gaol-d/comment-page-5/#comment-2670650
Think that Lubo got it. So did Bobo (met him in Seville).
Woops…. that should have been the Nou Camp