Congratulations to all at Celtic on securing our fourth consecutive trophy. Those of us who lived through the 90s (and those who also lived through the 50s) know how precious these times are.
Collecting that trophy yesterday is not the act of a vastly better resourced club picking up what is their divine right. It is the consequence of over a century of struggle, denial and sacrifice. The current success of Celtic is as remarkable as it looked to be unlikely for much of its existence.
The reflective glory that shines on all of us is the gift of downtrodden ancestors who wanted to escape hardship. When the trophies arrive, celebrate a deliverance.
Throughout the first half yesterday Celtic were well below their normal incisiveness. You and I have seen so many League Cups slip away over the years against weaker opponents. At halftime I thought, “All it will take is a half-chance for Motherwell and it’s the same old story.” Instead, James Forrest found the breakthrough and Craig Gordon (and the post) were up to the job when called upon.
Motherwell manager Steve Robinson has done very well but he set himself up for a fall after beating Newco in the semi-final. Pedro Caixinha was correct predicted Motherwell would not finished the final with 11 men on the field.
The get-into-their-face/leg/body approach was Motherwell’s best strategy for taking on Celtic (and Newco), but there’s no point crying about the consequences afterwards, when you lose.
There has been more heat than light shed on the penalty incident, a consequence of seasonal pantomime analysis. Ask any referee the question he is trained to ask himself in this scenario:
What is Kirpe’s arm doing across Scott Sinclair?
His arm is there to inhibit his opponent. No one will be able to give you an alternative scenario.
The incident would have been a foul and a yellow card anywhere else on the field. That is the statutory punishment for putting an arm round opponent in possession, unless it is a goal-scoring opportunity, in which case the card should be red.
It is unacceptable for a player to fall to the ground when he was not fouled, but not only is it acceptable to fall when you have been fouled, it is expected, unless you want the referee to play advantage.
I do feel sorry for Kipre, who by that stage of the game must have assumed his could foul and hack with impunity, but as well as pumping him up to play this brand of robust football, his manager should educate him on the consequences of putting an arm around and in front of an opponent inside the box.
There is a lesson here for Celtic too. When we lose a cup (or a game), it is likely to be when we concede a penalty and a red card.
Chris Sutton and Neil Lennon: love your work, but your performances on TV yesterday is why good analysts learn the guidelines given to referees. Stick to baiting Newco fans and finishing second in the league respectively.
Moussa, love your work too, but I don’t like penalties that go right down the middle of the goal. Note that every keeper in the land watched yesterday’s game and many will gamble on your repeating the exercise next time you face them from the spot. This is a tactic you must use sparingly.
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Is the fir park hammer thrower suspended for Wednesday’s game does anyone know?
The holy wullies in the mssm would do well to remember that their mantra of there was contact to justify many a dubious decision was a contributor to the Sinclair penalty call.
Scott said i felt contact so i went down.
The real question should be why Kipre was still on the field?
The sour grapes will give them plenty to dine on for weeks.
Get your money on Motherwell getting a Pen in at least one of our next 2 games, its a cert.
FOR A PEOPLE AND A CAUSE on 27th November 2017 1:14 pm
Suspended for next Betfred Cup game. Would only be suspended for Wednesday if he was sent off for violent conduct.
ERNIE LYNCH on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:14 PM
Methinks it is your attitude that has been affected by the commentators. They got many calls wrong.
As Paul 67 says…….. Chris Sutton and Neil Lennon: love your work, but your performances on TV yesterday is why good analysts learn the guidelines given to referees.
FAN-A-TIC on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:15 PM
‘Scott said i felt contact so i went down.’
###
If he made a conscious decision to go down then the contact didn’t cause him to go down.
And I don’t think that making contact with an opponent is, of itself, illegal.
ERNIE LYNCH on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:25 PM
It does not matter what you think ~ it is illegal. Read the rules!
NEIL LENNON & MCCARTNEY on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:23 PM
‘good analysts learn the guidelines given to referees’
##
What irked them was that Scott Sinclair dived ie he made a conscious decision to go to ground in order to gain an advantage.
I can understand their annoyance.
NEIL LENNON & MCCARTNEY on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:27 PM
I think the laws of the game refer to holding an opponent. If that’s incorrect then you can no doubt quote chapter and verse.
It’s debatable whether that happened.
ERNIE LYNCH on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:25 PM
FAN-A-TIC on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:15 PM
‘Scott said i felt contact so i went down.’
###
If he made a conscious decision to go down then the contact didn’t cause him to go down.
And I don’t think that making contact with an opponent is, of itself, illegal.
———————————————————————————-
“And I don’t think that making contact with an opponent is, of itself, illegal.”
It is illegal if it impedes the opponent – which it did. Any other part of the park it would have been a foul. It was in the box therefore a pen.
“If he made a conscious decision to go down then the contact didn’t cause him to go down.”
Whether he made a conscious decision or not is not something the referee will ever know. It’s irrelevant – “conscious decision” is not anywhere in the rules.
ERNIE LYNCH on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:31 PM
Deliberate holding, pulling or pushing all incur a red.
Nice chatting
HH
https://twitter.com/Slimshady1961/status/934847718819815429
Arm around Sincy, inviting pen award. Not poor decision, poor decision-making by Grace Jones. Hun lurkers STFU.
ERNIELYNCH. 1243
The laws of the game say,aw just read two posts previous.
Penalty,end of story.
Paul67
Superb piece, your best for some time.
When is a penalty not a penalty? When its awarded to Celtic.
Famine and Oppression CSC
BARNEY65
In that case,I wish you many more “birthdays”
SANDMAN on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 1:38 PM
The image clearly show there was some contact between Kipre and Sinclair but you only get a real sense of the incident by watching it at full speed and even then it depends the camera angle. The best camera angle is the one from behind the goals which clearly proves Kipre had a sly tug at Sinclair as he flew past him.
It was one of those that the defender hopes the ref. is blind-sided as he was when he got away with assault on Dembele. He gambled and lost then got sent off. No-one to blame but himself. His manager should now do the decent things and come out and admit he was wrong about there being “no contact”.
m6bhoy on 27th November 2017 1:53 pm
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Yup.
Paul, tremendous article! In a few sentences you summed up admirably who we are, where we’ve come from, how we have been outcastes and how we should rejoice in what the Celtic community has achieved in a century or more..
Well done everyone at Celtic for one more trophy. Great to win the League Cup again, not that I particularly have any great love of this competition. But as one who came through years of League Cup flops, it is good to win again.
‘Well done’ cannot be attributed to others involved in yesterday’s final. Our wonderful Police Force was nowhere to sort out the traffic chaos. Our bus had a ticket for the car park below the north stand area and was refused entry. The original space in this parking lot has been cut in half by the council. Oh, and apparently it was Celtic’s fault the car parking area was full to overflow. The club had issued too many parking passes.
A super officious cop was reluctant to help in anyway except to be abusive to the club president. To make matters worse, only one attendant was on duty to park the coaches. It was a nightmare, especially for the less abled in our club. Our coach finally landed up near the entrance to the south stand section and as members had left the coach at the entrance to the bus park, various text messages and phone calls were required to get all back to the coach.
Added to this we have a National Stadium that is a disaster. How can an authority build a stadium without proper toilet facilities? Saw no lifts for people with disability. Do not purchase anything at that place, so others might have some take on the provisions of drinks, etc. Lastly, do not get me started on the indicator boards round the stadium. Has anyone really understood them properly?
Were there any arrests at the Motherwell end for the flares that were let off? I was able to see from where I stood the exact location of those who were lighting the flares but it appears that the police and stewards standing in front of them did not, or did not want to see what was happening. Nor did the national press it seems.
Even after that rant, it is still wonderful to be celebrating 65 in a row. Well done Celtic.
Afternoon all.
Thought I should get in before Wee BGFC does – if anyone knows of 2 spares for Wednesday night at Fir Park I’d be delighted to hear from you. jobobaldie@yahoo.co.uk
The sending off was karma for a dreadful assault that went totally unpunished.
Who cares what pundits say or do not say. I cannot understand those who hang on their every word. The interpretation of football laws has changed sooooooo much since ex players played.
HH. The journey continues.
Watching the game with my 6 and 9 year olds, 9 year old days as the teams are in the tunnel: “not Craig Thomson, why does he get the chance to mess things up in all our big games.”
It’s a difficult watch when one of their favourites goes down that easily, I think he conned a poor weak referee.
‘It is unacceptable for a player to fall to the ground when he was not fouled, but not only is it acceptable to fall when you have been fouled, it is expected, unless you want the referee to play advantage.’
####
If a player makes a conscious decision and effort to fall to the ground, for any reason other than to avoid injury, then they are diving.
ERNIE LYNCH
I offered no opinion on the rights or wrongs of him going down.
I was saying how ironic that a climate created by the mssm now has them angry.
Personally i think there was not enough contact for him to go down so was his choice.
Also Thomson was behind players and could not tell how much force Kipre pulled Scott back with so probably seemed a more blatant penalty than was.
Thomson is no friend of Celtic and has given many poor decisions against us.
The Maloney booking when it was a clear penalty against the huns was typical of him.
CELTIC40ME on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 2:01 PM
SS ‘conned’ no one. There was a tug on his arm, it put him off balance. C Thomson applied the rules.
BARNEY65 on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 2:08 PM
He made a conscious decision to go to ground. He said so himself. The contact from the defender didn’t cause him to fall. It’s a dive.
EL if there was no contact he wouldnt have gone down, there was a deliberate attempt by the defender to impede his run, illegally, btw, its against the rules end of.
Connaire
Cops arrest Motherwell fans – no chance.
I’d a right laugh at two of them yesterday pre match.
Was up at Cathcart rd near Mount Florida station when Motherwell’s young team alighted from the train, raucous and singing some vile songs.
The two cops took one look at them and scuttled 50 yards away, presumably to avoid the casuals.
You’ve got to wonder if Police Scotland are issuing some safety first dictats.
These things even themselves out over the course of the season.
Dont they?Its what I have always read.
C12- a lady and 2 small kids left their seats beside me on the HT whistle, when they returned with pies etc,55 minutes on the clock.We were stuck in the bus park for an hour after the game, surely in this day and age crowds of people should be dispersed as quickly as possible, the Hampden set up is a total shambles.
BARNEY65 on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 2:15 PM
EL if there was no contact he wouldnt have gone down
###
The contact didn’t cause him to go down.
He went down because he made a deliberate decision to do so.
That’s diving.
If that’s the way football is going, then it’s going in the wrong direction.
A couple of points:
1 – at precisely 53 minutes and 2 seconds, McHugh from Motherwell was booked and a foul given for a wee tug at Stuart Armstrongs arm. Armstrong didn’t go down.
2 – No Motherwell player complained about the decision.
3 – None of the commentators or pundits on BT Sport said it was a wrong decision.
4 – “Diving” or “simulation” is an offence of going to ground when no contact has been made; going down when contact is made is not an offence. The rule books don’t stipulate how forceful the contact has to be.
It was a penalty, no argument. It was a deliberate foul so double jeopardy doesn’t apply – red card.
It’s the type of incident you are incensed at if the penalty isn’t given for you, but equally incensed if it is given against you; that’s the nature of football fans. My Motherwell supporting friend is feeling today because of it; I can understand that. they don’t get many days out at Hampden so he was disappointed it went that way.
Would we have won 11 v11 at 1-0 up? I’d say so. We created plenty of opportunities but also took our foot off the gas a bit. What we now have to do is take 6 points from them between now and 5 o’clock on Saturday to emphasise that point.
KTF
From the pub Hampdump looked superb. The Celtic support sounded superb.
The celebrations looked superb.
However the realty of actually attending Hampdump is a totally different experience.
Absolutely hated it when we paid handsomely for the privilege of using it for a year.
The huns are welcome to it when Grayskull becomes a Tesco.
HH.
HH.
!BADABING!
I took my nephew to the 2006 LC Final. He went for something to eat at halftime. Honestly thought he was lost.
His Mum would have killed me!
So the lying lisburn lout has said he would rather lose by 7 (wee hint at our score on Wednesday there) than by a disputed penalty. They didnae lose by the penalty they lost tae wee Jamsies wonder goal. Using an ice hockey analogy his was the winner and the penalty the insurance marker. No different from Henrik’s goal in the stop the corrupt ten game when he scored the winner, Harrald scored the insurance marker.
This loudmouth is covering up for his teams inept display yesterday when a Celtic side strolled through the 2nd half and setting us up for a kicking match on Wednesday. God forbid he ever gets the sevco job, we would be back tae the iron curtain days and fouling with impunity.
Now farmer moult is at it saying they should have had a penalty, what about yer having a go at broonie ya cheatin breest.
VFR800 IS NOW A MONSTER 821 on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 2:38 PM
‘It was a penalty, no argument.’
###
It’s only a penalty if the contact actually impeded the player, as opposed to the player making it look like the contact impeded him.
I suppose if the player can make it look like he’s been impeded then that will be OK for some too.
I reckon Neil Lennon has called it right.
One other thing on yesterday’s game, where does the Motherwell played well, had a game plan, were still in it to the penalty blah blah blah come from? Celtic dominated from first minute to last, without playing that well in the first half, improving greatly in the second, they were as dominant as we were in last year’s final against Aberdeen and but for poor shooting (how many did we blast over the bar or straight at the keeper) the scoreline would have been a lot closer to Robinson’s “I’d rather it was 7” than 2.
Motherwell are a poor team, physical and direct, they are able to intimidate and dominate mentally weak teams like Sevco or Aberdeen.
BARNEY65 on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 2:08 PM
CELTIC40ME on 27TH NOVEMBER 2017 2:01 PM
SS ‘conned’ no one. There was a tug on his arm, it put him off balance. C Thomson applied the rules.
I don’t think he impeded him enough to warrant a free kick, SS made sure it looked like there was. He didn’t dive which implies there was no contact but he exaggerated the effect of the contact
I actually think it was a borderline decision and the decision was so important that Thomson should have shown more caution. I’d be saying exactly the same if it was up the other end. With a bit of swearing thrown in