Queen’s Park, Rangers (twice) and Aberdeen have all won the Scottish Cup three consecutive seasons, a feat Celtic emulated in last year’s final, coming from behind to beat Hearts 2-1.
Queen’s Park lifted the trophy 10 times in total but five of those wins came in seven seasons, between 1879-80 and 1885-86. Defeat to eventual winners Dumbarton in the 1883 quarter final was their only reversal in the competition in five years.
Rangers completed their first hat trick in the Cup between seasons 1933-34 and 1935-36. That run came to an end when Celtic won the Cup in 1937 in the final against Aberdeen, famous for being the highest attended game in European club football ever, 147,365 souls.
Again Rangers won the Cup three times, between seasons 1961-62 and 1963-64, and again Celtic picked up the trophy to end the run in 1965, in what is probably a more famous final against Dunfermline. THAT header from Billy McNeill and two from Bertie Auld won the Cup for Celtic after seven years without a trophy and gave an indication into what was in store for the Jock Stein era that started two months earlier.
During the early 80s Aberdeen came to Glasgow and regularly bossed the occasion. They won three successive Scottish Cups, two against Rangers in 1983 and 1984, and one against 10-man Celtic (Gordon, cough) in 1984, before another famous Scottish Cup Final and another Celtic win.
This time, the 100th final. Dundee United took the lead, before that “piece of history” from Davie Provan and Frank McGarvey’s flying header. Thousands of us got in for free as police opened the gates in what, incredibly, was a non-ticket game, a practice that ended in disaster four years later at Hillsborough.
Celtic are the first team to win three and then reach a fourth Scottish Cup Final, chasing their 40th success in the tournament. Opponents, Hearts, hope to win their eighth Scottish Cup. History calls for both teams, but the rule is clear, since the 19th century, Celtic win the Scottish Cup after any team wins for three successive seasons. Any portent in a storm.
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angelgabriel @ 2:09 pm
There’s many a slip between analysis (backroom staff) , implementation (training ground coaches) and execution (on-field implementation by players).
Without inisde knowledge of these processes it is usually left to guess work by those of us observing as to which of those 3 areas are at fault, for what percentages of the faults and, even then, there could be further faults in the transmission of the analysis to the training ground or the transmission of the purpose of training ground exercises to the players, so that gives you two more gaps to look at. We are up to 5 areas of potential blame before you consider the individuals involved and their respective egos and communication skills, which brings us up to around 30 factors.
All we see is that its not working. What CBN and the irascible Juco give us is raw data. It is both useful and valuable and I wouldn’t be without it, but its only the start of the process. Somebody has to take those identified faults and fix them. It’s not as simple as tightening a loose screw in an engine because these loose screws have minds of their own and can loosen or tighten themselves depending on their mood, motivation and money.
Point of example. Most of us have decried our poor success at throw ins and dead ball situations. We lose the ball regularly and gain little from them, it seems. We can all see that with our own eyes but what CBN adds to the picture is whether our trouble in these areas are specific to us or a trend shared by all other clubs. We don’t think we score enough from corners but then CBN lets you know that very few clubs score regularly from corners and we are not specifically poor in this era; it’s just that all clubs are getting better at preventing damage from corners. Well drilled Zonal marking has been the prime element in reducing the efficacy of corners as a strong advantage to attacking teams. Nowadays many breakaway goals are scored from them.
Similarly, with throw ins. When opposition clubs contest these , it’s very difficult to build anything from them. Like kick outs from goal they become prime opportunities for the opposition to win the ball back because you can crowd the small space which forms the limit of the throwing in player’s arm strength. Again we are not alone in this, a throw in no longer has great value as an outcome. A successful transition from a throw in nowadays is winning the first touch and getting the ball out of that contested area quickly, most often, via a long pass back to your keeper or deep lying CB.
I know we have a good Sports Science Department at CP. I know that they are served by leaders in the field prepared and sourced by very modern analytics and led by universities. I have had the privilege of a backstairs tour by a Uni professor who set this up a lomg time ago.
So, I very much doubt there is an absence of data or that nobody is aware of or interested in the weight of Griffiths and Ajeti or their ability to last 90 minutes or recover from injury.
I also doubt that Neil Lennon or John Kennedy have no idea of how to structure training drills to try to increase the effectiveness of corners or to increase ball retention at throw-ins. But, in the end, it”s competitive sport and the opposition is studying the same areas and working out how to prevent your “fix” from being effective. We could easily improve our ball retention at throw ins by employing 10 fat-arsed outfield players with Dalglish like ball protection skills and build, but then we’d have a team of chunky arsed, one paced, skilled attacking midfielders, not ideal for defensive headers, nippy wing play or fast counter attacks.
There is no doubt we are playing poorly and while we are playing poorly, our stats will look bad. No offence to CBN or Juco but unless they can structure training sessions better than our current coaches, then the analysis is just so much impractical data gathering.
I played a sport where the lazy analysis used by most players was that the attack failed because the first pass wasn’t very good. It was next to useless to me as a coach, because I could not do a lot to make it better during the match. If it was nerves, I could try and calm them down. If ut was team formation, I could tinker with the line up to take the weakest passer out of the passing reception. But, if it was down to the quality of the serving by the opposition, then all I could do was try to go back to the training ground and drill and drill that aspect of play but you can never recreate that mix of tension and form that occurs in a competitive match, during a training session. And players get bored with repetitive drills and attention wanders.
That is why I do not believe it is “dinosaur” like to have good man management in your armoury. A textbook modern coach cannot easily handle a hard nut been-there seen-it-all type like Roy Keane or a genius man-child like Gascoine just by analysis and training.
We have tended to make binary a very complex thing- form, training and playing in a fluid open game like football.
I bow to no-one in my respect for the evidence that the stats show us.
But I give them their fullest respect by understanding that, alone they are just numbers without a skilled coach who can turn them next week into better numbers.
Take away Roberts’ time at Celtic (hard, I know as we’re discussing taking him on at Celtic) and look at the rest of his career.
Is this a man who will save our season? We’ve talked on here about our poor recruitment. If signing a guy who can’t get into the Middlesboro team is top of our wanted list, we need to seriously reassess our scouting department.
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 12:24 PM
To be fair, the decision to sack Bilic was taken before the Manchester City game. Just as one poor result shouldn’t change someone’s thinking, nor should one good result.
JF – thank you for articulating perfectly what I was about to try to say myself.
Not sure why suddenly a few guys on here are mentioning Roberts. Perhaps I missed the rumour?
One out-and-out winger in any given team is a wonderful thing to see. Two? Rarer than a handsome hun.
Let’s give MJ the chance to re-establish himself. He is ours, he is fit again and he is, according to his team mates, the most skillful player in our squad.
If we need width on the right side of the park, Frimpong can provide it. Otherwise MJ is given the free role of switching from side to side.
Geebee
The decision to sack Bilic was made when he criticised the owners for selling Hagazi, an owner looking to sell and get out of the club.
They were hoping to time the sacking on the back of a huge defeat at the Etihad. I am glad Bilic went out after being able to disappoint them.
I like the way the guy talks about football
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 3:28 PM
Oh, don’t get me wrong I’m not saying he deserved the sack – just taking up your comment that he was sacked for only drawing with City.
Not sure what to make of him as a manager to be fair. Comes across as likable in his interviews but his record is very patchy. I feel less sympathetic when I think back to his dying swan act for Croatia in the WC ’98 Semi-Final :)
James Forrest
Imagine he did come in, and got into the team straight away? The questions that would raise as to why he can come from another club where he’s barely kicked a ball, and be ahead of our own squad players, in his levels of fitness, would be hard for Lennon and our coaching staff to escape. Too few people are pressing Lennon on that question;
Maybe, that is because it isn’t a question in reality.
It’s an imagined situation, constructed via your imagination.
The belief that Roberts would have superior fitness to our players is your imagined construct; no wonder we are not asking questions about it. Neil ahs brought players from other clubs- Shane Duffy is no prime example of Graham Potter’s superiority though Laxalt is ( of Pioli’s)
You cannot imagine your own facts and let thme be used in a QED formula.
Otherwise I could say – “You all think I’m an ugly bloke but if I got married to Claudia Schiffer, you’ld all change your tune.”
Now, I need to get back to wooing German Supermodels- I might get juco james to give me some advice and analysis on where i’m failing.
TURKEYBHOY- yes I would have tried to sign him in the summer,linked with project wingers from Charlton, Bristol City ,Paddy knows what he Club is all about.
GB- Alan Thompson and Scott Sinclair couldn’t get a game for Aston Villa, loads of examples, sometimes a player clicks with a certain Club, Paddy possibly with Celtic. HH
Ten in a row gets parked for 24 hours on Sunday. Really looking forward to this.
I hope it doesn’t sound defeatist but for me, a quad treble is a bigger achievement than 10IAR.
Three teams and two clubs have been on the cusp of ten – no team ever has come close to a quadruple treble.
SFTB – “There’s many a slip between analysis (backroom staff) , implementation (training ground coaches) and execution (on-field implementation by players).”
Indeed there is. The good outfits work hard to ensure there isn’t though. Rodgers worked hard to ensure we didn’t. What seems to be the case now (and adding recruitment) is the incoherence between recruitment (who?), analysis (rumoured to be Kennedy and not Lennon), training (is that Strachan but not Lennon) and execution (last minute rallying cry by Lennon then an essential pointing and staring tactic by Brown).
Schisms, fractures, can’t be arsed learning, emotion-led decision-making?. All in the melting pot before we get judged on the vagaries of a football match. I’d say our dysfunctional setup doesn’t give the players a chance at times at the end of that continuum.
HH
POR CIERTO on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 2:09 PM
BIG WAVY on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 1:48 PM
“Anybody genuinely “Up for the Cup” ?
I’m gonna be honest. I’m struggling.”
Surely that post epitomises what a lot of Celtic fans are suffering from at this time in our history, amnesia. How quickly we forget the 90’s and pre 65, por cierto
—
My search for a kinder world continues….
HH
!!BADA BING!! on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 3:41 PM
That’s three clubs that Roberts hasn’t clicked with now though – not just a case of failing with one.
At what point do we admit that he’s not very good and hasn’t developed in the way we thought or that City hoped?
Do we have scouts beyond these shores? Are there players better than Roberts out there?
If I was a dictator- I’d ban all mention of Paddy Roberts and Fraser Forster during the month of January…
GEEBEE1978 on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 3:49 PM
!!BADA BING!! on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 3:41 PM
That’s three clubs that Roberts hasn’t clicked with now though – not just a case of failing with one.
At what point do we admit that he’s not very good
So,he wasn’t a good player at Celtic?
!!BADA BING!! on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 3:55 PM
He was pretty good at Celtic, yes but he clearly hasn’t kicked on. It happens.
If we’re still sniffing around Roberts, I’d really question what our scouts are getting paid for – and it’d be yet another loan.
AN DÚN on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 3:53 PM
If I was a dictator- I’d ban all mention of Paddy Roberts and Fraser Forster during the month of January…
—
What’s Willo Flood up to? :)
AN DÚN on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 3:53 PM
If I was a dictator- I’d ban all mention of Paddy Roberts and Fraser Forster during the month of January…
I wish you were a dictator.
Bhoys I agree,sometimes going over old ground can be a bore…
We’re a`Cup team, and we’re a Cup Support………..imo, …….
……..we go into every game with scoddland wantin’ us pumped – more so in Cup games, the hunned-up meeja can’t help themsels…………..
UpFurraCup CSC
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!!BADA BING!! on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 4:07 PM
Bhoys I agree,sometimes going over old ground can be a bore…
———————————————————————————–
True. Are we too late for the poppy debate? :)
I thin k a wee bit more than the ithers, we miss the roar of genuinely passionate Tims roaring us forward and gettin’ the oul’ dander up…………….
Every ither team know that thull be heroes in scoddland should they blacken the eye of the Tim team.
Bada
Alan Thompson played 25 games and 21 games in each of the 2 seasons he was with Villa. Scott Sinclair played 27 times in his full season with them.
In contrast
Paddy played 12 times for us (7 as sub) in his final season, 19 times for Girona (13 as a sub), 3 times for Norwich (all as a sub) and 12 times for Boro (6 as a sub). He has started 17 games in 3 and a half years
In the past 3 and a half seasons he has scored 2 goals and one of them was for us in 2017
GENE on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 2:02 PM
Didn’t we lose 5 to Dunfermline after the 65 final
*we did it was the game postponed from the Saturday which was played on the Wednesday night, there was a League fixture list the day of the final.
Jock pushed to get that changed after watching the Pars beat the calvinists 3 years later, he walked out of hunden with his arms raised in the air after hearing that mathematically we had made it 3 in a row as deidco lost their unbeaten record at home tae the sheep.
I believe that was the last day there was a fixture clash as he at the time said fitba supporters should be at the Cup final and no a League game.
Incidentally on the 2 games prior tae the ’65 Final we lost 2-6 at Brockville and 1-2 at Parkheid against the harry wraggs.
2 days after the gubbin at East End Park we beat deidco at Parkheid 2-1 in a Glasgow Cup game where hun goalie martin broke a finger saving a Yogi shot.
Our season finally ended with wins over the bully wee and spiders 3-0 and 5-0 to retain the GC and give Jock 2 trophies in just over a fortnight.
However, cup wins notwithstanding, his record was not that great, after winning 6-0 at broomfield in his first game in charge, we lost 5 games, drawing 3 on the run up tae the spiders game, conceding 26 goals and scoring 31
So our concerns were in defense and not up front yet Jock’s first and only signing as far as I can remember that summer was Joe McGoals who had given Big Billy a roasting in the semi first game.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I now often wonder what would have happened if we had lost that April day to eventual 3rd place Pars who were only 1 point behind the templars and calvinists with a much superior GA.
Heard a rumour Ivan Toney thinks Patrick Roberts is a great player.
Maybe we should sign him (Roberts).
SFTB . 3.20
Thanks for the reply .
I actually agree with most of your well put points, and thanks for confirming the high standards of analysis that exists at Lennoxtown.
The point about translating the data on to the training ground then into a match situation is valid. I agree that it also presents the biggest challenges.
There’s still elements ( defensive positional discipline , the lack of forward passes , interceptions etc ) of our play that aren’t affected by a well drilled opposition that show up in stats .
I still think our recent improvement could have been implemented earlier by changes in personnel.
That’s not hindsight. Just pure frustration at our manager being reluctant to introduce fresh faces .
Whether he has the ability to fill the chasms between the various layers from data to a Saturday afternoon is up for debate.
Personal opinions will dictate that one . The guys that make that decision , obviously have a tad more faith than myself.
I just wish he had some fat arsed Kenny Dalgleish’s to choose from. HH
GREENPINATA on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 12:57 PM
The record attendance of 147, 365 against the sheep in 1937 is even more remarkable as our average attendance that season was only 14, 737.
*my da was only 13 then so highly unlikely he was at that game but I have older acquaintances who were, just over 2 years later they were up in Inverness and Perth respectively in training tae face the fascists, puts it a bit more in perspective.
Anyway what I have heard from them was the crowd was a way bit bigger than recorded as there were as many outside as inside hunden that day and plenty of them managed tae sneak in, the crowd estimate is over 150,000.
While we complain constantly about selling players, tae pay for “bonus thief’s” and DD’s dividends, our hero that day, assist for the 1st goal and scored the winner, Willie Buchan was against his wishes sold for a Scottish record fee tae Blackpool that summer.
Willie it has been recorded was a player ahead of his time and seemingly Willie Maley raced tae Bo’ness tae sign him as deidco were sniffing around.
Again we were fortunate in having Malky MacDonald as his replacement
Ironically we were offered his services as a guest player during WWII but only played him for one game; he actually guested for several clubs including manure.
So was the great Wullie Maley, the mhan who tried tae sell James Edward behind his back and hunted Tommy McInally twice, a bonus thief tae.
SFTB- thanks for looking up the stats 👍
Paddy Roberts.
I’d rather have Martin Boyle
St Tams
great shout. I’d love us to have Boyle and Gallacher from Motherwell
NEUSTADT-BRAW on 16TH DECEMBER 2020 12:12 PM
Good to see you postin
Hope things are well.
Stock up on the old Perlinbacher…merry xmas thing.
HH
id rather have susan boyle
lost one of our boxers id love to get one for christmas but not having much joy.. know what i mean arry
What a legend !
https://twitter.com/Tirnaog10/status/1338745212995317760?s=01
MNCelt
Also applies to McGinn (wages).
HH
When there’s nowhere else to run
Is there room for one more son?
One more son
If you can hold on
If you can hold on, hold on
mon the glasgow celtic
me dad always called celtic, glasgow celtic – he had a silent reverance for belfast celtic and would go silent if he heard of them muttering ‘that shower’ his euphemism for the hun!