Herald forced to reconsider hasty article


I see The Herald were forced to reconsider Martin William’s hasty article, posted first online last night but now amended, where they repeat an erroneous claim that in 2001 Celtic claimed the word ‘hun’ is sectarian.  The current version of the article makes no such reference.

Much of what remains of the article is a random collection of quotes, appeals and one assertion by Williams that “Celtic warned fans they can no longer call Rangers fans ‘h***’ 14 years ago”, which appears to be based on a quote by then club employee John Cole’s etiquette requirement for a forum he administered.

This is a classic manipulative argument technique (and by classic I mean the ancient Greeks first identified it).  Take a statement by someone, for example:

The word f*** is not allowed on CQN, because the administrator acknowledged that it “can cause offence”.

Ignore the fact that the same administrator would never dream of chastising someone for using the word away from the blog, as the word is not inherently offensive as it does not, for example, offend at a comedy show.

State that some people believe the word to be inherently offensive in itself, or worse.

Build momentum for your argument by reminding readers that CQN’ers have been warned they can no longer use it, without issuing any caveats to the context.

Then allow your tenuous references to dovetail into an argument.

It’s an absurd and driven technique for the hard of thinking.  It is also patently transparent.

Celtic picked this matter up at the time of first publication and are considering their position in relation to various items published yesterday.

As a friend said last night, “What a sad little country”.

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  1. Tony



    I genuinely don’t want to get into a disagreement on here with you. It’s boring for everyone else and it drags the blog down.



    Couple of wee things.



    You didn’t prove me wrong, it was JPT who, in response to an email, confirmed that you were at the meeting.



    I questioned whether you were there because you’d claimed for days leading up to the meeting that you’d be going but your name didn’t appear on the seating plan.



    I thought it was reasonable to doubt your attendance under these circumstances.



    Granted I could have done so in a more appropriate manner.



    Your brother was at the table and I assume, though don’t know, that he was there as a representative for a supporters group. Is that incorrect?

  2. P67



    As a friend said last night, “What a sad little country”.






    Scotland is a great country. There may be sad little people in it but Scotland itself is a great place to be.


    Talk about putting down their own product when discussing Regan and Doncaster and then make the same error of judgement in one of your own articles when discussing the nation we play in. Can you explain that one?



    As Fletcher said in Porridge ‘Don’t let the b@stards grind you down’




  3. Caught the end of a discussion on the definition of the term ‘ Hun’ on radio shortbread an hour or so ago. I believe it was G. Spiers along with another seemingly not so well informed pundit. Basically Spiers said he didn’t think the term was sectarian and cited examples of non Catholic supporters of other clubs referring to Rangers supporters as ‘Huns’.

  4. tonydonnelly67



    11:34 on 25 March, 2015




    I didn’t bring your name up, I was just answering him, and yes it was after you called me a snake, you found out I was telling truth, and yes you are correct as I had told you that I was with him,my brother, and that he was representing a group yes, what that had to do with my conversation with him on here I don’t know, as I said I was just answering him,.

  5. any1 who uses twitter noticd even when 140 charcter limit outside twitter does not apply they type like it does? Inc no caps.



    Thot not.

  6. coolmore mafia on

    Sad Little Country? More accurately; what a sad ‘journalist’. Indulging in classic hun whataboutery.



    This sort of article is simply the thin edge of the unionist / loyalist wedge.



    Why not show some bollocks and vote out the Labour/Conservative alliance, put an end to unionist governance, and stop hand wringing?

  7. Paul,



    Should we not see this as an opportunity? Firstly, to reinforce the death of oldco and also to expose their own bigoted sectarian ways. By We, I mean the club. Seems like a great opportunity to drive the bus through.

  8. Tony



    I know you were only replying to another poster and that’s why my moniker came up.



    My point is if your brother, apologies I’ve forgotten his name, is a rep of a supporters group and you believe that it’s supporters groups who should address the RST statement, then why don’t you ask him to do it?



    It’s a genuine question.



    My own opinion differs because I don’t think PL or any official Celtic supporters body should say a word.



    I’d let Graham wallow in his own pish.

  9. It could be a sad country IF you let them get you down,.


    Keep them at arms length, and don’t believe a word they say or print, and do your own thing with a smile on your face, works all the time.

  10. coolmore mafia,



    Imo, your use of the unionist/loyalist badge is utterly illinformed. I will not vote for the SNP as they are fundamentally a right wing party, who are inherently racist and who are trying to pander to socialist minded Scots simply to garner votes. Scots, imo, won’t vote for the likes of Sheridan and the wilder shores of socialism.



    If there were an Independent Labour Party, I would happily vote for it.

  11. Paul67



    “Celtic picked this matter up at the time of first publication and are considering their position in relation to various items published yesterday.”






    Do you expect Celtic to act on either the Herald’s article or Graham’s drivel?

  12. coolmore mafia on

    If we start responding to RST ‘statements’ (even if they take off the Klan hoods and start writing in English) we might as well give up. Before we know it we will be responding to Bill McMurdo and Michael Stone’s insane ramblings.



    Huns are huns are huns. We are immune to their hun bile, hun whataboutery, hun racism, hun sectarianism, and extreme hun right wing politics.



    Give them enough rope to hang themselves – they are huns after all, and their hunnishness will eventually be their hundoing.

  13. I think the word Hun is derogatory but it’s not sectarian. I have a couple of mates who support Rangers but I would never describe them as Huns. To me, Huns is a word for the bigoted Neanderthals in their support, and the name for their deid club. The campaign to have it described as sectarian is fascinating tho, as it shows the limited intellect of those putting forward the argument. I understand they find it offensive but that’s football rivalry for you. But when I asked them if they’d prefer to be called Zombies instead not one of them replied. :)

  14. hamiltontim


    Oh he does, and some times he crosses the line, he fights the good fight and has done for many many years, but alas he is in North America and not on these shores, and I can assure you if he was he would, if no one wants to pick up the mantle? Fine, we stay in the comfort zone, PS and I never under estimate the North American Supporters, if you ever needed them, they would be there in a heartbeat for you, a more dedicated fan you will never get bless um.

  15. thezombieslayer on

    This is not a sad little country its a great little country but sadly has its share of sad little huns living in the past . I love this country and the decent people that live in it dont class them the same as the petty bigots which are a dying breed


    Hail Hail !

  16. Tony



    Thanks for the reply.



    Not for a second am I questioning the commitment of the NA Celtic community or indeed any Celtic community around the world.



    My point was that as a rep could he not do something to question the RST though I do understand distance is a problem.



    Who knows maybe a rep from another group will take up your point.



    Me? I’d leave the Graham’s of this world to dwell in perpetual misery.

  17. Parkheadcumsalford


    11:56 on


    25 March, 2015



    They are pandering to socialist minding Scots by actually having more socialist minded policies than Labour. It’s worth remembering that many of the elders of the SNP today were part of the 79 Group, which was a left-wing movement within the party at the time seeking to push it in a more socialist direction.



    I have a theory that I’ve never tested. I reckon of you took statements made by Jim Murphy and Ruth Davidson on the same topic and anonymised them people would think his were from the right wing and hers from the left. That’s one of the reasons Labour are in such a state up here.

  18. coolmore mafia


    11:46 on


    25 March, 2015


    Sad Little Country? More accurately; what a sad ‘journalist’. Indulging in classic hun whataboutery.



    This sort of article is simply the thin edge of the unionist / loyalist wedge.



    Why not show some bollocks and vote out the Labour/Conservative alliance, put an end to unionist governance, and stop hand wringing?




    Show some bollox?????


    You’re talking it mate.


    I’d rather eat my right arm off than put a cross in a Nationalist square.



    That’s my politics for the day on here. I only ever reply to Nationalist crap, why can’t you go on a seperatist site wi yer mate(s)?

  19. I had to self edit there.



    ‘individuals’ was gonna be a little closer to ‘country’ :)

  20. hamiltontim


    He is actually up to his arse with the NACSC convention in Vegas on June, for over 3000 Tims from all over the world, and the hotel we are all booked into is being imploded next month, so he really has a lot on his mind right now, but I will ask him.

  21. coolmore mafia on

    Parkheadcumsalford – Firstly over 20% voted for the Scottish Socialist Party in local elections, along with the 30odd% who voted for Labour in the mistaken belief they were voting for a socialist party (guffaw). Then there is the large block of SNP voters who are socialists, and greens.


    There is an appetite in the majority of the population for a socialist Scotland. Surely this is irrefutable to anyone reasonable. Whether even an independent Scotland would get a left wing gov is another thing.



    The SNP is not fundamentally right wing. Are you just having a laugh here?



    It’s just my belief, but I think that it will take a radical change away from unionist westminster politics to slowly ‘cure’ Scotland of it’s latent sectarianism, and it will take decades.

  22. The Blogger Formerly Known As GM on

    Aye, they’re all falling over themselves to get the first servings of succulent lamb.



    To think 45% of the country thought this wee backwater was mature enough to go it alone. Mind boggling.

  23. Richie #TeamOscarForever on

    Put me in the “Happy Clapper” camp on this one.



    Warts and all, Scotland is not a “sad little country”, but it does have more than it’s fair share of huns!!

  24. Personally I am glad to be a hun…….dred plus miles away from that pathetic wee country.



    Actually, I miss a great deal about my old home land.


    However, that does not include the media, the SFA and in fact, just about every person who has even the slightest association with Sevco.

  25. It’s a sad little country indeed when the editor of a national newspaper can sanction the publication of tragic Hun William’s irresponsible propaganda.



    The RST (Roasters Supporters’ Trust?) statement in full, reads:



    ‘Look at me, look at me, I’m Chris Graham, I’m no longer relevant even among my own, give me attention! Look at me!’




    Peter Lawwell already issued his response:




  26. The RST release statements as often as Only Fools and Horses is repeated on tv. All of them are complete drivel and this doesn’t need pointed out. It would end up being never ending whatabootery and would give them credibility by the fact that we have recognised, acknowledged and engaged.

  27. Thousands of people turn up every weekend to support our team and celebrate our Celtic cause.



    It cannae be that bad a country.

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